Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

76

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 17, 2021, 10:54:54 pm »

Vote Count 2.3:

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth (1): WCD

Not Voting (11): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.

Here's the vote count I used to make my vote count that everyone is saying left EFHW off on purpose.  No EFHW voting there.  I just quote the mod's post and delete the formatting.

There was even this post later that I saw to ensure the VC was right:

Vote Count 2.3:

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth(1): WCD

Not Voting (11): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria, MiX, Eddie, chairs, hypercube, Glooble, PPS, Awaclus

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 starts now and ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.

Today the active timeline is the FORWARD TIMELINE We will remain in the FORWARD TIMELINE until the start of Day 3.
Only players from the currently active timeline may vote, or be voted for.

VC 2.3 corrected. Don't do VCs at work kids...

77

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 17, 2021, 02:26:00 am »

If anyone was asking me, I would say Galzria is the other option for today.

And I say that with a heavy heart, of course.  But man, talk about inactive.  Town!galz is just much more active than this usually.

78

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 16, 2021, 11:11:31 pm »

I'd like to invite joth (and any other players who would like) to continue to try to make a case, any case, that I am not town.  It's super hilarious.  I get why many may not understand why, but it is.

Ok. So far you've done absolutely nothing protown this game. Day one you did a bunch of setup talk, which is easy peezy acti-lurking, and today you've done nothing but your lazy, preposterous manufactured 1v1 on me.

I disagree that what I've done has not been protown.  I agree with your Day 1 assessment.  The 1v1 may be manufactured, but definitely not lazy.  It's a lot of work!

79

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 16, 2021, 10:25:15 pm »

I'd like to invite joth (and any other players who would like) to continue to try to make a case, any case, that I am not town.  It's super hilarious.  I get why many may not understand why, but it is.

80

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 16, 2021, 10:23:44 pm »

Roleblocker is also, of course, a popular anti-town role for anti-town alignments.  Town versions exist, which make them a go-to claim for mafia.

Just pointing that out.

81

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 10:53:20 pm »

Real VC 2:

Joth (3): WCD, EFHW, Ashersky
Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
WestCoastDidds (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.


Dylan or Galz could vote me and make the other a kingmaker.  Fun times.

82

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 10:51:42 pm »

I need to do a proper reread and do some real scumhunting instead of letting ash distract me with his BS. Perhaps I'll have time today.

Still hoping to see this!

I should have time tomorrow.

FYI, you are at E-1.  Like a real one, because I'm already voting.

83

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 08:05:18 am »

Maybe I can phrase it differently:

Do you think I'm lying?  Or do you think I'm wrong?

If it's the former, you have to decide why, probably settle on me being not town, and would look to exile me.
if it's the latter, you have to accept that it's possible I'm town and wrong, or that you are wrong and I'm right.

That's if you want to make this about me.  I'd rather you make it about joth.

Do you think he's lying?  Or do you think he's right?  Or do you think he's wrong?  Or do you think it is some mix of those?

Decide what that means to you.  Like, if he's on a 3-person mafia team with 1 in this timeline and 2 in the other, than I'd say he's just lying.  Yes, he's wrong, but being wrong on purpose, so I wouldn't give him that adjective.  But if he's an SK with no further knowledge, then he's lying, but could be right or wrong at the same time.

I guess he could be lying town, but that seems unlikely.  Only very few of us go that route.

84

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 08:01:43 am »

Wow.  So much activity.

85

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 03:33:57 am »

Ashersky (2): Joth, scolapasta
Joth (1): WCD

Not Voting (4): EFHW, Ashersky, Dylan, Galzria

With 7 alive on the ACTIVE TIMELINE, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Tuesday, May 18th at 4:55pm Forum Time.


This is what's actually happening today, right?

vote: joth although that's obvious.  That makes it 2 each.  Galz needs to catch up, not sure what EFHW and Dylan are thinking.

86

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 03:05:45 am »

If you disagree with my 1v1 argument, why are you taking part?  You clearly are taking joth's side over mine, so you have chosen in the 1v1.  To be clear, that's absolutely fine with me.  It was my suggestion in the first place.  Just stop saying you disagree with the 1v1 or whatever, because you are clearly playing along.

Your defense of glooble is sound, and while I've listed glooble in my suspicions, it's definitely more because of his tie to joth than his statements.  I've clearly been focused on joth here, not glooble.  I still think he made a strong statement of fact that there are 2 non-town per timeline given his own words.  He then adds the unless as a hedge.  It's like "I'm positive I left my keys on the table...unless I'm misremembering."  The first half of that is an objective statement, not a subjective one.  Same with glooble's thing.

As for humoring you?  If I was trolling (by which I assume you mean purposefully doing annoying things for the sake of annoyance?), I would assume it would have to be for laughs?  I mean, why do trolls troll anyway?

If you mean that I am purposefully continuing an argument that I actually know to be flawed/wrong/weak/useless/whatever you think for some reason other than the actual argument I'm making, then I guess others have mentioned that it could be to force reactions from players, gain information by seeing how players perform under pressures or in response to specific claims, etc.

It's none of that though.  If anything, I'd say the closest thing you might recognize would be MiXing.  I know I'm town, I know I'm right, and I won't stop until you believe me or exile me.

The funny thing is, this is so incredibly easy to solve.  Agree to the 1v1.  That's all it takes.  Even if joth doesn't, if everyone else does, we can ensure the exile is him or me.

87

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:29:17 am »

Another point for thought:

If this were town v town and I am just wrong, wouldn't mafia be helping this along?  Going with me is a generally safe play and it's easy enough to blame the outcome on me in the end.  I am literally providing mafia with a super easy mis-exile of a usually strong town player.  Mafia have zero reason to distance or defend joth here.

And based on the supposed facts provided by joth, et al., there should be exactly two mafia available to vote for him today.

88

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:28:18 am »

Another point for thought:

If this were town v town and I am just wrong, wouldn't mafia be helping this along?  Going with me is a generally safe play and it's easy enough to blame the outcome on me in the end.  I am literally providing mafia with a super easy mis-exile of a usually strong town player.  Mafia have zero reason to distance or defend joth here.

89

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:26:10 am »

I would ask that I get a chance to respond if I make it to E-1.

I am the innocent one here, not joth.  I speak nothing but truth, or my own opinion of what I feel to be truth.  Can the same be said of joth?  I do not think so, based on the words in his posts, nothing else.

90

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:25:15 am »

None of this is meant to be proof that any of are not scum, per se, just that ash is creating this controversy out of thin air. And I don't really understand why.

It doesn't seem like a good play for scum!ash and makes no sense from town!ash. So 🤷‍♂️

Also, this is hedging.  Hedging is generally read to be bad.  If you want to choose joth over me, so be it.  But vote.

91

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:24:19 am »

Here's joth:

joth and Glooble are the ones that seem scared, flailing, and doing their very best to convince town of a "fact" that is definitely just a random, terrible opinion.

No, you're the dum-dum head!

There is ZERO proof or certainty that there are exactly two non-town players in one or both timelines. None. Only the non-town teams themselves could possibly know that, and even then, they can't know if there are other non-town players.

So continuing to parade around this lie as truth is anti-town at best and malicious at worst.

Absolutely no one is saying this is an absolute truth. That's a flimsy strawman and you know it. We're saying this is a reasonable assumption to work off of in the absence of more or better information.

Here's Gloobie:

More than 2 scum in a timeline is borderline impossible for town. You have to vote unanimously to exile anyone and if you misexile once and then scum succeeds on a nightkill town just loses. There is no way that's the setup. I'm sorry that's just math.

Only one scum in a timeline is the opposite problem, it's virtually impossible for scum to win.

If the setup is balanced, there are two scum per timeline. Unless it's multiball or we have neutral third parties of some sort. Which the "non-town" wording of math's power would lend support to.

Still, I think it's fine to start with the assumption of two scum per timeline.

And here's me:

I generally agree with the thought that 2 per timeline is a relatively safe assumption and a good place to start. We should of course question it until proven correctly, but it does give us info.

These three posts are not equal.  Equating them is misleading and confusing.

For example, you are discussing the topic as an assumption and even add a caveat about the need to question it.  That's fine and I took no issue with it; hence no discussion of you as possibly lying non-town.

Glooble is pretty clearly stating that 2 non-town is the clear and only truth in the universe.  He even says "there are two scum in the timeline" specific as a requirement for the setup to be balanced.  I absolutely disagree, as there are a multitude of ways to ensure balance with different numbers of non-town players.  But he makes a statement of fact, not of opinion, when he uses "there are" without a "probably" or "I think" attached to it.  He could have said "there should be" or "it is most likely that" or anything.  He chose not to, a specific and direct choice that speaks to his aim and purpose.  He either knows or believes it to be a fact.  This is not an opinion.

The quote you chose for joth is one I responded to, and has nothing to do with his original claims regarding the topic of discussion, so I don't know why you quoted it.  He just says out of the blue that "absolutely no one is saying this is an absolute truth" even though Glooble did in the post you quoted, and I think he did in past posts, even if not using those exact words.

92

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 15, 2021, 12:18:41 am »

The argument is two non-town per timeline or not.  That's what we've been arguing about the entire time.

To me, it's clear that Glooble and joth, at the very least, are stating that there are two non-town per timeline.  I stated something to the contrary and joth said I was wrong.

Could joth be incorrect instead of lying?  That possibility exists.  But if he is making these assertions while knowing someone else is true, then he's lying, and that's my supposition.

His saying I was wrong is an easy example illustrating his perpetuation of the lie itself, which is that there are two non-town per timeline.

(Note, I do not in fact know the number of non-town per timeline.  There could be two, and I could be wrong.  This would be the Brad Pitt example.  But then, why would joth know for a fact the number of non-town unless he is, in fact, non-town?)

93

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 09:56:51 pm »

This artificially created 1v1 is annoying. Ash is clearly misrepresenting what joth and gloobie said. I mean I said a lot of the same stuff too, so why doesn't he include me as well in his "lying scum" list?

joth may still be scum, but he's correct that he never asserted 2 scum per TL is absolute.

And ash trying to argue this is either scummy or at best a major, artificially created, disaster.

I am not clearly misrepresenting anything.  The only thing I'm doing is clearly representing.  joth is the one misrepresenting.

I'm happy to include you in the lying list, if you insist.  I take that to mean you are admitting to lying?  I appreciate that.  Definitely awesome of you.

94

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 09:54:45 pm »

Vote: ash

Bold for emphasis even though I'm a tree stump during this timeline

You know me better.

Ash is picking this fight tho. Does scum ash do this? Does scum Joth make this defense by just saying, "unh-uh you must be scum then"?

Like this guy does.

95

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 09:52:45 pm »

Honestly, ash's comment really rubs me the wrong way. In addition to being wrong, it's combative and AtE.

vote: ash

Here's a post in which joth states unequivocally that the 2 non-town per timeline hypothesis is perfect and unquestionable.

Wrong is a binary adjective here (am I using the right descriptor?).  There's only wrong and right, no other options, is what I mean.  As he declares I am wrong, he is declaring also that what I am wrong about is right.  Not probable, not likely, not more reasonable.  Right.  Correct.  Exact.

woweee what a stretch. Ok. I didn't know this was going to become a debate about what words mean.

You can ACTUALLY use wrong to refer to opinions, i.e.

ash: McDonalds is way better than Burger King
joth: You are so wrong

In that situation no one would ever assume I was making a hard factual assertion about the relative merits of fast food. They would assume I was emphatically stating my differing opinion. Which is the sense in which I was using it.

I win.

"Hi, my name is joth, and I like to use false analogies to make ash look bad.  Nice to meet you."

Of course you can use wrong to refer to opinions.  Your McDonald's example does a good job.  Except the conversation we are having in this game is not about opinions, it is about facts.  So, your analogy is misleading and bad.  Instead, look at something like this:

ash: The United States has 51 states.
joth: You are wrong.

That's the analogy you should be making here.  You are saying I'm incorrect because it is common knowledge (for adult Americans, at least), that it's 50 states.

Actually, this one might be even better:

ash: I believe Brad Pitt is 55 years old.
joth: You are wrong.  He's 57.

Here, it's a fact that is probably not super common knowledge.  Maybe you are a Pitt superfan.  Or you googled.  Even better:

ash:  I think Ray Kroc founded McDonald's in 1955.
joth:  Wrong.  Kroc founded it in 1947.  He fought in WWII, came back, and after two years working in his father's factory, decided to start a burger joint.

Joth corrects a fact and even provides supporting facts.  Except it's all lies.  It is 1955.

Voting joth is the only option for any town-aligned player.

96

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 01:24:32 am »

To ensure you can't try to escape this argument, breaking down your language further, you use "in addition to being wrong..."  That phrasing is clearly meant to show that my "wrongness" is self-evident and obvious, without need for further discussion.  Everyone can see he's wrong, but there's also these other things...is what you were writing.

That does not track at all with an argument that what I am arguing against "is a reasonable assumption to work off of in the absence of more or better information."

So, within a very short space of time, you contradicted yourself.  You made one assertion, I called you out on it and drew attention to you, and you immediately tried to back track and paint yourself in a better light.

Note, I am only using your own posts to make this point.  These are your words, not mine.

97

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 01:19:46 am »

Absolutely no one is saying this is an absolute truth. That's a flimsy strawman and you know it. We're saying this is a reasonable assumption to work off of in the absence of more or better information.

Straight up lie.  I just quoted you saying it is an absolute truth.

Exile All Liars.  I mean, that's never been a thing that anyone follows, but still.

You are NOT saying it is a reasonable assumption to work off of.  You 100% said I was wrong, which can only be predicated on the 2 non-town theory being right.

Or do you plan on walking back your previous statement all of a sudden when you've been caught in a lie of epic proportions?

98

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 01:17:23 am »

Honestly, ash's comment really rubs me the wrong way. In addition to being wrong, it's combative and AtE.

vote: ash

Here's a post in which joth states unequivocally that the 2 non-town per timeline hypothesis is perfect and unquestionable.

Wrong is a binary adjective here (am I using the right descriptor?).  There's only wrong and right, no other options, is what I mean.  As he declares I am wrong, he is declaring also that what I am wrong about is right.  Not probable, not likely, not more reasonable.  Right.  Correct.  Exact.

99

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 01:14:50 am »

I'll put it down officially: that was definitely a terrible use of mathdude's power and it was a complete waste of time.

We know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube, mathdude

We got a mathdude, flip, so now we know that exactly 0, 1, 3, or 4 of the following set of players is non-town: Glooble, Awaclus, MiX, hypercube

I mean...how is that useful in any meaningful way?

The argument for 0 was that we at least removed the single option that was different, in that it assured us of something, a guarantee that mafia was in the set.  We don't even have that.

I guess the argument was betting on 2 was the best chance at a big payout?  Like various odds at the craps table?  Man, that didn't work out.

You can really read this as scum actually being worried about the info we gained from math's power and rushing in first thing in the day to throw smoke up and discredit it.

That's what I was trying to say. Thank you for saying it in a clearer way.

Here's where I specifically see joth and Glooble tied together.

100

Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 2

« on: May 14, 2021, 01:13:25 am »

What was joth's lie?

How are  you so sure joth is not town?

This one?  I hadn't responded to any posts since you asked this, so it isn't bad that I didn't respond yet.

I'm so sure that I am town.  He threw shade my way first, so I'm responding.  I do think that pressing on with the "exactly two non-town per timeline is the only possible setup that we should consider here and all other thoughts are anti-town" line of thinking is absolutely what mafia does in this situation, and that's what it appears to me that joth (and Glooble) are doing.  MiX is halfheartedly playing that game, which seems less anti-town than normal for him, so I don't know what that means.

So, joth's posts on this matter have be convinced he is non-town.