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[shraeye]

Ok. I'm town doctor.

AWESOME. Let's wait for counter-claims, but this makes me so happy. Turning a mislynch candidate into an IC. Best-case scenario. Yes.

This makes shraeye scummier.

I do not follow. Not one bit.  Explain.

[Voltaire]

Yay, shraeye is here!

Also, I never did this but that's fine because now we have IG to add.

Day One
mcmcsalot (5): shraeye, Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin, Nik, faust
Ichimaru Gin (2): Witherweaver, mcmcsalot
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Delirious Deleuze
Voltaire (1): A Drowned Kernel

(and this is how it looks like from my perspective, where orange means I am assuming the person is town but don't know for sure):

Day One
mcmcsalot (5): shraeye, Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin, Nik, faust
Ichimaru Gin (2): Witherweaver, mcmcsalot
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Delirious Deleuze
Voltaire (1): A Drowned Kernel

[Voltaire]

Ok. I'm town doctor.

AWESOME. Let's wait for counter-claims, but this makes me so happy. Turning a mislynch candidate into an IC. Best-case scenario. Yes.

This makes shraeye scummier.

I do not follow. Not one bit.  Explain.

1. IG was a likely mislynch candidate. Turns out he's the doc. That's awesome.
2. You started talking about how scummy IG would be if mcmc flipped town at the end of D1.

shraeye, what do you think about ichi?

Ichi's voting patterns vis-a-vis mcmc seem strange.  Definitely makes him worth looking at.

If what you said were the case that would leave. (random order)

Ichimaru Gin
Wandering Winder
Delerious Deleuze
Voltaire
Nik
faust

So who would my scum partner be? faust?
Also, I can understand if this is just an important to get your reads down now if you happen to get killed tonight (something I remember Shraeye talking about earlier).

I dislike defensive questions like "if I'm scum, who's my partner?"  It's not a valid defense, since scum are trying to appear unconnected to eachother. 

This post as well; for some reason I get wary when people's reads line up so much with mine. 


Ichi, can you tell me what you remember why you put faust high on your suspicion list in that last post?

I like that faust/Ichi are both happy with eachotehr's lynches.  And I'm not really sure what gives them that read.  faust justified his on Ichi a bit; ichi justified his on faust pretty badly I think.

In a reads list, Ichi shifts faust from null to scummy, when really there wasn't any indication in any of ichi's posts between those two reads-posts of reasons for that switch.

If mcmc is indeed town, we should look to faust/Ichi.

Ichi/faust are a pair worth looking into tomorrow if mcmc is town.

[Witherweaver]

I'm just going to go out and say that if scumteam turns out to be Voltaire/Nik, then I am seriously outclassed in this Mafia thing and they just pulled off a Walter-White-esque heist.

[Voltaire]

I'm just going to go out and say that if scumteam turns out to be Voltaire/Nik, then I am seriously outclassed in this Mafia thing and they just pulled off a Walter-White-esque heist.

I was trying to find some sort of reassuring Breaking Bad meme/quote to post, but since I'm not a fan the best I could do was this:



I also gotta say I find it strange that there have been a crazy number of people viewing this thread today with little input.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The possibility of a shraeye/faust team, or ww and a vet, are something that I'm going to have reread and look carefully for. But my primary stance is that Volt is far and away my biggest suspect.

Part of it might admittedly be my bias after playing the Super Mario Bros game with Ashersky. In that game I watched a very skilled scum player brazenly push mislynch after mislynch. And the hell of it was, the wagons were never started by him. He waited until two townies got into a fight, then jumped on and fed the flames, all while parading around the excuse that "scum would never be this obvious". To me that looks exactly like what happened on day one. Voltaire waited, not making many waves, until enough newbies had jumped on the mc wagon, then came out in support of it without much solid reasoning. Today, I see him strongly driving another mislynch, and one that's fairly easily, given that a number of people already thought I was scummy. There's a chance that he's town, but it's seeming increasingly unlikely to me. What scares me the most is Ichi stating that he intends to sheep whatever Volt votes, which isn't a good attitude for confirmed town to have. If we mislynch today, scum only needs one town to follow them tomorrow, so Ichi, if I'm not around then, promise we you won't just auto-vote on Volt's side.

As for defending other players, yes, that is something that I do, probably to my detriment. In Adventure Time, I got into a ton of trouble as a townie when a player I defended early on turned out to be scum. Early in the game, when there isn't much interaction to go off of, it's a lot easier for people to get roped into mislynches and for scum to gain control of the game's narrative.

What I've learned from my short experience from this game is that I need to lessen the influence other players have on me and trust my own reads. And right now, my reads are pointing to Voltaire. Is shraeye a scum candidate? Possibly, but the fight between him and mc seemed more townie on townie to me, and it looks to me more like Volt saw a mislynch and jumped in. shraeye could be his partner, which terrifies me a little, but it's starting to look like the most likely possibility. Otherwise it's faust or WW; faust has been absent, so signs might point to him, and WW I have a hard time reading.

[Voltaire]

As for defending other players, yes, that is something that I do, probably to my detriment. In Adventure Time, I got into a ton of trouble as a townie when a player I defended early on turned out to be scum. Early in the game, when there isn't much interaction to go off of, it's a lot easier for people to get roped into mislynches and for scum to gain control of the game's narrative.

So why do you defend those players?

[Voltaire]

Cool. So ADK opts to just go straight at me. It's an interesting choice, because taking out someone who seems to suspect him and his teammate would be his best-case scenario - but it's risky, as I think only Nik has also expressed suspicion of me.

If ADK is town, well...

Is shraeye a scum candidate? Possibly, but the fight between him and mc seemed more townie on townie to me, and it looks to me more like Volt saw a mislynch and jumped in. shraeye could be his partner, which terrifies me a little, but it's starting to look like the most likely possibility. Otherwise it's faust or WW; faust has been absent, so signs might point to him, and WW I have a hard time reading.

you're hedging like hell, and this is what I mean when I say it's super-frustrating when you, shraeye, and faust are all super-scummy.

But we do have two lynches left, and I'm 100% certain we can hit scum. We might even get cop results tomorrow, so...

...once I hear from shraeye and faust, I'm ready to vote.

[Ichimaru Gin]

In that game I watched a very skilled scum player brazenly push mislynch after mislynch. And the hell of it was, the wagons were never started by him. He waited until two townies got into a fight, then jumped on and fed the flames, all while parading around the excuse that "scum would never be this obvious".

This actually seems more like Shraeye to me.
Although I must admit, Volt being town isn't a foregone conclusion. There is definitely a part of me that is paranoid that he is scum--although I don't exactly have specific reasons.

What scares me the most is Ichi stating that he intends to sheep whatever Volt votes, which isn't a good attitude for confirmed town to have. If we mislynch today, scum only needs one town to follow them tomorrow, so Ichi, if I'm not around then, promise we you won't just auto-vote on Volt's side.

I must say I really do agree with this. Even though I may not be that experienced, I am the IC now. . .so actually should probably be more independent since I really only know that I'm not scum. So I didn't really think a lot when posting that. . . Yeah, I won't just auto-vote with Volt.

ADK actually makes some really good points here. I'd like to hear from faust, and more from Shraeye, but for now I'm feeling a little townier on him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Again, I'm worried about mislynches. After adventure time, where a quickly formed day one wagon turned out to indeed be on a scum, I've learned that that kind of thing isn't always bad, but I'm still antsy about it. I end up playing defensively, which I realize isn't the best way to play, but it's a reflex.

So should I not have defended mc? I mean I wasn't exactly screaming against lynch, but I definitely thought there were better ones, and if I had been more vocal and more certain in my cases, maybe we would've hit a better one. So obviously my play style is lacking here.

PPE: I don't see how I'm hedging like hell, I'm super confident that you're scum. I'm not certain who your partner is, and I think that's because they're sitting back and letting you do the dirty work.

PPE 2: Shraeye was the one who started the case on mc, admittedly on somewhat flimsy pretexts. But IMO, it's townier to start a case on someone, it's scummier to jump on one when you already know you have support.

[Voltaire]

Paranoia is a good and useful tool for town. You just can't let it reach a point where it prevents you from forming reads.

[Ichimaru Gin]

PPE 2: Shraeye was the one who started the case on mc, admittedly on somewhat flimsy pretexts. But IMO, it's townier to start a case on someone, it's scummier to jump on one when you already know you have support.

I was moreso focused on the similarities of just how sure Shraeye was on mcmc, e.g. "100% sure" and then the idea that "scum wouldn't be this blatant" was brought up. But I do see how starting the case is more townie. Still, if this is true, scum!Shraeye could have done everything that he did about mcmc and gotten away with it up until now even when mcmc flipped town. . .so that's interesting.

[shraeye]

Ok. I'm town doctor.

AWESOME. Let's wait for counter-claims, but this makes me so happy. Turning a mislynch candidate into an IC. Best-case scenario. Yes.

This makes shraeye scummier.

I do not follow. Not one bit.  Explain.

1. IG was a likely mislynch candidate. Turns out he's the doc. That's awesome.
2. You started talking about how scummy IG would be if mcmc flipped town at the end of D1.

So you're honestly saying that because I've stated suspicion on the person who ended up claiming Doc, that I'm scummier for it?  THAT would suppose that I knew he would claim doc before making my case.  That is nonsensical.

[Voltaire]

I'm saying you're scum setting up multiple mislynches on D1, and it didn't work because your next mislynch turned out to be the doc, something you could not have foreseen.

[Voltaire]

I really want answers to these.

It seems like Shraeye is being very aggressive and spreading confusion.  Maybe this is just his play style.. I'm not sure.  My read right now is scum.

He's asking a lot of questions and analyzing people's motivations, which I read as a more towny trait. shraeye's probably my strongest town read so far.

Why exactly do you think shraeye is town? Shraeye asks almost entirely questions as scum.

I don't have the same meta knowledge of him that you do so I won't know about that. I'm basing my town read on him off of his questions seeming pointed and insightful, though the thing with analyzing WW's post and "mc was just the first to post about it" does seem a little off.

ADK, can you point me to the D1 posts prior to this where shraeye is "pointed" and "insightful"? Especially if you think the WW post/mcmc thing was "a little off".

So I have no IDEA what. the. jack. you are talking about.  I am in no way more "in the moment" now than I was then.  You're just making a hack-job of pretending to have a reason for reads.  Scum. Found.

vote: mcmc

shraeye, what do you think of the mcmc wagon/interactions now that he's flipped town?

I need to read. I'd much rather lynch mcmc; i'm 100% positive of his scuminess.  He's been attacking me with nothing more than hot-button generic-scummy things that I'm not actually doing at all.  His position on me has jumped back and forth and also not been in line with any of the actual evidence.  He repeatedly refuses to defend or back up his statements that I've already pointed out are contradictory, instead resorting to ad hominem attacks and blatant AtE. 

His frustration could absolutely be legitimate.  No doubt.  But I'm sure that he is frustrated scum.  If we turn somewhere else and run up the doctor or the cop, we are screwing ourselves.  Hard.  There is no reason to do that in the face of such an overwhelming reason to lynch mcmc.

Shraeye deflects/is wishy-washy when I ask about ADK instead of mcmc.

So, shraeye, help me out. Convince me you're town.

[Voltaire]

Obviously numbers 2 and 3 are the ones for you to reply two. These three overall are what is pointing me to a shraeye/ADK team as most likely, though.

[Witherweaver]

Would scum ADK really want to accuse Voltaire?  So far Ichi and myself have basically been agreeing 100% with him, and even though Nik has voted against him, he's also just immediately gone alone with whatever Voltaire said.  ADK would have a really hard time getting everyone to turn on Volt.  Much easier to play a read against Shraeye who had a very aggressive argument against McMc or Faust who has been, like, omnilurk. 

Maybe he thinks that would be too obvious a play, or maybe he's just giving his honest reads.

[Voltaire]

That's possible, yes. That's what I mean when I say, someone prove they're town to me.

He might not want to go after shraeye if shraeye is his partner.

Whoever the two scum are, if they're truly 2 of the 3 I've identified, also need to face the fact that we have at least 2 chances left. If they get us to mislynch today, they still have to deal with the fact that (if they don't kill me at night) I'll still be alive and I'll almost certainly only vote for them tomorrow, and I've done a good job of convincing my fellow townies that my lynch pool is the right one. And the cop will come forward with his result, as long as he's not killed overnight.

So I actually feel better about the fact that ADK has come after me, and shraeye subtly (OMGUSing me). Because that's really what they have to do.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Volt: I was talking about here, where shraeye's real entrance into the game was a series of questions directed at myself and others questioning the reasoning behind certain comments and questions. That struck me as being townie, as getting people to explain themselves keeps them honest and is helpful for later rereads.

PPE: On the other hand, if you're scum, you've got everything lined up nicely for you. So that's nice for you, I guess.

[Voltaire]

Volt: I was talking about here, where shraeye's real entrance into the game was a series of questions directed at myself and others questioning the reasoning behind certain comments and questions. That struck me as being townie, as getting people to explain themselves keeps them honest and is helpful for later rereads.

Those were all at mcmc, which you found "a little off".

[Ichimaru Gin]

Would scum ADK really want to accuse Voltaire?  So far Ichi and myself have basically been agreeing 100% with him, and even though Nik has voted against him, he's also just immediately gone alone with whatever Voltaire said.  ADK would have a really hard time getting everyone to turn on Volt.  Much easier to play a read against Shraeye who had a very aggressive argument against McMc or Faust who has been, like, omnilurk. 

Maybe he thinks that would be too obvious a play, or maybe he's just giving his honest reads.

This.
I am just so torn because having Volt be town is just so. . .convenient--what with him being a vet and a really good town player. I'm an IC now, but am having a really hard time deciding who is town and who is scum.

For now, I feel really, really sure that ww is town. Nik, I'm not sure. It seems like he has a fair amount of interactions with Voltaire. ADK's last couple posts make me feel a little townier on him. Shraeye is more scummy to me, and faust hasn't posted at all. . .

I can't do jack tonight, but I think I want to get more of what I think since there's a good chance scum will kill me unless they feel like they've got a lock on the cop.

PPE: 3

[Voltaire]

IG, town is doing well. You are the IC. I'm town, and scum's only chance is to make you distrust me. Their only chance. Re-read me. I'm confident you'll see I'm town.

[Voltaire]

Or, better version of my most recent post, is my second-most recent post:

Whoever the two scum are, if they're truly 2 of the 3 I've identified, also need to face the fact that we have at least 2 chances left. If they get us to mislynch today, they still have to deal with the fact that (if they don't kill me at night) I'll still be alive and I'll almost certainly only vote for them tomorrow, and I've done a good job of convincing my fellow townies that my lynch pool is the right one. And the cop will come forward with his result, as long as he's not killed overnight.

So I actually feel better about the fact that ADK has come after me, and shraeye subtly (OMGUSing me). Because that's really what they have to do.

[Ichimaru Gin]

If mcmc is scum, then ADK deserves a good hard look.

i'm disapointed if that's true, you just had so many bad responses to everything i had.  Ichi/faust are a pair worth looking into tomorrow if mcmc is town.

if mcmc is scum and still trolling us, I think ADK is the place to look tomorrow.

If the scum-team is ADK/Shraeye, these are pretty interesting. You push a lynch on mcmc while all the while making vague either/or statements all to well knowing his flip. While at the same time setting up me and faust as mislynches for the next day. Hmm.

Has anyone considered a faust/Shraeye scumteam?

[Ichimaru Gin]

My partical re-read of Volt.

I think it would be a good cover to be extremely helpful to the new players.  It's going to be hard to want to lynch the guy who has been helping you out and showing you the ropes.

Completely agree with this.

No, they would say "I'm the Cop" or "I'm the Doctor". (the comparison to the role "Named Townie" is in that we'd simply care that they were the Doc or Cop, not necessarily about any results they have)

Imagine this scenario: We lynch scum today. A VT dies tonight. If the Cop and Doc decide to claim tomorrow, our lynch pool would be down to 4 from the VTs point-of-view (7 living players, 2 are our PRs, they know they themselves are town) instead of 7. Now, I don't think that's worth it. But, imagine that we then lynch a VT, and a VT dies N2. D3 dawns with 5 living players. Say our PRs claim then. Our lynch pool for the VTs goes from 4 to 2 - and the Cop has a N2 result to claim. Which, if it's a town result on one of the VTs, wins the game.

(so, you say, why won't scum counter-claim one of the PRs? Because even if they get us to lynch the real cop, they kill someone at night, we still have D4 with 3 alive, 1 scum, and the scum is obvious.)

So that's a situation where it makes sense for the Doctor and Cop to claim immediately (D3, no PRs have died). There might be others. There might not be. Just something for them to think about. The decision on when to claim or not claim should always be made in the best judgement of the PR themselves, because any advice from the town is prone to scum manipulation.

does no one think shaeye is scummy for how persistent in trying to get me lynched he is?

Yes and no. Yes because, well, it definitely seems that way.
No, because, well, why in the world would scum go all-in on a lynch like that?

This quote is interesting as it is similar to the case ADK is pushing on volt. And one that I unknowingly referenced just a few posts ago.