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[Witherweaver]

Also, can someone unvote shraeye? We don't want a scum quickhammer here...

I would love it if scum outed themselves!

I could believe that scum!ADK could see himself as the only viable alternative to shraeye and thus quickhammer hoping to hit the Cop or something like that. Better to lynch ADK right away.

Of course, the hypothetical where it's scum ADK and scum Shraeye would mean ADK couldn't justify an unannounced hammer.  He could argue "why would I hammer my own partner," but he wouldn't be able to justify doing it without warning.

At any rate, Shraeye isn't my top lynch (though certainly not out of suspicion), and I would prefer not to rush this day, especially since we haven't had full participation.  We have until.. Tuesday?  So let's at least wait until tomorrow to start putting people at L-1?

Remember that we also need some time for potential claims.

Wait, do you want claims to happen?  You said yourself that VT is the worst thing to claim (and the most likely), and the only other choice is claiming cop.  Are you saying you want the cop to claim?

[Voltaire]

Wait, do you want claims to happen?  You said yourself that VT is the worst thing to claim (and the most likely), and the only other choice is claiming cop.  Are you saying you want the cop to claim?

He means of the player we are going to lynch. If we are going to lynch the cop, of course we want the cop to claim!

Nobody other than the person at L-1 with intent to hammer should claim.

[Voltaire]

I want faust to refresh the don't-lynch-shraeye today case, I want to see if shraeye has anything to say, and then I'll vote again.

[Witherweaver]

Wait, do you want claims to happen?  You said yourself that VT is the worst thing to claim (and the most likely), and the only other choice is claiming cop.  Are you saying you want the cop to claim?

He means of the player we are going to lynch. If we are going to lynch the cop, of course we want the cop to claim!

Nobody other than the person at L-1 with intent to hammer should claim.

I know that's what he meant, but.. if scum things they're pretty much guaranteed to get lynched, and claiming VT won't help (which it probably won't), then they could claim cop to draw the real cop out.  Then at night cop dies.  Well I guess we're still in a good spot since we lynched correctly, but we did lose our cop.

If we have the real cop at L-1, then claiming kills him tonight, and we get a better chance to get the correct lynch today.  That's good if scum really is a subset of {Faust, Shraeye, ADK}, bad if not.

[Witherweaver]

*Thinks

[Voltaire]

Wait, do you want claims to happen?  You said yourself that VT is the worst thing to claim (and the most likely), and the only other choice is claiming cop.  Are you saying you want the cop to claim?

He means of the player we are going to lynch. If we are going to lynch the cop, of course we want the cop to claim!

Nobody other than the person at L-1 with intent to hammer should claim.

I know that's what he meant, but.. if scum things they're pretty much guaranteed to get lynched, and claiming VT won't help (which it probably won't), then they could claim cop to draw the real cop out.  Then at night cop dies.  Well I guess we're still in a good spot since we lynched correctly, but we did lose our cop.

If we have the real cop at L-1, then claiming kills him tonight, and we get a better chance to get the correct lynch today.  That's good if scum really is a subset of {Faust, Shraeye, ADK}, bad if not.

We have to have a claim, though, because otherwise we could lynch him and gain nothing!

Yes, if scum claims cop to draw out the real cop (which now that I think about it they obviously will, you're right) then I guess it's an oh-well situation. I mean, the cop could try hammering the scum player super-quickly before anyone unvotes, an (ordinarily) scummy action, but that would likely just out them as the cop to the remaining scum so they'll draw the NK anyway.

So I guess actually maybe I'm open to no claims. Maybe.

[Voltaire]

We have to have a claim, though, because otherwise we could lynch him and gain nothing!

But really, this.

[Witherweaver]

Well if it's agreed that claiming should happen (Ichi chime in?) then we should get that process going soonish.

[Voltaire]

Well if it's agreed that claiming should happen (Ichi chime in?) then we should get that process going soonish.

No, only when we have someone at L-1 with intent to hammer! Which we do not! But I agree, we do need to do that today so we have time.

[Witherweaver]

Well if it's agreed that claiming should happen (Ichi chime in?) then we should get that process going soonish.

No, only when we have someone at L-1 with intent to hammer! Which we do not! But I agree, we do need to do that today so we have time.

Ichi said his vote is considered to be on ADK, so ADK is basically L-1.  So we only need one more intention to be at intent to hammer.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well if it's agreed that claiming should happen (Ichi chime in?) then we should get that process going soonish.

Well this is an interesting development. I must say I do think scum would fake claim to out the cop. So unless the person we lynch today is a VT then they'll claim cop.
So, what exactly is being advocated?
A mass claim?
If so, I can see some logic behind it, but want to consider it a little more first.

[Witherweaver]

Well if it's agreed that claiming should happen (Ichi chime in?) then we should get that process going soonish.

Well this is an interesting development. I must say I do think scum would fake claim to out the cop. So unless the person we lynch today is a VT then they'll claim cop.
So, what exactly is being advocated?
A mass claim?
If so, I can see some logic behind it, but want to consider it a little more first.

Not a mass claim, just a claim by the lynch candidate.  I was a little confused by Faust advocating it after how he responded to McMc's claim.

[Voltaire]

If we mass claim, we are guaranteeing the cop dies tonight.

If we don't mass claim, the cop (probably) gets outed anyway, and dies.

If we are going to lynch town today, odds are they will be a VT. We need to lynch them anyway (WIFOM).

If we are going to lynch scum today, they'll probably claim cop. If we say we won't lynch VTs, though, they'll claim that (see above).

If we are going to lynch town today, and it's the cop, we obviously lynch someone else (shit, scum claims to be the cop to get us to lynch the real cop fuck fuck fuck how do I not think these things through? Yes, entire speccy thread, enjoy the laugh).

So basically we have a 50/50 chance on this lynch no matter what. It depends on who claims what when and what we think about it.

[Voltaire]

But no then scum is outed tomorrow. In all the scenarios where the cop claims, we've caught scum. Right? Which is the point of a cop in the first place so it's fine. Right?

[Ichimaru Gin]

If we mass claim, we are guaranteeing the cop dies tonight.

If we don't mass claim, the cop (probably) gets outed anyway, and dies.

If we are going to lynch town today, odds are they will be a VT. We need to lynch them anyway (WIFOM).

If we are going to lynch scum today, they'll probably claim cop. If we say we won't lynch VTs, though, they'll claim that (see above).

If we are going to lynch town today, and it's the cop, we obviously lynch someone else (shit, scum claims to be the cop to get us to lynch the real cop fuck fuck fuck how do I not think these things through? Yes, entire speccy thread, enjoy the laugh).

So basically we have a 50/50 chance on this lynch no matter what. It depends on who claims what when and what we think about it.

Hmm. That is a really hard dilemma.

We know that both scum can't claim cop, so one of them will have to claim VT.

PPE: That is true. So they out the cop by fakeclaiming, kill him tonight (if we don't be accident), at any rate we know who one of them is tomorrow.

[Voltaire]

I mean, we have to remember, "boo hoo the cop is dead" is A-OK if it caught scum, since that's the point of the cop anyway.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I mean, we have to remember, "boo hoo the cop is dead" is A-OK if it caught scum, since that's the point of the cop anyway.

And we'd still have a guaranteed IC tomorrow, along with a reduced lynch pool and knowing who one scum is. So maybe massclaim is the way to go.

[Voltaire]

I can go either way on this. As IC, you need to make that call, and soon. I lean towards no (only the lynch claims).

We need to do this today btw to have time for any changes before deadline.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I can go either way on this. As IC, you need to make that call, and soon. I lean towards no (only the lynch claims).

We need to do this today btw to have time for any changes before deadline.

Well I guess if it's technically a zero-sum for us, then it would be for scum as well. They are going to get one person outed for sure if they fakeclaim and kill the cop.

Actually, it may be safer for scum in some ways to not fakeclaim. The cop could always just confirm another VT--which would be a little better for them I think. . .except, thinking about it. If we hit scum today, and they kill me tonight, tomorrow it would be 5 players: the cop, a confirmed VT, two scum, and an uncomfirmed VT. So slightly better for them since there is no confirmed scum. I don't exactly know. Let's not mass claim and then wait and see what happens. I feel like we still might be able to catch a scum fakeclaim even without having the real cop claim. And if they claim vt, or refuse to claim. . .that's fine.

[Voltaire]

ADK is my lynch of choice. I will also lynch shraeye. I don't want to lynch faust today. In no world will I vote for Nik or WW.

[Ichimaru Gin]

ADK is my lynch of choice. I will also lynch shraeye. I don't want to lynch faust today. In no world will I vote for Nik or WW.

I'm fine with that. I'm not going to vote for ADK yet, but I will be around all day to hammer/vote if needed after he claims.

[Witherweaver]

ADK is my lynch of choice. I will also lynch shraeye. I don't want to lynch faust today. In no world will I vote for Nik or WW.

This should be considered as intent to hammer, then, as ADK already has two votes + Ichi's intent of vote.

[Voltaire]

Then ADK should claim in his next post.

It was very difficult not to return to shraeye, but I still think he's scum. But ADK is the better lynch for today, because I think he's also scum and scum in more situations.

[shraeye]

Research meeting success.  However, dog got sick; spent 2 hours dealing with that.  It's bedtime now, and I'll check some stuff in the ultra-early-AM-hours tomorrow.

[Voltaire]

Research meeting success.  However, dog got sick; spent 2 hours dealing with that.  It's bedtime now, and I'll check some stuff in the ultra-early-AM-hours tomorrow.

Just so you know, ADK is at 2 votes with 2 intents to vote, so the current situation is, we want him to claim in his next post.