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2651

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Wikipedia needs a reference

« on: September 09, 2012, 12:26:33 pm »

Or you know, just get a sane policy on citation?

Yeah, apparently authors even need secondary sources to decide details about their own books:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/09/09/philip-roth-spars-with-wikipedia-via-the-new-yorker/

2652

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Beggar is pretty good

« on: September 08, 2012, 11:06:19 pm »

Haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking it might be good with Mercenary if you have the spare actions. Mercenary is kinda dead later in the game if you have no junk to trash, and Beggar brings trashing targets right to your hand.

2653

General Discussion / Re: Anti-Joke Thread

« on: September 08, 2012, 12:25:35 am »

Two lawyers are driving in a Mustang convertible when they hit a patch of gravel and swerve off of a bridge and into a ravine. What's the worst part?

They were my friends and I cared about them deeply

2654

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 11:56:50 pm »

All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy.  Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone?  Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?

Am I missing something? How is this not obvious? You saying Jorbles is innocent makes perfect sense if he's scum as well.

There's no point fakeclaiming cop unless you expect people to believe you. That's the general purpose of a lie, to convince people of a falsehood. If we do believe you, once you've then tricked the town into confirming you as town, your scumbuddy rides along for free, and we're guaranteed not to lynch scum.

Nothing Frisk has said has changed my mind in the slightest. He's resorting to bullying and intimidation at this point (to use some of the nicer words that apply). Complaining about the case or lack thereof on him yesterday is distracting and completely moot. There is a case now and it's pretty damn good.

At least he's trying to string together long analysis posts; he won't go down without a fight. Jorbles is barely keeping his head above water while the cases on him and Frisk build, and he's not saying much of anything.

Eevee, your recent post confuses me as well, and I'm having real trouble following your logic. If it's true that your girlfriend was bringing a party back to your place, how does this lead to the conclusion that going to sleep is the correct play here? Surely you would have considered joining the party as a viable option. This type of play strikes me as highly suspicious. Talk about not sharing my win condition.

2655

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 05:51:39 pm »

I would not read too much into Jorbles supporting a frisk lynch. He knows if he looks like he's defending frisk the game is over.

2656

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 05:18:59 pm »

Frisk, what's your breakdown of most likely scum pairs? I know you said me and ashersky, but any others? And do you have a response for my explanation of why I think others should find that unlikely?

2657

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 04:32:39 pm »

I like Eevee's analysis here.

I don't know if there's much to say about the me/ashersky possibility except that I really was trying to lynch him after Frisk claimed yesterday (and thought we did after misreading the prior few pages). I actually voted Jorbles first as my scummier read, and then switched to ashersky when I thought his lynch might have a chance to go through. Can't think of any reason I'd do that if I were scum with ashersky.

That leaves Frisk/Jorbles, which has been my best guess for most of the day. I'm quite willing to lynch him if Eevee, Voltaire and ashersky are on board.

2658

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 07, 2012, 02:47:28 pm »

To me, it doesn't look like another vote (since it says 7 in front of his votes) but rather some ability lynching the guy with the most votes.
Also remember we probably have multiple scum factions.

It wasn't deadline yet, and there is no plurality vote rule.

Well, what I was saying is that I think an ability changed that.

vote Morgrim

I feel like an ability like that would have to be one-shot or it'd be stupidly powerful. In which case why waste it on this situation?

2659

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 07, 2012, 01:27:32 pm »

I'd be willing to switch my vote potentially, but I'd like to see if Morgrim has anything to say. He hasn't commented since the wagon took off.

For all I know, he'll probably just hammer anyway.

2660

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 01:24:57 pm »

I like where we're going with the methodical scumpairhunting. I'll be gone for a few hours, but in the meantime I'd like responses to a few comments I made earlier. I know it hasn't been long so I understand if you haven't gotten a chance to answer, but I don't want them to get buried under other discussion.

Jorbles, please respond to this:

That was not apparent by your vote, as I explained. We've been in D3 for barely an rl day and you put Frisk at L-2, which at this point sets us up to lose if you're wrong since mafia can do a 1-2 quickhammer. This is very risky, unless you happen to know for certain exactly who is mafia.

Now, I don't think there's much risk of that happening now, but at the time it was very unwise if you are indeed town.

A couple more questions:

You ended D2 without voting. Who would you have voted for and why?

If Eevee is indeed Frisk's scumpartner, why do you think he so ready to lynch him at the end of D2 before Frisk claimed?

And Eevee, please respond to both parts of this:

Note, I also was ready to lynch ashersky at the deadline on D2, as were you and Voltaire for the most part. I used this as evidence to mostly clear you and Voltaire if ashersky was scum, but then since those were all his possible partners (since he being scum => Frisk & Jorbles are town), this led me to believe Frisk and Jorbles is a likely team. You're not willing to follow this argument, or even comment on it as far as I can tell.

Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?

I don't follow this either. Frisk dying tonight would mean Frisk is town. I am town, so if you lynch me today, and Frisk dies tonight we lose.

2661

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 01:17:28 pm »

Something like having 3 PR's by accident.

Also, I'll need to read your list a bit more carefully later, but for now I think you can also cross out 4. If asher is scum, Jorbles is confirmed town by Frisk.

2662

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 01:14:52 pm »

Yes, I think we should accept that either you or ashersky, is scum.

The both theory coming from you boggles my mind, but seems too risky as it means suicide for one of you, and going down 3-1 or 4-1 tomorrow.

2663

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 12:27:25 pm »

Any of us could be the missing jailkeeper (I really believe there is one).

If you really believe there's a jailkeeper, why are you pushing for my lynch instead of ashersky??

2664

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 12:25:29 pm »

Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?

Wait, how are you getting this? I don't see that at all.

Note: excluding all bussing evidence for now.

I'm town. Jorbles is town if Frisk is town. Ashersky and Frisk can't both be town or both be mafia.

Ashersky's possible partners: Cuzz or Voltaire. Cuzz has played scummy, Voltaire has the Morgrim-meta that makes him look towny.

Frisk's possible partners: Jorbles (unlikely but possible), Cuzz, Voltaire.

Town read on Volt and Frisk clearing his scumbuddy would be so weird it almost deserves a win -> Cuzz is very likely scum either way. I feel moronic for derailing his lynch yesterday..

Next up: rereading in light of this new information. I encourage others to do the same.

I'm not really following this. We know Frisk or ashersky is scum, and you're assuming I'm the scumbuddy of either of them? Can you do me a favor and read over my play on D2 again? I pushed hard for a Frisk lynch. This was not a mild vote slipped in surreptitiously to avoid suspicion. I started the wagon on frisk when no one else suspected him, and I called for someone to hammer when he was at L-1. I wanted to lynch him. If you can explain why Frisk's scumbuddy would act as I did on D2 I'm all ears.

Note, I also was ready to lynch ashersky at the deadline on D2, as were you and Voltaire for the most part. I used this as evidence to mostly clear you and Voltaire if ashersky was scum, but then since those were all his possible partners (since he being scum => Frisk & Jorbles are town), this led me to believe Frisk and Jorbles is a likely team. You're not willing to follow this argument, or even comment on it as far as I can tell.

Okay crazy idea, but Cuzz fits both mafia teams! So, if we lynched him today, Frisk would either die at night or get another investigation in, and we'd basically be a lock?

I don't follow this either. Frisk dying tonight would mean Frisk is town. I am town, so if you lynch me today, and Frisk dies tonight we lose.

2665

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 11:45:21 am »

That was not apparent by your vote, as I explained. We've been in D3 for barely an rl day and you put Frisk at L-2, which at this point sets us up to lose if you're wrong since mafia can do a 1-2 quickhammer. This is very risky, unless you happen to know for certain exactly who is mafia.

Now, I don't think there's much risk of that happening now, but at the time it was very unwise if you are indeed town.

A couple more questions:

You ended D2 without voting. Who would you have voted for and why?

If Eevee is indeed Frisk's scumpartner, why do you think he so ready to lynch him at the end of D2 before Frisk claimed?

2666

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 11:23:27 am »

@Voltaire:
Because if a JK comes out then the remaining mafia will know exactly who to kill tonight. If they stay hidden we might get a no kill night.

@Cuzz:

Jorbles:
Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?

I am fairly certain that one of Frisk and ashersky is scum, and based on ashersky's arguments I'm pretty sure it's Frisk. At the moment I would say that his possible scum partner is most likely to be Eevee. It's clearly not ashersky as they've counterclaimed I still hold by the meta analysis of Voltgrim and you bussed him too hard d2 for it to be you.

I'm not buying this. Everyone else has had no trouble analyzing all the possibilities and defending their arguments at this point in the game. There's too much evidence floating around now. You say you're "fairly certain" one of them is scum? One of them is scum because one of them is lying and town has no reason to lie.

The above strikes me as "oh damn, I need to say something but it's hard for me to imagine what I'd say if I were town." You make a couple of wishy-washy statements without expanding or explaining, or citing previous arguments of others. As I say to my calculus students: "Show your work!"

2667

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 10:53:37 am »

I wanna see some deep analysis from Jorbles's perspective. Not to throw around accusations (a mafia game is no place for that) but a Frisk Jorbles scumteam is seeming more and more likely to me. Jorbles's vote on Frisk would be have been quite reckless for a townie who still thought Frisk had a chance of being town.

Jorbles:

Do you believe that one of ashersky and Frisk has to be scum?
If so, which one? And who is the possible scumpartner?

2668

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 07, 2012, 10:38:57 am »

If Frisk is telling the truth, the jailkeeper is still out there.

I really believe we have a jailkeeper either way. Frisk wouldn't make that lie if he didn't know that, way too easy to get caught.

If the jailkeeper came out, we could settle this right now. At least they would be able to corroborate the Geolib protection on N1. And a scum fakeclaim to protect Frisk would then mean both scum are out there lying their asses off, doubling the opportunity to find holes in the stories. Not saying a potentially nonexistent JK should claim now, but I think we should consider having them do so before we make a decision. An honest JK would be enough to lynch ashersky, and we'd then go up 3-1 tomorrow if we lose the JK tonight. Frisk would even have another chance to target scum.

The above is the scenario is the one in which Frisk is telling the truth. I'm beginning to have doubts, mostly based on my earlier personal assessment that Frisk telling the truth means both Volt and Eevee are likely scum. In fact that evaluation no longer works, as Frisk telling the truth means that ashersky is scum. From my perspective, his only scumpartner can be Eevee or Voltaire, both of whom voted for ashersky at the deadline yesterday. There would have been no reason to do so as scum; everything was hectic and it would have been so easy to claim that one had intended to vote for ashersky but didn't get there in time. Note that even if you also think I'm a possible ashersky scumpartner, the previous sentence applies to me as well.

In fact to sum up, if Frisk is telling the truth, ashersky is scum and all of his possible scumpartners tried to build a wagon on him from nothing at the deadline.

Ok now that I've written that out, I'm more than beginning to have doubts...

2669

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 06, 2012, 08:33:34 pm »

Cuzz - what is your read on this situation?  Crazy rant and the baby talk stands out?

Haha. I'm a bit drunk so following the last 2 pages and trying to put myself inside the heads of 5 other people is proving tricky.

I need ashersky to comment on the following. We've been over it somewhat, but to summarize bluntly:

Frisk's claim of cop contained mention of a jailkeeper. You then claim to have protected him as doctor. If you are really the doctor, you should have known immediately that he was lying, since the setup of the game can contain no more than 2 town PR's. You've been doctor all game, so town PR's should have been on your mind since the beginning. Explain yourself. You really just want us to take "it all happened so fast" as an excuse?

2670

Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia X - The Death of Donald X. Day 3

« on: September 06, 2012, 08:09:43 pm »

Here is a message from my son on the subject:
        333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`

So you'd say your trade is a family business?

He's 15 months - I'm giving him a little slack...

Fos: Baby Frisk

2671

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 06, 2012, 07:05:16 pm »

Before the Watno wagon completes a lynch, I'd really like people to consider what it means that Dsell was the only one out of 15 living who refused to give a nameclaim, or even to give a legitimate reason for not doing so.

Vote: Dsell until he does either.

2672

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 06, 2012, 02:08:39 pm »

To consider:

Bullet and Arrow hole in Axxle.

FTL/Morgrim7 are characters that likely have access to bows/arrows, maybe Robz too? (I know like nothing of Avatar)



Online Crosssection for when eHal died
Morgrim7
Robz
FTL


I think those are the only 3 on that list that were online?

Iroh's weapon is fire/lightning. No bows for Robz.

Also, I'm not sure which list you mean, but me, Eevee and Galz all posted within 10 minutes or so of the daykill.

I remember Eevee mentioned that using the "who was online" information was outside the spirit of the game, which seems scummy (I actually somewhat agree in principle, but why even say anything?). On the other hand, let's not forget jotheonah's warning about reading too much into that.

2673

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 06, 2012, 01:58:36 pm »

@Cuzz Don't you think now is a bit late to start complaining about Dsell not wanting to tell his name?

I supposed I'd hoped he might come around once everyone else claimed. And I wanted to put additional pressure on him, since I think even if Dsell is town, letting someone get away with withholding important information leaves the door open for scum to do the same without consequence later on. And we still have over a day left.

And you're currently the only person voting for him, and presumably you might want others to as well, so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me about it.

2674

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 06, 2012, 01:26:14 pm »

Insomniac, you missed Archetype's claim too:

Does anyone mind if I jump ahead and claim my name now?

Did you guys know that I'm The Mad Hatter? Does anyone else still feel that Watno is scummy? Who else thinks we should grill those who name-claimed before eHalcyon's death?

Vote: Watno

And Frisk, I don't really think this has been a waste of time. Sure it took a while, but we still have a whole day till deadline and we know two important things: Shared universes are possible, and someone who nameclaimed before eHalc died was lying.

But you also admit you haven't been reading so I'm not sure why you'd even make an uninformed comment like that before catching up.

2675

Mafia Game Threads / Re: BMV - Truly Bastard Role Madness Mafia - Day 2, PM mod for QT

« on: September 06, 2012, 01:20:21 pm »

ashersky is still missing from that list. And Frisk claimed a while ago (emphasis added):

I am opposed to O leading a mass claim, and i'm opposed to wasting time going through the process of everyone claiming 1x1.  we wasted a ton of time day 1 doing genre claims, and what did it get us?  What's it going to get us for name claims?  We're searching for someone with bow and arrow flavor?  Scum is gonna lie, and you might end up outing a vig by accident.

I am Jubilee.  If we're going to do it - then just have everyone post ASAP.  If we're going to do it directed - then we're going to end up waiting forever.

FOS Everybody who is in favor of name claiming.

Also, I'm not ok with Dsell's refusal to claim at this point. Once 2/3rds of the living players have claimed, any hesitation to do so seems really scummy.