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Messages - BubbleBoy

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51
Rules Questions / Black Market + Mandarin
« on: June 02, 2012, 09:45:15 am »
I recently discovered what I think is a way to play any number of Treasures twice (although the combo can only be used once per game and only with the right luck): Play Black Market, play all the money in your hand, buy the revealed Mandarin, and use drawing actions to get the top-decked Treasures back. So would this combo allow you to get twice the value from the same Treasure cards? If so, then is there a more reliable/reusable way to do this?

52
Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Base Gold Image Released
« on: May 30, 2012, 02:01:26 pm »
I am quite aware. But still, I wouldn't be bothered by a silver-bordered Silver or a copper-bordered Copper.

53
Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Base Gold Image Released
« on: May 30, 2012, 12:57:34 pm »
The pictures look really nice, but I'm a bit sceptical about how they work out in practice. I mean, the reduced design of the 'old' cards does have its use, and it could be a bit of a visual overkill with all those big graphics lurking around.
I was worried about the same thing when I heard that the images would have art from the top bar to the bottom. And if the images were busier, like Feast's or something, that might be a problem. However, the Gold and the Duchy that I've seen have each used a very small range of colors and aren't too distracting, so I don't think visual overkill will be a problem. That being said, I'm now wondering whether Silver will have a silver border...

I am 99% certain it won't.
Why not? I guess it could be confusing for brand new players, but I don't expect too many brand new players to be buying the Base Cards set anyway.

54
Dominion General Discussion / Re: New Base Gold Image Released
« on: May 30, 2012, 12:20:02 pm »
The pictures look really nice, but I'm a bit sceptical about how they work out in practice. I mean, the reduced design of the 'old' cards does have its use, and it could be a bit of a visual overkill with all those big graphics lurking around.
I was worried about the same thing when I heard that the images would have art from the top bar to the bottom. And if the images were busier, like Feast's or something, that might be a problem. However, the Gold and the Duchy that I've seen have each used a very small range of colors and aren't too distracting, so I don't think visual overkill will be a problem. That being said, I'm now wondering whether Silver will have a silver border...

55
Game Reports / Re: Behold the POWER of Scout!
« on: May 29, 2012, 02:29:59 pm »
The problem with Scout/Great Hall is that you need to throw money in with that combo, which conflicts with Scout's drawing. On the other hand, I would expect to see greater success with Scout/Harem strategies, because increasing your buying power can increase your drawing power at the same time. (Also, using JUST Harems for money is very effective: $4, buy a Scout; $6, buy a Harem; $8+, buy a Province.)

56
I'm disappointed to see the classic Gold instead of the new one.

57
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 14, 2012, 06:58:20 pm »
For the most part, I made those Victory cards because they seemed like they should be. Aristocrat is similar to Nobles, and Bounty is a reward - a status symbol. I suppose making them more powerful instead of giving them VP wouldn't really change the strategy of them too much, but I would contend that this is also true of Nobles and Island, if not of other half-Victory cards out there.

That being said, I actually did put some thought into Aristocrat's VP half. You see, I didn't want it to be too easily stackable, so I wanted it to do something other than the Action part of it. Thus, I increased the price and gave it VP, to prevent possible breaking issues.

Actually, I also put some thought into Bounty's Victory half as well, but that was before a significant change in the ability; at first, Bounty said something more like, "When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card in your hand." In that case, the Victory part of it was very significant, because it could count other copies of itself. But I decided I didn't like that version, so I changed the ability to something that coincided better with the theme of this expansion. However, I kept the Victory half, partially to balance it, partially because it seemed appropriate, and partially because I felt like the set was short on Victory cards.

58
Seems to me like Golem would be affected least. It tosses aside the Curses in your deck when you use it.

59
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Interesting Potion Ideas
« on: May 11, 2012, 10:48:49 am »
This card turns Apprentice into 3 Labs, a Salvager into 2 Barons, a Remodel into an immediate Province...ect.
And it costs $4P. It's definitely not too easy to set up these combos IMO. However, I think the replay ability is a bit too much, partially because mega-Cursing isn't cool and partially because I would like there to be some incentive for players to gain multiple copies of this.

60
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Interesting Potion Ideas
« on: May 10, 2012, 08:23:03 am »
Assistant looks fun but probably needs to be 4P or 5P.  It is flexible, and choosing "Action, card, card" means drawing Assistant is the equivalent of drawing 2 Labs.  A comparison to Golem becomes apt.

You can't choose +card with Assistant.

That said, the flexibility makes it far superior to Market, but just how much better is the question. If it's not a whole lot better, then $3P is probably a good price. The trashing option will become relatively useless at $4P because it takes so long to get this card - compare it to something like Upgrade, which most players would pay $5 for during the first reshuffle but probably not afterwards.

I also feel like this card has a bit of Grand Market syndrome; that is, once you get 1, it becomes much easier to get more, but getting the first one requires a bit of luck.
Options include: Market, Bazaar, optimized Conspirator, Worker's Village, and much, much more. That flexibility should probably increase the cost now that I think about it. Originally, I did not have the mandatory +1 Card on there, and I'm thinking it was more balanced that way, because it isn't always a guaranteed cantrip. The thing is hard to price no matter what, though.

0pp is a bad idea imo, it runs against the philosophy of potions.  Potion collision is supposed to be the key discouragement against massing Familiars or Apothecaries or Alchemists, etc.  Putting a safety net for Potion collision on the board will make those kinds of cards too powerful, unless your 0pp card is so weak that it can't be purchased as the only potion card on the board.
Well, in most games I've played recently, when there is a Potion-cost card on a board it's usually alone, and I kept that in mind when making this. Maybe it shakes up the philosophy of Potions a bit, but that was my goal. Playtesting may prove this to be too powerful, but I think it's usually going to be too huge a risk to really attract players.

Necromancer is certainly interesting.  I want to draw that guy alongside a Watchtower ;)
Yeah, I'm almost certain there is breaking potential here. There is, however, a cursing limit equal to your hand size, so hopefully that will keep this card in balance most games.

Ale seems to be quite strong at $2P but at the same time its potential to be a good BM enabler is massively weakened by the $P cost, and we all know that Potion cost cards are generally terrible in BM with a few exceptions. Still, it feels like a stronger Embassy.
Well, keep in mind that it's a Duration, meaning it can't cycle through your deck very well (especially not if you have a lot of these).

61
Variants and Fan Cards / Interesting Potion Ideas
« on: May 10, 2012, 12:28:22 am »
Just a slush of ideas I had trying to make Potions a little more interesting. Comments and suggestions welcome and appreciated! :)

Ale
+5 Cards
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand.
($2P Action Duration)

(Ale's great, but too many can give you quite a hangover.)

Assistant
+1 Card
Choose three: +1 Action; +$1; +1 Potion; +1 Buy; Trash a card from your hand.
(Choices may be repeated.)
($3P Action)

(Sort of a super-Pawn with more flexibility. I don't think it's too much like Pawn, either, since the results will be drastically improved and actually useful.)

Elixir
When you play this, choose one: +$1; or +1 Potion.
-----
When you discard this from your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 Card.
($1P Treasure Reaction)

(If I understand the rules correctly, you could just keep this card in your hand until the end of your turn, reveal it during cleanup, and get an extra card for next turn. I hope that works, because I designed this with that strategic option in mind. Also, this soft counters discarding attacks and combos in general with cards that discard from your hand.)

Medicine Merchant
+1 Buy
You may discard a Potion from your hand. If you do, +$6. Otherwise, gain a Potion into your hand.
($0PP Action)

(This costs TWO Potions, not just one. It works a lot like a super Baron, but with Potions, making it higher risk and higher reward.)

Necromancer
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing no more than the trashed card, and you may gain a non-Victory card from the Trash pile. If you gained a Curse card, each other player gains a Curse card and you may play this again.
($4P Action Attack)

(This is sort of meant to combo with Magic Charm from this thread, which was previously named Necromancer. I tried very hard to find a balanced card that could fish from the trash pile, and I think this is about as good as it gets: The best use you will most likely be able to make of this card is to trash your best card from your hand and double gain it back, but it can have better uses if people are having fun trashing good cards for benefits.)

62
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Create a card inspired by another game
« on: May 09, 2012, 09:36:16 pm »
Windfall World
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may return a Windfall token. If you do, +3 Cards.
-----
When you gain this, take a Windfall token.
$5 Action

Race for the Galaxy tribute.

63
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 08, 2012, 04:00:04 pm »
Okay, so Potions are more strategic than I thought. I suppose it might even be interesting to fit them into this set, since they are a different type of Treasure that could interact well with some of these cards. However, I would really want to do something new with them. I'll seriously consider the idea.

Whoa, just because Potions aren't pointless doesn't mean your fan expansion needs Potion-cost cards. I don't really understand this need some people have to include all existing mechanics in their own expansion. Then in order for someone to use your expansion, they need to own, or at least understand, all of the official expansions.
Oh, okay, then I hate Potions again! >:( >:( >:(

But seriously, I was considering adding Potions even before I started thinking up these card ideas, because it adds more Treasure variety. I had a couple of rough ideas in the works, too, but they weren't interesting enough in my mind for me to justify adding them to the set, due to my general hatred of Potions. Now, I'm thinking maybe they were interesting enough (thus, my seemingly sudden mood swing), but I've decided now that I will save them for another time, mainly because this set is already so large and may very well get trimmed a card or two as is (and also for the reason you mentioned).

64
Dominion Articles / Re: Request: Farmland
« on: May 08, 2012, 11:26:02 am »
If you go for Farmland like crazy, you can turn your Farmland into a Province every time you buy Farmland, essentially turning all but a couple of your Farmlands into $6 Provinces. I've never actually tried this and it probably doesn't work very well, but it's an option.

Farmland can work well with a strategy that takes advantage of green cards, particularly Silk Road and Crossroads. But usually, I've found that Farmland doesn't work super well in any particular strategy. A move I like to make with it late-game when I have $9 is buy it and then turn a Gold into a Province, getting you 2 VP more than just buying a Province. That's the best use I've ever made of it.

65
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 07, 2012, 09:46:45 pm »
Okay, so Potions are more strategic than I thought. I suppose it might even be interesting to fit them into this set, since they are a different type of Treasure that could interact well with some of these cards. However, I would really want to do something new with them. I'll seriously consider the idea.

66
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 07, 2012, 05:01:09 pm »
Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card.

Well, that's not really accurate. Mainly, a Potion in the cost of a card severely throttles the rate at which you can gain copies of the card. It's a good way to balance cards that are extremely powerful especially in large quantities.
What does putting a Potion in the cost do that adding $2, $3, or $4 couldn't do just as well?

67
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 06, 2012, 10:58:34 pm »
To be clear, you gain a Debt everytime you play Spendthrift? Not just on gain?
You do NOT gain a Debt when you gain Spendthrift, ONLY (and always) when you play it.

68
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 06, 2012, 10:10:01 pm »
Did I tell you that I really like Debt and King? Good Ideas  :).
I don't know about Wealth, though. I think its overpriced. Mabye $5?
Thanks. :)
And I think Wealth would be underpriced at $5, since it's usually going to be better than Laboratory.

69
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 06, 2012, 09:49:08 pm »
Well, if that wasn't a rhetorical question, I suppose I'll answer it: I hate Potions for a number of reasons, but mainly because I think they are unbalanced. Let's say my opponent and I both open Potion/Silver. On turn 3, my opponent has 3+P and buys Familiar. On turn 3, I have 2+P and buy...Pearl Diver. Good game.

Also, there's really nothing the current Potion-cost cards do that can't be done on a non-potion-cost card. I suppose if I were to make any more potion-cost cards, they would have to have some sort of special function that could make use of their potion cost. Off the top of my head, the only effect I can think of is something that allows you to specifically trash or otherwise target a Potion for benefit.

Besides, Potions don't really fit into an expansion named "Finance."

70
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 06, 2012, 06:22:30 pm »
What do you think about putting a limit of "costing $7 or less" on Bank Note? I would still want it to combo with Bank, simply because of its name, but I agree that doubling Platinums with it could get shaky.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the wording on Cathedral. I'm leaning towards just keeping it the way it is and explaining how to deal with it in the rule book.

I've been pondering Feudal Village more than any other card. It is by far the strangest of these cards in my mind. How about an effect more like this: "+1 Card, +2 Actions, Each other player draws up to 6 cards in hand, reveals his hand, and discards a Reaction or Attack card of your choice (except Feudal Village)."

I also like Hideaway. :)

I will change Investigator as suggested, thanks.

Yes, Investment is permanent. The original version let you trash it to gain a Gold, but that was found to never really be used (and was used a bit too much when it gained into hand), so that was taken off.

I tried to design King in such a way that you couldn't win with just BM and King. I've thought about this a good bit, though, and I think there is a bit too much of a change in value from King to King. Maybe 2 VP for every 6+X Treasures would work better? That's a bit chunky though, and requires you to keep close track of your Kings and Treasures to be used effectively.

Knight CAN be used in any game if you buy your Curses, but in that case it would be even less popular. It's true that for the most part you probably only want one per game, but its demand varies highly depending on the set. Also, when has the Outpost pile ever run out?

Since Lost Fortune uses a wording that has never really been used before, I think I will get to make my own rules for it. I will try to clearly explain how to play this when I write the rule book. However, maybe it would be clearer if the $ punishment were reworded as a "while this in in play" clause (and the next turn reward were $4).

The biggest downside to Magistrate is that it doesn't really stack at all. Most of the time, you can only use the Attack part of it once in a turn. Also, you are required to discard a Treasure card from your hand in order to use it, which can make it dead in a lot of hands depending on your deck (and what you choose to trash with it). One use it can always have is to discard your Treasure card to get the money back from it, basically playing the Treasure during your turn, which can be fun, but is probably not worth $5.

Yeah, Merchant definitely goes well with Horn of Plenty and Lost Fortune and things, but that's part of the point: It isn't supposed to work well with just BM, but it goes nicely in a more interesting deck.

Pub may get bogged down when greening, but why are you greening when you have Pub? You should just be getting VP tokens by trashing your Silvers, then buying those Silvers back to do it again next turn. However, a more important issue (also an issue with Alms, especially with Lost Fortune) is how to treat the trashed Treasure: After a bit of thinking and reviewing of the current rules, I say that the effect of a Treasure card trashed from play should remain, since the benefit of a Treasure card is gained when you play it, not by having it in play. Lost Fortune's next turn effect would cease to take place in this case. The way I would suggest keeping track of this is the same way I keep track of Mining Village: Turn the trashed card sideways now and don't put it in the trash pile until after your turn.

Debt was meant to purchasable. I thought that was made clear enough by the "When you buy this" clause on it, as well as the "Add Debt to the Supply" clause on Spendthrift. And yes, you are obligated to gain Debt when you are being forced to gain a Curse card and there are no more Curses, although I expect this will rarely happen, since Debt can be a pretty attractive purchase/Spendthrift gain, and Curses seldom run out anyway.

Spendthrift originally did give $4, but I felt like that was too much, not only because that's immediately almost as good as Platinum (and Curse cards are often easy to get rid of anyway), but also because I didn't want Debts to be emptied too quickly. That's one of the reasons I'm seriously considering increasing the number of Debts available in each game.

I don't know if Spendthrift and Debt should be unlinked, but I'll think about that...

And yes, Town is a lot like Pawn, but it has obvious and significant differences, most importantly stackability and the +2 Actions option, my original intent for this card being to act as a Village that didn't bunch up. I used to have it just give +2 Actions and +1 Buy,  and no choices. Do you like that better?

Thanks for your input! I hope it improves the output. I should start making the images for these cards pretty soon. I guess I'll start with the boring ones that nobody is talking about. :P

71
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Finance (Untested)
« on: May 05, 2012, 08:53:57 pm »
This is so balanced I have trouble believing it's untested.  Good job.  Looks fun too.
Thanks. Though this is mostly untested, I have spent quite a bit of time comparing these cards to existing ones, weighing different possible interactions, attempting to formulate broken combos, etc. So I've gone as far as I can to test these cards just using my mind. I'm sure that if/when I actually test these, some broken elements will emerge, but until then, I think these are about as good as I can make them.

72
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card idea: Circe
« on: May 05, 2012, 11:57:34 am »
This is quite similar to Shanty Town, except the +2 Actions part is what depends on your hand. I think I would prefer Shanty Town in most cases.

73
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Multi Player Collusion
« on: May 03, 2012, 04:38:32 pm »
The problem with most of the proposed collusion strategies in official games is that the person helping his partner typically does so at his own expense, or non-bidirectionally, with the clearest exceptions being Spy-type cards and Swindler. But since so many strategies interact only with the player to your immediate left (or right), a side-by-side 2v2 game seems quite interesting.

74
Help! / Re: Identical strategy. How did I lose?
« on: May 03, 2012, 12:39:05 pm »
A plus to Village/Monument is that you can just buy copies of those two cards and Hunting Parties and you never have to worry about a Silver clogging up your engine.
Right. But it's sort of difficult to actually make it to $5. Let alone $8.
When you play Monument the first time, I think it's quite likely that it will come with 3 Coppers. If not, buy another Monument or Village. It should not be hard to get to $5 fairly quickly - by turn 5 at most, I would say.

75
Help! / Re: Identical strategy. How did I lose?
« on: May 03, 2012, 11:30:01 am »
A plus to Village/Monument is that you can just buy copies of those two cards and Hunting Parties and you never have to worry about a Silver clogging up your engine.

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