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[GokoIsGamesThatGoNowhere]

I used to habitually put "gg" at the end whether I won or lost.  However, one time, some highly-ranked chap got very upset with me and berated me after I had luckboxed and won in dominant fashion.  I don't remember the exact exchange but it was along the lines of "NO it was NOT a good game.  You were SO lucky.  My deck was MUCH better" and various other comments interspersed with all-CAPS emphasis.  Naturally, this disturbed me because, from my point of view, it was a GREAT game!  I kicked his ass!

So now, when I beatdown a highly-ranked player, so as not convey false modesty or condescension, I write "Thanks for the game.  You just got your shit pushed in."

That seems to be more straightforward and I think the regulars appreciate it.

[silverspawn]

I used to habitually put "gg" at the end whether I won or lost.  However, one time, some highly-ranked chap got very upset with me and berated me after I had luckboxed and won in dominant fashion.  I don't remember the exact exchange but it was along the lines of "NO it was NOT a good game.  You were SO lucky.  My deck was MUCH better" and various other comments interspersed with all-CAPS emphasis.  Naturally, this disturbed me because, from my point of view, it was a GREAT game!  I kicked his ass!

So now, when I beatdown a highly-ranked player, so as not convey false modesty or condescension, I write "Thanks for the game.  You just got your shit pushed in."

That seems to be more straightforward and I think the regulars appreciate it.

and this is why i never ever play with people who are not in a 500 radius around my ranking...

[GokoIsGamesThatGoNowhere]

Hmm, based on your reactions, I am wondering you were the highly-ranked regular who berated me in the chat box?  Do you remember that particular exchange after getting your shit pushed in?  If so, I must apologize!  I was not attempting to demean you with my post-win "gg"; it just a part of my victory ritual that includes putting on Queen's "We are the Champions" and taking a shot of whisky. 

User was temp banned for this post.

[GokoIsGamesThatGoNowhere]

I am habituated to always say "gg" at the end of every game, win or lose.  I acknowledge that it was a "good game", that is, not marred by disrespectful rude behavior.

Realizing that people, for whatever bizarre reason, take offense to this, I have started to say instead "thanks for the game".  It is totally illogical to me to impute imaginary derogatory motives to someone and then get mad at them for having those same imaginary motives.  But whatever.

Loving this discussion!  I can't believe people get so riled up by online games!

To me "thanks for the game" is waaaaay more condescending than "gg".   To me, the guy expecting a courtesy "gg", you are effectively saying "This was not a good game.  I kicked your ass.  However, in the interest of etiquette, I must say something.  So I thank you for sacrificing five minutes of your time to indulge in this mockery of a competition, a contest that was so tilted in my favor that I may as well have been playing a child, or a monkey.  Nevertheless, while I don't respect your abilities as a player, I do respect the fact that you did not ragequit as I pummeled you time and time again with my eight scrying pools."

[silverspawn]

Hmm, based on your reactions, I am wondering you were the highly-ranked regular who berated me in the chat box?  Do you remember that particular exchange after getting your shit pushed in?  If so, I must apologize!  I was not attempting to demean you with my post-win "gg"; it just a part of my victory ritual that includes putting on Queen's "We are the Champions" and taking a shot of whisky.

i just told you that i dont ever play with people who are ranked a lot lower or higher than me, so no it couldn't have been me. i also don't whine when people beat me with drawing luck. it happens constantly as does the opposite. thats just part of playing dominion, the game is high skill/high luck

[GokoIsGamesThatGoNowhere]

On isotropic for some reason I used to always own one particular player named "ddubois".  He was a lot better than me but through a combination of luck and unpredictability (aka not knowing WTF I was doing), I managed to beat him every single time.  I suppose it is the sadist in me, but I have to admit that I quite enjoyed his post-game rants about how I was such a luckbox and how it was simply unbelievable that he would draw his KC with no action time and time again, etc.  I would just agree with him and say things like "what is KC? " and that infuriated him even more!  I guess I never realized there was this sordid underworld of guys who took this so seriously.  I mean, I used to encounter this all the time in poker, but at least money was at stake there...

[Aidan Millow]

My opinions

On 3.5: If the game is lagging badly on your turn you shouldn't be obligated to resign unless you're already loosing substantially. You should probably apologise and you definitely shouldn't start a game if you expect to suffer lag like this but, given that games are rated (regardless of how ridiculous the ratings might be) you shouldn't be forced to resign a 50:50 game due to circumstances beyond your control (This is what the wording of your OP implies to me, if that's not the case you might want to change it).

On 6: The thing about saying gg is that people have greatly differing reactions to it. It makes me feel better after a game when my opponent says gg, regardless of the outcome; I assume this is the case for most people as well. Obviously some people are offended by this but I'm almost certain that they are in the minority and furthermore (and I apologise to anyone whom what I'm about to say offends) the people who assume that a winning "gg" is a gloat and get noticeably upset by this are people who I'd rather not play with anyway. So I choose to cater to the feelings of the majority rather than them.

[GendoIkari]

On isotropic for some reason I used to always own one particular player named "ddubois".  He was a lot better than me but through a combination of luck and unpredictability (aka not knowing WTF I was doing), I managed to beat him every single time.  I suppose it is the sadist in me, but I have to admit that I quite enjoyed his post-game rants about how I was such a luckbox and how it was simply unbelievable that he would draw his KC with no action time and time again, etc.  I would just agree with him and say things like "what is KC? " and that infuriated him even more!  I guess I never realized there was this sordid underworld of guys who took this so seriously.  I mean, I used to encounter this all the time in poker, but at least money was at stake there...

Sounds like Isotropic had some sort of decline of civility.... 

[dondon151]

Obvious troll is obvious.

I seriously don't understand the other side of the "gg" argument. "gg" has a very literal definition, and I'd think it inappropriate to use when the conditions don't apply. I don't buy the "but that's not what 'gg' means" argument.

[GokoIsGamesThatGoNowhere]

Obvious troll is obvious.

I seriously don't understand the other side of the "gg" argument. "gg" has a very literal definition, and I'd think it inappropriate to use when the conditions don't apply. I don't buy the "but that's not what 'gg' means" argument.

What?  "gg" is clearly just a courtesy way of saying "good playing with you".  It's like when you cross paths with someone and say "how's it going?"  and expect them to say "fine".  In truth, you don't give a shit how they are doing and it would be highly annoying if they started ranting about how bad their day has been, because you only made the gesture out of courtesy.  You could go with awkward silence or avoid eye contact and walk the other way, which is the online equivalent of just exiting the game without saying anything, but that would make you an anti-social retard.

[silverspawn]

My opinions

On 3.5: If the game is lagging badly on your turn you shouldn't be obligated to resign unless you're already loosing substantially. You should probably apologise and you definitely shouldn't start a game if you expect to suffer lag like this but, given that games are rated (regardless of how ridiculous the ratings might be) you shouldn't be forced to resign a 50:50 game due to circumstances beyond your control (This is what the wording of your OP implies to me, if that's not the case you might want to change it).

yea, that's what i meant. and as i said within the post, i expected people to disagree using about the same arguments you did. and these are arguments that i can't disproof, because it's a loss-loss situation, and all you can do is decide which loss matters less to you (playing a game with lag/losing a game because of server lags).

The reason I do think that continuing to play is wrong, despite the lags not being your fault, is that it's simply not efficient. If everyone always left games whenever heavy lags occur, personal ratings should stay relatively unchanged on average, beacause the lags should be spread equally. If everyone plays games to their end, the rating is also unaffected, but there will be lot of frustration which simply is not necssary. This is of course a philosophical arguement, not a practical one.

On 6: The thing about saying gg is that people have greatly differing reactions to it. It makes me feel better after a game when my opponent says gg, regardless of the outcome; I assume this is the case for most people as well. Obviously some people are offended by this but I'm almost certain that they are in the minority and furthermore (and I apologise to anyone whom what I'm about to say offends) the people who assume that a winning "gg" is a gloat and get noticeably upset by this are people who I'd rather not play with anyway. So I choose to cater to the feelings of the majority rather than them.

This is definitely the best argumentation I've yet heard for your side. I still disagree though, and I'd make the following point: while it may be true that most people like it if their opponents write gg, there can't be any disadvantage if you only write gg if the losing player does so first. People like you who want to see a gg from their opponent only have to write gg first, and will still get one. As long as there isn't anyone who, after he lost, needs his opponent to write gg first to feel good (which would make no sense whatsoever) this would be the ideal solutions for all sides.

[dondon151]

What?  "gg" is clearly just a courtesy way of saying "good playing with you".  It's like when you cross paths with someone and say "how's it going?"  and expect them to say "fine".  In truth, you don't give a shit how they are doing and it would be highly annoying if they started ranting about how bad their day has been, because you only made the gesture out of courtesy.  You could go with awkward silence or avoid eye contact and walk the other way, which is the online equivalent of just exiting the game without saying anything, but that would make you an anti-social retard.

First of all, I don't see how this example is any more valid than, say, if I went up to someone and told him "your face is ugly" and expect it not to be construed as, quite literally, his face being ugly (i.e., visually repulsive).

Secondly, there are a lot of possible responses other than "fine" to the mundane question of "how's it going?" that are more honest but not overly detailed. It could range anywhere from "great!" to "ehh, okay" to "terrible." There is no false dichotomy of replying with "fine" or being socially retarded.

Then there's this whole argument of "gg" being good manners. Look, if you really want to exhibit good manners, put in the effort to say something more thoughtful (just a little bit!), and maybe empathize with your opponent a little if you just crushed him instead of gloating like you've just snatched candy from a baby with Down syndrome.

[flies]

i think we should just get goko to play the barney song at the end of every game.

[Aidan Millow]

On 6: The thing about saying gg is that people have greatly differing reactions to it. It makes me feel better after a game when my opponent says gg, regardless of the outcome; I assume this is the case for most people as well. Obviously some people are offended by this but I'm almost certain that they are in the minority and furthermore (and I apologise to anyone whom what I'm about to say offends) the people who assume that a winning "gg" is a gloat and get noticeably upset by this are people who I'd rather not play with anyway. So I choose to cater to the feelings of the majority rather than them.

This is definitely the best argumentation I've yet heard for your side. I still disagree though, and I'd make the following point: while it may be true that most people like it if their opponents write gg, there can't be any disadvantage if you only write gg if the losing player does so first. People like you who want to see a gg from their opponent only have to write gg first, and will still get one. As long as there isn't anyone who, after he lost, needs his opponent to write gg first to feel good (which would make no sense whatsoever) this would be the ideal solutions for all sides.

People who would appreciate a gg if it was given don't necessarily 'want' it enough to ask for it. Given that people tend to quit after a couple of seconds one can't really wait if one actually wants to say it.

Then there's this whole argument of "gg" being good manners. Look, if you really want to exhibit good manners, put in the effort to say something more thoughtful (just a little bit!), and maybe empathize with your opponent a little if you just crushed him instead of gloating like you've just snatched candy from a baby with Down syndrome.

Simple courtesies are typically something that requires next to no effort (like saying "fine" is response to "how's it going?") it is obviously nicer to say more but it's quite a lot more effort (again, people quit after a couple of seconds). Less than saying "fine" (ie saying nothing or responding with a grunt) is usually considered rude. Obviously this is different to the first "gg" but I feel that it's still nicer to put in the minimal effort to say "gg" than it is to say nothing.

[silverspawn]

People who would appreciate a gg if it was given don't necessarily 'want' it enough to ask for it. Given that people tend to quit after a couple of seconds one can't really wait if one actually wants to say it.

ok this i don't buy, if you care about getting a gg you don't quit after a few seconds, and if you do, you don't care.

[Aidan Millow]

People who would appreciate a gg if it was given don't necessarily 'want' it enough to ask for it. Given that people tend to quit after a couple of seconds one can't really wait if one actually wants to say it.

ok this i don't buy, if you care about getting a gg you don't quit after a few seconds, and if you do, you don't care.

I'm not actually talking about 'caring.' I'm talking about getting a miniscule warmth inside you and moving on. I only wait a couple of seconds between saying gg and quitting myself.

[Jimmmmm]

I generally say "well done" if I lose and "thanks for the game" if I win. I will occasionally "gg". I may be alone in this, but I generally consider it bad taste to resign when the game is very close to the end anyway.

[Aidan Millow]

Also, there's another item of potential 'bad form' that could be mentioned here.

7: Complaining about luck
Honestly I occasionally do this myself and then usually apologise as I'm sure that it is bad form. It does get frustrating when you lose because of luck but dominion is a game where this happens.

[WanderingWinder]

Obvious troll is obvious.

QFT

[SCSN]

Either way, I think it's wrong to expect your enemy to be okay with you winning, irrespective of how you played, since you can't know how hard he takes the loss. If you really need it, you can silently think gg to yourself.

Of course I expect my opponent to be okay with me winning. If he can't handle a loss he shouldn't be playing.

Why? Because you are congratulating yourself for winning, and even more, you are asking your enemy to agree with you, by writing gg himself.

First and foremost, my opponent is never my enemy. I have come across opponents who are really unpleasant to play with, but I'll just blacklist them and never give them a second thought. Framing your opponent as an enemy and a game as a fight you have to win might well be the cause of this whole antagonistic under-current in your post.

And by saying "gg" I'm not congratulating myself, I'm just shaking your hand out of politeness.

What I mostly do is avoid this situation by leaving early (I tend to resign games >90% when I'm losing)

I think leaving early without saying anything, provided that you have the ability to chat and are not in some sort of multi-game session where it's understood that you meet again right away, is pretty bad, a bit like suddenly turning around and walking away in the middle of a conversation.

I think the problem you are having is that you lack different perspectives. you apparently never lose self-control due to losses - which itself is certainly a good thing -, and you instinctivally expect your opponent to be fine with losing also. However, not everyone will stay as collected as you. I have a history of destroying my headset (which by the way was pretty expensive) twice, and my chair once due to anger after losing sc2 matches. Playing as much as I did has helped a lot to improve my self control, to the point where I am now. But on the way I have learned that you if your opponent is mad after losing, just leave him alone. Expecting anything from him in this moment is short sided, arrogant and very insensitive.

I've played poker professionally for a number of years, during which I've seen more brands and varieties of this sort of behaviour—both in myself and in others—than you can probably imagine. One can see a grown man completely lose his mind when the river brings the Queen rather than the Ace of spades only so many times before you realize how utterly ridiculous it is. I've banged my fist on the table in response to a card I did not like more than once, but decided at some point to stop tolerating this sort of nonsense from myself and instead mock it with playful ridicule, thereby transforming the frustration into laughter, and, over time, gradually reducing its incidence.

Yet where I can definitely sympathize with frustration after losing (especially after losing multiple games in a row), being offended by a simple social nicety that you know is expressed in good faith is so completely incomprehensible to me that I can't help but consider it a maladjustment. If you really can't handle a simple "gg" I recommend as much exposure therapy as possible until it's no longer a big deal to you. I mean, presumably at some point in your life you took the monstrous leap of courage to venture outside of your safe, familiar house, despite the risk of a sudden breeze ruffling your exposed skin in a somewhat unpleasant manner. And, presumably, you derived a number of great, unanticipated benefits from this daring adventure—and if not, at least your skin grew slightly thicker.

[dondon151]

Also, there's another item of potential 'bad form' that could be mentioned here.

7: Complaining about luck
Honestly I occasionally do this myself and then usually apologise as I'm sure that it is bad form. It does get frustrating when you lose because of luck but dominion is a game where this happens.

I think it's fine to complain about luck when it's justified and when it's kind of tongue in cheek. It's certainly possible to point out bad luck without strongly complaining about it.

Yet where I can definitely sympathize with frustration after losing (especially after losing multiple games in a row), being offended by a simple social nicety that you know is expressed in good faith is so completely incomprehensible to me that I can't help but consider it a maladjustment. If you really can't handle a simple "gg" I recommend as much exposure therapy as possible until it's no longer a big deal to you.

The problem here is that some people actually can't handle it for whatever psychological reason. Telling someone to deal with a parting remark is in some cases almost like telling someone to stop being depressed.

What bothers me about the whole "gg" issue isn't the perception that the victor is gloating, but the application of the adjective "good" to games that could not be considered as such.

[() | (_) ^/]

gg

[KingZog3]

gg

How could you... after all this discussion. I didn't say gg first.

[Kirian]

gg

How could you... after all this discussion. I didn't say gg first.

Obviously, he lost the discussion.

[Kirian]

Obvious troll is obvious.

QFT

There are at least two trolls in the thread.  Much different styles though.

Edit: also I suppose this depends on your definition of troll.