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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:50:59 pm »
Oh no, if we apply the Witherweaver-Is-Always-Wrong axiom, that screws up everything.
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52
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:46:29 pm »Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gain, there's no card to dole out.
Messenger doesn't actually say "depending on it", just "and". Ironworks has an if/then chart....
Which is shorthand for "if the card you gained with Ironworks is an..." Which is another way of saying "do something depending on what you gain".
Yes, that's what Ironworks says and means. My point though it that Messenger has no "if". It has an "and".
So if we accept the Clintonian assertion that:yes, both messenger and ironworks hinge on what the meaning of "it" is. For ironworks, the ruling was that the "it" is the card ironworks tried to gain; since it wasn't gained, ironworks fizzles. Seems clear that "it" should mean the same thing on both cards.and "it" means the card that Messenger tried to gain, would not each other player gain a copy of that "it"?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. You are correct.
To me, that suggests simultaneity. Which would mean if you chose to gain a Curse, and revealed Trader, you'd get a Silver, and everyone else would get a Curse.
Haha, I was just in the process of trying unsuccessfully to edit the previous post to say: Wait, maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader. If you Trader the 'would-be-gained' card, Messenger nevers gains it, so there's nothing to dole out! In which case you were right for a different reason.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:35:11 pm »Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gains, there's nothing to dole out. Got it.
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gain, there's no card to dole out.
Messenger doesn't actually say "depending on it", just "and". Ironworks has an if/then chart....
Which is shorthand for "if the card you gained with Ironworks is an..." Which is another way of saying "do something depending on what you gain".
Yes, that's what Ironworks says and means. My point though it that Messenger has no "if". It has an "and".
So if we accept the Clintonian assertion that:
yes, both messenger and ironworks hinge on what the meaning of "it" is. For ironworks, the ruling was that the "it" is the card ironworks tried to gain; since it wasn't gained, ironworks fizzles. Seems clear that "it" should mean the same thing on both cards.and "it" means the card that Messenger tried to gain, would not each other player gain a copy of that "it"?
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:21:26 pm »I assume this card has a quite interesting depth of openings, in that cards that you don't want multiples of become worse. Especially for player one.
I can imagine a game of Chapel Chicken: whoever buys one first opens himself to his opponent(s) sticking him with a second one.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:10:47 pm »Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
Messenger doesn't actually say "depending on it", just "and". Ironworks has an if/then chart....
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #4 - Expedition, Trade, Mission
« on: April 02, 2015, 10:42:15 am »"Next hand" means what you draw during your Cleanup phase?In which case Militia would really spoil your Expedition?
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Blurry gif on Dominion Welt
« on: April 02, 2015, 02:48:39 am »What's the German word for "Douchebag"?
Google suggests "dummkopf", but I'm not quite sure that captures quite the correct meaning.
No... nor certainly the vulgarity level.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #3 - Amulet, Swamp Hag, Hireling
« on: April 01, 2015, 02:20:57 pm »
Amulet:
Okay, I'm going to go a bit soap-box-y here first. Mic often talks about how people don't realize that lots of Dominion cards are swingy, it's the nature of the game. He is absolutely right. How many of you saw this card and though "Wow, that's really swingy". It IS incredibly swingy. Let's assume I opened with this card, intending to get some fast trashing (which I believe you very often will). If I draw it on turn 3 (5/12 chance), then by my second reshuffle (between turns 4 and 5), I will have trashed two cards, and this will be waiting for me to play again in the next shuffle. Getting it turn 5 (2/12 chance) sucks, I haven't gotten to play it at all - this is true of all cards. Getting it turn 4(5/12 chance) is probably a bit better than turn 5, but not tons - and it is WAY worse than turn 3.
Guess you need to open Amulet-Sage. "Accio Amulet!
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Transmogrify
« on: April 01, 2015, 01:11:36 pm »What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
I love your succinct explanation. But words often mean more than one thing, and this is a different meaning of Verklärung. As any bassoonist knows, Tod und Verklärung is Death and Transfiguration, and transfiguration is a certainly change of state, though a spiritual rather than grotesque one.
I have never heard this word used in any other way, but to be fair I haven't heard it used much at all.
Well, the piece is 100 years old, so the usage may well be as well. And it's true people don't tend to walk around saying, "Gee, I'm sure feeling transfigured today!"What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
I love your succinct explanation. But words often mean more than one thing, and this is a different meaning of Verklärung. As any bassoonist knows, Tod und Verklärung is Death and Transfiguration, and transfiguration is a certainly change of state, though a spiritual rather than grotesque one.
I have never heard this word used in any other way, but to be fair I haven't heard it used much at all.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Transmogrify
« on: April 01, 2015, 10:26:11 am »What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
I love your succinct explanation. But words often mean more than one thing, and this is a different meaning of Verklärung. As any bassoonist knows, Tod und Verklärung is Death and Transfiguration, and transfiguration is a certainly change of state, though a spiritual rather than grotesque one.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Transmogrify
« on: April 01, 2015, 02:28:05 am »
Does someone have a link to the No Visiting rule, or know which expansion rulebook it's in if it is?
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Transmogrify
« on: April 01, 2015, 12:26:17 am »
Regarding where a Transmogrified Nomad Camp goes [not a phrase I ever foresaw myself writing], I can see the fun of parsing the grammar and arguing it one way or the other, but ultimately -
Transmogrification: 'gain a card... and put that card into your hand'
Nomad Camp: 'When you gain this, put it on top of you deck'
- both clearly on-gain effects, seem to me as close to conflicting instructions as you're going to get. And thus would need to be resolved by rule (as I assume they doubtless are).
Yes, I understand the concept that if one card acts first, it can obviate the ability to obey the other (assuming lose track applies; if not then oddly the latter acting card would win the day.) I guess I'm saying any attempt to determine sequence from those phrases seems to me ultimately more speculative than dispositive.
Transmogrification: 'gain a card... and put that card into your hand'
Nomad Camp: 'When you gain this, put it on top of you deck'
- both clearly on-gain effects, seem to me as close to conflicting instructions as you're going to get. And thus would need to be resolved by rule (as I assume they doubtless are).
Yes, I understand the concept that if one card acts first, it can obviate the ability to obey the other (assuming lose track applies; if not then oddly the latter acting card would win the day.) I guess I'm saying any attempt to determine sequence from those phrases seems to me ultimately more speculative than dispositive.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Transmogrify
« on: April 01, 2015, 12:04:06 am »What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.At this very moment?! Cool. Are you a brass player? [who notoriously have books open on their stands during long rests in performances] Hope the conductor can't see your iPad.
Verklärung is strictly Transfiguration of course, which is in a way almost opposite of transmogrification (which my spell-correct knows, hey!). Still I kind of like it. Only thing is, if they use that and there every is a Transfiguration card, then they'd be screwed.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Previews #2 - Guide, Duplicate, Coin of the Realm
« on: March 31, 2015, 10:23:32 am »Just to clarify:
If I Throne Room Guide, I do not get two chances to mulligan on my next turn? Because there's still only one copy to call?
Moreover, would I get +2 cards, +2 actions?
I would assume not, as Throne Room plays it once, then tries to play it again but can't find it because it's on the mat.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Storyteller
« on: March 31, 2015, 09:43:09 am »Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.It's just something the internet does to people. Someone says something wrong and you feel compelled to correct them. What if someone believed them? Then they treat what you said the same way and pretty soon you're having a futile argument in what should be a delightful preview thread.
You have already accomplished the most difficult half of solving the problem - becoming aware of it.
Please allow me to provide you with some unsolicited advice: just let it go.
While some arguments can be fun, this one clearly has gone sour for everybody involved.
The trick I use is: as soon as I feel the urge to repeat a point I already made, just don't do it. It's time for reflection instead.
The reward (not being in a silly argument yourself) vastly outweighs the cost (someone you barely know might continue to think you're wrong).
And sometimes the reflection leads to the insight that I was wrong myself and excuses can solve the problem altogether.
And on that Sage note from the Champion, I think we're ready for the next preview!
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Storyteller
« on: March 30, 2015, 02:32:26 pm »I still don't get it...
What does "Pay all your $" mean?
Let's say I play a Treasury, then a Storyteller, and play a Venture (which drew a Gold) and a Bank as part of the storyteller. How many cards do I draw from the Storyteller?
The Treasury gave me +$1, the Storyteller gave me +$1, and the Venture gave me +$1, the Gold gave me +$3, and the Bank gave me +$3. That's a total of $9.
So I draw 9 cards, and have 11 in hand with 1 action left to play.
Does that example help?
(Edited to fix brain-fart over how much a Gold gave)
In that case, you get the 9 cards (to continue your action phase) but not the $9 for the buy phase, don't you?
That's the meaning of "Pay all you $"?
Correct. 'Pay' in this sense means spend/use/lose the $X you've accumulated thus far in the turn, and in exchange draw X cards. You now have an extra X cards, and $0.
I agree 'Pay' is a bit cryptic as it stands; I'm sure it's elaborated in the FAQ.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Important poll on Adventures
« on: March 27, 2015, 11:16:01 pm »
Ouch. Nothing worse than getting FAQ-whacked.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Teasers!
« on: March 27, 2015, 07:30:56 pm »
Sorry if dense question: What is word count?
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Rio Grande page for Dominion: Adventures is live
« on: March 24, 2015, 09:24:31 pm »Beetroot to the one you love, always.I swear I was going to post this, but you beet me to it.Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
Anyway, sorry about the Erroneous Bosch.
I cannot believe this only scored a +1. Clearly the best beetroot soup related pun I have ever heard.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: List of card art avatars
« on: March 22, 2015, 10:21:43 am »All of you are being so silly. Who is actually getting upset about taking avatars? I protest this protesting by taking an avatar someone already has.
No one was getting upset though, that's the funny thing. Its people getting upset on behalf of other people might get upset.
Well, I did get some (I think not terribly serious) grief about it the other day:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12371.msg472326#msg472326
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Rio Grande page for Dominion: Adventures is live
« on: March 18, 2015, 08:20:39 pm »Well, as I seem to recall Donald XV pointing out in the card preview, sometimes a Sage just gets you... another Sage.Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
Anyway, sorry about the Erroneous Bosch.
Every time I look at one of your posts, I think "Weird, I didn't write that!" because you have the same avatar as me. I identify with that avatar - it is exactly my writing pose. I demand you change it immediately!
I am joking or am I?, you can keep it. You better change it, though.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Rio Grande page for Dominion: Adventures is live
« on: March 18, 2015, 02:03:10 am »Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
Anyway, sorry about the Erroneous Bosch.
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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Rio Grande page for Dominion: Adventures is live
« on: March 14, 2015, 03:41:49 am »"Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
Dude, seriously. Cut it with the spoilers.
Do not trust anything Delita says! He's been a sociopath ever since his sister was murdered at the hands of the nobility.
P.S.: jsh, you should change your avatar back to that trustworthy thief you used to have.
I have to stay with the times, man. Changing avatars is the hip thing now.
Also it was a bard.
Oh, well of course you had to change your avatar if it was barred.
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Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online User Extension for Firefox and Chrome
« on: June 28, 2013, 04:14:07 pm »
This extension is awesome.
One question, more out of puzzlement than anything: I still can't seem to change my avatar with the latest Chrome version, though I changed it a couple of times before. The page comes up, I select and submit the .png, it says Avatar Saved, but keeps the same (custom) one as before.
I can live with my little Sage, he's not half bad at all, just wondered about it. Does it get sick of you if you try to change too many times?!
One question, more out of puzzlement than anything: I still can't seem to change my avatar with the latest Chrome version, though I changed it a couple of times before. The page comes up, I select and submit the .png, it says Avatar Saved, but keeps the same (custom) one as before.
I can live with my little Sage, he's not half bad at all, just wondered about it. Does it get sick of you if you try to change too many times?!
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Goko Dominion Online / Re: Dominion Online User Extension for Firefox and Chrome
« on: June 17, 2013, 06:48:50 pm »
Wow, that totally works! (And yes it's also Chrome.) Great fix, many thanks.