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[soulnet]

I think we should also vote for the relegation matches. People who were against the idea commented on it, while people in favor stayed more quiet. I'm also slightly in favor of the relegation matches.

I think that, and also some text, is an indicator that people against relegation matches feel more strongly on the subject. I would not like the gap between seasons to be large, but also would hate to be demoted just for being unavailable to play in a particular gap, especially since it is impossible to know in advance if I have to.

Stef, I think there should be a rule on whether people staying (no promotion or demotion) in a division other than the top will always stay together or they would be shuffled (random or non-randomly) with the others at the same level. I would prefer the latter, as it will give more dynamism to lower divisions, which seems fun.

[shraeye]

I think you'll face a problem towards the end where people know they cant get promoted or demoted so there's very little incentive to play that game. Which would mean you would need some sort of penalties..

Surrendering more than say one match per season sounds like good grounds for disqualification from the league.

Not disqualification, but perhaps auto-demotion.  Although surrendered matches are a sure way to end up at the bottom of a division's table.

Sounds great.  I would suggest shorter cycles.  More movement between divisions would add interest and excitement.  And, it could be frustrating to play certain members regularly for a few months, have a few bad games, and then have to wait 2 months to play the members you're used to playing.

I like the idea of playing mostly the same people.  It's kinda a bonding thing, in a way.  If I'm not great enough for promotion (and I'm not), I get the benefit of a small community of 3-4 people who I play semi-regularly against.  It's fun, even if I'm not successful.

Also the 8 people groups at same league level (2nd and more) can be somehow shuffled together so that you play with different people each season.

Nah, you should just have timezone divisions to make scheduling easier.

I.E:

- Division A would be essentially a "World" division, no way around it
- Division B could be divided roughly into Europe/Africa and USA/Asia/Oceania
- There are 4 Division C's, so these will be mostly people in the same timezones, not more than 3 hours apart
Etc...

The fun part about having regional divisions is that you could choose to play your match in real life if you wanted to.

Love it.  The people who are dedicated enough to be in the top division are also dedicated enough to make the more awkward match-times.  I'm simply not good enough to justify moving around my non-dominion schedule at all in order to make a match.  So the lower divisions would have the convenience of easy-to-schedule matches.

[shraeye]

I agree completely with your views on the division sizes.

Relegation matches: I'm completely for them.  If you simply decree that #1/2 move up and #5/6/7/8 down, that is WAAAYYY too much movement for a "league" system.  Giving a few auto-relegation/promotion spots with some spots that have a play-off for relegation/promotion is the best.  Sometimes #2 will ALSO be strong enough to deserve a spot in the next-highest league, and sometimes, in a weaker division, only #1 will deserve it, but #2 isn't as strong as numbers 5/6 from the higher league.  The relegation/promotion matches will sort all that out nicely.

number of games per match:  my preference is for smaller matches, as it's easier for me to commit to.  I understand that the better players want more games as it reduces variance and focuses more strictly on skill.  Perhaps there could be a player-preference set, and whichever system has the most votes in a division is the set of rules under which that division plays.  If there are multiple people in the same time-zone, perhaps they could also be grouped by #ofGames preference so everybody is maximally happy.

[Temron]

I would be interested in this as well. After reading all the arguments I would like to chime in and say that I like idea of relegation matches! Everything else looks good to me.

[GeoLib]

What about as a compromise on relegation matches, we have challenge matches? So a #2 can challenge a #5 or #6 from the division(s) directly above if they think they have a shot of making it in?

[Voltaire]

What about as a compromise on relegation matches, we have challenge matches? So a #2 can challenge a #5 or #6 from the division(s) directly above if they think they have a shot of making it in?

Why would someone not challenge?

[GeoLib]

What about as a compromise on relegation matches, we have challenge matches? So a #2 can challenge a #5 or #6 from the division(s) directly above if they think they have a shot of making it in?

Why would someone not challenge?

They don't have time/want to take a break during the off season. I thought that was one of the major complaints about relegation matches. Though I suppose it doesn't solve the problem if the challenged doesn't have time.

[silverspawn]

I'll be in

[hvb]

I have a proposal that belongs to the league names as well as to the modus

1: 1 World League              World League

2: 3 Continental Leagues:   America League
                                        Europe League (incl. Africa)
                                        Asia League (incl. Australia)

3: 9 National Leagues:       US Pacific
                                        US Atlantic
                                        Columbus (canada and the rest of N+S-America)
                                        Baltic Sea (Scandinavia + Germany)
                                        North Sea (Netherlands, Belgium, UK, France)
                                        Mediterranian East (South and East Europe)
                                        Far East (Japan, Korea, China)
                                        Australia (Australia, NZL, Tiger States)
                                        Central Asia (Russia, India, Middle East and the Rest of Asia)

4: Regional Leagues:          best would be 3 per National League, will highly depend how many player will sign up in the Regions


I think that would be a clear modus and everybody (except the 1 world league) could play without big time differences. The borders in the National Leagues can get modified, depending on the player base in the countries.



It that modus 6-8 players per league would be perfect. The first of each league goes up, the last 3 go down. For example with 8 players (without play-offs):

1.        goes up
2. - 5.  stays
6. - 8.  go down


8 players with play-off:

1. - 4. play for 1 slot to go up in a final four:    semis 1. vs. 4. and 2. vs. 3. + final. a 3-3 draw could count as win for the higher seeded
5. - 8. play for 1 slot to stay in the league:       semis 5. vs. 8. ang 6. vs. 7. +final. a 3-3 draw could count as win for the higher seeded

i think play offs would be nice cause everybody is motivated till the end in group stage, so noone is induced to play bad cause he cant go up anymore or goes down anyway. and play-offs are thriller with a lot of adrenalin.

[Simon (DK)]

I haven't seen this thread untill recently, and didn't have time to read it through before today.
I've had pretty much the same idea before, but didn't feel that up to organizing it.
I think it's a very good idea, and I would love participating.

I would be willing to help on the organizing team. I know I'm not a respected dominion player, but I have experience with leagues. For years I've been playing on a site called shockplay, that has integrated leagues (there's 7 different games that has a league each), and I've been admin for 1 of the leagues, so I had to make the hard decisions every time something happened. I think that experience could be good here in some situations.

[EgorK]

I have a proposal that belongs to the league names as well as to the modus

1: 1 World League              World League

2: 3 Continental Leagues:   America League
                                        Europe League (incl. Africa)
                                        Asia League (incl. Australia)

Now suppose 2 american and asian player would get demoted from World League, what would you do? I think best way is to divide whoever is in given league based on timezone, but with no fixed regions. Also having all of Russia in single division is not good thing to do - we have difference of 9 hours between eastmost and westmost timezones

[TheMirrorMan]

Is the timezone problem such an issue ? I mean, GokoDom proves it can get sorted.

[hvb]

Now suppose 2 american and asian player would get demoted from World League, what would you do? I think best way is to divide whoever is in given league based on timezone, but with no fixed regions. Also having all of Russia in single division is not good thing to do - we have difference of 9 hours between eastmost and westmost timezones

In that case, you have to adapt the number of demoters in the lower leagues. In your case 3 would demote from asia league, 4 would demote from america league and 2 demote from europe league.
Thats a mode you can in a lot offind  sport leagues with regional borders. I know it from field hockey in germany. The first league is german-wide. There are 2 second leagues, north and south. 2 teams demote every season from first league. If they are lets say both from north, then there are 3 teams that demote from 2nd league north and just one from the south. The system works fine at all.

[EgorK]

Now suppose 2 american and asian player would get demoted from World League, what would you do? I think best way is to divide whoever is in given league based on timezone, but with no fixed regions. Also having all of Russia in single division is not good thing to do - we have difference of 9 hours between eastmost and westmost timezones

In that case, you have to adapt the number of demoters in the lower leagues. In your case 3 would demote from asia league, 4 would demote from america league and 2 demote from europe league.
Thats a mode you can in a lot offind  sport leagues with regional borders. I know it from field hockey in germany. The first league is german-wide. There are 2 second leagues, north and south. 2 teams demote every season from first league. If they are lets say both from north, then there are 3 teams that demote from 2nd league north and just one from the south. The system works fine at all.

Seems a tad unfair to me

[lespeutere]

Is the timezone problem such an issue ? I mean, GokoDom proves it can get sorted.

This, mostly. I mean, it's played on the internet, it's not like flying 10 h to meet manzi in Japan.

[HiveMindEmulator]

It can be hard to find matching times when timezones are way off, but sometimes its hard even in the same timezone, just due to schedules and the fact that Dominion isn't everyone's #1 priority. Matching up timezones is a nice secondary objective for sorting players into divisions within a tier, but it definitely shouldn't affect the promotion/relegation structure, imo.

[GeoLib]

It can be hard to find matching times when timezones are way off, but sometimes its hard even in the same timezone, just due to schedules and the fact that Dominion isn't everyone's #1 priority. Matching up timezones is a nice secondary objective for sorting players into divisions within a tier, but it definitely shouldn't affect the promotion/relegation structure, imo.

I strongly agree. Not to mention that this just makes it more of a headache for the organizers. Within each level with more than one division, sure break them up by approximate time zones, but don't structure the league around this.

[-Stef-]

Timezones never were a problem in any tournament, and they won't be in this league either.
Off course promotions/demotions won't depend on your time offset.

But hey, this is f.ds, where people claiming scout is good or lookout the best $3 trasher get maximum response.
Why would it be any different when organizing a tournament? Off course we spend a lot of time debating timezones and division names.
That's all fine with me, as long as you also take a moment to vote on stuff that actually matters.

[WanderingWinder]

Timezones never were a problem in any tournament,

This is definitely false.

[Kirian]

Timezones never were a problem in any tournament,

This is definitely false.

Yes.  Several matches in GokoDom have been left unplayed (bye by default) due to scheduling difficulties.  With the league setup, this shouldn't be as bad because you'll have two months in which to schedule matches (except of course for relegation matches if they exist).  On the other hand, it presents a definite extra problem as GokoDom has rules in place to deal with these defaults, whereas the league couldn't reasonably hand a 3-3 tie to each player, as that's abusable as all hell.  On the gripping hand, trying to generate groups by TZ is going to be really difficult, as you might have a group of three players in East Asia/Oceania (UTC+7 to UTC+12), yet have three full groups in the Americas (UTC-9 to UTC-3).  In the upper leagues, those are going to get smashed together anyway.

[dominion123]

When can I sign up for this?

[florrat]

When can I sign up for this?

You cannot sign up yet. That still has to start. Check this subforum regularly to see whether they have opened.

[dominion123]

When can I sign up for this?

You cannot sign up yet. That still has to start. Check this subforum regularly to see whether they have opened.

are there any tournaments I can sign up to now?

[TheMirrorMan]

A little suggestion for the Dominion League :

How about putting together a small Doodle per division, showing the days that people are unavailable ? Not in the sense of time, but more days off with other priorities (holiday, festivities ...). That way you can quickly organize who to play when.

[yed]

A little suggestion for the Dominion League :

How about putting together a small Doodle per division, showing the days that people are unavailable ? Not in the sense of time, but more days off with other priorities (holiday, festivities ...). That way you can quickly organize who to play when.

But we don't have days in the same time... time zones...