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Messages - Fabian

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626
Game Reports / Re: On not giving in to temptation
« on: December 01, 2011, 12:14:29 pm »
I'd definitely go with Familiar, for the same kind of reason why you lose 90% of the Silver/Chapel mirrors where your opponent hits his Chapel on turns 3/4, and you don't; Chapel is (comparatively) super unimpressive when you don't get going "right away", so to speak. Buying Chapel after the first reshuffle, not drawing it until some point during the second reshuffle (which is already reasonably late in the game), probably only getting to trash 3 cards at best, while passing up an insanely strong card (Familiar).. that's a lot of opportunity cost involved.

Chapel is one of the most "exponentially" powerful cards I can think of. That is, a card that gets stronger the earlier you use it. I mean, there's a reason why you always buy it on turns 1/2, and never later. Treasure Map is another card like that, which I'd basically never consider if I didn't pick one up on turns 1/2. My gut feeling tells me that a turn 3 Chapel won't do you much good compared to the alternative.

627
Game Reports / Re: familiar
« on: December 01, 2011, 11:24:22 am »
My gut feeling is that going for the Treasure Map on turn 7 (!) is a very sizeable mistake. That said, I think 4 Gold and Platinum (if he draws Gold*4 + Estate*, I think his winning chances go down very very significantly, as he won't be getting to 9 as easily in the future without that Platinum) by turn 7 might just be tough to overcome no matter what on this board, and would feel ok calling this loss to a lucky Treasure Map.

*On closer inspection, I see he had already trashed all 3 Estates by then. Oh well, nice draws I guess.

628
I haven't thought about it like that before, but I really agree. A lot of the things I wish I could get answered through simulations happen later on in the game, not as part of a carefully formulated strategy from turn 1. I imagine it's no small task to implement, but I think it would definitely be cool.

629
Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry
« on: November 28, 2011, 10:24:38 pm »
Dear Vlad,

I'm sorry you opened Witch/nothing to my Silver/Silver and played 8 Witch (actually 9, but I managed to get two in there as well, so only 8 curses were dealt) on me by your 11th (!) turn, only to still lose pretty comfortably somehow. Kind of a crazy game, still not sure how I didn't lose horribly :)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201111/28/game-20111128-191858-f399c17d.html

630
2011 / Re: Schedule and Results: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships
« on: November 28, 2011, 08:34:49 pm »
Thief Division:

Fabian (2) vs klaus33 (63) 4-0 to Fabian

Game 1
After opening Spice Merchant, and buying a second as well, I pick up a number of Minions and Peddlers (from the Woodcutter effect of Spice Merchant) and a King's Court, after which my deck is quite powerful and I begin to buy Colony on turn 11. On turn 19, I buy #7, and klaus has no chance of a comeback and buys the last one on turn 20.

Game 2
I open Silver/Jack and klaus opens Steward/Jack. He gets some nice trashing going early on, and I'm not feeling great about my chances a few turns in. He goes for Harems over Gold, which, while those points end up being decently relevant in the late game, possibly prevents him from buying a Province or two, and in the end I can snag the penultimate Province safely, and from there on I can defend the advantage comfortably until I can get the last Province as well. Quite a close game.

Game 3
klaus opens nothing/Laboratory while I open nothing/Jester with the plan of buying Silver on 3+4, Laboratory on 5, Gold on 6 and Province on 8 for the foreseeable future. At some point in the late game I go with an Oasis at 3, and I pick up a Duchy on 5 in the late game, otherwise this went according to script. I like my Jester opening here.

Game 4
Great, Fishing Village/Torturer. klaus said after the game he, being quite new to Dominion, didn't realize the power of that combo until it was too late, and so this game is pretty uninteresting. I buy Fishing Village at 3/4, Torturer at 5+, and when I have 6 Torturer I start buying Province. Boring game which is pretty much won entirely by an extremely high powered combo which, as klaus put it, he'll remember from now on :)

The games were quite quick, but I enjoyed playing you klaus, and I think you played well for being new to the game. Good luck in the future, maybe we'll meet again in the next tournament :)

631
2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships Rules
« on: November 28, 2011, 02:53:41 pm »
Kirian, I appreciate your side of the argument, but if you're seriously trying to pass off that 90% number (which has now morphed into an automatic 1-0 lead) as real, no one is going to take you seriously.

632
2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships Rules
« on: November 28, 2011, 01:26:09 pm »
moving away from the rules of dominion?

is only a small deviation from the original rules.

Not really sure what's going on here, but I don't think I understand your post since you seem to be agreeing that using identical starting hands is moving away from the rules. It also seems theory is specifically saying he's catering to a group of players, namely the top seeds, with this decision.

Anyway I don't think it's a huge deal I guess, but I'm firmly in favor of allowing 5/2 vs 4/3 splits, both in regular play and in this tournament. I'm a top seed too, so supposedly I shouldn't be. Oh well :)

633
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Leaderboard change
« on: November 27, 2011, 05:49:41 pm »
Well, finding myself in second place on a leaderboard was a nice surprise!

634
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Leaderboard change
« on: November 24, 2011, 10:08:03 am »
Can we at least please have the old leaderboard back too :( This seriously is making me sad (admitedly probably more than it should though).

635
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Leaderboard change
« on: November 24, 2011, 09:56:27 am »
Let me add my voice to the list of players who greatly dislike this change. The reasons have already been outlined above by other posters, but please consider them.

636
2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships Registration
« on: November 21, 2011, 05:05:24 pm »
Fabian, GMT+1

637
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Why can't i get any better?
« on: November 21, 2011, 03:23:29 pm »
To add my two cents, I don't think simulator work is at all necessary to improve past level 30, but I really do think it's by far the best way to improve once you're already very very strong (say level 40ish or whatever). In my mind, it's no coincidence that WW is in the top3 players on isotropic I respect the most, and Geronimoo seems to have become a pretty scary opponent, too :)

I feel like if I want to get significantly better at this game at this point, I need to learn to work the simulators (or ask smart questions to get the simulator guys to do the work for me.. not really feasible in the long run :) ). Just learning little nuggets like Witch crushing Familiar is very helpful to me, despite being "very good" (around level 40).

Edit: Just to clarify, the stuff Gero mentions in the post above mine is exactly the type of stuff I'm after, but might not be so important for a level 25 or level 30 player. The closer you and your opponent are, skill-wise, the bigger effect luck will have on the outcome of the game. Imo this gets magnified, in a way, at very high levels; if a very strong player plays another very strong player, it's probably not reasonable to expect big mistakes from either player (from the perspective of a "theoretically optimal" way of playing). At that point, something as simple as opening Potion/nothing with a 4/3 opening might be the biggest edge you can reasonably gain, whereas at the "level 25" sort of level, you could (probably) easily make hugely more important, and less subtle, improvements.

638
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The advantage of going first
« on: November 14, 2011, 06:01:04 pm »
I'm curious what kind of win percentages (strong) players have in the different positions. I have a gut feeling that the difference in win% from positions 1 and 2 is bigger for me than for most. Here are my councilroom stats, look out of the ordinary to you (During most of this sample, I've played the strongest players I could find, then in the last couple hundred games, I've mostly played +-10 auto-match)?

Pos 1 525-273-15, 1.317
Pos 2 507-424-25, 1.089

My theory on why this might be is that strong players will tend to have a greater advantage going first than weaker players (this includes me of course) have. So if I mostly play strong players while going second, their lead in tempo will be tough to overcome since they make fewer mistakes, thus allowing for fewer chances to catch up. The same is true in reverse; while I face pretty strong players when going first, I'm guessing I give them fewer chances than the average player to catch up on my lead in tempo. Sound reasonable? Does this hold true for other peoples' numbers?

Also, looking at these numbers, it's depressing (but also good I guess, heh) to think how much more often I play second than first :)

639
Dominion World Masters / Re: Dominion WM Kingdom Sets
« on: November 11, 2011, 05:27:46 pm »
That's probably true, but they did say before the tournament that all sets would be announced ahead of time, to "give people a chance to practice" (ugh)

Your guess is right, that's my buddy. Too bad I couldn't be there, next year you'll get tougher opposition :p

640
Dominion World Masters / Re: Dominion WM Kingdom Sets
« on: November 11, 2011, 04:40:33 am »
Lekkit, at Swedish Nationals, I know they said the ten sets would be revealed beforehand, which struck me as the most idiotic way possible of having a Dominion tournament, and part of the reason why I didn't go (also I was sick and stuff).

Btw my buddy, who reached the semifinals, said you played well :)

641
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 22, 2011, 06:59:20 pm »
If IGG cost $2 and had no on-gain curse, I can't really see me ever buying it outside of Gardens decks. Clearly guided and WW are very smart cookies though, so I'm not sure what I'm missing. I mean, I think Fool's Gold kinda sucks, but at least it has some sort of engine potential; I just don't see the $2 cost IGG (basically) ever doing anything good. Kind of an uninteresting discussion though, I guess :)

642
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 22, 2011, 09:51:15 am »
Cache as a strongish opener makes some sense to me. I've considered the card to be basically crap until now, but I haven't thought much about it in a turn 1/2 context. Will try it out if given the opportunity, but I feel like a lot of other $5 cards are stronger still to open with on turns 1 and 2.

IGG is kinda neat, but not spectacular by any means. Having the option of gaining a Copper is indeed a huge plus; games don't go long enough for that Copper to be a super huge liability, compared to what benefits it gives you on the turn you need it.

Haven't considered Develop much as a mid/late game card, but I suppose it could be pretty good on occasion. As an opener, it seems to be terrible in my opinion.

Really liking Crossroads still. Not for every board obviously, but I've done some tremendeously powerful things with that card.

The FPS player in me can't resist a good Highway every now and then, but it's probably not the best choice a lot of the time. Who doesn't like powerful engines though? :)

Kinda really liking most (all?) of the $5 card drawers so far. Also Spice Merchant has felt like a great opener to me so far.

Just some quick thoughts after having played some games. I've done reasonably well, and quite like this set overall even though there are more than a few super boring cards, for sure.

643
Dominion General Discussion / Re: [spoiler] Full Hinterlands card list
« on: October 20, 2011, 06:42:44 am »
Jack of all Trades is a lot better than you might think. It does a lot of very mediocre things, but don't let that fool you. As long as you're not building some elaborate treasureless engine, this is an elite opener (it beats Envoy for instance and is almost a coin flip against double Mountebank)

Based on the limited play I've seen with JoaT, this blows my mind. I'd have been inclined to agree with chwhite on this, for sure. Guess I'll need to give it a few more chances :)

644
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, can you find me a post where either of those claims is made? It's possible I missed it.

645
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« on: September 17, 2011, 02:01:56 pm »
I do think I will easily be the strongest player there, but I still do expect a fair number of somewhat competent players. A friend of mine who I consider to be very good is playing, at the very least. I also know a few of the "other" people who will be playing (like my ex and her recent boyfriend, go figure) who hover around level 20 on isotropic for instance, and I expect the other players in their playing group to be of sort of similar strength. I definitely do expect the level of play to be high enough that more than 50% of players will realize Workshop/Gardens is a combo, especially so since they've been able to prepare/discuss the sets, if they want. We'll see if I'm completely off tomorrow :)

Anyway, thanks for the simulating. Getting 8 Workshop sounds insane to me, I would expect that number to change significantly if two, (or even one?), more player(s) go for Gardens? I'll admit I'm not familiar with the simulator, though I should be if I want to get better at this game. I guess I have one evening to familiarize myself with it before tomorrow :)

Thanks DG for the rulebook tip, here are 5 more setups that will be played tomorrow, if someone wants to take a stab at commenting them :)

Cellar, Market, Militia, Mine, Moat, Remodel, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter, Workshop

Adventurer, Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Chapel, Feast, Laboratory, Market, Mine, Moneylender, Throne Room

Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Council Room, Festival, Library, Militia, Moat, Spy, Thief, Village

Cellar, Chapel, Feast, Gardens, Laboratory, Thief, Village, Witch, Woodcutter, Workshop - Particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on Chapel vs Gardens strategies in 4p games

Bureaucrat, Cellar, Festival, Library, Market, Remodel, Smithy, Throne Room, Village, Woodcutter

646
Dominion General Discussion / Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« on: September 17, 2011, 09:29:26 am »
Hey guys,

Tomorrow I'm playing a live tournament for the first time. From what I understand, it's going to be 4-player games, with a randomly chosen card set for each game, chosen from a pool of 10 pre-selected sets. The first few rounds will feature only the base game, with the finals also including expansions and 1v1 play.

I've really only played 1v1, random cards, on isotropic, and I think I'm somewhere between very good and great at that game (typically level 38-41 on isotropic), but 4 player, pre-selected, base game only, is obviously a rather different beast. I'm confident I can beat up random bad players well enough to advance to the later stages, but I feel like I should probably do my homework if I'm facing decentish players who have prepared with the sets we're playing with and are more familiar with 4 player strategy than I am.

So, can anyone give me a crash course in semi-advanced 4 player strategy, or point me in a direction where I can read about it? Additionally, maybe we can discuss proper strategies for the card sets we're playing? I know the 5 sets from the rulebook will be included, as well as 5 others which I don't know yet.

"Witch, Mine, Militia, Gardens, Feast, Workshop, Village, Moat, Market, Smithy"

This seems to be one of the sets, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. Gardens in 4p games isn't exactly my forte :)

Any thoughts on any of the sets from the rulebook would be interesting to read, as well. I don't know exactly which cards are included in those sets, so maybe someone could post them? :)

Thanks for reading!

647
Didn't feel like responding to my previous post huh? :p No worries man, it's all good.

648
Guys I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it's like all of you are missing the point with the player we're discussing on purpose:

tat doesn't automatch*. Automatching isn't an issue here. tat selects his opponents so he never plays strong players. Plenty of strong players in here are reporting challenging him, and him never playing them. Looking over his playing history confirms this. That's what I take issue with and think is lame, I didn't even mention automatching in this thread until very late in response to others talking about it.

Automatching is, as far as I know, a pretty sweet system I don't have many problems with.

*It's possible that he does use automatch, I don't know. It's not all he does though (see above).

649
Me: "Do you get "playing exclusively weak players and winning 76% of your matches against them will result in a higher ranking than strong players playing other strong players" then?"

You: "No"

Are you quite sure you haven't said anything about playing weak players?

I know you started out arguing about your own experiences with playing strong players vs automatching. I was arguing that tat's ranking has been raised artificially by choosing to play exclusively weak players while refusing to play strong players, and that this choice has lead to his ranking being higher than what his actual skill reflects. To this, you responded "No" (proof: see above), and the only way to reconcile that with him being by far the highest rated player on the leaderboard is if he was the strongest player, as well. As you point out, you and I don't know him well enough to definitely say he's not, but it's extremely likely he isn't (proof: his refusal to play any high ranked players), and his incredibly high ranking has more to do with the unique method he chooses his opponents (=artifically raising his rating). Even if he actually is the strongest player, we don't know that as you point out, so a resounding "No" to the above question is still not logically consistent. An "I don't know" or "Possibly" might be more reasonable in that case. I do agree that he's almost definitely at least "quite good", fwiw.

Whether all this is important or not is certainly arguable. I'm not losing any sleep over it, to be sure, but I don't think that means I can't point out that I think it's somewhat lame, on a Dominion Message Board.

Finally, based on your last paragraph, you're missing the point about tat and his method of choosing players. It's not the automatching in itself that's the issue; to be honest I don't even know if he automatches. The "issue" is that he plays exclusively weak players, and refuses to play against strong players. I don't think there's any problem with automatching, at least not that I'm aware of.

650
Thisisnotasmile, "playing weak players does not artificially increase your rating" and "I don't know if tat would be the strongest player if he played other strong players" are not logically consistent statements. Let's leave the discussion there.

Dave, I was asking Thisisnotasmile, who was the one making statements about it. I appreciate your opinion too though :)

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