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[Teproc]

By the way : I'm surprised nobody brough up the ADK/DD twinclaim when discussing the NK. I thought it was a risky choice as a kill for that reason, but maybe people just forgot about it ?

[Witherweaver]

By the way : I'm surprised nobody brough up the ADK/DD twinclaim when discussing the NK. I thought it was a risky choice as a kill for that reason, but maybe people just forgot about it ?

Twinclaim?

[Teproc]

By the way : I'm surprised nobody brough up the ADK/DD twinclaim when discussing the NK. I thought it was a risky choice as a kill for that reason, but maybe people just forgot about it ?

Twinclaim?

The fact that they know each other IRL. Twinclaim is referring to the first occurence of this in f.ds mafia, which was in mafia IV I believe : jotheonah and Glooble were both playing, and during day 2 they revealed that they were... twin brothers !

True story.

[Witherweaver]

By the way : I'm surprised nobody brough up the ADK/DD twinclaim when discussing the NK. I thought it was a risky choice as a kill for that reason, but maybe people just forgot about it ?

Twinclaim?

The fact that they know each other IRL. Twinclaim is referring to the first occurence of this in f.ds mafia, which was in mafia IV I believe : jotheonah and Glooble were both playing, and during day 2 they revealed that they were... twin brothers !

True story.

Ohh.. But what does that imply about the nightkill?  Because DD might pick up something on real-life interactions with ADK, so he's more of a threat?

[Teproc]

Presumably someone who knows you in real life will have an easier time reading you. I mean, it's not necessarily that strong an argument, but I was surprised it wasn't brought up at all.

[Witherweaver]

Presumably someone who knows you in real life will have an easier time reading you. I mean, it's not necessarily that strong an argument, but I was surprised it wasn't brought up at all.

I had forgotten.  Actually in most of my rereads I didn't pay a lot of attention to the RVS stage.  Probably not a good idea.

[theorel]

Let this be a lesson to the new players...town should NEVER lie!

[faust]

Let this be a lesson to the new players...town should NEVER lie!

I don't think shraeye ever explicitly stated that he was not the cop, so technically he didn't lie.

[mcmcsalot]

Presumably someone who knows you in real life will have an easier time reading you. I mean, it's not necessarily that strong an argument, but I was surprised it wasn't brought up at all.

Yea because robz and I can read eachother super well...

I think the only reason it is brought up is because you will act slightly different toward your sibling than you will toward a random online stranger. So people were picking up on the fact that glooble and Joth had some strange relationship and thought it meant they were scum partners, so now two claims make it known right away.

[Witherweaver]

Let this be a lesson to the new players...town should NEVER lie!

I don't think shraeye ever explicitly stated that he was not the cop, so technically he didn't lie.

I tried to get him to state that.  But he didn't.  Once he asked you "Is it you or ADK?" I took at as him claiming he was not.

[theorel]

whoa.  just saw that ADK claimed cop.  Well that should solve things.  Without a counterclaim, it's got to be Nik/faust then.  Perfect.

Voltaire, I have no idea why you will not look at Nik.  Check out the things I've posted this morning.  Nik is really really really suspicious.  Faust is also suspicious, but there are occasional saving graces.  I see no saving graces for Nik.  I mean, either one is a win.  So whatevs.

vote: Nik

Implicit claim of not cop "Without a counterclaim..."

Are Faust and Shraeye not going to claim now? 

What do you mean by this?  I thought we both did.

Explicit statement that he believed he and faust both claimed.  This means his implicit claim is in fact a claim, otherwise he would not be under this impression that he had already claimed.  Regardless this is 100% false.  He did NOT think that he had claimed, since he KNEW that he hadn't.

So, I'll say again, town should NOT lie.
Additionally, waiting to counter-claim until lylo is absolutely horrible play.  At lylo town has 1 chance to get it right.  If they're wrong they lose.  shraeye had already forfeited his trustworthiness by lying (see above), so IMO town should choose to believe adk in that situation, 100% of the time.

[shraeye]

By the way : I'm surprised nobody brough up the ADK/DD twinclaim when discussing the NK. I thought it was a risky choice as a kill for that reason, but maybe people just forgot about it ?

Twinclaim?

I did bring it up.

[shraeye]

From spec-thread yuma:
"the only way shraeye's way is superior is if you hit mafia yesterday. Then sure, town is in an incredibly awesome situation. But that wasn't going to happen with Nik--the lynch that he bulldozed through--and away from his partner faust."

Exactly.  It is brilliant if I hit scum.  And I ALWAYS assume I'm able to hit scum.  Hubris ain't hubris unless it brings you down into the depths of despair from time to time. 

[Witherweaver]

From spec-thread yuma:
"the only way shraeye's way is superior is if you hit mafia yesterday. Then sure, town is in an incredibly awesome situation. But that wasn't going to happen with Nik--the lynch that he bulldozed through--and away from his partner faust."

Exactly.  It is brilliant if I hit scum.  And I ALWAYS assume I'm able to hit scum.  Hubris ain't hubris unless it brings you down into the depths of despair from time to time. 

Why didn't you go with me on Faust?  He was so scum

[sudgy]

I think this newbie game was a lot better than the last two.  NMIV was way too lurky, and NMIII...

[shraeye]

I was fairly town between faust/Nik on that day2 lynch.  I was real sad to miss the scum-lynch.

On the final day I was definitely behind a faust-lynch.  I investigated Volt and knew he was town.  So it was faust, or on a crazy-off-chance, it was you as ADK's partner.  I didn't expect Volt to blow up so much regarding my play.

I knew I had you convinced (which was maybe an act if you were scum).  And I totally agreed with faust's reasoning regarding claims yesterday, so figured I had him convinced (which would also be an act if he were scum).  So as long as Volt knows that I'm just crazy enough to do this...then I should have been safe to give time to explore between a faust/wither lynch.

Hindsight is great, but if you/me had just voted for faust, where I was leaning....then Volt wouldn't have been so convinced that I was faust's partner.  And possibly listened harder to my arguments on ADK.  Of course, if we're using hindsight, I could have always counterclaimed ADK on time 

[Witherweaver]

I was fairly town between faust/Nik on that day2 lynch.  I was real sad to miss the scum-lynch.

On the final day I was definitely behind a faust-lynch.  I investigated Volt and knew he was town.  So it was faust, or on a crazy-off-chance, it was you as ADK's partner.  I didn't expect Volt to blow up so much regarding my play.

I knew I had you convinced (which was maybe an act if you were scum).  And I totally agreed with faust's reasoning regarding claims yesterday, so figured I had him convinced (which would also be an act if he were scum).  So as long as Volt knows that I'm just crazy enough to do this...then I should have been safe to give time to explore between a faust/wither lynch.

Hindsight is great, but if you/me had just voted for faust, where I was leaning....then Volt wouldn't have been so convinced that I was faust's partner.  And possibly listened harder to my arguments on ADK.  Of course, if we're using hindsight, I could have always counterclaimed ADK on time 

I think we hit an unlucky point on Day 2 close to lynch.  I had my vote on Faust, and you had even voted for him at some point, and Ichi would have voted too.  But both Voltaire and Nik were gone, so they couldn't vote against Faust. And I'm sure Volt would have steered the conversation away from Nik, and I had a much stronger scumread on Faust than on you, so I think we would have had him definitely. But with three votes and ADK not going to vote for Faust, we were in a situation in that last hour where we had to lynch Nik or get a no-lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Well also.. if we have 3 votes against Faust and ADK is refusing to hammer, then it makes the ADK/Faust team a lot more likely.

I knew I had you convinced (which was maybe an act if you were scum).  And I totally agreed with faust's reasoning regarding claims yesterday, so figured I had him convinced (which would also be an act if he were scum).  So as long as Volt knows that I'm just crazy enough to do this...then I should have been safe to give time to explore between a faust/wither lynch.

Had me convinced of which part?  I wasn't convinced that you weren't scum, but I was so sure Faust was by Day 3.  So I figured get rid of Faust and sort out the ADK/Shraeye thing tomorrow.

You shouldn't have told me to unvote Faust

[shraeye]

Had you convinced, in that I didn't expect you to hammer me or vote me.  I guess you did though...

[shraeye]

Although, with my info of Volt town, it's obvious that you voting for faust won't lead to a scum-quickhammer scneario.

But I really wanted to keep that info to myself, and let potential-scum faust sweat bullets trying to see if I'm onto him, or not.

[Witherweaver]

The frustrating thing was that your explanation of events was just so much better than ADK's.  I had a real hard time buying his voting for Shraeye instead of Volt. 

But this was the one problem I had with your explanation, and what made me ultimately vote for you:

So I posted this before:

The thing is is that I don't believe lying yesterday was the right move.  Let's say Shraeye really is the cop.  Then if he claims, ADK is for sure getting lynched, as we were surely going to choose him over Shraeye.  So we enter today as 4-1 instead of 3-2.  Yes Shraeye is probably dead, but we still have Ichi.  So this scenario is:

WW, Volt, Nik, Faust, Ichi (doctor).

Only one scum here, and we're voting Faust like 100% (even if wrong, that was going to happen).  Even if we're wrong, we enter tomorrow 2 town 1 scum (assuming they kill Ichi).  This still seems a better chance of success than cop!Shraeye convincing everyone today that ADK is lying.

So from cop!Shraeye's perspective, it's only the right move if he thinks he chance of convincing everyone to understand why he lied yesterday is better than the chance that Faust is scum.  Because lynch ADK yesterday (100% happening), lynch Faust today (99.9999% happening) is win.

Which means cop!Shraeye needs to have a significant amount of doubt of Faust's scumminess.

BUT Shraeye's self-admitted scum read was Nik and Faust.  He said himself he'd be up for lynching either yesterday.

I expected you to have the same outlook on how things would go that I did.  I was pretty sure that Faust was going to get voted against eventually.  So your explanation only made sense as town if you really didn't think Faust was going to get picked in any of the subsequent days---and lynching ADK would have given us two shots to get Faust.  So I concluded this didn't hold since you yourself admitted Faust was the other scum candidate on Day 2.

Ironically enough, I found your argument against ADK to be reasonable.  I was so surprised when he came out ((a) alive, (b) throwing the vote, and (c) so quickly).   I was constantly refreshing the forums until the thread was unlocked as well.  I had hit reply and was ready to type Vote: Faust (I didn't even think about the accounting possibility of scumhammer to win).  I expected to be the first person posting.  And then ADK beat me to it.

[shraeye]

yeah, you were convinced of faust.  And I was just leaning faust.

[Witherweaver]

yeah, you were convinced of faust.  And I was just leaning faust.

But I think on the last day you should have known Faust to very high certainty.  The only other option was me being scum, and I think that had to be really, really unlikely from your perspective, given this is my very first day.

[Witherweaver]

First game I mean.

[Voltaire]

Exactly.  It is brilliant if I hit scum.  And I ALWAYS assume I'm able to hit scum.  Hubris ain't hubris unless it brings you down into the depths of despair from time to time. 

 

I do want to say, I hope this was a great game for all the newbies, I had fun playing, please sign up for more games, and thanks to Teproc for modding!