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Messages - eHalcyon

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11801
Dominion Articles / Re: Mandarin
« on: March 24, 2012, 05:06:09 pm »
1a- Putting one card back onto your deck is courtyard-esque and can be really powerful.  This is nowhere as bad as having to discard 1 card.

That really depends on what you have in hand.  Sometimes putting cards back on top of the deck hurts.  Maybe you have Mandarin+Gold+Silver+Estatex2.  You can play the Mandarin and the treasure to gain a Province, but you also have to top-deck an Estate.  Top decking also slows down your deck cycling a bit.  It can be useful in many situations (like that Laboratory example mentioned above) but sometimes it's painful.

11802
General Discussion / Re: The game
« on: March 24, 2012, 04:55:54 pm »
If you don't like the game, ignore it. You won't lose.

Even if you ignore it, you lose when you think about it.  There's no avoiding that.  You can not care about losing, but you lose either way.

11803
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« on: March 24, 2012, 04:53:21 pm »
Demolition Team is a better trasher than Chapel. In addition, it can unavoidably force other players to trash cards. Even without that second ability, it is a better trasher than Chapel. I don't think it needs to do anything else.

Demolition Team is quite a bit stronger in three ways:
- it cycles the deck
- it can trash up to 5 cards, rather than just 4
- it doesn't trash your current hand, so you can still buy something that turn

It would be very rarely that you would buy more than one of these, so the second ability wouldn't come into play often anyway.  When it does, it may actually help the opponent rather than hurt them.  If it's really an issue, maybe it could be changed to an optional trash for opponents (like Bishop), but I think the forced trash isn't a big deal.  In the cases where it does hurt the opponent, I think it's justified as an attack.  The opponent still gets a choice of what to drop...

11804
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion - Dominion: Piston Town
« on: March 23, 2012, 03:56:41 pm »
Aerial Crank is fairly interesting.  It opens up strategies involving tons of terminals.  Not sure if you'd ever want more than one though, to kick start a chain with drawers.  You probably wouldn't want to put more than one on the top of the deck, since that would just clog up your hand and lower the chance of getting your Smithy or whatever.  Maybe you'd need multiples if you don't have any other villages.

Saloon is pretty interesting too.  I think I'd like it more if it had +1 card instead of +$1.

Reassemble seems extremely weak, or maybe just extremely situational.  If you only have one, it is terrible.  With just the one, there aren't any others to reveal from your hand so you could only get a card of the same cost.  With two, you then rely on them colliding.  Without helpers, this is still really bad (think Treasure Map), and even then it requires two cards to be worse than Remake or Remodel.  With even more copies, you still rely on all these cards coming together in the same hand and then you need luck to have the card you want to reassemble in hand as well.  You'd need quite an engine to make it worthwhile, and in that case there are probably faster, more effective ways to do what you want to do.  I don't think the mechanic works very well, but it might be better if it was $2 more per Reassemble revealed (though that might be too strong), or if it cost $2 instead of $3.  In the latter case, you could then Reassemble a starting Estate into a second Reassemble instead of having to waste a second buy on it.

Mastermind just seems really annoying to play.  One person having to reorder 10 cards for every player in the game? :\

Blue Blood gives +1 Action when it isn't even your turn?

11805
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards That Use The Bottom of The Deck
« on: March 23, 2012, 03:34:55 am »
A bottom of the deck bureaucrat could be devastating if played multiple times

Probably too devastating.  With Bureaucrat, at least you draw it next hand and clear your deck.  Bottom-Bureaucrat can accumulate over several turns and completely wipe the turn before the reshuffle.  On the bright side, a bunch of green cards miss the reshuffle.

11806

Solitaire only...

Draw 5x copper.

Turn 1: Buy Council Room.
Draw 2x copper, 3x estate.

Turn 2: Buy nothing.
Draw Council Room, 4x copper.

Turn 3: Play Council Room. Hand now contains 5 coppers, 3 estates. (2 coppers on deck still.) Buy a Potion.
Draw 4x copper, Council Room.

Turn 4: Play Council Room. Hand now contains 7 coppers, one estate. (2 estates and a potion on deck still.) Buy a King's Court.
Draw 2x estate, potion, king's court, council room.

Turn 5: Play KC-Council Room. Hand now contains 7 coppers, 3 estates, potion. (Deck empty.) Buy a Possession.
Draw KC, Possession, 3x estate.

Turn 6: Play KC-Possession.

From now on, since your deck consists of 14 cards only and you have a Council Room, perfect shuffle luck ensures you can play KC-Possession more than once every 3 turns. This ensures that you never begin your turn 7. You can take your time finishing the puzzle however you like.


If you use this strategy, you'll also need something like Native Village or Island, since you can't trash anything permanently.

11807
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Gainer
« on: March 21, 2012, 04:11:29 am »
A combo Black Market/Vault that puts the gained card into your hand immediately? That is just insanely strong.

The idea of gaining an action card that can be played immediately is very strong, yes, but you still need to discard a bunch of cards to make it work.  It wouldn't be all that great unless the Kingdom had cards that worked with small hands.  Those types of combos should be acceptable though!

By using the discard mechanic, it is no longer a Black Market.  And I would say to keep it as Secret Chamber instead of Vault.  I think it keeps it from being insanely strong.

The trade-off I usually associate with the other gainers is the ability to easily gain more copies of a desired card in exchange for not getting to play those cards for an extra shuffle due to spending the first buy on the gainer. Conscript largely eliminates that cost, and so it needs to be inferior to the other gainers in some other respect, such as by being harder to use effectively, costing more, or both. 

Well, the trade off is that to gain an expensive card you need to discard most of your hand.  Sometimes this might be to your benefit (Library, etc.) but just because there is a strong combo doesn't mean that the card itself is too powerful.

As for allowing it to discard non-treasures, I think that would be a bit too strong in general, and set up totally crazy interactions with trimmed action-heavy decks; imagine throwing it into a scrying pool deck. Also this would eliminate the penalty for having conscripts collide, which I think would be a bad thing as this card may have a tendency to get spammed.

Again, having some strong combos doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.  The question is if it is really so out of hand compared to other interactions that are already in the game.  It doesn't sound over the top to me.

11808
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Gainer
« on: March 21, 2012, 12:11:21 am »
But I think 2X is just too much power. It allows for things like turn 3 goons plays, gain-and-play caravans for 2 coppers, gain-and-play minions (obviously for 4-card hands) for 3 coppers, etc. I think this also takes away the potentially most fun aspect the card, that you would need some way to get a hand with lots of treasure cards and an action left to make the best use of it.  You will already have plenty of power with the ability to chose an action to gain-and-play based on the game state at the time, especially with draw-up-to cards like library and watchtower, and things that like to be played when you are holding few or useless cards, like menagerie, minion and tactician. If you think 1X is too weak (I don't), maybe you could try 1+X, but that may start to feel contrived.

I think you're right about this. 2X would be too strong. I guess I'm torn, because discarding six treasures in order to gain a Nobles seems like a lot for a card that is supposed to be a gainer. The card is ideal for building engines (need more actions to keep your chain going? gain a bazaar and use it right now!), but in many engines you end up trashing all but your most valuable treasures. I guess I'm worried that by the time this could gain very useful cards (by the time you could reliably get this and five+ treasures into your hand with an action to spare), you might be discarding Golds and Silvers instead of Coppers. But like I said, probably 1X is more balanced. Should the cost still be $5 then?

Why not make it like Secret Chamber?

"+1 Action.  Discard any number of cards.  Gain an action card in hand costing up to $1 per card discarded."

This is stronger than only allowing treasure discards, and I think it is usually (but not strictly) weaker than $2 per treasure discarded.

11809
Game Reports / Re: Forced self-possession
« on: March 20, 2012, 05:42:30 pm »
You know you can choose to KC nothing, right?
It's not like Throne Room where it's mandatory; KC, even after playing it, is optional.

Hasn't Donald stated that TR is meant to be optional like KC, but they overlooked that case when writing the card text?  At the very least, it doesn't have any way to ensure compliance, though that can be built in with online play.  Does isotropic make throning an action mandatory?

11810
Dominion General Discussion / Re: 4/4 opening
« on: March 16, 2012, 02:16:56 pm »
Thief/pirate ship at $3 could lead to some horrible situations in a 4 player game.  Pirate ship is already a very strong card on some multiplayer boards.  I don't think that would be a good idea.

If you were going to do that, I think double Pirate Ship would be better.  Opening Thief isn't all that attractive to me... I don't really want so much copper in my deck, especially if we're playing with Pirate Ships.  Using Thief is just making it harder for your Pirate Ship to hit, and making it easier for theirs.

11811
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One action, big change
« on: March 15, 2012, 05:37:01 pm »
The action is a Black Market.
Your deck consists of a boatload of Actions, all on the table,including at least ten Goons some Hagglers, a King's Court, and another Black Market with which you had previously played a Potion.  It also includes some Fairgrounds and Gardens tucked under the Native Village mat.  Let's assume your opponent has seven Colonies and Provinces and enough points from Monuments to actually be ahead by 85, unrealistic as that may seem.

Previous to playing the Black Market, you had played a King's Court, so you get three buys from the BM deck, all of which you can easily afford.  Let's say you pick up Border Village (which gets Gardens from the main board), Silk Road, and Vineyards.  They're worth at least 30 VP from Goons, plus with the excess Haggler gains you can boost your Fairgrounds by 4 VP each and your Gardens by 2 VP each, and of course the Gardens, Vineyards, and Silk Road you buy will be worth a bunch of points too.

That should hopefully do it, I'll leave it to others to actually optimize the points.


It wasn't specified in the OP, but it was later clarified that there are no King's Courts in play.

11812
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One action, big change
« on: March 15, 2012, 03:09:25 pm »
That's clarified in reply # 2.

Ah.  Read it before the edit.

11813
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: One action, big change
« on: March 15, 2012, 01:59:09 pm »
The puzzle says really little about what has already happened during your turn.  Going with the already-proposed Masquerade idea, what if you had already played King's Court, so this "one action" (Masquerade) gets played three times?

Is that against the spirit of the puzzle?  It's a bit ambiguous to me.

11814
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Create a card inspired by another game
« on: March 12, 2012, 09:32:32 pm »
Carcassonne
Action $5
Place a Meeple ontop of a Kingdom card, gain one point per card left in the supply at the end of the game.
If more than one Meeple is on the pile, each player gains the number of points equal to cards in that supply.

This is actually a really cool idea.  To make it playable, it would probably have to be an action VP card "worth 1 VP for every X cards left in a pile marked by your [Meeple] token", and the action simply allows you to place or move your single token.

11815
The problem with scheme is that initially, scheme+workshop does not workshop as fast, on average, as double workshop, and later I would probably prefer to drain the workshop pile than take a scheme. And you do have the other problem you  mentioned of splitting your pile-draining on two different piles.
The flip side is that you would have a LOT less terminal collision.  That less terminal collision might allow you to have that extra copper in hand, which may be decent from $3 to $4.  I would agree that in a non-mirror, that workshops only is probably better for pile-draining purposes.  In a mirror, I would be incline to try schemes and hope that schemes don't 'drop' the one or two workshops in my deck.

Maybe two workshops and then schemes after that?

11816
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Create a card inspired by another game
« on: March 09, 2012, 07:26:34 pm »
A set based on Settlers of Catan (Cities and Knights expansion):

Robber -- Action - Attack

Cost: $5

Move the Robber token onto a supply pile other than the one it is on.  Reveal a random card from the hand of the player to your left.  If  it is a Treasure or Action card, put it into your hand.

Set up: place the Robber token on the Province pile.  Players may not buy that card as long as the Robber token is on it.

===========================================

Knight -- Action - Duration

Cost: $5

+1 Action

You may not discard this from play on the turn that it is played.  When you discard this card from play, choose one: +1 Card and every other player discards a Knight for no benefit; move the Robber token onto a supply pile other than the one it is on; or gain a card costing up to $4 and put it in your hand.

Set up: place the Robber token on the Province pile.  Players may not buy that card as long as the Robber token is on it.

===========================================

Barbarians -- Action

Cost: $7

When you buy this or play it, count the number of Knight cards in play.  If it is fewer than the number of tokens on the Barbarian mat, the player(s) with the fewest Knight cards in play gains a curse and discards three cards from their hand.  Otherwise, the one player with the most knight cards in play gains a Duchy and sets it aside until the end of the game.  If there is a tie, those players may each gain a Kingdom card costing up to $5.  After this, each player discards all Knights in play for no benefit.

Set up: at the beginning of the game, place one token on the Barbarian mat for each player.  Add a token when anyone buys a Province or Colony.

===========================================

Metropolis -- Action

Cost: $7

+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+1 Buy

+$1 for each empty Supply pile.  If you trash this card, put it in your discard instead.  You must trash a City card from your hand or play area in order to buy this card.

Set up: Add City to the Kingdom if it is not already available.

11817
Dominion General Discussion / Re: 4/4 opening
« on: March 09, 2012, 05:46:16 pm »
Remember a biggie here: Throne room. A lot of the really powerful 4s are action deficient so we don't have to worry too much about high odds disparities that break games. However, something like TR/Bridge on a peddler/salvager board can make 3 peddlers for the guy who hits it, and jack all for the guy who doesn't. Likewise, TR/Cutpurse just destroys hands. Even something simple like TR/Smithy is pretty insane if you have it hit (gold in deck/hand on T4). This can create a lot of variance in games and make it the strongest move in multiplayer, every single time.

Another shot I think might be important is multiple kinds of attacks. For instance it I can play both handsize reduction and cursers it sucks for you on a 5/2 opening. Do you go library to fight hand size reduction or do you go for trading post to fight curses?

Would TR/X really be a good opening?  It's more likely for TR to miss the other action than to have them line up, isn't it?  In that case, TR is just a dead card.

Also, if you are working on a 4/4 opening, your opponent would have the same or 5/3, no?

11818
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Emptying a pile as fast as possible.
« on: March 07, 2012, 12:25:39 am »
You arent missing something. I wasn't thinking. Should be a hamlet instead of a woodcutter. I'll update that.

I edited my post too -- I thought maybe you were thinking Worker's Village.  Hamlet works too.

Am I going overboard on spoilers tags? :P

11819
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Emptying a pile as fast as possible.
« on: March 07, 2012, 12:23:34 am »
Has there been a puzzle posted for fastest way to 3-pile?  It would probably involve Talisman and +buy shenanigans like this.  If not, maybe haggler.... and maybe something with Duchy/Duchess?  Ill-Gotten Gains?


2 player game

Both players open Woodcutter/Embargo.

On turn 3 Player 1 embargoes the curses and buys 2, gaining 4 total.
Player 2 embargoes the curses buying 2, gaining 6 total.
Pile empty.


How can they embargo and buy 2?  Embargo doesn't give +buy and Woodcutter doesn't give +action.  Am I missing something?  Did you mean Worker's Village?

11820
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The BMU kingdom
« on: March 05, 2012, 03:05:41 am »
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you draw $2, isn't Embargo clearly worth it? And Cellar doesn't seem like a horrible choice either. I'd be surprised if BMU were optimal in any kingdom that has decent $2's.

Edit: Indeed, opting to buy an Embargo with $2 if you don't want an Estate slightly outperforms BMU in Geronimoo's simulator, where the Embargo will just be used on Curses in this matchup.
  Win: 47.3% +/- 0.4%
  Loss: 44.4% +/- 0.4%
  Tie: 8.4% +/- 0.2%
(Confidence intervals are with 99% confidence.)

A single Cellar (when you draw $2 and don't want an Estate) does OK too:
  Win: 46.8% +/- 0.4%
  Loss: 45.2% +/- 0.4%
  Tie: 8.1% +/- 0.2%

Hm, any cards that can replace those without improving the Kingdom then? :P

11821
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A new card idea
« on: March 05, 2012, 02:55:53 am »
That doesn't give me the throne room affect I want. How about this:
Stock
type: treasure
cost: 5
Choose a treasure card in your hand. Play this card like you would plat that treasure
This way you can play this card as treasures like bank or quarry.

I'd change it to "choose a treasure card in play" to avoid the sad situation where you accidentally play it last (or end up pulling it up last via Adventurer or Venture).

As Tables said, this would be neat in games with Platinum or alternate Treasures.  It also makes it difficult to price... $5 would be OK in those scenarios, but in a game where Gold is the best treasure, it would probably be completely ignored at $5.

A problem that remains -- what happens if this is the only Treasure card have in your hand?  Is it completely worthless then?

11822
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan card: Emerald Mine
« on: March 05, 2012, 02:49:14 am »
I actually really like this, and the name is clever.  Have you play-tested it?

11823
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The BMU kingdom
« on: March 05, 2012, 02:44:01 am »
For a kingdom where BMU is optimal, what about this?

King's Court
Throne Room
Golem
Scrying Pool
University
Quarry
Secret Chamber
Cellar
Embargo
Contraband

The idea here is that you have very action-oriented cards (KC, TR, Golem, Scrying Pool) but no worthwhile actions.  University is pointless because you have no worthwhile action cards to either gain or buy.  Quarry is useless because it only really helps with KC, and again -- nothing worth playing thrice. 

Secret Chamber isn't all that helpful... maybe if you're heavily greened, but it's probably better to just keep getting more money then.  Likewise for Cellar -- it just takes up a spot in your hand

I expect Embargo to be rather useless on a BMU board because, if it is the obvious dominant strategy, both you and your opponent will be buying the same cards and anything you Embargo is just as likely to hurt you as your opponent, and then it's you who has wasted the turn picking it up.  Maybe if you were lucky enough to get a few silver or gold before your opponent, you might embargo it, but is it worth the turn to buy it?

Contraband is probably not all that useful.  You're probably not going to get enough money to want the +Buy, especially with the penalty that comes with it.

Are there any changes that could be made to make the Kingdom even worse?  I avoided cantrips like Peddler and Hamlet because those could potentially be combined with KC for bigger draw.

Apologies if this is hijacking the thread.  I just thought it would be interesting to try designing a Kingdom where BMU is best.

11824
Game Reports / Re: When to ignore Sea Hag (?)
« on: March 05, 2012, 01:29:53 am »
Finally: why didn't this earn PileDriver for curses?  I had all 10, and I won.  Other cards give PileDriver even if you trash them later on, right?

Maybe it only counts it if you actually buy them, rather than have them given to you.

11825
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Dominon analogies
« on: March 04, 2012, 03:05:02 am »
King's Court: Throne Room : : Smithy : Moat with no attacks : : Witch: Young Witch ? Maybe?

I'd say no to Witch : Young Witch, but:

King's Court : Throne Room :: Smithy : Moat with no attacks :: Expand : Remodel :: Gold : Silver  ;)

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