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Author Topic: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play  (Read 55460 times)

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AdamH

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #125 on: January 11, 2015, 01:48:00 pm »
0

[...]

This, lol. It's not like we're expecting more from them than what can be done by one guy in his spare time after a dayjob at Google.

+1 for you  :)

But I'm mildly* offended that you omitted the part where you said The Terminal With Tom Hanks is the best movie ever, I feel that deserved additional emphasis.

*by "mildly" I mean "not actually"
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2015, 02:29:05 pm »
+2

@Adam: word.

I'm incensed at Goko/MF right now. I made a thread on their forum about the counter/adventure glitches. Today, I checked, and the thread had been deleted. They moved my post into another thread... about a different glitch. That just gives it away that they don't actually care about their user feedback and they're just lumping everything under the blanket title of "some people are having problems". If you want people to have a good time on your website, you might want to, I dunno, pay attention to what issues people are actually having.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #127 on: January 11, 2015, 03:00:38 pm »
+6

the thread had been deleted. They moved my post into another thread...

On the bright side, things really must be going blissfully well if regrouping complaints has made it to the top of their priority list!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #128 on: January 11, 2015, 04:37:53 pm »
+1

In the software world, at least the software world I live in, the only distinction between "not working at all" and "only working part of the time" is one of helping me track down what the issue is. The product isn't working, and from the customers' perspective (or anyone in the world except the person trying to fix the issue) it might as well be dead all of the time.
I don't disagree. The reason I pointed out what I pointed out was because a)it might not actually be the same problem. b)more importantly, I would guess that they THOUGHT it was fixed. Is that stupid of them? Sure, probably. Are they incompetent? I can't really argue against that. But I also would argue that you really shouldn't be mad at someone because they're incompetent or stupid.

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You may say that Goko working some of the time is better than it working none of the time because hey, it's working some of the time, right? Well, the short answer to that is "No. Just no." For several reasons, the big ones include:

1. I paid them money. The promise they gave me is that I could use their game whenever I want. Some outages are allowable, but this one is multiple orders of magnitude beyond what is acceptable. They are not delivering on the promise that made me pay them money.

2. I've wasted a few hours of my time this week scheduling and/or attempting to play league and world cup matches that just didn't work out because Goko wasn't working. If Goko was just broken my time wouldn't have been wasted.
1. What promise? When did they make you that promise? They never made me that promise. Seriously, they didn't actually promise you anything. You assumed that. All of that, you assumed that. Quite frankly, it wasn't a great assumption to make. You had no reason to expect this from them. Should you be able to expect that kind of service? That's a question we can ask. But based on what we had seen, it was naive of you to think it would magically get to that point. It was never there.

2. Again, this isn't Goko. It's Making Fun. But more to the point, that you had made plans is not their problem. Just like your point at the top, that it's out is a problem whether sometimes or all the time, the same thing here. It's out is not more of a problem because you had special plans. And I had the same special plans, and I sat around all day waiting yesterday, too, but their problem is that their service isn't working, not that it isn't working when we wanted to do this stuff. It's not like they set the league up or promote it or anything like that.

Quote
The whole thing about feeling sympathy towards their workers is also something I don't understand. It's not like they need to hire someone to sit there all night and all of the weekends, just sitting in front of the computer, playing Solitaire just in case something breaks. No, you can just have someone on call in case something happens.

And even if they needed to do that first thing, having someone just sit around and have no life; well, that's what they signed up for. If they didn't want to make a commitment to have their servers up and running 24/7/365, then they should have told us that their servers would only run during certain times before I paid them my money. There is no reason to relax this expectation, not even a little bit.
I'm not necessarily imagining them sitting there playing solitaire or what have you. I get on call. But that doesn't change my point. My point is, that's NOT what they (the workers) signed up for. Or at least, I assume it isn't. I know that I certainly wouldn't take a job working there if I had to be on call. If any job I worked at was going to have me work outside my working hours, I'd say forget it. Why in the world should I do that? It's waaaaaaay more important for me to have the time alone with my loved ones - and that is something I think is true for everyone.

Quote
Things happen, stuff goes wrong. Hardware fails, or transient bugs come up that manifest in weird, unforeseen ways. Regardless, if it hasn't been fixed within a "reasonable amount of time"* then someone needs to make an official statement and say what's going on. That's a reasonable expectation to have.

The excuses we've been given -- the code was bad, we're doing our best, we're writing a new thing. They don't make this any more OK. I'm not even going to talk about how true these excuses may be (in this post**) but these things are not acceptable reasons to not provide the service they promised.

Seriously, if I performed like this at my job, I'd be fired. There's no reason not to hold them to these completely reasonable expectations.




*if I'm being as generous as I can possibly be, I'll give them 24 hours for this. It's been what, two weeks now? Completely unacceptable***.

**OK I lied, I can't resist. They're total crap.

***I tried so hard to get a clip of Viktor Navorski (Tom Hanks' character in The Terminal****) saying "Unacceptable" for this, but I couldn't find one. Sad day.

****Best movie ever.

But the issue is, there's no way to actually hold them to these expectations. You payed them money for access to those cards. They can completely go out of business, permanently take the site down tomorrow, they'd be fine. So long as they aren't running the service whilst denying you access, they're fine. You can complain until the cows come home, but that is all you can do. You can give them a bad name, I suppose, so that other people don't start using their service. I'm not sure that this really helps you, but feel free. Just don't be surprised if this doesn't help anything - why would it? You don't think they know this is an arrangement people are going to be unhappy with? The issue is, no matter how easy it supposedly is to do this - and while I don't think it's as "absolutely anyone can do it, piece of cake" easy as some would make it sound, I don't doubt that it is indeed very doable - the people who are running these companies clearly have not been able to get the site working on anything which would resemble good quality, and I think it's quite, how do I say, foolhardy, to expect otherwise, at the very least until they have demonstrated otherwise.


tl;dr it's your own fault for assuming they'd be good when every sign has shown us otherwise.

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #129 on: January 11, 2015, 05:04:11 pm »
0

Meanwhile, Prismata and Hearthstone servers both seem to be fine.

don't forget Bridge Base Online
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jaketheyak

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #130 on: January 11, 2015, 05:09:35 pm »
+11

I'm impressed at the amount of time and effort WW is spending to tell people they shouldn't waste their time and effort on complaining.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #131 on: January 11, 2015, 05:16:34 pm »
+2

I'm not necessarily imagining them sitting there playing solitaire or what have you. I get on call. But that doesn't change my point. My point is, that's NOT what they (the workers) signed up for. Or at least, I assume it isn't. I know that I certainly wouldn't take a job working there if I had to be on call. If any job I worked at was going to have me work outside my working hours, I'd say forget it. Why in the world should I do that? It's waaaaaaay more important for me to have the time alone with my loved ones - and that is something I think is true for everyone.

We have no way of actually knowing what they actually signed up for, or how many developers they have, but it is absolutely reasonable to assume that theysomeone did in fact sign up to keep the web service running. This is the industry standard, and is the expectation for customers of a web service.  The company I work for has a web service, and the developers on that team take turns being on call because that is what is expected from our customers.

I do not envy the developer(s) who are working on this project right now, and they aren't the first company to struggle with customer relations in this type of situation; However, I don't think it is correct to say that they did not sign up to keep their webservice running.  If they don't have anyone on call to deal with weekend server issues, it is a deviation from standard and is absolutely something that should have been communicated to customers before they purchased the product.  (Slap a "beta" on it for 10 years like Google...)


I'm impressed at the amount of time and effort WW is spending to tell people they shouldn't waste their time and effort on complaining.
Goko is down... what the heck else are we all supposed to do.  ;)

AdamH

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #132 on: January 11, 2015, 05:19:13 pm »
+1

You can complain until the cows come home, but that is all you can do. You can give them a bad name, I suppose, so that other people don't start using their service. I'm not sure that this really helps you, but feel free. Just don't be surprised if this doesn't help anything - why would it?

This is all I can do, correct. But it does make me feel better, and I'm sure many people are amused by it  :)
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #133 on: January 11, 2015, 05:41:49 pm »
0

I'm not necessarily imagining them sitting there playing solitaire or what have you. I get on call. But that doesn't change my point. My point is, that's NOT what they (the workers) signed up for. Or at least, I assume it isn't. I know that I certainly wouldn't take a job working there if I had to be on call. If any job I worked at was going to have me work outside my working hours, I'd say forget it. Why in the world should I do that? It's waaaaaaay more important for me to have the time alone with my loved ones - and that is something I think is true for everyone.

We have no way of actually knowing what they actually signed up for, or how many developers they have, but it is absolutely reasonable to assume that theysomeone did in fact sign up to keep the web service running. This is the industry standard, and is the expectation for customers of a web service.  The company I work for has a web service, and the developers on that team take turns being on call because that is what is expected from our customers.

I do not envy the developer(s) who are working on this project right now, and they aren't the first company to struggle with customer relations in this type of situation; However, I don't think it is correct to say that they did not sign up to keep their webservice running.  If they don't have anyone on call to deal with weekend server issues, it is a deviation from standard and is absolutely something that should have been communicated to customers before they purchased the product.  (Slap a "beta" on it for 10 years like Google...)


I'm impressed at the amount of time and effort WW is spending to tell people they shouldn't waste their time and effort on complaining.
Goko is down... what the heck else are we all supposed to do.  ;)

Obviously if someone signed up for that, I would expect them to be working on it, doing that right now. I'd be stunned by that, though, considering the level of service we've been receiving on a consistent basis...

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2015, 05:46:53 pm »
+2

Meanwhile, Prismata and Hearthstone servers both seem to be fine.

don't forget Bridge Base Online
And don't forget innovation.isotropic.org! (I plug because dougz is awesome more so than that innovation is awesome.  Echoes+Figures can be pretty fun though)
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pacovf

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #135 on: January 11, 2015, 05:50:06 pm »
0

I for one play hearts on my computer while I wait for my PBF opponent to post his turn.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #136 on: January 11, 2015, 05:50:44 pm »
0

Meanwhile, Prismata and Hearthstone servers both seem to be fine.

don't forget Bridge Base Online
And don't forget innovation.isotropic.org! (I plug because dougz is awesome more so than that innovation is awesome.  Echoes+Figures can be pretty fun though)

Innovation is awesome though, even base only games.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #137 on: January 11, 2015, 05:52:38 pm »
0

Meanwhile, Prismata and Hearthstone servers both seem to be fine.

don't forget Bridge Base Online
And don't forget innovation.isotropic.org! (I plug because dougz is awesome more so than that innovation is awesome.  Echoes+Figures can be pretty fun though)

Innovation is awesome though, even base only games.

I have not enjoyed the few games of Innovation I've played.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #138 on: January 11, 2015, 06:06:30 pm »
0

But I also would argue that you really shouldn't be mad at someone because they're incompetent or stupid.

Thanks for this reminder, this is something I forget WAY too often.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #139 on: January 11, 2015, 07:36:00 pm »
0

Oh, and by the by, I once again can't get in. Actually, the seemingly random nature of when I can and can't is the biggest weird frustration for me, personally.

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #140 on: January 11, 2015, 07:40:48 pm »
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Oh, and by the by, I once again can't get in. Actually, the seemingly random nature of when I can and can't is the biggest weird frustration for me, personally.

The ways of Goko are inscrutable...
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #141 on: January 11, 2015, 08:02:52 pm »
+2

Obviously if someone signed up for that, I would expect them to be working on it, doing that right now. I'd be stunned by that, though, considering the level of service we've been receiving on a consistent basis...

I can't really disagree with you there.  I mainly just wanted to say that lacking someone who keeps the server running 24/7 (or at least 12/7) is not a normal situation for a web service.  I think Adam is correct when he said a policy of "we won't make sure our service stays up on the weekend" is something that should be transparent to customers before they decide to make a purchase.  Unfortunately, that would be a bit of a Catch-22 because I suspect you would get negative feedback similar to that in this thread just by stating such a policy.

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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #142 on: January 12, 2015, 08:07:47 am »
+2

I don't think MF is worried about, listens to, is aware of, or potentially even can read negative feedback.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #143 on: January 12, 2015, 10:54:59 am »
+1

Um... hate to be that person but... all my glitches are fixed now. Logged in automatically, counters are working and accurate, store is loading, adventures are business as usual.

I think they finally got it.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #144 on: January 12, 2015, 10:57:36 am »
+1

Um... hate to be that person but... all my glitches are fixed now. Logged in automatically, counters are working and accurate, store is loading, adventures are business as usual.

I think they finally got it.

hmm, not wanting to be a downer, but I had everything working half of yesterday, then suddenly stopped working. Although everything seems fine to me now too :)
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #145 on: January 12, 2015, 11:03:38 am »
+1

Um... hate to be that person but... all my glitches are fixed now. Logged in automatically, counters are working and accurate, store is loading, adventures are business as usual.

I think they finally got it.

hmm, not wanting to be a downer, but I had everything working half of yesterday, then suddenly stopped working. Although everything seems fine to me now too :)

I was locked out all of yesterday, then I went on today for the first time and it was completely normal. I want to believe that they have everything working now, but I guess this just means that the down points are happening less often. Still, it's a massive improvement!
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #146 on: January 12, 2015, 11:36:03 am »
0

There's over 200 people in lobbies on Goko, that's about normal. Guess it's fixed then (at least until next time) :)
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #147 on: January 12, 2015, 12:13:47 pm »
0

More server downtime. Yay. I mailed Goko two days ago about this. Not even so much as a response. Goko = Comcast
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #148 on: January 12, 2015, 12:16:42 pm »
0

Annnnnnnnnnnd it's down again.

It's like they saw people having fun with the working server and were like "Nope! Can't have that!"

Eh, even though Goko are made of suck, I don't think they can be as bad as Scamcast.
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Re: Goko Is Games That No One Can Play
« Reply #149 on: January 12, 2015, 12:20:00 pm »
0

This one is their normal server restart, that happens every Monday. I was playing, and there was a warning message about it. Was working fine before then.
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