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Messages - jotheonah

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9726
Also, come on. Would a mafia be this obvious about FoSing everyone? That's a towntell, yo.

You did exactly the same things you accuse him of:

Suspicion everywhere, voting for other popular candidate. 

As Pops says, hypocrisy is not a scum tell. Also, when I did it I didn't have a bandwagon on my back. When I did have a bandwagon on my back, I voted for myself.

9727
False. A mafia pushes one wagon. A mafia would like to have at least one friend in town. I viciously attack my best defenders along with everyone else.

I'm just a townie with no satisfactory reads. And I'm very frustrated by this town's inability to stick with a plan.

Like I get "This wagon built too fast it must be scummy."  But in this case there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for the fast build = we're close to deadline, Grujah is unhelpful, informational lynch, good chance mafia. He was clearly the best chance of getting a lynch today. A lynch today, in general, is pro-town.  So all this stalling feels like "This wagon actually worked so it must be scummy." Which is an attitude that leads to no lynching. Which is bad for the town.

9728
Also, come on. Would a mafia be this obvious about FoSing everyone? That's a towntell, yo.

9729
Sorry, Cf, did you LIKE Grujah's post? Did it in some way tell you he wasn't mafia?

9730
Game Reports / Re: Good old-fashioned Talisman game
« on: June 23, 2012, 11:46:00 am »
Also turn 9 I add 8 Peddlers to my deck in one go, always fun.

9731
Game Reports / Good old-fashioned Talisman game
« on: June 23, 2012, 11:43:30 am »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-083621-ebd2aa7b.html

Man when this card shines, it shines. Talisman -> Feast -> Wharf, along with Worker's Village and Peddler, led to a power engine that came out of nowhere.

By no means played optimally - An early money buy would have gotten me to double Province faster, I think balancing my Feast/WV buys was slightly tricky, and I think the strat wanted at lest one more Talisman.

But still, fun set!

9732
I didn't feel the need to say the exact same thing everyone was saying when I laid down my vote, but for the record my vote for you is based on ballpark 65% you're mafia 35% your a lurky, not-very-helpful town. Now that we've had this fascinating Robz-exchange, your lynch will also be quite informational.

9733
Can people stop auto-equating my raising the possibility of someone being scum with my being willing to lynch them? It's really unfair. A good town should be willing to look at everyone, that's all I'm saying.

Whoah. I check in tonight with 1 vote and get up this morning at L-2. I won't claim anything yet, still not at -1 (though, If I count Glooble who Unvoted, I kinda am?).

Soft role claim? Check

Quote
Ok. I Know that I was suspicious to many back from D1, and that we are in pressure with time (to which I also contributed) but that was still an extremely fast forming wagon. I refuse to believe that it was 6 townies who suddenly all went - "Oh, I distrust Grujah 'nff to immediately switch to him" THAT FAST. I understand Frisk's "inactive townie is bad cause its harder to get a right lynch", but this is not about that.

Thanks for telling us what it isn't about, despite the fact that almost everyone of us pointed to this as a reason for your lynch.

Quote
Ok, Glooble. I am not surprised by the vote nor do I derive anything from it alone (he did vote for me D1 too, so he doesn't trust me much, but so did theo). No one else sick of this "I'm now almost sure that some of Mafia has low post count"?.
So, he goes to score points by being considarate and Unvoting (this also after Frisk calling him out for joining in first). Then does almost bureaucratic post:
 "Robz, your analysis succeeded in freaking me out enough (Why? How? Esp. when you and your twinbuddy are Robz top suspects if I understood correctly) to keep me from revoting Grujah at the present time. However, I'm starting to find it unlikely we'll reach a consensus on anyone else in the next two days."
So he still get some heat of by unvoting, but that still means nothing as he is determined that I am only possible lynch so he'll do that eventually. Perfect way to distance himself from a townie lynch but still support it.
Unvote Vote: Glooble

Totally unsurprising vote for an already popular candidate? Check.

Quote
Joth just plays aweful. I seriously can't believe half of his posts. Even his twin-buddy called him out just now. If anyone should get policy lynch, it's him, not me. He also done this stupidest hedge ever where after voting for me he said "give him a chance to explain himself". DSUFGSDFGHSU

one more thing. Pops. He seemed to be eager jumping on wagons early.
He followed my vote on O (Ok, with his own, different reason, but, might be just taking an opportunity. Also, SFS can be nitpicky, O can't?). He followed votes on me. Not much, but suspicious.

O's vote had a bit OMGUS feel, but not taking that against him.
Hand of Suspicion on almost everyone else? Check. Also the part about me is just rude. You're not online much, dude. I thought it would be nice to give you a chance to respond rather than lynching you with no warning. Excuse me.

Anyone see anything in that post that makes you want to lynch him less? Cause boy I don't.

Holy crap.

I went to bed thinking we might have 1-2 more votes, but we nearly lynched him?

unvote

I don't like any wagon that nearly lynched with prime townreads off doing whatever.

I'm going out for the morning and I don't want to mislynch while I'm sitting and drinking coffee.

I will return and re vote for someone, possibly grujah around 11 am eastern

Holy Probable Outcome, Batman! We almost killed the person I voted to kill! The horror!

Maybe I am overly sarcastic this morning, but this town is driving me up the wall. Let's lynch Grujah and get it over with. We can play the "which mafia are on that wagon?" game tomorrow.

I regret getting my hands dirty in the Galz-O debacle only because it's another freaking distraction for the most distractable town in the history of mafia and it's not a conversation that needs to be happening before we've seen a flip.

9734
One more thought before bed: The big lesson from MII for me was that you should always be ready to turn on your best friends, your strongest town reads.  In that game I let one person into my mental confTown category and he turned out to be Mafia.

So do I admit the possibility that O and Galz, who have read town to me most of the game, could be mob partners? Absolutely, in a heartbeat. Am I going to vote for them two days before deadline when we're not even at LyLo? Not on your life.

9735
Anyway, I honestly can't believe we're all still awake. I'll see you guys tomorrow.

9736
@O As far as I'm concerned, Robz has spun a great theory - if Grujah flips town.  If Grujah flips scum it all kind of falls apart though.  So what I'd really like to do is table all this nonsense for tomorrow and get on with the lynch that a good portion of the town seemed willing to get behind.

Grujah's flip will paint tonight's events in a much clearer light, and it won't hurt the town too much.

9737
His case has you and O and a third member of the team, who could be CF.  I don't really have to believe I'm scum to buy into it.

And to tell you the truth, it isn't Robz's case that's starting to convince me, it's the amazing sensitivity and overreaction you two have displayed since he started spinning it.

I know I'm the one who said survivalism isn't a scum tell. But acting like you have five votes on you when you have one FoS? That's the only scum tell I really trust. That's how i got busted in MIII. You guys got WAY TOO MAD and WAY TOO DISMISSIVE of a post by Robz that, while over-authoritarian and oddly timed, is not that ridiculous. His assertion that this wagon built too quickly? We all agree that's legitimate. His analysis of the Axxle wagon and this wagon? Seems like an apt thing to do at this juncture.  I wasn't buying the conclusions drawn from that at first, but I'm not used to this level of defensiveness from either of you, particularly Galzria. So yeah, I'm suspicious and getting suspiciouser.

9738
Jotheonah:

Target of a wagon with 2 confirmed townies on it
I screwup up, Jo warms to an O wagon
People are finished discussing my screwup for now, Grujah Wagon develops
Jo votes Grujah
Robz defuses Grujah wagon for now, FOSING me and Galz
Jo now focuses attention on me + Galz

I'm beginning to think I misread Jo earlier. Survtell is not scumtell, Survtell by throwing FOS and votes at anyone whose the focus of attention besides himself..

So much wrong with this. I'm not focusing attention on you, Robz is and, more importantly, you are. Second, the Grujah wagon is far from defused and I'M STILL ON IT.

And on top of all that I'm supposed to believe that the strong town read you've had on me all game, despite all the crazy, instantly evaporates when I put the tiniest bit of suspicion on you? OMGUS much?

9739
It was Robz who looked bad at first.

9740
Take a step back from this O-Robz-Galz fight and tell me it looks like 3 townies squabbling.

It doesn't look that way to me. The longer the argument goes on, the worse O and Galzria look.

9741
It doesn't seem that ridiculous to me, actually.

9742
Also, if Robz is right, and it's very possible, CF seems like the big target. He started Grujahmania.

Strongly dislike the way Robz is sweeping in, making declarations, and giving specific other people limited choices about who is mafia. At best, incredibly arrogant. At worst, scum trying to manipulate town.

A mislynch is not Game Over at this point. So I'm curious about why Town Robz would try to do this drama pre-flip when it would work just as well (for town) post-flip. He is acting as if Grujah has already flipped town, when he hasn't.

I see two very different attitudes back to back here.

Correct. Robz is either right or he's wrong. But even if he's right he's wrong. That is, even if he' totally right that Grujah is town and lots of scum is on his wagon, the way he's gone about halting that lynch is anti-town and ... confusing.

But I'm trying to keep my mind open to all the different possibilities right now.

9743
And the tone-down-when-called-out. And the scumslip earlier tonight. I'm revising my town read on you, O.

But I still want to lynch Grujah tonight. We need a lynch and we need real info.

9744
O, you're getting awfully jumpy. for less than one vote on your head.

and it's not the first time.

9745
Also, if Robz is right, and it's very possible, CF seems like the big target. He started Grujahmania.

9746
Strongly dislike the way Robz is sweeping in, making declarations, and giving specific other people limited choices about who is mafia. At best, incredibly arrogant. At worst, scum trying to manipulate town.

A mislynch is not Game Over at this point. So I'm curious about why Town Robz would try to do this drama pre-flip when it would work just as well (for town) post-flip. He is acting as if Grujah has already flipped town, when he hasn't.

9747
One more thing. Fast building wagon could mean we've lucked out and hit SK.

9748
Yeah, Robz, it doesn't do a lot of good for you to jump out and say Stop! Don't vote Grujah! Vote more or less everyone else! You need a plan.

I agree the wagon built up speed way too fast, but your whole case is much stronger post-flip, isn't it?  It's not impossible that this wagon is mafia-free, and it's not impossible that theres just one busser on it.

I dislike your shouting orders and doling out points to people who do things you like.

I'm standing by this lynch and waiting for the flip.

9749
Wow, how is it in a span of ten posts I can go from middling/high suspicion of a guy to really uncomfortable? I guess this is where I'm supposed to run the wagon home, but my goodness it started rolling quick.

The interesting thing is the spread of players (on my suspicion list) on this wagon. We range from O (decent town read), to Pops (strongest Mafia read), and just about everywhere in between.

And yet I really can't DISLIKE this wagon. Hmm... could this honestly be a quick rolling town wagon on scum? Gah. Don't trust it.

I was gonna make exactly the same post but didn't want to be accused of hedging. But yeah it's a little disconcerting.

9750
oh god what if he role claims.

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