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Topics - WanderingWinder

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76
Game Reports / Hit the road, jack
« on: May 23, 2012, 09:06:00 pm »
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120520-201759-097e0cc1.html

This is a game I played a few days ago, and probably not optimally. There is a LOT going on on this board, but the key combo is... Highway +workshop, I'm pretty sure. Now, Forge and tactician may also be good at some point, but uh, feels like if you don't also do the workshop-highway thing, it will be slow. Probably you can execute my strategy better too, with stables at opportune moments, but... it was a lot of fun to play. 4 colonies on turn 14, and 4 provinces (and one colony) on turn 17... and the only +buy is tactician.

77
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/20/game-20120520-055540-e3de2d85.html

Check out those spy plays...
Also, even with this, it's not that big a deal, I guess. And EXTREMELY obvious.

78
Dominion Isotropic / Resignation bug
« on: May 20, 2012, 01:11:25 pm »
So, I'm playing a game with Stef, and after he sat for about 15 seconds, (he'd sat maybe a minute or two at some other points earlier), it gave me the option to resign him.
Naturally I didn't take it, but...

79
Dominion Articles / The Fourth Ending Condition
« on: May 20, 2012, 11:12:42 am »
The Fourth Ending Condition

(Note: This, like so many others, is an article aimed at 2-player dominion)


Now, as we all know, there are three conditions that end the game: An empty province pile at the end of a turn, an empty colony pile at the end of a turn, or any other three empty piles at the end of a turn. But in many games of dominion, there's a fourth victory condition lurking: Securing half of the available victory points.

In your most basic game, with only prrovinces, duchies, and estates, (I would say that Oxford comma is for you, jonts, but I just love them too darn much to not claim a large hunk of it for me, too), there are 86 victory points in play, so securing 43 ensures at least a tie as first player, and a win as second. Throw a way to get the curses slung around, and you're down to 38 points. Instead, add in a two point VP card, and you get to 51 points. The key thing is to remember the 43, then add half of the total extra points the card benefit. So, say there's harem, nobles, and great halls (you're playing intrigue). That's 8 extra points from half the harems, 8 extra points from half the nobles, and 4 extra from half the great halls, for a total of 20 extra, and 63 total to clinch half the VP. Colonies aren't too different - just 40 extra points for half, and you get to 83.

Now these calculations can also change within the game. What do I mean? The biggest way is trashing. Every victory point trashed is half a victory point off the number you need to clinch. So if we trash 5 of the original 6 estates, that's 2.5 off of our 43, it now takes 41 VP to clinch the game, and that clinches a majority outright.

There are also a number of ways where the limits can change more subtly. The biggest is VP chips. Technically, goons game usually have an upper limit (barring ambassador), but monument and bishop games never do - you can gain infinite amounts of VP with them, so you can never clinch. But variable VP cards can also do this. Technically, they also have upper bounds, but I've yet to see a gardens game where that's been close to being reached, and with vineyards you only see it when there are very few actions and vineyards are therefore terrible. Fairgrounds are sort of a hybrid here, as they tend to fluctuate 2-4-6 and not go any further (clinch-wise you can usually count them as 6). Dukes are the most interesting. Every duchy your opponent buys clips a point off of your maximum VP for every duke you might buy (and the same thing is true for the duchies you buy and your opponent's max score).
Silk roads are extraordinarily complicated here, particularly with other alternate green cards. In any game where they're available, there are at least 38 green cards in the game. Every one you have, your opponent obviously can't have, so that's an adjustment. And every extra green card, sans black market, which is available adds 8 more to the possibilities. Technically there's some upper bound of points here, but it is very rarely relevant, unless you've been dancing around for green for a long time, in which case SR are probably clearly your go-to alternate green by now anyway.
Finally, there are ways of your opponent to smash your existing VPs. Sboteur is actually the big one here, though it's not so reliable without some big-time engine. There are some other things too, though - masquerade, ambassador w/possession, swindler on the cheaper things, or even perhaps provinces if you also have a billion highway/bridge in play.

One more thing to note here is that while half the VP is a hard lock, there's often just-as-good locks available based on the points that your opponent can get to. What do I mean? Two piles are gone. Well, without +buys, your opponent can't get the last duchy AND the last province now, so even if you don't have 50% of the points, if you're close, you might be fine. Even with 1 set of +buy, if there's no way to play multiples, they can't get the last harem and the last duchy and the last province. Most often, it's that they can't get the last province and then come back and grab the last colony. Little adjustments like this are possible.



Ok, you say, but what does all this mean strategically? I'm glad I asked on your behalf. The first and simplest thing is to be cognizant of the situation - if you can get a VP lock, do it, just like you'd take a clinching 3-pile.


However, there are bigger implications here, largely related to that age-old (how old IS dominion, anyway - I guess age-old is about 5-6 years in this case?) struggle between engines and... non-engines. I guess money-plus decks?

The first thing is that, if you're playing an engine, you need to make sure that you can get enough VP before it's clinched away. Conversely, if you're playing money against an engine, you need to play it differently than you would against another money deck. Against other money decks, you typically race to 4ish provinces and then start really diving after duchies, as quick as you can, green green green! Against an engine, you really need to be aiming to get to the 50% VP mark quickly. Depending on the engine you're facing, that either means holding off quite a while so that when you make your push, you get all the way there (this is true if once your opponent's engine is assembled, it will be able to buy like EVERYTHING - like a big bridge combo), or more generally their engine is just pretty strong, and you want to aim for something a little short of 50%, because it'll be pretty slow for them to pick up those estates, too, and you can sputter along to 50%. Of course, you can also play for ending the game in some other manner, such as by getting ALL the provinces, and if that's faster, go for it. Actually, if it's AS fast, go for it, because every extra province you pick up makes it a little harder for them, they have to get a higher number of green cards now, with higher total cost...


Moreover, the presence of alternate VP cards (or attacks to destroy opponent's VP, etc.) shifts this equilibrium. It's going to take a bit longer to get to that 50% mark, so the engine has a little longer to get going. In general, there's a couple different things here actually. There are some engines that are good because you can set them up pretty quickly, and then they do nice things for you. Apothecary-based stuff is a great example of this. Also lots of more traditional engines that just let you draw a lot and then splash in for a province. However, probably more engines nowadays are built for the long-haul. You spend a good while setting them up, and when you do, you draw most all of your deck, accumulating a good amount of buying power and extra buys along the way. These, you need to wait longer to make stronger, you can. And generally, when they green, they get some massive turns. So, for engines that are either very resilient to greening or can have a massive strike where all their greening happens at once, basically instantly, these are helped tremendously by alternate VP, because it just gets them longer to set up, and once they're up, they have great control of when to end the game, and lots of VP to gain to get the lead before that end of game happens.

The presence of VP chip cards, because of their unlimited potential, greatly enhances this. It's no mistake that the biggest comebacks I see are with these cards. If you can play a monument 15 times a turn consistently, well, your big lead doesn't look so impressive. If I've got 6 goons in play, man, I can score at least 42+ points right there - and usually more. If I can build my deck to draw everything, bishop a few golds, buy a few golds, I'm going to be pumping back pretty quickly. Meanwhile, you have to really buy out all those provinces to end the game, and if you didn't prepare it right... you'll be drowning in a sea of green. So against big VP chip engines, you need to really look to ending the game, meaning see that third pile, or all those provinces, and head for them, instead of going for smaller green as early as you normally would. Because normally, every VP card you get is not only helping you, but denying your opponent. With the chips, that's not so much true. Now the problem with playing money decks for all the provinces (etc.) like this is, well that means your lead right now isn't as big. Which means they have less work to do to come back. But the point is that they have less time - if they can overcome anyway, well, you should have played the engine!

80
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/16/game-20120516-070055-1a41f8cc.html

Just played this, and ambassador tricked TWO colonies to him on the last turn to win.
Game itself pretty boring - I get ahead in an ambassador war, and that's it.

81
Help! / Torturer Chains
« on: May 05, 2012, 03:37:55 pm »
This is, I know, a weakness of my game. How do you fight these things? More important, what's the best way to set them up? It seems to me like it's often a bit random, who can get them off first, and I know there's a lot of skill here, just... what is it?

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120503-202350-47b03221.html is an example game I played recently against a strong player, which left me scratching my head. What did I do wrong?

82
Dominion General Discussion / Multiplayer Dronings
« on: May 03, 2012, 12:25:07 am »
So, I'd actually planned on writing a different article tonight, but I guess given the events of the day, this will do instead.
In a two player game, you have a number of things that you need to worry about. But basically, you are always trying to control things, so that at the time the game ends, you are in the lead. You need to control both your own scoring mechanisms as well as the tempo of the game in order to do this. Now, you have a certain amount of control over the tempo, but so does your opponent.
The more players you add, the less control you exert over the tempo. Actually, you get less control over the whole game. There are more chances for your opponents to attack and disrupt you. There are more people competing with you for the limited supplies of the kingdom piles. And three pile endings can happen much faster.
All of this means you have less control. And that can really suck. I really hate that feeling. But you know, there's nothing malicious about it. It's just a much tougher game to win, for anyone.
So, people complain about kingmaking. But this isn't really a big deal. They'll bring up situations, like not ending the game while behind, which lets the guy in 2nd come back and win. Or ending the game while in 2nd, which stops the guy in 3rd who was building an engine from making his huge comeback. Or similar things. But, the thing is, these are strategic moves. Sure, they're not the strategic moves that allows the player making them to win the game, and at the same time, they do have big impacts on who does win. So what gives?
Well, the thing is, there's still strategy here. The guy in second is playing to protect his 2nd place, figuring the chances here are better than if he goes for the win. The guy in 3rd isn't ending it because he has to hope that the game will go on longer, if he's going to have a chance. So these are rational, self-interested actions of people simply trying to get the most out of the game.
And this is NOT kingmaking. Or at least, not the kind that is a huge problem in lots of games. Now, yes, it can still be very frustrating, that the reason I didn't win is because of something a third person, other than myself and not the person who did win, did. But, all of the other players' actions are just as important to the result. Not to mention the shuffle luck aspect. So, yeah, it can be extremely frustrating, and I don't think I'm ever going to like it nearly as much as I do 2-player, largely for this reason. But it's not the kind of kingmaking where player C says, hmm, I'd rather have player B win than player A. Not that this CAN'T happen, because it can, but player C almost always has to do this to his own detriment. And if people aren't playing out of their own self-interest, you're going to have problems anyway.
But what about those cases where people commit hari-kiri, ending the game with themselves in last, or something similar. Yes, this can happen. In fact, it can indeed even come up in a case where it's not a worse strategic move than some other action, simply because you're locked in last place. Yep, it can happen, though it's extremely rare to not have this somehow impact the hari-kiri person's winning chances negatively. But ok, even here, the point is you have to plan for the possibility. As a player in a multiplayer game, you need to base your strategy not only one what's coldly best in a vacuum, but what your opponents do. When do you green? It really really really depends on your opponents' decks. You need to build up longer the more they're languishing, and go for green quicker to compensate for them as well. And you want to have enough of a lead so that whenever one of them ends the game, you can have the lead then, and enough of a long game so that if they hit bad streaks, you're ok there, too.
Now, sometimes, you've got to weigh one option against another. But here, you've just got to take a stand, make a choice, pick a play based on what you think they're going to do. There's some game theory involved. In fact, you can really make the argument that there's MORE strategy involved here, because it's not just a cold calculation of the numbers, you actually have to read what decisions they're going to make. And make the best choice you can based on the information presented.

Now, can people collude? Of course they can collude. Can they collude without hurting their own chances of winning? Not really. So basically, just like in the two-player game, you need to throw games in order to collude. And you actually have to do this in a pretty skillful way in order to really throw it towards one of the players or the other (note to self: team dominion where you take the higher score of one of the players on your team, but it looks individual - very interesting and fun looking). And so, if you're doing this anyway, it might be a bit easier in multiplayer, it might have a little more direct impact within a single game as opposed to in a metagame standings sense, but it's not really qualitatively all that different from fixing results in two player games.
I'll give a couple caveats. Masquerade is the big thing here. You can pass cards that make super huge changes in the game, which can really be cripplingly warping if you're not playing self-interested. Same goes with decisions on contraband and envoy. But you know, these are going to be pretty obvious. Possession might have some issues too, but I think largely with this card, as well as things like smugglers and tribute, it's just that there's a qualitative difference based on seating order, which we don't like because it seems random, rather than actually like a collusive effect going on.
If you want to talk about competitive dominion, there are a few big things then. You want to make sure that people are self-interested and actually trying to win. You want to have very large numbers of games, because the inherent luck is going to not make reliably repeatable results otherwise (a problem that's exacerbated in multiplayer). You want to think long and hard about what bonuses, if any, you give to 2nd place vs 3rd place, or incentives to try to score as many points as possible, which I actually think might be a good thing in the tournament setting if you only do it for losses, and have wins be way more important than that. There are a number of ways you can do something like this to help control endgame behaviour a bit, but the important point is that your tournament rules WILL affect endgame behaviour. You probably also want to make sure everyone is pretty competitively even, and possibly more importantly, good. Because bad play does throw things off a little, not that there isn't strategy to be had there, too.
Furthermore, you definitely want to have separate events for 2-player, 3-player, 4-player. I do think 2 player is the most interesting here, because there's the most individual control, but the other things are viable too, as long as you get people playing to win. You probably also want to take reasonable measures, like recording the actions taken somehow, so that you don't get people like passing colonies on masq plays (though actually, you DO want to do that sometimes, though very very rarely).
Is it easier to collude in 3 player? Yeah probably. But I would not say it's qualitatively different, and I do think the biggest issues are that a) people don't like that the person who does worst has such a big impact on the game, when they aren't that person, and b) people don't understand that you need to take all the possible actions of your opponents, and their decks' capabilities, into account when you're pursuing a multiplayer game, much more complicatedly than in 2p. And without actually playing multiplayer, I don't think it's very easy to grasp this stuff. Not that it isn't still extremely frustrating at times. But then, I think we'll see this more later on in IsoDom Challenge.

83
Rules Questions / Fool's Gold/Possession interaction
« on: May 01, 2012, 10:33:48 am »
So, I was thinking this morning, you have to play your fool's golds manually. Which implies to me, even though it probably shouldn't, that there's some reason you might not want to play them all. Then a reason hit me. You're possessing player Y. He has 5 FG in hand. You play three, and then buy a province. Y gains a province, so you gain the province, so then his FG trigger, so then you can also choose to 'trash' them and gain two gold? Right? This works, right?
This would be awesome if it ever happened, BTW.

84
Game Reports / The Governor Collection
« on: April 30, 2012, 10:11:12 am »
Governor is a weird card, a difficult card, a bit of a tricky card which is not easy to understand how to play optimally. I'd like this thread to be an example of games which feature governor as the star card, particularly if there's some nuance of strategy you want to evince.

I'm going to start off by posting this game: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120427-195902-f537fa3c.html.
Now, I think this game is good and instructive for a few reasons. First, be sparing with your +cards. Second, you have to check out the board for options and not play blindly. Here moneylender helps connect things, warehouse is great as a sifter. But I think most importantly you need to see silk road. You're probably going to have an opponent with lots of silvers, so if you go for a final mega-turn trashing lots of golds into provinces... you have to watch out for your opponent defensively trashing, basically. So I was even more keen to get moneylender, because I can turn it into a duchy defensively. And the silvers into silk roads. I actually gain 10 points on the last turn of the game, which was my opponent's turn! Finally, be willing to turn those golds into provinces even at a pretty early stage.

85
Game Reports / The WW Makes an Engine Collection
« on: April 30, 2012, 10:04:30 am »
Every so often, I get a game I'm super proud of for an engine I made, and I save the game, and... then don't do anything with it. So I'm going to try to post them here in this thread, all in this thread so that I don't clog the forums up with so much of me, at least on the same subject. Which is not to say I won't post other games, but they'll be for specific, other things than 'I love the engine I built.' Anyways, onwards!

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120423-202756-52266a45.html
This is a game I played last week against chwhite, who I have a lot of respect for, largely as a better engine-builder than me. He goes fairly well for a BM/monument deck, with some nice other goodies (warehouse, a couple GMs and cartographers, a bridge), building quite a nice deck, with quite a decent lead. And not stalling out. 6 provinces, 6 VP chips, 4 estates in 19 turns is nothing to sneeze at, especially with no strong draw sitting around.
I built an engine here. The idea is to use warehouses and farming villages and watchtowers to play lots of bridges, with GM playing a major role, monument letting me catch up over the long haul - I can play it more often than him, with better sifting and more of them - and cartographer helping out. It sputters a bit out of the gate, gets a little something going on turn 13, hits a nice clump on 15, and then it finally erupts starting turn 17, giving me a few mammoth hands of massiveness. I'm able to get 35 points on the last turn, and I pile-drive the duchies to overcome his 4 province lead.


___________________________________________________________________

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/28/game-20120428-112219-c96e0538.html for a colour log
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120428-112219-c96e0538.html for the CR log. I'm surprised at how I miss things looking pretty.

So in this game, we see steward trashing into a big TR-powered engine. Market, steward, and pawn are my big targets, with haggler playing a nice role to help me get set up with all the components I want. This is not really a great conventional engine board, though, with steward being the best draw, and no village other than the TR, so it goes down to the wire, and I'm able to eek out a one-point win over the more money-based strategy.

86
Game Reports / Noble Brigand Brigade
« on: April 17, 2012, 10:40:17 am »
I feel sort remiss about showing you guys some of my secret tech. But eh, I've generally always tried to do that, it was a decision I made long ago, and I guess I'm going to stick with it.
This is a game I played yesterday against a fellow 40+er where I use a bunch of seemingly junky cards to beat what's considered a pretty solid strategy. I have to say, I'm inspired by marin a good bit here - he always seems to find some crazy kind of engine to keep you down, control the game, and crush you from a position you thought to be massively advantageous to you. So I've been looking for ways to do the same, and the opportunity seemed to present itself here, and I jumped at it.

I issue Noble Brigand attacks 28 times in the 28 turns of the game.

Okay, just wanted to give that its own line. My opponent goes for a pretty solid-lookin' basically BM/Smithy strategy. And can you blame him really? (I guess you can argue that courtyard is better). I go for a cards/action engine with... Noble Brigand as the centre piece. Now, I'm pretty sure I play it pretty badly at first actually. My opening looks to be fairly bad. But by turn 7 or so, I'm doing basically what I want to be. Which is using lots of crossroads and draw cards and worker's villages, obtained largely with my workshop, and buying a couple more components but mostly making sure I buy noble brigands. I steal like all his money. Seriously, by the end of the game, he has A - that's one - silver, no gold, and 14 copper. I don't actually catch him up on points until my turn 26, but by then, the game's basically been over for a pretty long while. Actually, he does pretty well here to buckle down into the duchies hard, I think.
Anyway, it was an interesting game, and loads of fun, and I'd like to hear what you guys think.

87
Help! / WW needs help - how does Marin do it?
« on: April 14, 2012, 07:23:47 pm »
Instead of logs, I give videos:

That's over an hour of content. You don't have to watch it all at once.

Also, this guy frustrates the bleep out of me (yes, I self-censor (well, actually I just don't curse, but I do get frustrated)) mostly because I lose to him and am most always left with this... 'but how?' feeling... so Marin, don't take it so much personally, but for whatever reason, you just kill me all the time.

88
Game Reports / The (Disappearing Village) (Draw up to X) engine
« on: April 13, 2012, 09:13:45 am »
There's an engine I absolutely love to run, based around a non-drawing village and a cards that lets you draw until you have X cards in your hand. My favourite form is Fishing Village/Watchtower, but on the village side you can also have hamlets and festivals, and on the draw side, you can have libraries, to some extent Jacks, and menageries. Generally, you want some woodcutter variant to make this a real powerhouse; festival and hamlet sort of already give you this, but a lot of times having woodcutter or nomad camp or herbalist or bridge or especially horse traders is just super juicy. Some kind of workshop or ironworks can also be thrown in for this role to a certain extent.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120412-125409-129a2b2b.html
This is an example game I played a few days ago against a very strong opponent. It's pretty much the best version of the engine, in my view, as the watchtower and horse traders help make it extremely resilient to attack, and you can do pretty nasty things with it. Also, because FV and Watchtower are so cheap, the woodcutter lets you really stock up on lots of components, quickly.

89
Simulation / Simulation Tournament: Quints
« on: April 11, 2012, 10:29:32 pm »
This recent topic sparked a lot of debate, and so I figured, hey, why not let the simulators figure it out? Also, I've been meaning to run a simulation tournament anyway. So, here's the challenge: make a bot using whatever the heck you want*, starting in an average case scenario (you can make it do different things based on how you start, but no special start state!), to beat all the others. Now, a few caveats. You only get to reference up to 5 different kingdom cards (plus whatever basics, colony, platinum, and potion), so that in any given matchup, a 10 card set can actually be made out of the clash from any two of these bots. Furthermore, I'm going to go ahead and ban vault, Bishop, torturer, young witch, and possession. Vault, Bishop, and torturer because it's really annoying for the opponent not to be able to make the 'correct' decision in response, as you can't do in the simulator, young witch because the bane is such a big deal and the opponent can't know what it is, and possession because, well, how do you know what you're doing with their deck if you have no idea what their deck is? I don't actually think any of these cards would be used in a winning submission, but I do regret having to prohibit them. If you want to lobby me with some great reason to allow them, here in the thread or via PM, I'm listening. Also if there's some other card that I've missed that I really oughta ban.

Specifics: Each person can submit up to three, that's 3, yes 3 different bots. You can't have any more than one card of your five overlapping between two sets; i.e. I can have herbalist in set A, secret chamber in set B, and both in set C, but I can't have secret chamber AND herbalist in two of my three sets. Submissions should be sent to me via PM no later than midnight GMT on the night of April 21st-22nd, 2012. I'll try to post the results sometime later that week. If I get too many entries, I may do some quick pruning of what seem to be weak bots before pitting them against each other in the finals. Hopefully it won't come to that, but I will at least look at and test every bot that comes in. The finals will be round-robin, starting with 10,000 game trial runs. Anything within 5% will get re-run at 100,000, and if it's within 1%, I'll rerun it to probably 300,000. Things that are exceptionally close (i.e. like a tenth of a percent after 300,000 runs) will just get called ties. All bots should be in Geronimoo's simulator.


I think that's everything, though I may update this post later with more info.

90
Dominion Articles / Promo: Stash
« on: April 06, 2012, 11:01:24 am »
Stash is a card that at first glance seems ever-so boring. Ok, at first glance it seems awesome, because it has a different back than every other card. But the functionality, at first, makes you think ‘Really? Really? Is this really substantially better than silver? Does this really need to cost $5?’ And it’s true, it’s a pretty lackluster card. But it does really need to cost $5, and it does have some substantial improvements.


Ok, let’s get all of the downsides out of the way first. It costs $5. This is the big one. Usually, you have something better to do on $5. Also, your opponent knows when you have it and where it is in your deck, just as much as you do. Finally, if you get possessed, it has some drawbacks, over and above just ‘it’s bad to let my opponent use good cards’. Because if your opponent possesses you when you’re reshuffling, including if you reshuffle at the end of your turn, in your cleanup phase, drawing your new hand, they get to place all your stashes. Which means they can place them WORSE than randomly throughout your deck. But ok, these (other than the cost) aren’t really that bad.

Now let’s look at the plus points. The biggest positive you’ve got is that you can stack all the stashes together. Normally, your good cards get spread out throughout your deck, and you really need to chain a few together in order to get something really nice done on your turn. This is why trashing is so good. This is why card draw is so good. They both give you good chances to have multiple good things in a turn. Stash gives you the same thing, except with stash, the upside of the ‘good things’ is a bunch of silvers. And a bunch of silvers can still be good, it’s just usually not as powerful as the benefits you get in other cases. You can also guarantee you have the stashes early in your reshuffle rather than late, which makes a big difference on, say, the last reshuffle, where getting a province now as opposed to in 4 turns can make an awfully big difference. But it’s important to note that sticking all the stashes back-to-back on top is not always optimal. There are a few reasons for this. First of all, you’re very often reshuffling when you’re drawing your new hand. If you’ve drawn 3 cards already, and you have 4 stashes, you may well want to put two other random cards on top to draw this hand, so that you get 4 all together next hand for a province. There are also some situations where you actually want your stashes spread out – menagerie and wishing well come to mind. Furthermore, if you’re coming to the endgame and you’re going to need some duchies before getting the penultimate or ultimate province, you may want to stack the stashes back-to-back say 5 or 10 cards down the line.

Stash’s ability can also be used in a few more creative ways than the big stack. The most normal of these is as a defense to an attack. Your opponent’s pirate ships and thieves bothering you? Stash can very often be placed so as to avoid them. The same is true of most cares-about-top-of-deck cards, from swindler to saboteur to even tribute sometimes. Very often, you want to hide the stashes from these kinds of cards, and you can do that pretty well. But there are lots of other situations where you can stick the stash in the way of these attacks, so that they take the hit instead of your more valuable cards. You need to watch the situation and your deck to know which is which, and you need to be good at guessing when your opponent will do these things at the time of your reshuffle in order to get maximum defensive benefit. Sometimes this is really easy (usually when they have uber-reliable engines that let them do it every single turn), but others, it’s not. In the endgame, stash can often play a critical role. Usually this happens when you already have a stash or two or especially three, you hit 5 or 6 or 7 money near the end of a reshuffle, and duchies are either out or a single duchy won’t make much difference on the outcome. Buy an extra stash or two, and you’re angling for that province pretty reliably. It sounds like a fringe case, and it is, because you don’t have stashes that often to start with, but you know, in super-clogged decks, those stashes can make a big difference.

There’s also several interesting combinations out there with stash, very non-standard stuff. There’s Native Village/Stash, which is pretty sensational on a 5/2 and barely above BM/Stash on the 4/3. There’s of course the very powerful Chancellor/Stash, which is just mega-good. There are also combos with almost anything that cycles well. So oracle+Stash is pretty nice, as are warehouse+stash and cellar+stash. Golem+Stash would be nice, but it’s exceptionally slow to set up. Golem+scheme+stash is cute, but usually there’s something better. Embassy, the king of cyclers, works wonders with stash. Only, usually if embassy’s available, there’s something better than stash to buy (embassies or golds or provinces).

Stash is very successful against cursing attacks and other junking attacks like ambassador, because you still get to ensure yourself that clean slate of stashes very nicely bunched together, allowing you a province even with a bunch of garbage in your deck. $8 one hand and $0 the next is better than $4 and $4. Where it suffers is against discard attacks. You’ll never get a province out of only 3 stashes (although to be fair, that’s going to be true of many cards). It’s also not so hot in colony games. 5 stashes never get you a colony, and it’s pretty slow to get you much anything you need actually; still better than silver, but you typically WANT high variance to get to 11 quickly, or at least lots of golds.


Works with:
Chancellor, chancellor, chancellor
Wishing Well
Cyclers
Cursing attacks
Opponents' top-of-deck attacks
BM games where your terminal isn’t a 5-cost and you don’t want many of it

Works poorly with:
Most anything strong, which will be faster
Discard attacks
Colony games

91
Simulation / Simulation Challenge: Make Scout useful
« on: March 01, 2012, 02:19:43 pm »
Increasingly I'm becoming convinced that scout is the worst card in the game. I want you to find me a place where it shines. Because I think there's almost none. Here are the criteria:
It needs to buy scout a non-trivial amount of the time. Maybe not more than one a game, but it should come up in most games.
It needs to be a significant improvement over every bot you can make with the same set of cards not using scout. I'm not looking for .2% here.
The fewer different cards you use, the better. I'll be impressed with a 7 card combo where scout is the centerpiece, but I'll be more impressed by a 2-card combo where scout gives you like 7% or something.
No using scout as just a swindler target! I also don't really want to see you using it as masquerade or ambassador fodder, though I guess I'd be sorta surprised if you could make that effectively work, so go ahead and try if you feel like it.
I'll judge the submission by how much of a winning percentage increase you get, how few cards there are, and how important having specifically scout is.

Good luck - you're gonna need it.

92
Game Reports / A game where thief was important.
« on: February 28, 2012, 05:09:46 pm »

93
Dominion Articles / The When of the Matter
« on: February 15, 2012, 11:29:28 am »
We often make lists of cards that are good and cards that are bad. And we look at openings, which openings are the best. But I think we don't often pay enough attention to WHEN cards are good and bad. Almost every card is better at some point in the game than at some other, form estates, which everybody knows get much much better over time (i.e. you want to trash them at the beginning and buy them at the end) to trading post, which is great on turn 1 and much worse later. And everything in between. There are hints of this analysis out there, but it's not well-developed.

Every card has this strength to some extent. Some aren't very interesting (silver, province, etc.). Some are incredibly important.

An example for you - the paradox of trashers
The most obvious application of this is to trashers. Chapel is by far the best it's going to be before the first reshuffle (I'll call this the zeroth reshuffle). To the extent that it's super-powered then, maybe average on the first reshuffle, and bad afterwards. The same goes for cards like trading post, steward, ambassador, remake, and even forge. The reason for this is that the purpose of these cards is to remove unwanted cards from your deck (well, not entirely, but most often), and in order to do that, you have to be able to get them in your hand together with those unwanted cards, which is by far easier early in the game, when a large percentage of the cards you draw these with will be unwanted.
Now, there's a whole bunch of trashers that I've left out, you might be thinking, and these are your trash-for-benefit cards. Why have I left them out? Because they function quite differently than the others. You use these cards to convert what are generally longer-term investments into immediate gains. What makes them different? The biggest thing is that they only trash one card at a time, which isn't really effective at trashing your deck into a compact engine. The other big thing is that they give you benefits in proportion to the cost of the trashed card. It's for this reason, along with the fact that when you trash those expensive cards, you want to do it at a time when you won't miss their presence as much, i.e. close to the last reshuffle, that trash-for-benefit cards achieve their highest power in the late game.

Time for a big list
Engine components are obviously most powerful later in the game, when you have sufficient density of them to be able to reliably chain them together in an engine.
Terminal draw tends to be stronger late in the game as well; not only are you drawing better things, but (assuming you've planned your deck well), your risk of collisions tend to be decreased then as well. And, these cards get 'caught in the reshuffle' much less later on, too.
Copper is best at the very beginning of the game and at the very end, when your money density is dreadful.

Gardens and Philosopher's stone obviously get stronger with time, as your deck gets bigger.

Venture gets stronger later too, as the average value of your treasure grows.

Silk Road, Fairgrounds, and Vineyards get better over time, as you get more and more likely to bump up to the next of their conditions (silk road especially, since it compounds on itself).

Sifters (e.g. warehouse) are best early, worst in the mid-late game, and decent again when you're greening late. The particular reason for their goodness early on is that not only do they skip your relatively high ratio of estates, they also help you get to your key one or two strong cards.

Duration cards should get a special note here, as they get significantly longer the later you are in the game, because they are much less likely to get 'caught in the reshuffle'


Then there are all kinds of 'interaction' cards.
Attacks
Cursing attacks have essentially two components. Curses are bad because they give you negative VP. This is unchanged throughout the game. Curses are also bad because they clog up your deck. The earlier you get the curse, the thinner your deck probably is, and the more times you're going to see it throughout the rest of the game. Combined with the compounding effect of earlier buys being more important than late ones, and cursing attacks are definitely early game cards.

Handsize-reduction attacks get to their strongest point just before greening happens. This is when you really need all of your cards, and you probably don't have all that much you'd be ok with discarding at that point.

Bureaucrat's attack is strongest when there's significant green in the deck, which is at the end but more especially the beginning of the game. And getting flooded with silver is generally better early than late, so it's pretty much an early game card.

Cutpurse is a huge early-game card; not only are you more likely to hit a copper earlier in the game, it's also much more likely to make a meaningful difference then, too.

Jester consistently gets stronger the later you go in the game, as there's better stuff to steal.

Inspection (i.e. spy-like) attacks remain fairly consistent throughout the game. Early on, you're more likely to be able to pin them to a dead card on top of the deck. But later, it's more painful.

Non-attack interaction
Possession is obviously strongest late in the game, when you can steal better stuff. On the other hand, you want to possess people as often as possible, and if you possess someone in the middle of the game, you do get the compounding effect of 'early buys are better than later'. So possession is actually fairly neutral time-wise - it's much more dependent on other factors, like what's in your opponent's deck, than time.

Masquerade is strong early in the game, because of the trashing effect. In certain circumstances, particularly if you can chain it with handsize-reduction attacks, or if your opponent has trashed even more than you, the passing effect can be like an attack, which gets more powerful with time.

94
Game Reports / Using Stash
« on: February 14, 2012, 05:36:29 pm »
I just played this game. I open with a bit of an advantage on 5/2, and some pretty good early draws. My opponent makes the very reasonable-seeming transition into scheme-saboteur. Sure, sab might not be that great, but playing one every turn is much more appealing. So I counter this buy... using stash! And not just everything-on-top. I line it up so I have 5-card hand, stash, 5-card hand, stash, etc. etc. So every turn, he turns a stash into a silver. And my lead is totally preserved.
Just felt like posting this because people are always looking for ways of using stash creatively, and not just all-my-stashes-lined-up-atop-my-deck.

95
Dominion Isotropic / Interface Bug?
« on: February 13, 2012, 11:57:00 am »
So I just played a game, and after my opponent resigned on turn 7 via a D/C, I'm not offered options to grab the log or return to the lobby. And when I try to exit and log back in, I get kicked back to the game page rather than the lobby.

Anyone else seen this issue?

96
Game Reports / All Cards in Play
« on: February 13, 2012, 10:46:54 am »
I played a very very interesting game with an incredibly strong player last night, where there are lots and lots of interesting decisions to make and, in a very unusual turn of events, every single card was either useful or potentially useful. Ok, here's the game link: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120212-152309-d868a581.html
And here's our post-game discussion

Code: [Select]
17:23 jonts26: gg
17:23 WanderingWinder: gg
17:23 WanderingWinder: lucky I got the 5 coppers that late
17:23 WanderingWinder: the mint was huge for me here
17:23 jonts26: yeah it was
17:23 jonts26: im wondering if i should have got another cache
17:23 WanderingWinder: but I figured it was too late to contest duchies
17:23 jonts26: i was stalling quite a bit late
17:23 WanderingWinder: I actually think you probably got too many as it was perhaps
17:24 WanderingWinder: though oracle is going to help province player a lot
17:24 jonts26: yeah
17:24 WanderingWinder: well,
17:24 jonts26: crossroads was very nice here for me
17:24 WanderingWinder: the thing is,
17:24 WanderingWinder: well 2 things
17:24 WanderingWinder: 1 is that cache/crossroads sorta conflict
17:24 jonts26: early yeah
17:24 jonts26: would you have opened cache/copper?
17:25 WanderingWinder: the other is that if I'd set up well at all for a fight to race duchies, you're pretty slow getting so many caches
17:25 WanderingWinder: um, I'm not sure
17:25 WanderingWinder: when did you pick up the 2nd crossroads, on another $2?
17:25 jonts26: yeah
17:25 WanderingWinder: hmm
17:25 WanderingWinder: tough to say
17:26 jonts26: i feel like cache should be a good enough enabler for dukes
17:26 WanderingWinder: oracle, island, venture, but most importantly mint
17:26 WanderingWinder: helped me get to all the provinces fast enough
17:26 jonts26: thats true too
17:26 WanderingWinder: you know, moneylender/venture/bank is an idea here
17:27 WanderingWinder: takes a while to set up though
17:27 jonts26: well if im going dukes we have a while
17:27 WanderingWinder: very at odds with the duke strategy
17:27 WanderingWinder: yes, exactly
17:27 WanderingWinder: very very interesting little game
17:27 jonts26: i liked it
17:27 jonts26: pretty subtle
17:27 WanderingWinder: heck, thief is good here
17:27 WanderingWinder: you realize that?
17:27 WanderingWinder: thief is good with duke
17:27 jonts26: i felt island was better
17:27 jonts26: but youre probably right
17:28 WanderingWinder: probably at points it is
17:28 WanderingWinder: but very early, if you had a $4
At this point, we were kicked back into the lobby
17:28 WanderingWinder: shoot, I wanted to save that log

Okay, here are my thoughts:
The game itself - the more I think, the more I might like cache/copper over cache/crossroads with 5/2. Well, the sims can tell us easily enough, probably. There are a few key points. 5/2 vs 4/3 is a big deal. Turn 3 he prefers cache to gold - absolutely correct in a duke-seeking deck. I'm not so sure that my early islands are correct here. Turn 6 was a key point for me. The oracle drew copper and estate, which I elected to keep for reshuffle purposes (they were the last two cards in my deck, didn't want to punt the oracle and silver across a reshuffle). So I have $6, and a big decision. Do I contest for dukes? Well, I thought they were probably going to be really strong here, but the problem is that he has 3 caches to his credit, I have none, he's already bought a duchy. I can't really see myself doing anything but lose that split, in all likelihood. Probably I'd need to buy a cache to have the longevity to contest anyway, and... Well, it looked like a loss to me. So I went for gold, figuring (and I think correctly so) that I needed to fight for provinces to win here. I get extremely lucky on turn 8 to hit a 5 copper hand, and I'm able to get a beautiful mint there. This is really the most important and very lucky thing in the game. The mint lets me stock up on treasure longevity that gets me through the game, and the lack of coppers really helps when you're going in for lots of provinces. So I mint and oracle my way up to victory. You'll see that after the game, jonts26 is talking about stalling out pretty hard, wondering whether he should have gotten another cache. Well, the thing is, in a duchy/duke deck, if you're able to be hitting $5 all the time, you're probably waiting to long to start on buying your green. If I'd had a deck at all lined up for contesting duchies, then yeah, the extra cache makes his deck much stronger longer than mine, but the important part of the game might be over by the time that matters. Missing on 3-4 hands isn't that bad luck for a duke deck. Especially as I was attacking him now and then. Actually, I'd question his island buys (they do pretty little to help his deck) if I didn't know that the game looked like it could end any time, and those VPs seemed absolutely necessary to get ASAP.
Okay, thoughts on the board.
Crossroads gives decent support for duchy/duke (but don't prefer it to silver). Oracle is pretty good for it, too. And certainly thief is a fine card, really great in mirrors (you want coppers!). Cache is really, really good, too. But cache and crossroads sorta clash perhaps.
You can go moneylender into venture+bank for provinces here. It's interesting. You can go oracle+Venture BM for provinces. You can go Oracle +cache BM for dukes. You can go thief +Cache BM for dukes. You can do something with island or crossroads, which, in hindsight, seem to probably be mistakes to me. Anyway, there's lots of things to do, it's going to be dependent on what you draw probably as to which direction you go. Also dependent on what your opponent does. But it's a very interesting board with every card in play. I'd love to hear you guys's thoughts. Oh and simulations if you really want, though I think this is not a great spot for the simulators - a very fluid board.

97
Simulation / Simulating Challenge - Chancellor/Stash for Colonies
« on: February 11, 2012, 08:21:48 pm »
So, chancellor/stash is a great combo. But it can't really get you to colonies, because it tops out at getting a $10 hand reliably, which gets you jack squat. A while back, people were looking for strategies which couldn't be improved by putting colonies in buy rules, where in the long run, you're better off going for provinces. And there were actually just about none. But I think this might be one. Now, I'm going to add a meaningfully, because I'm fairly sure that you can put in like colony in there somewhere randomly, like really weird scenarios, and probably increase by maybe a tenth of a percent. So, is there a strategy that beats chancellor/stash, not using other cards, except platinum and colony, going for colonies at some level (even if it's still centred on provinces)?
Here's my bot for chancellor/stash, which will be a baseline (you guys can probably fine-tune it some more even):
Code: [Select]
<player name="Chancellor/StashWW"
 author="WanderingWinder"
 description="Two crappy cards make for a great combo. This is the optimized Chancellor/Stash combo (though hey, it might well be better optimized yet)">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Combo"/>
   <buy name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Stash"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Duchy"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Stash"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Stash"/>
   <buy name="Chancellor">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Chancellor"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Chancellor">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Chancellor"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countAllCardsInDeck"/>
         <extra_operation type="divideBy" attribute="13.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Stash"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>

Let me know if you can come up with something. And if not, what other cards need to be present to make you want to transition into colonies here?

98
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-141751-1fb2e1bb.html

So here, tactician is a big help, and I get a big mint thing going. Check out my last turn where I king a worker's village mainly 'cause I need the buys. $45 (all from basic treasures!) doesn't do much for you otherwise...

99
Dominion Articles / Duke
« on: February 08, 2012, 01:01:53 am »
Duke is one of those cards that seems pretty innocent at first, and you think, most of the time you just ignore it. But then you play a couple interesting games and... you realize it has the potential to be extremely game-warping.

Part of the problem with evaluating duke, as is the case with basically all your alternate VP strategies, is that your clocks get all messed up. Lots of people have a good feel for how long the game is going to be given the kind of deck they're building. Oh, it takes BM/Smithy about 15 turns to complete the game, say. Well, that's based on rushing to half of the provinces, then slowing down a little for duchies toward the end. In a game which your opponent isn't helping you end the game by buying provinces himself, you tend to choke a bit harder on green cards, and it can go significantly longer.
So that's the first lesson of Duke: in non-mirrors, you're in for a very long game. Prepare accordingly.

Okay, next thing to notice is the math on Dukes specifically. How many of them are you going to need? When do you want to buy duchies, and when do you go for dukes? Well, after a little thought, you'll see that the first three should definitely be duchies, and then with 3 duchies and 0 dukes, a duchy is worth as much as a duke, and thereafter, if you want to maximize your immediate points, you should alternate. However, if you're playing to have duchies/dukes as your main victory points, you're eventually going to want at least 6 duchies, right? Because in order to beat all the provinces, you need at least 11 duchy/dukes, and it's optimal if you've got 7 duchies and 4 dukes, but 6 and 5 will get you a tie. As a rule of thumb, you just buy duchy duchy duchy until the duchies are gone (well, you might want to consider going duke before grabbing the last duchy), with the big factor being denial. If your opponent isn't going for dukes as well, getting the duchies denies them a lot more points than getting the dukes does. And even if they are mirroring you, the duchies are what give the dukes their potency anyway, so they're what you need to focus on.

So, you want to get all this stuff - how do you do it? There are actually a lot of ways to do it. Because there's a higher ceiling on points from duchy/duke than from provinces (technically higher even than colonies, but you need like ALL of them), I've actually seen some engine or combo kind of decks that go for duchy and duke. It's pretty interesting, and it's something you need to keep aware of. But if you're going that route, you need to make sure that your deck is capable of getting lots and lots of 5 buys (or gains) without the engine gumming up too much with the green and the big deck. Most engines do gum up like that, and so aren't so good with Duke. Still, there's some nice combo potential in a lot of ways - Tactician can work really well, bridge or highway and some of your gainers is cute, heck bridge by itself is pretty nice. Generally though, your traditional +Cards/+Actions engines don't work so well (though they still can), so you need to be a little more creative to go with an engine or combo and dukes. Plain old money goes very nicely with dukes, on the other hand - even copper.
Because all your key cards cost $5, copper brings your $$ average closer to being there. And because you can actually get above that $1 per card you want, the extra coppers smoothing out your money distribution is important. Moreover, the coppers stop each successive green card from hurting as much. Okay, copper isn't something you should really be buying that often anyway - you should be getting something better most of the time. But if you have an extra buy, and you're playing money for dukes, grab those coppers, even from turn 1. This suggests you actually want those buys. And you do; +Buy cards help BM for duke a lot more than traditional BM precisely because those coppers are very nice to have. And so those cards are nice to have. Of course, cards that can get you lots of silvers or golds are magnificent as well.

Sifters (e.g. warehouse) are also going to be pretty nice for your BM for dukes deck (actually, engines too for that matter), as no matter what, you're going to have pretty high variation in money production from card to card, as such a high number of your cards produce $0. I want to pay special attention to oasis here. It produces a little money for you as well as sifting, and in these kinds of decks will most often be better than silver, as it tends to drive you to that magical $5 that you want. Ultimately you'll probably want a mix between oases and silver, but lots of oases are going to be your friend here.
In addition to sifters, you've got similar cards which help you manipulate your shuffles. I'm looking squarely at mandarin and courtyard here - interestingly enough, one's pretty weak at going provinces (though, I'm convinced, quite underrated), whilst the other is really strong - but even stronger for duke strategies. The idea's simple - you need exactly $5, and you can save the rest, as much as possible, to hit $5 again next turn.
You've got all kinds of cards that are always good with green cards, things like Hoard, crossroads, and scout. Okay, that's only half-joking on scout. No, seriously, it can help. Those things are nice here, too, of course.



Okay, so that's the strategy - what about the tactics?
First, playing against a duchy/duke opponent. You want to know that duchy/duke is a little better than going for provinces on a straight-up big money board. So if you're not going for the dukes yourself, you must have a reason (this is very often the case).
Usually that reason is because you think there's a deck to be built that will get you ALL the provinces before your opponent gets to 11 duchy/dukes. If that's the case, you should NOT, I repeat NOT try to contest duchies until very late (assuming that you've identified that your opponent is going duchy/duke, hold off on duchies yourself until later than you normally would), when you've got the vast majority of your points, as they'll only clog you up, probably much more so than your opponent.
Sometimes, though, you think you can get to a large number of provinces pretty quickly in some kind of deck that can deal with having some duchies. Here, you want to contest early, keying on 2-3 duchies, and then leaving alone. Of course, if you can get 4+ duchies, you can potentially even just head duke yourself. The thing here is, if you can get that 3rd duchy, they need ALL of the other duchies AND ALL the dukes to have more points than you do, if you can get all the provinces. And then they have 1 more point than you. With 2 duchies, they'll need the rest of the duchies plus 6 of the dukes to equal you. The thing is though, if they can sneak a province, you can be in trouble, not to mention that 2-3 extra early green cards will probably seriously hinder your chances of getting all 8 provinces fast enough. There just aren't many I'm-going-provinces-and-have-time-to-contest-duchies decks out there. And if you can't get 2 duchies, it's really not worth it (until the game is on the verge of ending).

If you are playing your duchy/duke strategy against a province-seeking opponent, something very important is to stick to your strategy. You're in it for the long haul. You're in it for a long game. You need the game to go long, so assume it will (and make it happen, if you can). Don't buy your first duchies too early, and find yourself having to rebuild your economy halfway through the game. It's better to build a bit of an economy first. Simulations show that around $15 money is where you want to be, which is only a few coin less than when you're playing straight big money for provinces. Support cards will change that a bit, of course. But stay your course, gobble up all those duchies, resist the temptation for the quick points of going dukes early - don't switch until the duchies are out, or at least until you've got your 7. Whether or not to go for a province on a lucky $8? Well, generally, you don't want to. Your dukes will end up being worth as much by the end of the game, and, more importantly, you're speeding up the end of the game for your provincing opponent, which gives them real chances. After a certain point, though, once you're into your duke run, and you have a lead, particularly if your opponent is going for a big mega-turn, but basically any time you're in the duke stretch with a lead, you can go for it. Just do the math to make sure that it's more province denial on your opponent than it is speeding up the end of a game they have a good chance to win.

Finally, the mirror matchup. The mirror is probably going to be determined by who gets more duchies. Obviously, there are a lot of different ways to go for duke, so you could both be going for dukes while playing totally different decks, and ultimately, you want to follow your strategy for that particular board. But in general, the only reason a player who wins a duchy split in the mirror will lose is if they are totally out of economic gas, and being crippled, have to spend a lot of time rebuilding before they can get very many duke at all. Because, if you win the duchy split 5-3 even, even if you lose the duke split 5-3, you have a 6 point lead (heck, if you lose it 6-2 you're only at a 2 point deficit). The upshot of this is that the mirror matchup often turns into a game of chicken. You're both sitting there, building up your deck, and one of you makes the move to dive for the duchies first. The other one probably has to follow pretty soon. Take stock of what's gone on when the duchies run out. In a 4-4 split, you keep the pedal to the metal on those dukes. Same thing, more or less, if you win the split. But if you've lost the split, you may well want to give serious consideration to spending several turns re-tooling your economy to go for some provinces, only contesting dukes later on. This mixed strategy will often hold a better chance of success for you in the long run, as you can still pick up a couple dukes later on. 3 duchies and 2 dukes with 5 provinces matches up against the rest of the dukes, and it's probably easier than trying to stick with the full mirror, because once those dukes run, the duchy/duke player needs to find a 3rd pile.

Finally, there are two specific combos that I've got to mention here. The first is pretty well known, Horse Traders/Duke. There have been a few articles about this combo already, I suggest reading them if you aren't familiar.
The second is even stronger - Feast/Duke. This is actually a rush strategy, as you can start basically right away pounding out those greens. Silver on 3, Feast on 4, Duchy (later duke) on 5 is pretty fast, and because getting to 4 is actually a heckuvalot easier than getting to 5, especially in these decks, you can do it much sooner. Is it still gonna be a long game? Yup. But not much longer, actually, than your average province vs province affair.

Works With:
Duchy :)
Duchess
Money
+buy cards - your woodcutters, bridges, and especially horse traders
Filterers or sifters, like cellar, warehouse, oasis...
Gainers, particularly of silver - even workshop! - but most notably bureaucrat, particularly in the mirror
Cache
Hoard
Feast
Duchy
Did I mention duchy?

Doesn't work with:
Colonies
Particularly fast engines
Opponents that are resilient to greening (a la chancellor/stash, a nightmare matchup for this deck)
Hunting Party
Opponents' bishops (you actually want those coppers!)
Trash-for-benefit cards (most normal trashers, too)
Embargo - mostly (i.e., embargoing the provinces in reply can be very strong as well, and it totally changes the complexion of the game).
Swindler

100
Dominion Articles / The Key to Big Money Part II: Opportunity cost
« on: January 21, 2012, 11:08:12 pm »
In a big-money kind of deck, there's really two concepts you need to be aware of; the first is money density, the second is opportunity cost.

At the end of my previous article, we may be left with an interesting little question. The analysis of buying a second smithy shows that it should be good for our deck pretty early on, right? Like, look at this deck: we've got 7 copper, 1 smithy, 3 estates, and 2 silvers. Our effective money density is around $0.917, we've got around a 40% chance of hitting a 7 card hand... adding a second smithy would decrease our effective money density to around $.846, it's true, but significantly increasing the chances at getting two more cards in our hand is worth it, on the analysis, right? Well, if the choice were between buying the second smithy and buying nothing, you'd be right. But it's not. Any time you can buy a smithy, you can buy a silver instead (okay, the silver pile could be run out - extremely unlikely). And if you buy that smithy, that stops you from buying a silver. The correct play here is for the silver, not so much because of the collision problem (though that makes putting a free smithy in your deck barely worth it in the short term), but more because of opportunity cost, i.e. you have to consider what you buy in terms of what else you could have bought, not in a vacuum.

This is actually an important way of looking at all of dominion, not just Big Money, but I think it's easiest to understand in big money, because of the money density being available. So if you're trying to decide whether or not to buy a market, you can't just look and see whether that's good for your deck, you have to see if it's better for your deck than the alternatives.

One nice little way to look at this is with potion-costing cards. Since whenever you buy a potion, you could've gotten a silver, it's generally true that any time you have $PX (where $P means you have a potion in play and X is some coin amount), you could have bought something costing $X+2. For instance, if you buy a possession, that could have almost always been a province if you'd gotten silver instead. Your alchemists could have been laboratories (hey, that actually makes a lot of sense), your familiars could have been witches, etc. Now, whether or not you should go in for potions for these cards has a lot to do with variance and the usefulness of the potion later in the game, but it's a tremendous illustration of opportunity cost in action. The opportunity cost of buying a potion is a silver (or any other $4 or less cost card), and that silver could have gotten you a province; instead you have possession (unless it's very early in the game or there are engine decks at hand shooting for megaturns, you'd rather have the province).

Perhaps the simplest, first way many players need to realize the importance of opportunity cost is with the 'village idiot'. Villages, like any cantrip, can't possibly hurt your deck, since they replace themselves, right (apart from being able to draw them dead)? This is the thought process a lot of people go through early on. This may be true, but that doesn't mean you should just gobble up all the villages you can; if you start of the game buying village after village after village, you'll have a whole bunch of unused actions lying around, with no action cards to use them on, but more importantly, your deck won't have any buying power, because the opportunity cost of buying a village is a silver.

Another great card to look at through the lens of opportunity cost is Hoard. Hoard could have been a gold. So any time you buy a duchy with hoard, you could have bought a gold instead. Now you are gaining that gold as well, it's true, but you have to look at when in the game you are... do you want a 'free duchy' in your deck yet? Maybe so, maybe not. To say nothing of the times where the opportunity cost of going Hoard over gold knocks you down from $8, buying a province, to $7, settling for a duchy and another gold.
Yes, I'm saying that Hoard is overrated and misused.

The concept of opportunity cost extends beyond just once through the deck as well. That silver that your village cost you is going to hurt your buying power now, and on the next reshuffle, and on the next reshuffle.... Furthermore, the buying power reduction that you feel now is going to make you have to buy something worse now, which is going to further hurt you on the next reshuffle, and then that further reduction on that reshuffle will hurt your buying power even more on the next reshuffle... this compounding effect is why the early turns are generally more important than the later ones.

And you can further extend this paradigm to what I call implied opportunity cost. If I buy a chapel on turn one with $3, there are lots of costs to me. I have the $2 that I spent for it, the silver (or other 2- or 3-cost card) I could have bought instead, the cards that will no longer be in my deck once I use it, plus the turns that I'm using it for, on which I probably won't be able to buy things, plus it being a dead card in every hand after a while. Now, the third one of these, getting rid of the coppers and estates you're trashing is probably actually a boon more than a cost. And very often, it's a really big boon. But it does take the turn you're buying the chapel, plus probably two full turns of chapelling things, plus another turn which is partially hampered by trashing, plus all the times you have a worthless chapel in your deck. Which is all to say, chapel, strong as it is, is not all that great for big money.

Of course, this is just the tip of the iceberg, as to a certain extent, the entire game is opportunity cost upon implied opportunity cost, and how they all compound.

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