Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ozle]

Yeah that confused me. I'd suggest this is a "submersible probe" we are sending. I can't imagine it's something like a submarine.

Besides, look at all the vehicles/satellites we have around earth and we hardly have any clue what's under the surface of the oceans. How much harder is it to land there. We've already done flybys.

Agreed, deep sea exploration is higher on my list as well.

More chance of finding new life forms near the ocean vents I believe!

Exploring Titan's oceans is just really, really deep sea exploration.

So why not do it on Earth at a tiny fraction of the cost?

[Ozle]

For the record, its this one mission I am currently talking about, I think its a waste of money that could be spent better elsewhere (Not limited to putting people on Mars)


For those people in favour of this mission because of the research and science value....what if it could be done by a probe? At a fraction of the cost. I'd be in favour of that.

The probe has already been done, almost ten years ago.

The problem here is twofold.  First, which science is best?  Man, that's a difficult question to answer.  Is any given ten million dollars best spent on space exploration, on genetic research, on low carbon energy technology, on high energy physics, on geochemistry?  What makes one scientific endeavor worthy and another unworthy?  When it comes to basic research, the benefits are entirely incalculable; there can be no cost/benefit analysis.  So scientists make their case as best they can for funding their projects over other projects.

The second problem sends this to RSP, but I feel pretty strongly about it.  Choosing to send a $40 million mission to Titan is not what's holding us back technologically.  Choosing to spend 1.7 trillion fucking dollars a year fighting each other is what's holding us back technologically.

The human race will not reach its actual potential until we stop spending money to literally kill each other.  The Iraq war alone could have paid to put a colony on Mars.

A) Precisely on the probe

B) I agree, but I do not believe this science is worth the 20 years plus however much money it is, one of those others IS more worthy in my view, thats the point.

C) The is it worth spending science money on other topics completely is a different subject here, if you could make another thread for that I'd happily contribute. This is comparing useful science against frivolous (in my view) science.

D) what if our potential is to kill each other though? Went to a fascinating lecture once that included the reason we have encountered no other races is that the predatory nature of animals means that any sufficently advanced race will kill itself. But that is also a different topic

[Marcory]

Another issue is the billions we're currently spending on the ISS and other near-earth human exploration. For that matter, Nasa is spending billions reinventing the Apollo mission--Ares/Orion/Constellation is basically Apollo with fancier computers. This money would be much better spent on unmanned research.

We're not getting to Mars until someone invents a Star Trek-type deflector shield, which is more of a theoretical problem at present than an engineering one; otherwise, the cost of radiation shielding for a manned Mars mission is prohibitive, to say nothing of the fact that we have yet to build a self-sustaining human habitat even in the Arizona desert, much less under the sea or in Earth orbit.

Plus, if you're going to send a probe to Titan for $1.5 billion  (that's what the launch/operational cost of Cassini-Huygens was in today's dollars, roughly), you might as well spend a little more to build a fancier probe. So the sub, if it proves feasible and can do as much as its promoters claim, make more sense than an atmospheric probe.
In the meantime, there's a chance that life could exist in one of the oceans on Jupiter or Saturn's moons. This Titan submarine could also be adapted to Europa or Ganymede if successful.

[enfynet]

As an additional point; deep exploration on Titan could give us the answers we need to either pursue or cut back on extra-solar planetary life searches.

[Burning Skull]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

[Kirian]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

It's a scam.

[Witherweaver]

As an additional point; deep exploration on Titan could give us the answers we need to either pursue or cut back on extra-solar planetary life searches.

Also: there could potentially be gnarly waves to catch.

[Burning Skull]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

It's a scam.

A small, romantic and fragile part of me still wants to believe it is not.

[Kirian]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

It's a scam.

A small, romantic and fragile part of me still wants to believe it is not.

I know, right?  Alas.

[Witherweaver]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

It's a scam.

A small, romantic and fragile part of me still wants to believe it is not.

I know, right?  Alas.

I don't know, I heard the company behind it was called Rekall, so it sounds legit.

[Kirian]

By the way, what are community thoughts on Mars One project?

It's a scam.

A small, romantic and fragile part of me still wants to believe it is not.

I know, right?  Alas.

I don't know, I heard the company behind it was called Rekall, so it sounds legit.

Cue picture of Buzz Aldrin wearing his "Get your ass to Mars" shirt.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Unpopular opinion time!!!

Mars is a pretty crappy planet. It's too small to hold a proper atmosphere. It's a dusty, red, barren, rock with stupid-looking moons. The main reason we're so gung-ho about it is because of convenience.

Personally, I have no intention of emigrating to Mars. It's just a worse version of Earth. Instead, I'll wait for them to work out the kinks with the Mars program. And then jump on the next wagon train to Jupiter or Saturn: the true majestic capitals of our Solar System. Prime location, limitless energy and abundant natural resources. By the 22nd century Mars will become a 4th world ghetto.

Source: Future Wikipedia

Titan is one of the most interesting places in the solar system, for the following one reason: the combination of low gravity and thick atmosphere means a human could strap on a wing suit and flap around. This is a worthwhile pursuit. Also, it seems to have very interesting geological and chemical features which could be a promise of life, and at least worthy of further investigation. More promising than Mars anyway. Not to mention that recent news about a warm water ocean on Enceladus, also orbiting Saturn!

And also in the future, we'll mostly be transferring our consciousness into robotic avatars anyway; it's a bit wasteful to send needy water sacs into space. "Ugghh, you just breathed 5 minutes ago you bloated sack of protoplasm! And how many intestines do you seriously need??"






(Take this all with a grain of salt. It's half-true, but I'll be just as thrilled about the inevitable Mars landing as anyone!)

[pacovf]

Personally, I have no intention of emigrating to Mars. It's just a worse version of Earth. Instead, I'll wait for them to work out the kinks with the Mars program. And then jump on the next wagon train to Jupiter or Saturn: the true majestic capitals of our Solar System.

I assume you mean their moons? It's kinda hard to survive on planets that don't have a surface...

Titan is one of the most interesting places in the solar system, for the following one reason: the combination of low gravity and thick atmosphere means a human could strap on a wing suit and flap around. This is a worthwhile pursuit

Where have I read that before...? 

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Surfaces are of no concern to space whale avatars