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26

Rules Questions / Re: Minion and Diplomat

« on: October 11, 2022, 11:15:01 am »

If you reveal Diplomat from your 5 card hand, you draw 2 cards (now at 7 cards in hand) and discard 3 (now at 4 cards at hand). Since you have 4 cards in hand, Minion's attack won't affect you--only affects you if you have at least 5 cards in hand.

Also, as another note, not all "When another player plays an Attack card" reaction cards will protect you from all attack cards--just because it lets you do something when an Attack is played doesn't necessarily mean you will nullify the Attack.

27

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: September 18, 2022, 11:11:21 am »

To add another somewhat similar Souk interaction that was fun, I had a game recently with Pawn + Souk + Royal Carriage. The Pawn can really be any non-terminal action that you can play to reduce your hand size. I had a megaturn where I played the Pawns to reduce my handsize down to 1 Souk, and then I replayed the Souk several times and bought out the remaining provinces.

Pawn is actually not that impressive here. You either need good trashing to increase the odds of getting Souk powered up to $6 or more (where six plays will let you buy more than 4 provinces) or you need to wait a long time before you line up enough Pawns to make it viable to hit $6.

With trashing, you can manage quite well without the gravy from pawns. Chapel, for instance, can let hit a Rc every Souk play with ease. Then when you load out, you can play Souk for $6, call 5 Rcs, and cash out for $36 which is win against all but the fastest alternatives or most careful and intricate duchy dancers.

Without trashing, you are playing for a lot of luck to get enough Pawns in hand with Souk to actually make the megaturn. Pretty much anything that sifts with a penalty is wildly superior (e.g. Cellar, Dungeon, Warehouse) and even terminals can be worth using to fish for the megaturn (e.g. Vault, Storeroom).

Pawns are certainly nice, but generally if a board will manage to let Souk/Rc/Pawn dominate, it will do so with just Souk/Rc and that combo is strong enough to work even on a lot of boards with no non-terminal, no draw cash.

I should have mentioned that there was also good trashing in my game, which like you said is also very helpful or just really good sifting could be nearly as good. As far as Pawn goes, like I said, Pawn wasn't the critical component, and anything that could get my handsize down to just 1 Souk would have been just as good. Getting many Pawns actually worked out well in my game because I could cantrip them until I find my Souk(s) and then play the rest of the Pawns for Action and +1 coin so that I'm left with just 1 Souk in hand (and a bunch of RC on the mat).

But yeah, Souk/RC on its own with good trashing is probably just about as good--maybe some small sifting is necessary, but as long as you can line up Souk with multiple RC on the final turn, the RC also reduce your handsize on their own. In my game, I ended up playing most of the RC on previous turns, but I could have played several on the final turn as well.

28

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: September 16, 2022, 07:04:00 pm »

To add another somewhat similar Souk interaction that was fun, I had a game recently with Pawn + Souk + Royal Carriage. The Pawn can really be any non-terminal action that you can play to reduce your hand size. I had a megaturn where I played the Pawns to reduce my handsize down to 1 Souk, and then I replayed the Souk several times and bought out the remaining provinces.

29

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: my connection to the site now is always slow. everything starts black

« on: September 14, 2022, 10:14:47 am »

Maybe there were server issues or server maintenance was going on--same thing was happening to me yesterday and another time recently, but the site loads fine for me today. How is the site for you now?

30

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ways but for Treasures

« on: July 26, 2022, 06:09:14 pm »

I have played with this a little, but it's extremely challenging, especially because of the issue of starting with 7 Coppers.

I do think this is the big challenge with "Ways for Treasures."

Not exactly sure how this would impact things - i.e. you'd have to see how each of the above designs would have to change for this - but what if you had to spend a Buy to go down a Path? (or some cost, but using a buy fits with it being your buy phase / treasures)

So the original gold paved road (Trash this for $1) could work since also uses a buy.

In some ways this might make them too similar to events though? (I guess the different might be that they would all refer to "this" so it would be more of a variable costing event)

Just like how Donate and some Heirlooms can be game-warping, the same could be said of a game with a Path. It just becomes a different paradigm for that particular game, which I think is fine.

The obvious but non-elegant solution is to make coppers exempt, so make a "Path" only apply to any non-copper treasure.

31

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Weird combo: Trail + Berserker + Butterfly

« on: July 12, 2022, 03:28:45 pm »

Don’t you need Ferry to make Border Villages gainable for Berserker?

I was confused at first, too--like in mxdata's response to you, I think the longer version of what's happening is this:

1. With at least one action in play, play a Berserker as Way of the Butterfly to gain a Border Village
2. Choose Berserker for the cheaper card (the cheaper card from Border Village's gain)
3. Play that gained Berserker as Way of the Butterfly to gain a Border Village
4. Repeat steps 2-3 until the Border Villages empty

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.

« on: June 23, 2022, 11:06:05 am »

Barbarian is not a particularly swingy card. Swindler convert your early $5 into a Duchy, Barbarian just downgrades it to a $4.
I also fail to see why you equalized junking with downgrading a Province into a Duchy. Sure, once you hit that Duchy again you could claim that Province got swindled into an Estate (goes faster by the way in a Swindler/Peddler Kingdom) and thus we have some form of junking but that is really a stretch.

Rambling on about how supposedly overpowered a card is while ignoring what it actually thus is, well, just rambling.

I think there is a fair argument to say that some people find cards like these "unfun," regardless if they are actually overpowered or not, which like stated earlier in the thread, is more what is happening here.

Also, I have played one game where it was a single buy board with Barbarian along with good trashing, draw, and villages--I personally thought it was interesting but could see people say it was "unfun"; winning involved trying to play more Barbarians than the opponent and hoping to trash their victory cards and good action cards that they could only pick up one at a time. It was almost like knights except the knights didn't take each other out, prolonging the game where multiple attacks with random outcomes are being played each turn--like I said, not usually overpowered but situations like that come up where it can be "unfun" for some people.

33

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Bug with Way of the Mouse + Allies splits

« on: June 18, 2022, 03:30:43 pm »

I get the same thing, so it's probably a bug. I think I've seen Town Crier or one of the other rotating Allies cards as Way of the Mouse, so presumably it's only a card selection bug (can't remember for sure, though).

34

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Mobile app?

« on: June 17, 2022, 01:32:16 pm »

Yes, I believe it is still in beta and only on Android, but there is the Dominion app by Temple Gates Games (TGG).

Link to US version: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.templegatesgames.DominionAndroid&hl=en_US&gl=US

35

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Stash

« on: June 10, 2022, 10:36:28 am »

What Emissay should say to make this unambiguous:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.

Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.

Close, but this doesn't work--if you play Emissary when you have no cards in your discard pile, you shouldn't get the +1 Action and +2 Favors (nothing to shuffle).

How about this:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.

Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.

36

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons

« on: June 04, 2022, 03:07:07 pm »

By the way, just tested on Dominion Online and it does work as you all are saying--all the cards get set aside, I don't draw any cards, and I get the +1 action and +2 favors. I had one card left in my deck (the copper that I do draw) when I played Emissary.

Actually, what I've been saying is that you shouldn't get +1 Action and +2 Favors when you shuffle 0 cards because of Order of Masons.

I just meant that it's what everyone in this thread is saying happens now. I agree with you and vidicate that it's not really intuitive it should work the way that it currently does.

37

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons

« on: June 04, 2022, 01:51:23 pm »

I gotta say it’s kind of nuts that you can make a draw card not draw cards you have in your deck/discard. That just sounds very wrong.

Edit, from OoM wiki page:
When you need to shuffle your discard pile to access more cards from your deck, you only get to shuffle one time. This is true even if there are still cards in your discard pile due to Order of Masons. So if playing a Sentinel makes you shuffle a discard pile with 5 cards, and you spend a Favor to leave 2 of them in your discard pile, the Sentinel looks at the 3 cards in your deck, and you won't shuffle to include the 2 cards in your discard pile.

But, I guess that’s what it do—if for some reason you wanted a specifically untouched discard pile

Huh, I see what you and Jeebus are saying now. So, I was wrong and you don't shuffle again to pick up the cards you left out of the shuffle. I agree that it does sound wrong--I suppose it is in the "spirit" of Order of Masons to make you not draw specific cards through your next shuffle, but it is definitely weird that it can make you draw 0 cards when you leave out all cards from a shuffle.

By the way, just tested on Dominion Online and it does work as you all are saying--all the cards get set aside, I don't draw any cards, and I get the +1 action and +2 favors. I had one card left in my deck (the copper that I do draw) when I played Emissary.

Turn 21 - Wizard_Amul
W plays an Emissary.
W spends 3 Favors.
W puts a Copper, a Silver, a Port, a Bounty Hunter, and an Emissary into their discard pile.
W shuffles their deck.
W draws a Copper.
W gets +1 Action.
W gets +2 Favors. (Emissary)

38

Rules Questions / Re: Emissary and Order of Masons

« on: June 04, 2022, 11:07:01 am »

Good question--I think you do still get the +1 Action and +2 Favors because if you do what the wiki says, you end up having to actually shuffle 1+ cards again.

Simple scenario that explains:
1. I have 1 card in my deck, 2 cards in my discard pile, and 1 favor.
2. I play Emissary, drawing the 1 card and attempt to shuffle 2 cards.
3. I use Order of Masons to set the 2 cards in the discard pile. I now have 0 favors.
4. I now have to actually shuffle the 2 cards because I still need to draw 2 cards that I still haven't drawn.

I would say the wiki is misleading in that I don't see how you can use Order of Masons to make Emissary draw 0 cards--maybe I'm missing some edge case that I'm not thinking of.

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prosperity 2E Preview 1

« on: May 30, 2022, 11:32:41 am »

War Chest:
Why is there no “0” or “?” value in the top right/left corner but a “blank”?

On Reddit, Donald X confirmed that it is a change that may be implemented for future printings: https://www.reddit.com/r/dominion/comments/v0uduh/comment/iaiqh7r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

40

Rules Questions / Re: Island Folk 3rd turn

« on: May 21, 2022, 10:58:22 am »

I'm pretty sure you're right--as long as you buy Island Folk when the previous turn wasn't yours, you should be able to take as many turns as you've legally set up already, whether it be from Mission, Outpost, Voyage, Seize the Day, etc (tell me if I'm missing something, but I think these should all work).

If technical accuracy was the goal, I think the rulebook should say something like "This can never be purchased on your 2nd turn to take a 3rd turn in a row" or "This can never let you take a 3rd turn in a row if you buy it when the previous turn was yours."

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is Rebuild ever fun?

« on: April 12, 2022, 11:15:01 am »

It's not substantially less fun than a big money game, but it makes the game way faster, which means you get a chance to roll a more interesting kingdom faster. So, overall, Rebuild increases the amount of fun you have.

Wait until you hear about how fast a turn 1 resign speeds up the game.

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies First Impressions

« on: April 04, 2022, 11:12:21 am »

Yep, Swap and Overlord are super similar in letting you play any $5, I would just summarize the differences as:

- Overlord costs 8 debt, Swap has a cost of and whatever card you are replacing each time you play it
- Swap will (hopefully) permanently improve your deck for the next shuffle, Overlord does not improve your deck when played. So in this sense Swap's effect is clearly more powerful. But Overlord doesn't require being lined up with something to swap out. That's the simple tradeoff.

I disagree that Swap's effect is clearly more powerful in that case--true your deck is better with the card that was swapped into it, but now Swap is just a cantrip if you don't have anything else you want to swap out. On the other hand, Overlord on the next shuffle can be the card that you swapped in last turn or any other card--Overlord is more flexible. If you have more actions you want to swap out in the future, Swap can debatably be said to have the more powerful effect on a given turn--Overlord's flexibility and not having to line it up with anything are still advantages, though.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Island Folk

« on: March 30, 2022, 05:05:38 pm »

Before reading your thoughts, I would have said Ratcatcher and Engineer...basically for the same reasons you said. I don't think I agree with what you seem to be hinting at, that opening Underling over Ratcatcher will get you extra turns first; being able to trash with Ratcatcher and pick up most of the pieces with Engineer (villages and Underlings) may very well let you get extra turns more reliably and earlier.

Presumably you do want to trash at some point here, and I would think Ratcatcher + Engineer and then getting Underlings later is better than Underling + Engineer and then getting Ratcatchers later. With Engineers, villages, and Bridge Trolls, I think you might not even want the Underlings until a bit later--Engineers and Bridge Trolls with villages and trashing can possibly get you more gains than not having some of those and getting an extra turn with many Underlings.

Not having had this type of board before, I could definitely be wrong on when to start getting Underlings, though. The alternative of not trashing and just going for extra turns is an interesting comparison--in the case of 1 ratcatcher vs 1 underling, you get to trash at most 5 cards every 5 shuffles vs getting 1 extra turn every 5 shuffles; intuitively, I think trashing seems better because the shuffles get shorter over time. Maybe there's some optimal combination of ratcatchers and underlings to go for, but I still like trashing. What happened in your game?

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies First Impressions

« on: March 26, 2022, 11:23:19 pm »

The general point holds true in certain cases, though...if you can play your deck every turn, Throne Room plays a card twice every shuffle whereas Royal Galley can only play a card once every shuffle. Like you said, though, Royal Galley starts to look a lot better if you're not drawing your deck every turn. Royal Galley also has other advantages--the +1 card now, the reliability boost at the start of next turn, and two fewer cards in your deck next turn (Royal Galley and the set aside card).

Most of the time, it's better to think of it as a Caravan whose next-turn effect is a Lost City instead of a Lab. It's not at all similar to Throne Room.

Hmm, I somewhat agree with that. It is pretty different from Throne Room, and maybe Caravan is generally a better comparison, at least when you get the effect off as intended--one notable difference where I think Throne Room is a closer comparison is that both Royal Galley and Throne Room require you to have another action in your hand to get the effect, whereas Caravan doesn't. That's less of an issue with Royal Galley because of the +1 card, but it's still an issue.

45

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Allies First Impressions

« on: March 26, 2022, 09:24:40 pm »

You mean it can make Royal Galley itself miss a shuffle? That’s true. But the set-aside card gets played on both turns, so I don’t think it can meaningfully “miss a shuffle”.

If you take another turn before reshuffling, the set-aside card gets played twice per shuffle. If you don't, it gets played once per shuffle.

The general point holds true in certain cases, though...if you can play your deck every turn, Throne Room plays a card twice every shuffle whereas Royal Galley can only play a card once every shuffle. Like you said, though, Royal Galley starts to look a lot better if you're not drawing your deck every turn. Royal Galley also has other advantages--the +1 card now, the reliability boost at the start of next turn, and two fewer cards in your deck next turn (Royal Galley and the set aside card).

46

Rules Questions / Re: Coffers Rules Change

« on: March 18, 2022, 06:19:26 pm »

That said, is there any consideration on making Treasures playable during the entirety of the Buy phase (kinda contradicting what I just said above)? This mattered pretty much never pre-Renaissance, but nowadays it feels kinda ugly.

The rule was introduced with Prosperity. Removing it would break Grand Market, and significantly alter Mint and Mandarin, maybe more.

Wait, this wasn't the rule before prosperity? Not that it would matter with just the base game treasures, but I thought that it was always the rule.

Nope. It didn't matter with any of the sets before Prosperity, and that's where it was introduced.

Wrong. In Alchemy.

During the Buy phase, all Treasures are played before a player buys any cards, even if he has +Buys. A player may not play Treasures after Buying a card. This is important for Philosopher's Stone.

Ah, okay. I checked, but too quickly then.
But the point is, it was not always the rule, and it was introduced when it mattered (and of course it matters a lot more for the cards in Prosperity than for Philosopher's Stone).

It certainly matters for Philosopher's Stone--whether or not you can buy cards before playing all your treasures directly changes how many coins you get for playing Philosopher's Stone. I get what you mean, though...it doesn't practically matter since almost nobody cares about Philosopher's Stone.

47

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss - Forts

« on: March 18, 2022, 03:39:55 pm »

I played a game with Forts + Way of the Camel, and my opponent just went for it.  I built some weak engine and lost.  ...I feel like this shouldn't have been so hard to beat, but here we are.

Forts never got rotated because as the money player obviously it wasn't in his interest to ever give me access.

That actually seems like a pretty good card in a money deck--it's a gold gainer that you can topdeck every turn in the early game (the golds do come slowly but still fine especially because of next point) or use as a terminal silver early on to hit a price point, and then you topdeck it as a terminal silver later on. If there's a better terminal that costs 4-5, you might go for that in addition to tent (or instead of tent), but if there isn't one, tent/camel seems reasonably good/fast there. There are probably faster engines but it seems like a reasonable option compared to some slower engines.

48

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss - Sycophant

« on: March 18, 2022, 02:05:18 am »

It was only a friendly game, but I did have it work out decently for me in one game so far…I was going for League of Bankers, and I think Exorcist was the only trashing in the kingdom. Arena was also there, so I had a small benefit for not playing or trashing Sycophant. I picked it up when I hit 2 a couple times early on, and getting 4 favors and a wisp out of it was good. There was also Underling, so it wasn’t the only source of favors. Going forward, anytime I really want several favors (League of Bankers, Island Folk, etc.) and there is any easy way to trash them, I think I will consider Sycophant. I think it’s risky to go for if you can’t trash it—often not being able to play it for a useful effect hurts it’s usefulness quite a bit. Compare it to Lackeys, which has a better on-play effect.

49

Feedback / Re: undo abuse

« on: March 17, 2022, 02:58:40 am »

Unfortunately I don’t think you can really do something about this that would make sense—sometimes you take a long series of moves with no new information, and I think you should be able to undo many steps. It’s up to you to you to deny or accept any undo. Sometimes people may try to do a long undo to attempt to cheat, but I wonder how common that is; sometimes, maybe more likely with a new interface, you are trying to do something else in the menu and accidentally ask for a long undo, so it could be accidental.

50

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions

« on: March 15, 2022, 12:06:25 am »

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit Thing¨™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.

It's a somewhat minor plus, but his point is just that since Voyage is a limited turn, you'll end the Voyage turn with having cards in your discard pile, even if you normally would otherwise draw your deck.

E.g., say you can draw your deck and play a Voyage at the end--on the Voyage turn, you play any 3 cards, and then you draw a new hand after discarding those cards into your discard pile. Your next turn will now have you start with cards in your discard pile, when you normally wouldn't have a discard pile after drawing your whole deck each turn.