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Author Topic: What Card Am I?  (Read 128136 times)

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soulnet

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #300 on: December 24, 2014, 07:38:30 pm »
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That's wrong. BoM is already Ironworks so you have to play it as Ironworks the second time, independently of whether or not there are other cards costing 4 or less in the supply.
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SpinBlack

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #301 on: December 24, 2014, 07:52:21 pm »
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That's wrong. BoM is already Ironworks so you have to play it as Ironworks the second time, independently of whether or not there are other cards costing 4 or less in the supply.
And I'm saying that when you TR it as IW and gain the last IW, you can't play it as IW again because there is no IW for BoM to copy.

Basically, BoM is stuck trying to be IW again for its second play, but it can't and eventually gives up and goes home, per this rule:

Quote
Band of Misfits can only be played as a card that is visible in the Supply; it cannot be played as a card after its pile runs out

Unless you manipulate the Supply somehow, there is no Action card that can't be played multiple times with TR/KC. Whether you get anything meaningful out of doing so is another story.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 07:56:37 pm by SpinBlack »
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GeoLib

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #302 on: December 24, 2014, 08:06:10 pm »
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(3) You Thrown Room/King's Court me, you don't trash me, but you cannot actually play me more than once this turn (unless you have another one of me -- you could play that one).  What card am I?
Isn't this just Cultist?
Also, seeing thrown room being throne around in this thread is making my brain hurt.
No.

It's true that Cultist allows you to immediately play a Cultist before the TR/KC-Cultist finishes resolving due to the special stack effect. Whether or not you play another Cultist, you still replay the specific Cultist that was chosen for TR/KC afterwards, and you can even play another cultist after drawing cards from the second (or third in the case of KC) play of the Cultist, due to the stack effect.
Fine.

Band of Misfits as Ironworks, gaining the last Ironworks.
There are no more < $5 cards remaining in the Kingdom.
TR/KC fails to play the first BoM more than once because it fails to find an Ironworks in the Supply to copy.
You are still able to play another BoM though it does nothing to copy another card.

Nope. BoM has already copied ironworks so you can still play it. TR plays BoM as whatever you copied the first time without seeking to copy something the second time. It doesn't need another ironworks to copy. See the very confusing Procession-BoM-as-Fortress or the TR-BoM-as-Feast rulings for an explanation of this.
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SpinBlack

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #303 on: December 24, 2014, 08:16:42 pm »
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(3) You Thrown Room/King's Court me, you don't trash me, but you cannot actually play me more than once this turn (unless you have another one of me -- you could play that one).  What card am I?
Isn't this just Cultist?
Also, seeing thrown room being throne around in this thread is making my brain hurt.
No.

It's true that Cultist allows you to immediately play a Cultist before the TR/KC-Cultist finishes resolving due to the special stack effect. Whether or not you play another Cultist, you still replay the specific Cultist that was chosen for TR/KC afterwards, and you can even play another cultist after drawing cards from the second (or third in the case of KC) play of the Cultist, due to the stack effect.
Fine.

Band of Misfits as Ironworks, gaining the last Ironworks.
There are no more < $5 cards remaining in the Kingdom.
TR/KC fails to play the first BoM more than once because it fails to find an Ironworks in the Supply to copy.
You are still able to play another BoM though it does nothing to copy another card.

Nope. BoM has already copied ironworks so you can still play it. TR plays BoM as whatever you copied the first time without seeking to copy something the second time. It doesn't need another ironworks to copy. See the very confusing Procession-BoM-as-Fortress or the TR-BoM-as-Feast rulings for an explanation of this.
- Processing BoM as Fortress is irrelevant to this situation because the Fortress pile isn't going anywhere.
- As for TR BoM as Feast, I'm pretty sure there was no ruling about whether you could play it a second time after gaining the last Feast.

Also I like how everyone except the person who actually made this question is trying to tell me I'm wrong.
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GeoLib

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #304 on: December 24, 2014, 08:27:34 pm »
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(3) You Thrown Room/King's Court me, you don't trash me, but you cannot actually play me more than once this turn (unless you have another one of me -- you could play that one).  What card am I?
Isn't this just Cultist?
Also, seeing thrown room being throne around in this thread is making my brain hurt.
No.

It's true that Cultist allows you to immediately play a Cultist before the TR/KC-Cultist finishes resolving due to the special stack effect. Whether or not you play another Cultist, you still replay the specific Cultist that was chosen for TR/KC afterwards, and you can even play another cultist after drawing cards from the second (or third in the case of KC) play of the Cultist, due to the stack effect.
Fine.

Band of Misfits as Ironworks, gaining the last Ironworks.
There are no more < $5 cards remaining in the Kingdom.
TR/KC fails to play the first BoM more than once because it fails to find an Ironworks in the Supply to copy.
You are still able to play another BoM though it does nothing to copy another card.

Nope. BoM has already copied ironworks so you can still play it. TR plays BoM as whatever you copied the first time without seeking to copy something the second time. It doesn't need another ironworks to copy. See the very confusing Procession-BoM-as-Fortress or the TR-BoM-as-Feast rulings for an explanation of this.
- Processing BoM as Fortress is irrelevant to this situation because the Fortress pile isn't going anywhere.
- As for TR BoM as Feast, I'm pretty sure there was no ruling about whether you could play it a second time after gaining the last Feast.

Also I like how everyone except the person who actually made this question is trying to tell me I'm wrong.

Hey, there's no need to get defensive here. If you check out the rulings I mentioned you'll see that they address the way in which BoM copies things when played with TR/KC/Pr.  I don't have time right now to find the exact posts, but somewhere in here is I think where Donald clarified things. When played the first time you play it as a card and then TR/KC/Pr "latches on" to that card and plays it twice. It's a pretty weird ruling, but it is very much relevant here.

With regards to the author vs. other people refuting this solution, this is just a rules of dominion thing, and we've been around this forum long enough to hear the official (and rather confusing) ruling on BoM, so we're sharing it.
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #305 on: December 24, 2014, 08:38:35 pm »
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I already mentioned BoM as a non-answer:

For 3, I think you might mean Band of Misfits.  But that would be wrong.  Technically, you can never play BoM except when there is absolutely nothing in the supply for it to be.  It is the card you choose from the very first play.

The Ironworks thing was an interesting idea, but everybody else is right -- it is locked in as whatever was chosen for the first play.

As for the person who made the question, he's already given his intended answer, and it was incorrect. :P
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:39:48 pm by eHalcyon »
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SpinBlack

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #306 on: December 24, 2014, 08:53:16 pm »
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As for the person who made the question, he's already given his intended answer, and it was incorrect. :P
Oh. Sorry, I usually ignore black walls of spoiler text.

Either way, I quickly browsed through the BoM Q&A thread and there is no ruling on whether you can TR BoM as Feast if the first play gains the last Feast. Oh well.

With regards to the author vs. other people refuting this solution, this is just a rules of dominion thing, and we've been around this forum long enough to hear the official (and rather confusing) ruling on BoM, so we're sharing it.
I've been here longer than you think.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:54:37 pm by SpinBlack »
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eHalcyon

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #307 on: December 24, 2014, 10:53:31 pm »
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The ruling is that you choose for the initial play, and then it is locked in. The presence of the card in the supply only matters for the very first play.
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Donald X.

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #308 on: December 24, 2014, 11:48:15 pm »
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I've been here longer than you think.
quoted for ban
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Donald X.

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #309 on: December 24, 2014, 11:59:33 pm »
+2

Here's the thread where the Throne Room / Band of Misfits / Feast ruling got hashed out: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4083.0
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GeoLib

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #310 on: December 25, 2014, 01:26:40 am »
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Either way, I quickly browsed through the BoM Q&A thread and there is no ruling on whether you can TR BoM as Feast if the first play gains the last Feast. Oh well.

That particular situation has not been discussed, no. The discussion was that BoM gets trashed after the first play and people were arguing that since it had left play ("This is that card until it leaves play") you could now choose to play BoM as a different thing on the second play. The ruling was that TR was "locked in" on BoM as Feast, however. Essentially the thing it was playing twice was Feast, not BoM. BoM did not get an opportunity to choose another card in the supply to imitate on the second play (and therefore it doesn't matter if there is a card in the supply for it to imitate).



Here's the thread where the Throne Room / Band of Misfits / Feast ruling got hashed out: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4083.0

Yeah, this is the thread I linked.
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Donald X.

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #311 on: December 25, 2014, 03:50:19 am »
+3

Here's the thread where the Throne Room / Band of Misfits / Feast ruling got hashed out: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4083.0

Yeah, this is the thread I linked.
Here it is one more time, just to be sure: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4083.0
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soulnet

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #312 on: December 25, 2014, 07:22:23 am »
+1

Thread links make terrible KC targets.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #313 on: December 25, 2014, 07:32:39 am »
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TL;DR  Do we have an answer to #3?
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soulnet

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #314 on: December 25, 2014, 09:01:50 am »
+1

TL;DR  Do we have an answer to #3?

There is none. The original idea was wrong, and so was every other proposal until now.

BTW, in the case of TR/KC/Procession on BoM as Ironworks, there is no need for any strange ruling. BoM never leaves play in between the two plays, so it IS an IW for the second play, regardless of whether TR/KC/Procession re-looks at it or has it locked (which matters for TR-Feast).
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #315 on: December 25, 2014, 09:25:52 am »
0

Thank you. I have a followup then, and I don't have a rules sheet available.  Also, as I'm typing this, I realize that my absence from the game caused me to mis-remember what Fools Gold was, so:

What happens when you throne room a treasure map?  Is such a play the same as playing two treasure maps?  Is Treasure Map a possible answer to #3?
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #316 on: December 25, 2014, 10:07:03 am »
0

What happens when you throne room a treasure map?
You play it twice.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #317 on: December 25, 2014, 10:50:04 am »
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What happens when you throne room a treasure map?
You play it twice.

I appreciate the response, and the lesson on asking the question better.  Let me rephrase:  What are the end effects of playing a throne room and choosing Treasure Map as the target for the throne room? Specifically, do you get the 4 golds, and topdeck them?

Asking it that way may be more clear than the (now) bolded part of my original question:

What happens when you throne room a treasure map?  Is such a play the same as playing two treasure maps?  Is Treasure Map a possible answer to #3?

I can see that there may be a difference between playing a Treasure Map twice and playing two treasure maps.  That is why I am asking.

And, if TR'ing a Treasure Map, does not give you 4 golds, then:
Is Treasure Map a possible answer to #3?

« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 10:54:12 am by SwitchedFromStarcraft »
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #318 on: December 25, 2014, 11:16:03 am »
+1

Thank you. I have a followup then, and I don't have a rules sheet available.  Also, as I'm typing this, I realize that my absence from the game caused me to mis-remember what Fools Gold was, so:

What happens when you throne room a treasure map?  Is such a play the same as playing two treasure maps?  Is Treasure Map a possible answer to #3?
If you play a Treasure Map, you can reveal a second Treasure Map from your gain the 4 Golds. You never play that second Treasure Map from the hand.

So now, if you throne a Treasure Map, you can trash a Treasure Map from your hand twice. So, on the first play, you can reveal a second Treasure Map from the hand and trash both to gain and topdeck 4 Golds. Now just like with Throne Room playing Feast. You play the Treasure Map a second time even though the card in play got trashed. The second time you play it, you have the opportunity to trash yet another Treasure Map from your hand. However, gaining the the 4 Golds is conditional on both the Treasure Map in play and the one in hand to be trashed. You can't trash the Throned Treasure Map a second time (because it's already in the trash), so you don't gain another 4 Golds.

Throning a Treasure Map let's you trash 2 other Treasure Maps from hand, but you can only get 4 Golds once.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #319 on: December 26, 2014, 02:51:27 am »
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Thanks.  I'm so rusty I forgot that the TMs get trashed.
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #320 on: December 30, 2014, 07:47:38 am »
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Ok, trying to keep this interesting, difficult, and 1 and only 1 answer to each question (fingers crossed)...

(1) I am not a Reaction card, but I can be revealed just like one.  That is, I am triggered at times when I am not visible to all players.  What am I?

(2) I am an Attack card, but you cannot ever play me.  What am I?

(3) I am in the supply.  I enable certain cards to be bought by a player, which cannot be bought by any other players for the rest of the game.  What am I?  Hint/clarification: I am similar to a Tournament, in that any given Prize can only be gained by 1 player (unless they're trashed then gained by different players, or passed to other players like with Masquerade), except the keyword here is *buy*, not gain.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 07:50:30 am by Dingan »
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #321 on: December 30, 2014, 07:51:48 am »
0

(3) I am in the supply.  I enable certain cards to be bought by a player, which cannot be bought by any other players for the rest of the game.  What am I?  Hint/clarification: I am similar to a Tournament, in that any given Prize can only be gained by 1 player (unless they're trashed then gained by different players, or passed to other players like with Masquerade), except the keyword here is *buy*, not gain.

Black Market.
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soulnet

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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #322 on: December 30, 2014, 08:09:36 am »
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(1) I am not a Reaction card, but I can be revealed just like one.  That is, I am triggered at times when I am not visible to all players.  What am I?

This could be Copper, revealed from the discard through Counting House, Province, revealed from hand through Tournament. "Reveal just like a Reaction" is not clearly defined, but any card can really fulfill the condition "revealed at a time when it was not visible by all players" when it revealed from hand by playing Shanty Town, Menagerie, etc, from your own deck by Wandering Minstrel, Apothecary, etc, from opponent's deck by Rabble and the like, and maybe others.

(2) I am an Attack card, but you cannot ever play me.  What am I?

I hope this is some wordplay trick or something like that.

(3) I am in the supply.  I enable certain cards to be bought by a player, which cannot be bought by any other players for the rest of the game.  What am I?  Hint/clarification: I am similar to a Tournament, in that any given Prize can only be gained by 1 player (unless they're trashed then gained by different players, or passed to other players like with Masquerade), except the keyword here is *buy*, not gain.

Black Market is likely what you had in mind, although any Knight also enables a card (itself) to be bought solely by a player. Although, technically, you could return it to the supply with Ambassador and make it be bought by another player later, so BM is a better answer anyway.
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #323 on: December 30, 2014, 08:10:02 am »
0

(3) I am in the supply.  I enable certain cards to be bought by a player, which cannot be bought by any other players for the rest of the game.  What am I?  Hint/clarification: I am similar to a Tournament, in that any given Prize can only be gained by 1 player (unless they're trashed then gained by different players, or passed to other players like with Masquerade), except the keyword here is *buy*, not gain.

Black Market.
8)
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Re: What Card Am I?
« Reply #324 on: December 30, 2014, 08:19:17 am »
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(1) I am not a Reaction card, but I can be revealed just like one.  That is, I am triggered at times when I am not visible to all players.  What am I?

This could be Copper, revealed from the discard through Counting House, Province, revealed from hand through Tournament. "Reveal just like a Reaction" is not clearly defined, but any card can really fulfill the condition "revealed at a time when it was not visible by all players" when it revealed from hand by playing Shanty Town, Menagerie, etc, from your own deck by Wandering Minstrel, Apothecary, etc, from opponent's deck by Rabble and the like, and maybe others.

(2) I am an Attack card, but you cannot ever play me.  What am I?

I hope this is some wordplay trick or something like that.

(3) I am in the supply.  I enable certain cards to be bought by a player, which cannot be bought by any other players for the rest of the game.  What am I?  Hint/clarification: I am similar to a Tournament, in that any given Prize can only be gained by 1 player (unless they're trashed then gained by different players, or passed to other players like with Masquerade), except the keyword here is *buy*, not gain.

Black Market is likely what you had in mind, although any Knight also enables a card (itself) to be bought solely by a player. Although, technically, you could return it to the supply with Ambassador and make it be bought by another player later, so BM is a better answer anyway.

(1) I realize now that my wording was unclear.  You are right in that all of those would work with the wording I chose.  But none of them are what I was thinking.  Here is my attempt to clarify (which still might not be absolutely clear, but I'll try): I am triggered by another player playing a card.  Upon this trigger, you may or may not reveal me (I'm pretty sure this fits the definition of the Reaction card).  I think this rules out everything you mentioned.

(2) No wordplay here.

(3) Yes, the answer is Black Market.  You are right in that Knights are ruled out by the scenario you mentioned.
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