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[engineer]

I play Dominion both IRL and online.  I prefer games IRL, but I love the added strategy that I see in online games because of the dominion point counter chrome extension.  With this extension, in isotropic games, every player knows everybody's score and card count.  This means you can tell when you are ahead or behind by just a point, or when your gardens deck is 49 cards and you can actually win the game by buying out the last curse.

So, I have a very simple question.  Has anybody come up with a good way to keep track of this type of information for IRL games?

Obviously, for games with vanilla victory cards, you can keep score with pen and paper (or a cribbage board), but that breaks down for gardens/vineyards/etc.  I have found a couple of android apps for keeping track of state, but the only one that seems decent costs money and only tracks victory cards, which is ok but not great.  Has anybody found a better solution?

[dondon151]

So, I have a very simple question.  Has anybody come up with a good way to keep track of this type of information for IRL games?

First of all, in the specific case of Gardens, you can count the number of cards in your deck and discard pile. That's allowed by the rules. You're not allowed to look through either, and I'm fairly certain that you can't count others' decks and discard piles.

For other alt VP, it's an exercise in memorization mostly. In a 2-player game, you can keep track of all splits fairly trivially. With more players, typically there is one opponent that is doing better (or, if you're losing, that you can catch up to more easily) than the other, and you can pay closer attention to what he gets. Keeping track of each player's starting cards is helpful too; knowing how many of their starting Coppers and Estates that they've trashed can be instrumental in determining, for instance, whether to break PPR.

Donald has been pretty firm about his stance that using aids to keep track of the game state like this is not officially permissible according to the rulebook...

[ftl]

You can't count the number of cards in your discard pile; since it's face-up, there's no real way to do that without looking. You can't count your opponent's deck.

[engineer]

Donald has been pretty firm about his stance that using aids to keep track of the game state like this is not officially permissible according to the rulebook...

Really?  The comment that I saw in this thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2707.75) makes me think that Donald and I see eye to eye here: if everybody wants to keep score, then it's a variant, not cheating.

When all players agree to a variant - such as taking notes - that's not cheating, it's a variant. I have said this many times, and reference it in the bit you quoted. Taking notes is cheating though if any player has not agreed to it. Hope this is clear!

By the way, if you haven't tried it with your friends, then I do recommend it -- it adds some fun strategy such as the example above, and it also helps everybody to learn faster from each IRL game.

[Thisisnotasmile]

When I play Dominion I like to play Dominion, not data entry on my phone. Just my opinion.

[Jfrisch]

@people snarking about the point counter. If everyone agrees to some form of point counting and, given that these people are playing IRL I would assume that they all agree. What in the world is the harm in it? Maybe YOU prefer to play without the point counter because you like the memory aspect/find it a hassle/ would rather play closer to the rules than a variant. But if his/her group is fine with it does it really matter?
TL:DR: Donald X said that if a group is all okay with a variant, it's fine to use it, otherwise standard rules should apply. We are in the former situation here...

[engineer]

@Jfrisch: Thank you.

If somebody has an answer to my question, please let me know.  Those looking to engage in a philosophical debate about the validity or utility of point counters need not apply.  You can start your own thread about that.

[dondon151]

You can't count the number of cards in your discard pile; since it's face-up, there's no real way to do that without looking. You can't count your opponent's deck.

I don't actually remember what the rulebook has to say about this (I just take Philosopher's Stone discard-counting clause for granted), but can't you just... flip your discard pile over and count it...?

[engineer]

You can't count the number of cards in your discard pile; since it's face-up, there's no real way to do that without looking. You can't count your opponent's deck.

I don't actually remember what the rulebook has to say about this (I just take Philosopher's Stone discard-counting clause for granted), but can't you just... flip your discard pile over and count it...?

The rules for Phil Stone actually specifically state that you can look at the cards in your discard pile when using this card.  You gotta give Donald credit -- he's very thorough.