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[ashersky]

vote: voltaire

He's the only option, and the only other voters have posted their thoughts and I'm fairly confident they won't derphammer.

I'm assuming Arch won't be swayed, so that does make it basically L-1 on both of us with Walrus to decide.

[Archetype]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a compulsive gladiator as a scum role. It doesn't exactly make sense as a town role either, but it makes *more* sense--it just seems so weird if scum were forced to be out in the open like that, especially in a game of this size.

I've mentioned before, but if you are going to have a scum gladiator, it basically must be compulsive, or scum just won't use the power.  If you check out LOTR2, you'll see it in use there (compulsive once on D1 or D2, non-compulsive after that).  It's basically how Voltaire's role sounds now, almost a copy.  So it's very possible that he's a scum gladiator (from a setup perspective, at least).

You're still overlooking the fact that this is a 9 player game, not 13.

Have we discussed a no lynch?

[ashersky]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a compulsive gladiator as a scum role. It doesn't exactly make sense as a town role either, but it makes *more* sense--it just seems so weird if scum were forced to be out in the open like that, especially in a game of this size.

I've mentioned before, but if you are going to have a scum gladiator, it basically must be compulsive, or scum just won't use the power.  If you check out LOTR2, you'll see it in use there (compulsive once on D1 or D2, non-compulsive after that).  It's basically how Voltaire's role sounds now, almost a copy.  So it's very possible that he's a scum gladiator (from a setup perspective, at least).

You're still overlooking the fact that this is a 9 player game, not 13.

Have we discussed a no lynch?

I asked yuma already.  He said the one with more votes dies, if there's a tie it's random.  No lynch is not an option.

[ashersky]

You're still overlooking the fact that this is a 9 player game, not 13.

I'm not overlooking it.  If yuma put in a gladiator (or either alignment) in a 9-player game, he planned for it.  The role stealing thing is pretty cool, if it's real.  It's also great for scum, if it's real.

If he put in a compulsive gladiator in a 9-player game, I think scum is more likely than not, as it's easy to make the argument that "it's too crazy to make scum a compulsive gladiator in a small game!" and just argue his way to surviving.

I'm just looking at things from a mod/game designer perspective.  9-player games are hard to balance (I know, I'm trying to perfect Dune Mafia still) when you are trying to make it RMM.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.6

Voltaire (4): Eevee, jotheonah, faust, ashersky
ashersky (3): Voltaire, EFHW, xeiron

Not Voting (2): Walrus, Arch

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

The deadline for Day1 is 8 days. Day1 will end on Tuesday February 4 at 7:30 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

I feel very confident that this is town!Voltaire.  And being less sure of ashersky's alignment is important for two reasons.  1.  I don't want to kill town if it can be prevented.  And 2. if Voltaire is lynched then there is the chance his role falls into mafia hands.  I don't know if ash is scum, I'd say 60/40 he's town, but if these are our choices I think he is the better lynch.

[EFHW]

Arch can you put your vote back?  If the others are going to put Voltaire at L-1, then ashersky should be too.

[ashersky]

I feel very confident that this is town!Voltaire.

Can I ask why?  I'd say he seems more like my partner from Chocolate Factory than any town game he's played recently.

[ashersky]

Arch can you put your vote back?  If the others are going to put Voltaire at L-1, then ashersky should be too.

Unless you've had a change of heart, of course.

[EFHW]

Just the spontaneity of his posts.  He sounds like GofT Voltaire to me.

[ashersky]

Just the spontaneity of his posts.  He sounds like GofT Voltaire to me.

I feel like most of his posts were NOT spontaneous.  Like, they were very, very deliberate, in fact.  The whole voting for me without giving reasons on purpose and such.  That was very deliberate.

[Archetype]

Vote:ashersky

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.ash

Voltaire (4): ashersky, Eevee, jotheonah, faust
ashersky (4): Voltaire, EFHW, xeiron, Archetype

Not Voting (1): Walrus

Here's the vote count, I think, in the "true" order of votes.  That is, I moved myself back to the beginning of Voltaire's wagon, as I unvoted to avoid L-1 over the weekend, but I was on him from the very beginning, and he was the only person I've voted for all game.

I think wagon analysis will actually help here.  Voltaire's scum partner is likely voting me, I think.  Unless enough townies are incorrect about me that he can safely bus.  Of the ashersky voters, I'd actually rank their scumminess in the order of the votes placed.  For Voltaire voters, the inverse (so faust is scummiest, down to Eevee).

Not sure how much use that is, but figured it would be good to get reads down.

[ashersky]

A full popsquiz from me:

Scumread: Voltaire
Possible scumread: EFHW/xeiron/faust/joth
Possible town reads: Archetype/Eevee/Walrus
Town: ashersky

Hmmm...so that isn't so helpful.  Of my three possible town reads, I'd rate Arch as towniest, then Walrus, then Eevee as sort of middling.

Of my "possible scum" reads, I'd go EFHW, xeiron, faust, joth from least to most scummy.

So that's on record.  I'd suggest Voltaire do the same.  Popsquizzes from everyone would be nice, but I think Voltaire at least should be required.

[faust]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a compulsive gladiator as a scum role. It doesn't exactly make sense as a town role either, but it makes *more* sense--it just seems so weird if scum were forced to be out in the open like that, especially in a game of this size.

I've mentioned before, but if you are going to have a scum gladiator, it basically must be compulsive, or scum just won't use the power.  If you check out LOTR2, you'll see it in use there (compulsive once on D1 or D2, non-compulsive after that).  It's basically how Voltaire's role sounds now, almost a copy.  So it's very possible that he's a scum gladiator (from a setup perspective, at least).

I don't think that's necessarily true. If the Gladiator can gain other powers the way Voltaire described it, then scum might want to use it even if it wasn't compulsive.

[faust]

I feel very confident that this is town!Voltaire.  And being less sure of ashersky's alignment is important for two reasons.  1.  I don't want to kill town if it can be prevented.  And 2. if Voltaire is lynched then there is the chance his role falls into mafia hands.  I don't know if ash is scum, I'd say 60/40 he's town, but if these are our choices I think he is the better lynch.

You point 2 is absolutely not a reason to vote ashersky, but a reason to vote Voltaire! It is not a bad thing if Voltaire's role falls into town hands because that would mean that scum trades in their PR (if it's ashersky, then likely Redirector - his claim is probably true regardless of alignment) for a role that does nothing for them expect increase their chances to be lynched. OTOH, if Voltaire is scum and we don't lynch him, the scum team will now have a Redirector at use.

EFHW's defense of Voltaire is so fishy, it doesn't sit right with me, even if he flips town.

[faust]

Also, what's with everyone stating "I have a bad feeling about faust"? You mean just because it's not possible to vote for me today, it's okay to throw around baseless suspicion on me? Well, it isn't. If you think I'm scummy, go and point out why, so I have a possibility to respond.

I did point out why.

That's right, sorry, then, my post was not directed at you. But none of the other players vocing suspicion on me has pointed out why.

[faust]

Arch can you put your vote back?  If the others are going to put Voltaire at L-1, then ashersky should be too.

Also, this. Can't you have Archetype decide on his own when's a good time to vote, and for whom?

[faust]

I will think and sleep more before I vote. My brain is still pretty foggy. It's kind of weird being the tiebreaker here, almost as if I were the third party targeted by the gladiator event.

Third Party slip!!!

[faust]

So it seems that I am the one to convince Walrus to vote Voltaire now. That's tough considering how he has a scumread on me. Eevee, jotheonah, you might want to get in here.

But think about this: ashersky claimed a role that makes much sense flavorwise. It's arguably true that he has that role. Now why in all the world would scum inform us that they are a Redirector? All the misleading potential of that role is nullified with the claim. I do not see a strong scum narrative for what ashersky did here.

[faust]

Doing the popsquiz now:

Scumread: EFHW
Slight scumread: Voltaire, Archetype
Null: xeiron
Slight townread: Walrus, jotheonah
Townread: ashersky, Eevee

[faust]

That's pending on the flip we get of course.

town!Voltaire: xeiron gets townier a bit, Walrus gets scummier a bit if he hammered
scum!Voltaire: jotheonah gets townier, Walrus gets a lot townier if he hammered, xeiron gets a little scummier
town!ashersky: Eevee get a little less townie, Voltaire gets scummier, Walrus gets scummier if he hammered
scum!ashersky: All on the ashersky wagon get townier (especially EFHW and Voltaire), jotheonah gets scummier

[xeiron]

Popquiz.

Slight scum: Jotheonah, faust, Archetype.
Null: Ashersky
Slight town: Eevee, EFHW, Walrus, Voltaire.

[xeiron]

More certain ash is scum. Unfortunately the reasons relate to an ongoing game.

Just noticed this.  You realize I'm not in any ongoing games?

Yes you are.

What?  If so, I've been lurking for weeks.  And didnt know I was signed up.

Dynasty Warriors 2. We're both dead in it.

Dynasty warriors 2 is over.
Voltaire, can you elaborate on your scumread on Ashersky now?

[EFHW]

I feel very confident that this is town!Voltaire.  And being less sure of ashersky's alignment is important for two reasons.  1.  I don't want to kill town if it can be prevented.  And 2. if Voltaire is lynched then there is the chance his role falls into mafia hands.  I don't know if ash is scum, I'd say 60/40 he's town, but if these are our choices I think he is the better lynch.

You point 2 is absolutely not a reason to vote ashersky, but a reason to vote Voltaire! It is not a bad thing if Voltaire's role falls into town hands because that would mean that scum trades in their PR (if it's ashersky, then likely Redirector - his claim is probably true regardless of alignment) for a role that does nothing for them expect increase their chances to be lynched. OTOH, if Voltaire is scum and we don't lynch him, the scum team will now have a Redirector at use.

you missed my point.  I think Voltaire is town.  I am not worried about him getting ashersky's power.