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11301
Dominion General Discussion / Shuffle Definition
« on: February 26, 2012, 06:42:52 pm »
Hey all:

Came across a question playing in real life last night with some friends. In one of the games we noticed that a friend had some unusual discard and shuffle patterns.  I noticed once when he had played a witch and on that turn bought a second witch. After this was completed he put the used witch on top of his discard pile and his bought witch on the bottom of the discard pile. When I asked him why, he said so that after he shuffled the two witches would be less likely to collide since one would be shuffled into the top half and the other into the bottom half--this was a game without any +action villages.

This led to me being a little skeptical of the ethics of doing so and led to further questions about our group's shuffling. One person for instance doesn't shuffle but instead twice does this: puts 1 card ontop of another, next on the bottom, the next on the top, the next on the bottom-- "to get a greater separation of cards that were used at the same time," in her words. 

For people that have played in real life tournaments how has shuffling worked? How many shuffles are required? It does not appear that the rulebook has anything to say other than shuffling must occur.

My friends and I resolved to let each player shuffle their own way since we were just playing for fun, but I wanted to know what this community thought.

11302
Help! / Scrying Pool and Apothecary
« on: February 21, 2012, 11:12:43 pm »
Can anyone direct me to some commentary on how to play both of these cards, together or independently. Any game logs of ideal play or an article of some sort would be great. I've searched in here and couldn't quite find what I was looking for in way of advice. These are two cards I struggle a lot in playing correctly. They both look like fun, powerful cards, but I consistently misplay them.

Thanks

11303
Dominion Articles / Re: Ill-Gotten Gains
« on: February 15, 2012, 09:59:40 am »
Ill-gotten gains has slowly become one of my favorite cards to play with because it completely changes the dynamics of the game with the almost guaranteed 2-pile ending.

here is a game where my opponent got a 5/2 opening while I had a really hard time mustering $5. By turn 7 I had given up on the IGG war--I had only bought one thus far--and started to green using Trade Route as a means of trashing the curses. I ended the game with 6. But my deck was a complete mess, I had bought monument first turn and only ended up playing it 3 times--which ended up being the difference in the game.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/15/game-20120215-065330-dab404bd.html

IGG seems to change a lot of the rules for buys/greening/late game.

11304
Tournaments and Events / Re: Ryder Cup?
« on: February 14, 2012, 04:01:26 pm »
50-100 players? How about just 10?

Well, the DS tournament was 256 people and it was full in 3 days. IsoDom 3 was posted just here on the forum and had over 32 contestants very quickly too. So I think 10 is really low...

But if it wasn't an "official" tournament, but "forum" tournament, then 20-30 seems more likely...but 10 is still too low...

As someone that would miss the cut if there were just 12--Ryder Cup has 12 people on two teams--I think it is more appropriate to have a smaller number.  The idea of captains is cool, with the highest rated non-American being invited to captain and pick a team of non-Americans and the highest rated American being invited to captain and pick a team of Americans based on strategy and skill.

On another note I have been thinking some mid-major tournaments might be fun if people are interested. Cap them at ~ level 30. Kind of a NIT of Dominion compared to NCAA March Madness. That way there is no way possible I can lose to Rabid in the first round again, again.

11305
I am in Salt Lake City and interested.

11306
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: A ____ but not a ____ Riddle
« on: February 13, 2012, 06:54:09 pm »
Happy that everyone is getting this, but not glad

11307
Puzzles and Challenges / A ____ but not a ____ Riddle
« on: February 12, 2012, 06:09:54 pm »
Here are four

A Council Room but not a Governor

An Inn but not a Warehouse

A Throne Room but not a King's Court

Geronimoo but not WanderingWinder

Add your own if you figure it out

11308
Dominion Articles / Re: Ill-Gotten Gains
« on: February 12, 2012, 06:01:37 pm »
Here is some advice for what not to do when your opponent goes for an IGG rush--buy cities to the point that they are the third pile that runs out leaving the score at 3 to -7.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/12/game-20120212-145741-e2dcfff3.html


11309
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Most Vetoed Card?
« on: February 10, 2012, 10:48:59 pm »
I've seen a large rise in varient victory point cards as of late, especially Silk Road, Tunnel and Duke. I wonder if WanderingWinder's excellent articles on them have anything to do with this... I personally am now much less likely to veto them, but the opposite seems to be true the last little while.

I veto Ghost Ship, Potion cards when there is only one around and oddly enough and occasionally Tactician--even though it is one of my favorite cards to play.  Fool's Gold, Jack and Ill-Gotten Gains also get vetoed here and there by me although I have begun to enjoy playing with all three more and more.

11310
Game Reports / Re: Triple Mandarin/Duke
« on: February 07, 2012, 07:24:58 pm »
Glad to be an inspiration. Look forward to reading it.

11311
Game Reports / Re: Triple Mandarin/Duke
« on: February 07, 2012, 07:13:01 pm »
I think you want a hoard on your first $6. I pretty much KNOW you want to be buying copper over nothing starting turn 1.

I wanted one a lot, but my first $6 was on turn 11... I think.... It is hard to tell because I may have put a copper back on top on turn 6, but I think not. The logs on councilroom don't let me know what is put back on top. I know I had $6 on turn 11 before I put a copper back on top because I couldn't decide between Hoard or Duchy. I felt that turn 11 was too late to take great advantage of Hoard, perhaps it wasn't but that was my logic at the time. How late in the game would you take a Hoard over a Duchy in a Duchy/Duke rush?


The lack of plus buys was concerning. Horse Traders definitely has an advantage there. Woodcutter was in the game. I thought about getting one instead of a lighthouse. I think that would have been the better move. If it had collided with a mandarin I could have just put it back on top. Herbalist--if I had been able to swing a Hoard might also have been an idea...


11312
Game Reports / Triple Mandarin/Duke
« on: February 07, 2012, 11:14:21 am »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/07/game-20120207-080625-0bc1e91d.html

Develop, Duke, Embargo, Herbalist, Hoard, Lighthouse, Mandarin, Oracle, Talisman, and Woodcutter

I know I didn't play this perfectly, nor did my opponent. Embargo was present and he easily could have put a huge damper on my Duchy rush by embargoing them. But aside from that I have been trying to use Silk Road and Dukes whenever they are on the board. In this situation  it appeared to me that since I started out 5/2 I might be able to use Mandarin to accomplish my goal. I ended up buying 3 Mandarins on my first 3 turns and then using the 5 copper again to buy my first Duchy. I think overall the strategy worked pretty well, I won. But not by much. My opponent had a $7 late that had it been $8 would have put him over the top of me.

Any thoughts on this Triple Mandarin route to Duchy/Duke? I thought it was comparable to Horse Traders. Horse Traders is much stronger but Mandarin had some nice perks being able to put a Mandarin back on top of my deck if I drew two of them together. Would Double Mandarin or Quadruple Mandarin have been better? Triple seemed best to me.

As an aside I think I would have really liked some treasure--I didn't buy any except a copper very late in the game--a silver or two could have opened things up a bit I think

11313
Dominion Articles / Re: Ill-Gotten Gains
« on: February 06, 2012, 09:22:47 pm »

Anyone else had success with IGG and a trasher?

I recently had this game:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120205-202617-deb3775a.html

The presence of IGG, Border Village and Feast turns Develop, of all cards, into an absolute beast. Featuring the relatively rare "Play a Feast, gain an Estate" maneuver at the end.

Cool idea. Doubt I would have thought of that

11314
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« on: February 04, 2012, 05:37:39 pm »
(Edit: 4-1 to Rabid)  Rabid 2, Yuma 0  To be finished later in the week, Yuma had to go to work.


Man, playing against Rabid was super intimidating as he had thoroughly beat me in the first round of last tournament and while I feel I have improved a lot since then there is still a large gap between him and me. I made a lot of mistakes and often an extremely key mistake during the buy phase that hurt me a lot. Rabid is a great player who seems to rarely make those kind of mistakes. To say the least, I learned a lot from playing him.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-121431-537af475.html
I think I won this on the back of start player + familiar, for a controlled 3 pile finish.


To add to this, a key mistake on my part was buying a third Familiar--with only two or three curses left--instead of a university. Rabid also used Watchtower much more effectively--that is one card I have a really hard time synergizing.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-122404-def4d631.html

Interesting game, 5/2 start for me with the options of: Margrave, Ghost Ship, City, Saboteur, with Joat on the board in a colony game. I went for Margrave into alchemist, but I think Joat / Nothing might have been better. I was way behind in mid game so planned to empty Alchemist to power up the City's, then got some lucky draws for the come back.


This game's key mistake was buying a second jack. I feel the first one really helped me get to an early lead. But the second one just cluttered up my hand too much.



Game 3:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-090549-e09f4d2e.html
Yuma opens Embassey | embargo (to prevent me from going Scrying pool), to my Salvager | Silver.
Yuma gets unlucky and keeps drawing the embargo dead, I win with BM+ Salvager.


That embargo kept coming up at the wrong time. I am glad I bought it but had a hard time with it. I think if I played this over again, on turn 7 I would play the embargo forgoing playing an embassy to buy another embassy. I would also not buy a second salvager, not sure why I did in the first place.



Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-091612-1023bb53.html
For what I hope is the last time, (but know it wont be) I under estimate Duke.

I was pretty ecstatic to finally win a game. Only my second ever victory over Rabid. Feast/Festival seemed to make sense in my head and it actually worked out pretty well. My deck started to stall out super bad toward the end, but I had enough of a lead that it didn't matter. 8 point Dukes are great.

Game 5:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-092529-7e9597dc.html
Sea hag into slow gardens
I guess I win this mostly due to start player, winning the curse war 6 - 4.

I didn't think of this game as a garden game from the beginning. I wonder if it would have been advantageous for me to go along my own strategy rather than to follow behind trying to catch up in gardens? I couldn't make up my mind and ended up buying some duchies when I should have bought gardens as a result.

All in all, I enjoy playing against Rabid, but I hope to not have to face him in the next tournament unless it is in a much later round.

11315
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Isotropic pictures?
« on: January 31, 2012, 12:41:39 pm »
Witch - Wizard of Oz
Pawn - Alice in Wonderland
Sea Hag - 75% sure this is from Popeye
Apprentice - Disney's Fantasia
Adventurer - Conan the Adventurer
Noble Bridgand - the old Robin Hood movie--although I would prefer the Disney Fox one to be on here
Minion - Lord of the Rings
Swindler - Fantastic Mr Fox?
Council Room - an engraving of King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table
You can see a real live Coppersmith by going on a tour to Iraq apparently http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/baghdad_souqs.html

I often thought Outpost was Château d'If, but it isn't

11316

And now I have voted and seen the results, I'm a bit baffled by them. Sets 2 and 9 are winning... why? is there some interesting thing in set 2 that I missed and the two finalists missed during the game? And set 9?

I was also surprised until I actually played set two with a friend. It is a fun set to play although my personal vote was for 8 because of its ability to make an Ambassador interesting.

11317
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« on: January 31, 2012, 08:35:35 am »
What are the odds. I played Rabid in the first round of last tournament and got superbly spanked 4-0. Hopefully I can at least win a game this time.

11318
2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four
« on: January 30, 2012, 08:34:18 pm »
In game two I was little surprised neither player went for Bureaucrat. Was that a trap card? In the two games I played against a friend using the same deck I was able to use Bureaucrat pretty effectively. Gaining the silvers w/o having to buy them helped in having enough economy once greening starting getting intense and putting a green card hurt him quite a bit when he was attempting to use his crossroads. There were a couple of times he only had two victory cards in hand with a crossroad and a played Bureaucrat forcing him to put one back on top, so that he was only able to draw one card with it--the card he just put on top.

How would have both players countered it, or just ignored it, if the other picked it up?

11319
Cards I would have bought with $5 over Market... Sea Hag, Swindler, Silver, Lab, Torturer. Mostly I rarely like Market and in this situation it does very little for you. Your first two no buys are bad luck, but from there Market does nothing but hurt. In the first couple of turns your Market can only produce $2 at best, and normally only $1 if it draws a curse or copper. Swindler might have been a good buy for your first turn to try and get some good luck and get rid of his Sea Hag, plus its $2 helps to buy your own Sea Hag in later turns. But I would have gone with Sea Hag instead first.

11320
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Qualifier
« on: January 25, 2012, 10:43:44 pm »
Yuma defeats ^_^_^_^ 4-3.

Here are game reports. I got a little long winded, sorry.
Yuma 49, ^_^_^_^ 41
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-170039-1431579c.html
Counting House, Farming Village, Horn of Plenty, Horse Traders, Monument, Silk Road, Spice Merchant, Swindler, Tunnel, and Workshop

This was a long game, taking 25 turns ending with 3 piles, Tunnels, Farming Villages and Silk Roads. We both opened Spice Merchant/Swindler I think with the intention to trash coppers and wreck havoc on each other. I was able to do so more giving out 3 curses.  I rarely like going for Tunnels but decided to with Horse Traders. Despite ^_^_^_^ trashing my H.T. on turn 7--and leaving me with 3 tunnels to clutter--I was able to use them relatively effectively for Golds. I bought the first province on turn 14--this was a long, drawn out game--causing ^_^_^_^ to panic--prematurely I think--into buying Silk Roads. He ended up with 7 of them and 7 estates. I bought a couple more provinces until I felt comfortable and ended the game on piles buying the last Farming Village.


Game 2 ^_^_^_^ 40, Yuma 39
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120125-181528-b9ee1d07.html
Baron, Explorer, Fishing Village, Great Hall, Harvest, Hoard, Horse Traders, Oracle, Treasury, and Watchtower

I don't know what I was thinking, but I opened FV/Watchtower while ^_^_^_^ opened Horse Traders/Fishing Village. His strategy proved to be the best. This game was unusual because of the weak $5 we both basically ignored. ^_^_^_^ bought a couple of Treasuries, but I don't think they impact as much as his good use of HT. ^_^_^_^ dominated early game. I almost able to mount a comeback buying Duchies, ^_^_^_^ matched me, and bought an estate along the way, keeping his lead high enough throughout to maintain victory.

Game 3 ^_^_^_^ 59, Yuma 56
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-183113-e2b6f867.html
Conspirator, Fairgrounds, Gardens, Mine, Nobles, Possession, Potion, Quarry, Tactician, Trading Post, and Woodcutter

A Tactician game with Trading Post, Nobles and Quarry. ^_^_^_^ was able to win the Nobles split 6/4 because I decided to go for a Gold and Nobles instead of 2 Nobles on turn 10. I think that proved to be the breaking point. It was also an interesting game due to Gardens and Fairgrounds being present. I attempted to use the 2 alternative V.P. cards to come back and almost did, but ^_^_^_^ again countered with enough green to stay ahead the whole game.


Game 4 ^_^_^_^40, Yuma 25
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-184433-d3a916e6.html
Ambassador, Border Village, Bureaucrat, Coppersmith, Explorer, Highway, Library, Lighthouse, Swindler, and Torturer

An Ambassador game where I tried Lighthouse/Ambassador while ^_^_^_^ opened Ambassador/Ambassador. I must have been distracted by the USMNT game against Panama that was on in the background because I didn't buy a single money card the whole game. Regardless I think ^_^_^_^ would have won with double ambassador and torturers hitting more often than mine despite my abundance of Lighthouses.

Here I was down 3-1 and feeling pretty miserable...

Game 5 Yuma 30, ^_^_^_^ 16
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-185019-2645af74.html
Black Market, Bureaucrat, City, Cutpurse, Jack of All Trades, Mountebank, Potion, Scout, Steward, Vineyard, and Worker's Village

^_^_^_^ went Double Jack, while i tried something I hadn't before and bought a Mountebank along the way to my Double Jack. I am still not sure if this was the best move, but my Jack and Mounte only collided once--I opted to play Jack that turn.  His Double Jack collided more than normal, hindering his ability to trash the 2 curses I was able to get on him. I don't know if the 2 curses and 2 coppers made that big of an impact or not.


Game 6 Yuma 43, ^_^_^_^ 32
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-190435-24feefdf.html
City, Coppersmith, Embargo, Governor, Nobles, Pearl Diver, Potion, Trade Route, Trading Post, University, and Warehouse
 
Probably the most interesting game we played with University and both Governors and Cities to obtain from it. We ended up splitting the Governors, but I ended up trashing two for Nobles--using other Governors to do so--as the game winded down. We both commented that it was an odd game and that we didnt' play optimally. ^_^_^_^ pointed out that Big Money probably would have defeated both of us.


 
Game 7 Yuma 34, ^_^_^_^ 33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/25/game-20120125-191607-8768df50.html
Apothecary, Apprentice, Conspirator, Embargo, Envoy, Harem, Margrave, Torturer, Tunnel, Wishing Well

A game of Apprentice and Envoy as we both Embargoed cards we didn't like--Harem, Torturer and Margrave.
This game was ultimately decided on draw luck at the end. As the tiebreaker, I thought that at turn 14 I was doomed because a Province buy would have lost me the game on first turn tie. However ^_^_^_^'s draw luck was atrocious at the end matching my Duchy buys on turn 14 and 15. Turn 16 I was in despair because I could only buy an Estate but then saw him unable to do anything after drawing (copper, province, duchy, duchy, apprentice). I was then able to buy a province for the win on turn 17.  ^_^_^_^ doesn't know this yet, but if he had trashed one of his Duchies on turn 16 instead of a copper, he would have won. By trashing the Duchy he would have drawn 5 cards--which were 2 golds, a copper and 2 provinces. Those two golds and a copper combined with the copper he already had would have been enough for a 36-27 victory. Luckily for me, that didn't happen.

Thanks ^_^_^_^, the games were great fun.

11321
Game Reports / Golden Salvager Deck?
« on: January 21, 2012, 11:31:52 am »
I looked to this if this situation had been discussed before in this forum but didn't see it.

A few days ago I accomplished my first Golden Deck with Bishops by accident. (I had read of it before but never accomplished it).  A few games after I came across this deck.

Bazaar, Chapel, Duke, Feast, Margrave, Pawn, Potion, Salvager, Shanty Town, Trader, and Transmute
game log here:  http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120119-163505-b1b03be5.html

My opponent didn't play optimally and neither did I, but I again stumbled into a Golden Deck situation but this time with Salvager.

I opened Salvager and Chapel because I couldn't make up my mind as to which one I liked more and decided to try both. I ended up up buying a silver my first turn because neither of the trashers came up, but ended up trashing it with Salvager on turn 5 to get a Gold. By turn 8 I had trashed everything but a Chapel, a Gold and a Salvager. I trashed the Chapel for the $2 and bought a Margrave, still not really sure what I was doing. Next turn I trashed the Margrave and bought a province with the $5 and gold. Next turn I trashed the province and and bought a province and silver with the $8 and gold. Next turn I did the same. Next turn I did the same but was able to buy a gold instead of a silver.

At turn 13 I had 2 golds, 2 silvers a salvager and a province and my opponent had bought a province making province trashing for gain a little more precarious. I bought another province, as did my opponent, and then the last turn bought another by trashing my gold for a 3 point win.  While it ended close I felt in control the whole time.

I realized that I didn't play optimally and neither did my opponent so I played against my self for a game using the same cards, again I am not the greatest player so this test isn't perfect.


But this time I played the non-Salvager player as if I was just playing a normal chapel strategy. Again Salvager with a small deck was successful with a 12 point win. In this game I bought the Margrave a little earlier and got rid of extra cards a bit later due to shuffle luck but my turn 9 I had a margrave, 2 Golds, a salvager and a silver. The biggest difference between this game and the previous one was that trashing provinces in this game on turns 10 and 13 allowed me to buy double provinces and end the game pretty quick.

After this long post... is this strategy--using chapel and salvager to get a golden deck variant--a viable one against better players or am I just lucky that I tried it out against mediocre players, including myself.


11322
Feedback / Re: Future DominionStrategy tournaments?
« on: January 18, 2012, 09:58:56 pm »
A lot of complaints from the current one seem to stem from the fact that a lot of weaker players are eliminated in the first round due to seeding and don't really get to play much.

The best sports competition in the world is the soccer--or football--World Cup, could we try something similar for Dominion? In the World Cup every team gets to play at least three times in the group stages. I imagine this would also work for dominion. Groups of 4 that play each other once. Wins are given x points and the top one or two from the group advance. In contrast to soccer, tiebreakers should not be solved using point differentials. In soccer the conditions are basically similar each game. In Dominion they are not. Instead a tiebreaker match could be used.

Seeding would still occur, and having best of 7 or 5 or 3 could still occur between individual opponents.

11323
GokoDom / Re: IsoDom 3 Sign-up
« on: January 18, 2012, 06:18:29 pm »
Along with the rest, i am in if room is available

11324
Game Reports / Re: My opponent opened 5/2 with IGG on the table.
« on: January 17, 2012, 10:11:06 am »
This has been said before, but a lot of it comes down to what you want out of a dominion game. If you are in it for the ranking and the status then having the same starting hand makes sense. But if you are in it for the fun, the strategy you might see this as a challenge and a chance to see if you can beat a really difficult situation.

I take the second approach, for one it is healthier--less stress when I don't get the 5-2 split.

Also, if you whine about this then any time you are on the beneficial side of a 5-2 split you should offer to restart the game or have both players skip turns until both players get a 4-3 start. But nobody does that.

11325
Game Reports / Big Money-Lookout
« on: January 12, 2012, 07:31:53 pm »
In this game http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/12/game-20120112-162025-a4a4a35a.html

Alchemist, Cartographer, Conspirator, Governor, Harvest, Herbalist, Inn, Laboratory, Lookout, Potion, and Thief

I had no intention of taking the strategy that I did at the end. I figured I would try something similar to my opponent in using Governor to get golds, maybe a lab and if possible some conspirator chains... Mostly I didn't have a great plan going in.  I started 3-4 lookout because I liked the idea of trashing early.

But in turns 5-8 I had 4 straight opportunities to buy gold. I opted to to this instead of Governor each time. The first times I thought, "hey these golds will help me get to Governors faster" and the last two "hey, I already have the golds Governor would get me, so I'll just take another one or two."

In the end I had 4the  Golds along with 5 silvers and started Greening pretty quick. I had read elsewhere that Lookout was bad for Big Money. But in this case the game was over pretty quick--13 turns. Did I luck out in getting those 4 straight golds--I am pretty sure luck was involved, but how much luck?  Or is lookout actually a viable option for big money?


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