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Author Topic: The closest thing I've ever seen to a Vineyards Rush  (Read 1012 times)

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The closest thing I've ever seen to a Vineyards Rush
« on: March 02, 2012, 08:44:46 pm »
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Vineyards games usually don't end nearly as quickly as Workshop-Silk Roads or Gardens games because 1) Vineyards potion costs prevents gaining the VP card/buying more than one typically, 2) The primary gain is actions, meaning you usually try and fine-tune an engine that takes a bit longer to set up but ultimately is stronger.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/02/game-20120302-143341-0d00c7ad.html

Now, my opponent was a bit of a village idiot, and because of that helped me 3pile slightly by buying 4 Worker's Villages. Regardless, 3piling out in 11 turns seems ridiculously quick for a non-mirror (I had 25/30 of the 3-pile cards).
 
Unfortunately this seems to be more of a confluence of a ridiculous amount of Vineyards-Friendly cards, rather than one simple combo:

Chapel-- You really don't want much money in vineyards games, and cantrip actions go well in high density
Talisman- Since Vineyards wants a lot of Actions more than a lot of VP cards, Talisman works much more effectively in Vineyards than Gardens or Silk Roads
Workers Village- Goes well with Courtyard and provides the vital +buys to make the rush work (both to amass 6-action buy phases and to buy multiple Vineyards)
Courtyard/Wishing Well-Allows me to draw my deck, but also are CHEAP actions allowing me to grab 6 actions only with two buys and C-C-C-Talisman-Talisman
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PerdHapley

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Re: The closest thing I've ever seen to a Vineyards Rush
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 10:00:50 pm »
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Yeah, this is pretty much a dream Vineyard set, and you played it well. The speed of the game doesn't really surprise me - Worker's Village is probably as good an early Talisman target as it gets for this kind of rush outside of Pawn and Hamlet. I suspect your opponent hadn't really seen this before and won't make the same mistake again.

I have two questions about this setup for anyone with experience or simulator knowledge: one, Talisman seems like a given, but is Chapel always correct as an opening buy here? Part of me would be tempted to go Chancellor and sacrifice some light early trashing in the hopes of ideally drawing Chancellor/Talisman/Copper turn 3 or 4, shuffling another two talismans into the deck and then clearing out worker's villages 2-3 at a time as early as turn 4, picking up a chapel with a spare buy in between going for WVs and Vineyards (and after picking up a couple courtyards) when you can use it effectively to trim without giving up buying power. Is this misguided?

And also, if you were hypothetically against a strong player pursuing the same strategy, is it the right play to wait so long to pick up potions? Turn 10 is perfectly reasonable here where there's no challenge for the Vineyard pile, but how do you prioritize buys here if your opponent is eyeing them too?
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RisingJaguar

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Re: The closest thing I've ever seen to a Vineyards Rush
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 10:24:15 pm »
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When the game is built like this, with cheap cheap cantrips and even more so with talismans, earlier than turn 10 for sure. He's 4 cards away from being 3 piled, and almost did by his opponent (if he was even looking). 

If the game is more built by a strong engine, then there's more time you can wait, since the engine is gonna provide benefits long-term (like one with a strong attack). 

But yeah, I wouldn't have been shocked if someone bought it on T3/4 if this was a competitive match.  The worker's village makes it waaaaaay too easy.
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