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Topics - ednever

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76
2012 / What to do if someone isn't playing?
« on: December 05, 2012, 10:18:36 pm »
I've never had this happen in a tournament before.

I played a Ghost Ship and he hasn't responded. It's been 7 minutes now.

I don't like the idea of forcing a resign in tournament play, but he's not responding to chats anymore either.

At what point do you make them resign?

Ed
(I kept screen shots)

77
Game Reports / Develop!
« on: December 05, 2012, 12:33:17 pm »
Develop is my Achilles heel.

I love trying to make it work, but nine times out of ten it's a mistake.

When it does work though, it's a pretty cool site to see (like when I figured out the Vineyards/Develop combo).

Today I played a game where it shined.

My original strategy was to open Talisman/Develop and hope they collided (If they didn't I could use Develop to turn Estates into Villages and use Talismans to buy multiple Villages, so all would not be lost). If they collided, it let me set up the next hand with Village+Margrave.

It worked for that, but it was also super handy later in the game. I turned a Gold into a Margrave on top of deck, drew it with Village and kept a chain going. On my last turn I turned a Talisman into a Margrave+Village, which allowed me to double Province and end the game. A few other points it came in handy.

Here's the game: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-092822-c6b25d4e.html

Ed

78
Game Reports / I need more Scout!
« on: November 30, 2012, 04:26:25 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/30/game-20121130-132310-30343e38.html

13:14 paddyodoors: (good call on the scout, btw -- I would totally do the same with your deck right then with $4)
13:14 paddyodoors: (it's like you were reading my mind)

13:16 paddyodoors: jeez
13:16 ednever: Scout has helped a LOT so far!

13:17 paddyodoors: double bv... brutal
13:17 paddyodoors: I was okay with a 5-3 duchy split
13:17 paddyodoors: I am definitely NOT okay with a 6-2!

13:19 paddyodoors: I need more scout [He buys a Scout]
13:19 ednever: very funny
13:19 paddyodoors: (how many times has that been uttered in the history of dominion)
13:19 ednever: We should post this game on the forum too
13:20 ednever: Here's a Scout! [I pass a Scout when he plays Masc]

Ed

79
Game Reports / Expanding Colonies into Provinces
« on: November 30, 2012, 10:39:18 am »
Crossposted in the best moments of 2012 thread. I read something the other day in pet tricks about Remodeling cards into lower cost cards. It doesn't get any crazier than Colonies into Provinces...

----
This is a first for me... Turn 21...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/30/game-20121130-073335-6ba29ccd.html

— Your turn 21 —
You get +1 action and +$1 from your Fishing Village.
You play an Expand.
... You trash a Colony.
... You gain a Province.

— ednever's turn 22 —
ednever plays an Expand.
... trashing a Mountebank.
... gaining a Province.
(ednever draws: 2 Golds, an Expand, and 2 Coppers.)

All Provinces are gone.
ednever wins!

----
Even more funny is combined with turn 19:

— ednever's turn 19 —
ednever plays an Expand.
... trashing a Province.
... gaining a Colony.

I call it the two-step.

Ed

80
Game Reports / Penultimate Silver Rule
« on: November 27, 2012, 08:36:45 pm »
I wish I can say I saw this coming...
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/27/game-20121127-173149-53084b24.html

Trader/Gardens mirror match. The score was tied. Both of us had just crossed a Gardens threshold. We were down two piles. Both Estates and Duchies were down to 2 each. I was second player and was about to pick up the second last duchy - making it difficult for my opponent to win it (he would have to get a Province, or a Farmland+Duchy. Both possible, but difficult).

But when I Tradered my Trader (to get to 45 cards - just in case the game went on a little longer), the silver pile emptied. Three piles. Game over.

It would have been brilliant if I had saw it coming at all...

Ed

81
Game Reports / Adding Hunting Party to Bridge+Native Village
« on: November 09, 2012, 02:45:47 pm »
Honestly I didn't see the Bridge/NV until part way through the game...

But I transitioned into it after all the HP were gone (split 50/50) - and I think it worked even better. 7 Provinces on turn 12.

How does  that compare to straight Bridge/NV?

(Small advantage of going this way - is you don't telegraph that you are going B/NV - especially since I didn't realize that was what I was doing until turn 8 or 9...)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/09/game-20121109-114223-5549cf15.html


Ed

82
Game Reports / Militia vs. Chapel - how much luck was here
« on: November 09, 2012, 02:23:04 pm »
Played this game: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/09/game-20121109-111132-4a7da2be.html

JXC opened with Militia
I stuck with my original strategy plan of opening Chapel/HT (HT is  anice counter to Militia, and I knew I would need both the +buy and the easy ability to hit $5 and pick up labs). Plan was to trash out the Estates and some copper. Pick up lots of Labs to draw my deck, and two Banks. 2 Copper+Silver+2 Banks+HT = $16 - enough to pick up two provinces/turn.

I thought the game basically went according to plan. I didn't trash as much as I originally thought I would. I used the chapel all of twice, almost always preferring the HT.

I got lucky two ways:
1- Not having my terminals collide on turns 3/4
2- Having 2 Estates with my Chapel on turn 3

Both aren't super, lucky, but definitely would have been bed if they didn't happen.

I also had HT in hand quite a bit when JXC played his Militia, but I don't think it was that unlikely (my deck was small), or essential (if I hadn't I would have still had Labs that let me draw most of my deck anyway).

JXC disagreed and thought I was super lucky. We had a fairly long (and civil) conversation about it during the game:

11:06 Jeebus X. Cripes: too much luck, I can't win this
11:06 ednever: Think so?
11:06 ednever: I dont think I was super lucky
11:07 ednever: This time
11:07 Jeebus X. Cripes: every militia I played, you have HT
11:07 ednever: True enough
11:07 Jeebus X. Cripes: and I didn't hit your chapel turn either
11:07 ednever: About a 25% chance
11:07 ednever: I have a small deck
11:07 ednever: true
11:07 Jeebus X. Cripes: 25% chance of what?
11:07 ednever: that would have hurt
11:07 ednever: and I drew 2 estates on my chapel turn
11:07 Jeebus X. Cripes: that too
11:07 Jeebus X. Cripes: I think you've been super lucky
11:08 ednever: having HT when you play militia
11:08 ednever: I'll check out the log
11:08 ednever: Pretty sure Chapel+HT+Lab+Bank is dominant here though
11:08 Jeebus X. Cripes: I'm not saying my strat was better. Maybe yours was better
11:09 Jeebus X. Cripes: but we sure can't tell from this game
11:09 ednever: fair enough

I've looked through the logs and still think I wasn't super lucky. And I don't think we was either (or super unlucky - He drew his Militia on turn 4 (Turn three would have been better. 5 would have been a lot worse). He drew his Silver and Militia together - which means he had a bank on turn 4. Good luck, but not dominating.

Anyway. Would love thoughts from the community on this. JXC is a very good player and if he thinks this is luck I think it's worth considering. What am I missing?

Ed

83
Game Reports / The best possession game I've ever played
« on: November 08, 2012, 09:27:46 pm »
Possession can often lead to terrible games.

Sometimes one guy has an engine that lets him play multiples per turn and he runs away with the game, other times both players go Possession and start playing the other guys deck more than their own - leading to deck junking.

Or more common, Possession is just a mistake altogether.

This game wasn't like any of that.

It deserves a full write-up and analysis on a turn-by turn. Two very good players playing very different strategies. Then both having to adjust strategies dramatically when Possession entered the play. Colonies end up down to 1 left. And then sit at one left for a long time. Game looks like it will end on piles of Estates and Duchies. Both players trying for every last VP with Bishops.

Meanwhile Swindlers are causing havoc.

Game ends when a Swindler hits a Colony trashes and replaces.

One player takes is by a single point.

Hell of a game. Games like this are why I keep coming back to Dominion!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/08/game-20121108-180055-dbf19446.html

84
Game Reports / The swingy-est game I've ever
« on: November 08, 2012, 04:42:48 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/08/game-20121108-133428-a1d7af8a.html

Turn 4 I pick up a Tournament in the BM. Usually enough for a gg.

But...
Turn 10 my Tournament gets hit with his Swindler turning into a Treasure Map. Now I'm basically done.

But...
Turn 12 I pull $6p and a Black Market and draw Possession
turn 13 my Hunting Party pulls my Possession and I forge his Colony into a Colony and buy a Colony. I should be able to do that every turn. It's gg again!

But...
Turn 15 he Swindles my Possession! Nothing to gain...
Now it's gg again, but in the wrong direction...


Reason #1 to never quick early in a Dominion match...

Ed

85
Game Reports / Most random game
« on: November 06, 2012, 10:32:19 am »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/06/game-20121106-072855-c7748595.html

Sometimes you make bad decisions (I think) and then just go with the flow and develop new plans.

I never managed to get $3p to pick up an Alchemist (No surprise given my other choices), but scrambled to make something out of it, like using Ironworks to pick up estates and then trashing the estates with chapel and using Watchtower to draw.

IF any of it had been pre-planned it would have been brilliant.

As it was, it was closer to WTF...

Ed

86
Dominion Articles / Piledriving Estates
« on: November 04, 2012, 01:10:45 pm »
I've been meaning to write something on this for a while, and a game I just played inspired me to sit down and do it.

As we all know the game of Dominion ends in one of two conditions (or three if you read WW's article on winning by taking 50%+VP available on the table):
- When all the Provinces/Colonies are gone
- When three piles are empty

The fast the game ends immediately when the provinces are gone makes for rules like PPR and when to break PPR important.

Three pile games can usually be divided into three types:
1- One player is rushing piles to end the game
2- Both players are building engines (especially mirror engines) and so driving piles low as they both wait before they move into VP cards. As that nears the end players have to start greening to be ahead on their turn. If they are the other guy is forced to get ahead on their turn. If someone doesn't end their turn ahead, the other guy can choose not to buy VP and just end it on piles.
3- Curse-heavy games (especially Sea Hag or IGG) where one pile is curses and the attacks make it harder to get to provinces, causing Duchies or Estate pile empties to end the game


There is a third time that I've been seeing more and more in a subset of games.
It's a situation similar to #2, but usually only 1-2 piles are empty (if only one then the second is running low). Both players have started moving into Provinces and the game doesn't look like it will end on piles.

In games like this there is another 3-pile ending you need to watch out for: The Estate Piledrive.

If two piles are empty the game can be ended at any time with $16 and +7 buys (assuming a 2p game). Obviously if any Estates have been depleted it won't even require that much (examples: Swindler or Baron games).

Now $16, +7 buys sounds like a lot (You can just buy 2 provinces which should put you ahead anyway!), but these situations usually come about in engine games. Most common: Wharf, Grand Market and Bridge engines. In these games the other guy is usually able to buy two provinces on his turn as well. So your PPR often turns into PPPR (penultimate-penultimate-province-rule).

The key thing about piledriving Estates to end on piles is that, unlike forcing other 3-pile endings, you can do it when you are behind.

Often even more important than PDing Estates itself, is watching to make sure you don't set up your opponent to do it to you.

Works with:
- Baron (which draws down Estates)
- Bridge (One Bridge halves the price of Estates. Two makes them free)
- Highway (same reason as bridge. But you need to get the buys somewhere else)
- Wharf (Piles are usually running low anyway, and Wharf is effectively a +2 buy card)
- Grand Market (if you can get trashing going to play multiples in a turn. Every GM = 1 Estate)

Counters:
- Multi-player games where orchestrating this is a lot harder. But still something to watch out for when the opportunity comes up
- Non-engine games
- Games without +buy


Some examples:
Imagine this scenario:

- He is ahead by 6 points
- You buy two provinces
- He buys two provinces
Your turn.
There are 4 provinces left. He's ahead by 6 points. If you buy two provinces, he can likely buy two provinces on his turn and end it in the lead. Instead you could buy a province and a duchy and be ahead by 3 points. Then he is forced to buy 3 Duchies - and he's ahead by 6 again. Pretty soon neither of you will be able to double-province as your decks get greener and it turns into a crap-shot on who gets the right draw at the right time.

In a situation like this you need to look for a way to end it on your turn if there is any way you can. Pile driving Estates would do it: You get 8 points and pull ahead by 2 and the game ends.


Another example:
You are building a wharf engine. All of the Wharves and Worker's Villages are gone. Usually you want to build up your Gold now so you can start hammering provinces in another turn. You've fallen a little behind on green - the other guy picked up a province already to stop your ability to end it on piles. But wait: You draw $16 and you have tons of buys... Grab those Estates and end it before the end game even begins.


Here is the game that inspired this write-up:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/04/game-20121104-094009-db0118e9.html

In the game I see the double province turns coming. I was actually afraid Qbert would end it on piles. I pick up a province for insurance. And leave a 2 Hunting Parties. The only way for him to end on piles is to get 6 VP, pick up two HP (which is possible with Smugglers in play) and still empty another pile. I'm safe.

He picks up two provinces to get +6VP ahead. He also picks up a HP with his Smuggler, which was his only real mistake.
My problem is I have 5 Grand Markets -> That gives me 6 buys. But I need to pick up a Hunting Party and 8 Estates - I need 9 buys.
I use my Smuggler to pick up the last Hunting Party, and then draw it into my hand. Now I'm only short 2 buys.
I play my Salvager on the HP for +1 buy, and then Spice Merchant a Silver for another.
+ 8 buys and enough $s to pick up all 8 Estates.

Here is another example where King's Courted Barons caused the Estate pile to empty:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/04/game-20121104-105402-7312fe6e.html

And another example (Colony game with Bridge and Possession):
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/04/game-20121104-130749-3c9fa767.html

And another: (Grand Market + Conspirators)
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/04/game-20121104-142759-13d30393.html


I wish we had Council Room to pull up more games that end in an Estate piledrive. Anyone else have examples? Or types of games when this happens?

Ed

87
Dominion Articles / Combo: Jack+Warehouse
« on: November 03, 2012, 08:12:30 pm »
This is just a short piece.

There are two very good articles about Jack.
Here is the basic strategy article: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/12/05/hinterlands-jack-of-all-trades/
Here is the "Truth" about Jack: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2634.0
And this comment on the main article talks about some of the key Jack combos: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/12/05/hinterlands-jack-of-all-trades/#comment-8360

But I've haven't seen this one mentioned anywhere, but it was obvious when I saw it: Warehouse.

In fact, Warehouse is such a good compliment to Jack, it replaces the need for a full Jack.

Using G's simulator I ran the optimized Jack bot against a bot that replaced a single silver buy with a Warehouse.

The Warehouse-Jack bot wins about 55-39.
There is a lot of leeway. The odds do not change significantly if you do any of the following:
- Buy one warehouse or two
- Buy one Jack or two

Why this works makes a lot of intuitive sense. Jack lets you draw up to 5 cards - so any cards discarded with Warehouse 'don't count' if you can get to a Jack. And Warehouse lets you sift through your deck faster to get the your Jack(s). You end up playing Jack more often - getting more silvers. And warehouse lets you skip by the coppers - so you can pretty easily draw hands of the $8 you need for a province.

Note that playing this takes a little bit of finesse.
You want to control your warehouse plays so that you get to play your Jacks as much as possible, and watching the re-shuffles. You also have the ability to discard the top card or not with Jack - which you can also use to manage your re-shuffles and your $s per hand. I'm betting the bot doesn't do that very well.
At the start of the game you want to not only ensure you get a Jack in your hand, but you also want an Estate (a single Estate) so the Jack can trash it. Later on you want to discard the greens and copper so you are just drawing all those silver.

You likely don't want more than 2 Jacks or 2 Warehouses due to the danger of drawing them after playing Jack (Before doesn't matter as you just keep sifting)

Here is the game I played today that inspired this short write-up:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/03/game-20121103-165342-deace913.html

Ed

88
Game Reports / If only those Gardens were Feodums...
« on: November 02, 2012, 10:06:15 pm »
As it was, still pretty good...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/02/game-20121102-190316-9783e875.html

24/45 cards are silvers.

Ed

89
Game Reports / First time using Trusty Steed for Silvers (effectively)
« on: October 25, 2012, 09:43:29 pm »
Second player and I got second shot at the Prizes. First player took Followers (right choice), and I grabbed the Steed.

Interesting element here was Duke. I knew I would have to do something different to win, so I only picked up two provinces, and then went Duchy for a Duke strategy. Duke loves Silvers.... So I used the Steed for Silvers twice to great results.

I shrugged off 4 curses for the win: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/25/game-20121025-184006-1ae25224.html

Bag of Gold was also super helpful (and I think a better choice than Princess this time)

ed

90
Game Reports / Buying four Alchemists in the same turn to end on piles
« on: October 21, 2012, 04:56:18 pm »
First time for everything.

I used Workshop to pick up a (fourth!) Potion and Apothecary to draw all the potions and a bunch of copper into hand. Hamlets discarding Estates )and a copper) for the +4 buy

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/21/game-20121021-134756-2afaf2b3.html

Pretty sure I've never purchased 4 Potion cards in the same turn, let alone used timed it to end it on piles...

Ed

91
This board had nothing... But we both tried (different) weird strategies instead of just going Big Money.
With some ridiculous results...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/19/game-20121019-092422-afc8de10.html

Duchies and Estates both get emptied with 3 provinces still left. I don't think I have enough economy to ever get another province, so I start trying to end the game on piles (buying Pearl Divers when there are still 8 left) before MM can buy the two provinces (out of three) he needs to win. There are still 3 PDs left when he gets his second province.

So I have to change tracks and try to find a way to get to that last province. I buy an Inn and put some Barons and Inns (and 7 Pearl Divers) back into my deck.

Then I get lucky.

(ednever draws: 2 Barons, a Pearl Diver, a Gold, and an Inn.)
— ednever's turn 30 —
ednever plays a Pearl Diver.
... drawing 1 card and getting +1 action.
... and moving the bottom card of the deck to the top. (it was a copper)
ednever plays an Inn.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +2 actions.
... discarding 2 cards. (discard Curse+Baron)
ednever plays a Baron.
... getting +1 buy.
... discarding an Estate.
... getting +$4.
ednever plays a Gold and a Copper.
ednever buys a Province.
(ednever draws: an Estate, an Inn, a Pearl Diver, and 2 Coppers.)

All Provinces are gone.


Note the turn count: Turn 30!

Pretty sure some Gold and Silver would have beat that...

Ed

92
Advertisements / Travel
« on: October 14, 2012, 06:24:12 pm »
Hey all-

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Check it out and let me know what you think:

Stopovertravel.com
or

And it would be great it you liked it on facebook:

facebook.com/travel

(Yep. Facebook.com/travel - pretty cool, no?)

Thanks for your support,

Ed

93
Variants and Fan Cards / 4 player with 16 Provinces?
« on: October 13, 2012, 01:18:27 pm »
Has anyone done this?

It seems like it would be natural:
2p- 8 provinces
3p- 12 provinces
4p-  ???

One of the issues with 4p is that engines are a lot harder to build since the games go so much faster. That could be fixed by player 5p rules with 4 players:

- 16 provinces / colonies
- 4 piles for game ending

Given the amount of testing Dominion went through I'll bet there is a reason this won't work, but I can't come up with it.

Also:
What if you did the same for all vp cards? 16 of each instead of 12? Would it break anything? Or is it just a function of not wanting to print 4 extra copies of all vp cards? (ie logistical vs perfect game design?)

Ed

94
I knew this would be messy before the game even started:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/12/game-20121012-185720-111adc88.html

Cards in supply: Fool's Gold, Golem, Governor, King's Court, Oracle, Pawn, Possession, Potion, Silk Road, Smithy, and Upgrade

But all that really mattered was King's Court, Possession, Governor and Golem (maybe Pawn)

The only real mistake Fire Penguin made was using his Governor to pick up a Gold. As soon as he did that he gave me the ability to gain provinces when I possessed him. With his Silvers and Pawns (and starting copper) I could gain 2 provinces and 2 duchies each time I possessed him (plus upgrading my own stuff - like a KC-> Province, or a Potion->Duchy)

The textbook play for this board is standard when Possession is a usable card - but highlighted like crazy due to Governor and King's Court.
You want to get to Possession and KC as fast as possible. Then you want to trash your own deck so the only thing you can do is possess the other guys deck repeatedly but are not able to buy anything yourself.

Ideally you want to get to a ton of Governors, a couple of KC, a Possession or two, and 4 copper and a potion (so you can keep picking up Golems). Then draw your deck with Governors (drawing the other guys deck at the same time), and play as many Possessions as you can on his newly big deck. Then use his deck to buy green (or remodel into it with Governors).

The only thing he would be able to do with your deck is buy Estates (and Golems. Golmes are a good defence if you get enough Possession density since they are dangerous to play).


Neither of us got to that textbook place, but we were both headed that direction.

It's a tough balance (and a lot of luck) to get the economy you need to get Possessions and King's Court and then trash down - and in this case the whole game was over in 11 turns - so you don't have a lot of time...

I did it this time by opening 5/2 - which let me get a Governor. And then using the Governor for draw only - I had 7 copper which was enough to get KC or Potion or more Governors. My biggest mistake here was likely buying any Pawns at all. The just give Fire Penguin the ability to get to $8.

Messy. But more fun than I thought it would be. And it really highlights how to play Possession in less extreme situations.

Ed

95
Game Reports / Schooled by GaryW
« on: October 11, 2012, 09:38:38 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/11/game-20121011-183606-d93a8a0a.html

I haven't been beat like this in a long time. Felt like an amateur.

Gary used Jack and Masc for draw and Festival for actions/$s. He ignored Goons for most of the game and just drove down the Festival pile. By the time I saw it happening it was too late. He had taken all the ways to get +actions and was able to draw his deck, then he started picking up Goons.

I tried to end it before he could take off, but failed by a couple of turns.

Wow. Well done Gary,

Ed

96
11:39 Captain_Frisk: this is going to be weird
11:40 ednever: how so?
11:40 Captain_Frisk: maybe i'm wrong
11:47 ednever: ok
11:47 ednever: pretty weird


Really weird game.

Both players were afraid to buy the second last Estate! In a Colony Game (not that Colonies mattered). And we were also afraid to pick up the second last Worker's Village. All of the Bishops and Cartographers were gone, and both of us had tight decks that could produce ~5VP/turn by playing two bishops (and re-fueling with Universities). Neither of us could produce more than $2 in cash per turn. Enough to buy a single Estate - but not two.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/11/game-20121011-115050-99ea2c00.html

One of the more fun end games I've played in a long time!

Thank's Captain,

Ed

97
Game Reports / Embargo everything!
« on: October 10, 2012, 03:05:47 pm »
Embargo is rapidly becoming one of my favorite cards. I think it's the most interactive card in the game - more than any other card it force you to pay attention to your opponent's strategy and figure out what you can do than will hurt him more than it hurts you.

You also have to be careful that you don't lock yourself into a strategy that can be countered with an effective use of Embargo. And you need to be flexible to adjust your strategy every time Embargo is played.

Then throw in figuring out when it's worth it to pick up a curse for that card you need.

(A special case for all this is Potion cards. The second someone picks up a potion you should think about ignoring the potion and grabbing an Embargo to Embargo the potion card you are sure they want. It's likely still worth picking up a single Familiar if there is an Embargo on it, but likely not worth the second one. Most other potion cards are at their best when stacked - and that's the hardest thing to do with an Embargo'd card)

Here's a fun game I played where we both played pretty well. There ended up being 8 Embargos played on 8 different cards - and five curses picked up between the two of us.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/10/game-20121010-113700-5a039b29.html

SmuggledDuchy opened with FG, so I ignored silver and grabbed an Embargo to block his spamming of FG. It just went on from there with Embargoing of Potion cards, Golds, Provinces, Border Villages (when I was buying BV+Duchy and then Remodeling BV into Provinces) and on and on...

Ed

98
Dominion General Discussion / Better understanding duration cards
« on: October 05, 2012, 04:06:04 pm »
Thought experiment:

Imagine these cards:

new lighthouse
This turn: +$2
Next turn: +$0 (leave on play)

New fishing village
This turn: +2, +3 actions
Next turn: +0 (leave in play)

New caravan
This turn: +1 action, +2 cards
Next turn: +0 cards (leave in play)

New merchant ship
This turn: +$4
Next turn: +$0 (leave in play)

New Wharf
This turn: +4 cards, +2 buys
Next turn: +0 cards (leave in play)

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So... Better or worse?
We know an issue with durations is that they miss the shuffle far more often. These cards act the same way.
The only difference is they take their entire benefit and put it on one turn rather than spreading it out.

My guess is that in general it's better, but done exceptions.

I think this version is better for lighthouse, caravan and merchant ship, but worse for fishing village and wharf.

Thoughts?

Ed

99
Whenever discussion on this board goes to 'how do you deign a good non-random kingdom' one of the things that almost always comes up is, "It needs to have +actions"

I've always thought that was wrong.

Engine building with +actions can be a lot of fun, but it's only one small part of the strategy space that exists in Dominion.

chwhite (level 40+ player) and I just played this game: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201210/02/game-20121002-194558-3ac6fcf1.html

It was a super interesting kingdom (that lead to a super interesting game with lots of both strategic and tactical decision points) and it had no +actions. In fact the game would have been a lot LESS interesting if there had been +actions. Here's why:

1- The first strategy choice is whether to go Scrying Pool or not. We both went that way, but it's very unclear if that's the right answer. We talked after the match and there was a very viable solution going Bridge/Nomad Camp/Hoard/Silk Road. I may very well beat Scrying Pool. If there had been +actions then Pool would win hands down - therefore less strategic thinking

2- After going Pool: With no +action lighthouse became very important as the only spamable card. Steward was important to trash down a the beginning, but if you stuck with Steward trashing, then you could only get one buy. At some point you had to transition to Bridge and Steward became a dead card. If there had been a village, then we both would have waited for a mega bridge-turn with a huge Scrying Pool draw (with no treasure left in the deck from the Stewards). there would have been a lot of luck on who 'went off' first. As it was we knew we would never have more than 2 buys per turn - which meant we had to start greening a lot earlier. But the faster we greened the faster we slowed down - due to the pools (which made aggressive early trashing important).
Also we had to pick up Golds - since We didn't have enough buys to spam lighthouses.


It was a very interesting match - and it would have been very run-of-the-mill had it had any card that acted like a village.

Just thought I'd share.

Ed

100
Here's the card idea:

Sentry, $3
Action/Duration
This turn and next turn you may trash a card in hand.
While this is in play you may immediately gain any card sent into the trash.

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Rule clarification: for purposes of gaining cards sent to the trash, sentry trumps all other cards (since it intercepts on the way to the trash rather than taking from the trash). When two sentries are in play, they activate in turn order (so if it's your turn and you trash a card with sentry, you can gain it right back before the player to your left has the ability to grab it)
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Thoughts?
The basic parts of this card are simple. It's a relatively weak trasher, but allows you to spread out the trashing (to increase the odds of hitting a curse). It's other benefit is a nice defense against trashing attacks (thief, Sab, knights, etc). It also let's you have fun with your own trash for benefit cards for some fun combos.

It may need sprucing up. Maybe +1 action?
Or maybe make it:
$5 card, +1 action, and the gained cards go directly into your hand? (makes any card into a fortress...)

What do y'all think?

Ed

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