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Messages - jotheonah

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9626
Also I feel like I'm the only one on this wagon who's posted anything that could be called a real case. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

9627
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 30, 2012, 09:13:27 am »
Some of those are quite clever! I would actually buy not-Bureaucrat.

9628
Um, For the record, wrote that before SFS's unvote.

Also, I love that SFS thinks I have a supernatural ability to avoid being lynched. But let's not put it to the test.

9629
Ugh. Frisk's last 3 posts have given me a town read, so he is making me start to second guess.  And I don't like that Axxle, my other top suspect is on his wagon. And if he DOES flip town AND you guys lynch me tomorrow, we really are in trouble. (unless SK/Vig manages to kill scum in the night)

Unvote while I try to get an idea of whether I could interest anyone in an Axxle wagon instead?

9630
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-181832-c02625cc.html

This was an interesting game. Not sure why DWetzel opted to Embargo Colonies rather than Highways, but we both had a similar approach to Embargo: Plow right through it. Unfortunately, I think that worked better with the Colonies than it did with Alchemists.

I had some luck with my Highways clumping together, and with his Swindler never hitting them (Highway into Cache would've been kinda brutal). Also a "Friendly Swindler" moment when he gave me a Trade Route to trash some of the Curses he was sending my way.

Just a lot of interesting interactions. The kind of game that makes me go "Yeah, Dominion is pretty solid."

9631
There's a lot more in those quotes than Frisk "explaining why he wasn't voting for O."  He does everything he can to put the breaks on that wagon.

Earlier today I was saying "Scum wouldn't abstain from voting, scum would bus."  But when I was saying that I hadn't looked at the way Frisk had abstained and the fact that he seemed to be trying to get others to unvote or to switch the target to me. Actually rereading the O wagon, I find myself looking at a whole different ballgame than when I was just remembering it.

(I still think at least one scum was bussing though.)

9632
Final note: I hate to be the one leading this charge, because it probably looks very "anybody but me" but I hope the quotes I've provided will convince you that this is evidence-based scumhunting. If it helps, imagine Tables said it.

9633
"who there have been actual cases against" = particularly scummy, since plenty of actual cases had been made against O.

I've been reading history - it looks like the best "zing" against O was that he had "forgotten" that SFS had cleared Tables.

What other parts of this case do you find compelling?

Note: you didn't vote for him either!

What got me was his weird vehemence against Robz's not-that-implausible group theory, actually. But I thought Galzria was the worse offender there. Ah well.

9634
Also I invoke the spirit of the dead:


If O comes up Mafia, then C.F. Needs to be the next target.


9635
I am online - but I will not be hammering O.  I hope that he is Mafia, and I generally agree with Robz's theory that there is mafia among the set of

Jo
Galzria
O
Glooble
Captain_Frisk
Pops

I don't understand why the logic for why O is in here.  He's the first member of the non Axxlewagon to jump on the Grujah wagon? 

I'm removing myself because I know I'm not mafia.  That leaves me with Jo, Galz, Glooble, Pops. 

As I've stated before, I prefer J to Glooble, and Pops to Galz.  J for legit suspicions reasons, and Pops over Galz for personality - since I don't really have a strong read for one or the other.  I am willing to let the twinclaim thing ride for a bit, hence my vote for pops, but I lynch J or Galz if need be.

So the BIG difference between CF's not hammering and my not hammering is this. CF announced an intention not to hammer, even (one assumes) if that led to a no lynch. Whereas I announced an intention to hammer if need be. Big difference.

9636
"who there have been actual cases against" = particularly scummy, since plenty of actual cases had been made against O.

9637
Willing to lynch (in order of preference): Popsofctown, Jotheonah, Glooble, Grujah, Robz
Strong-unwilling: Tables, SFS, DSell (due to V/LA)
Still-pretty-damn-unwilling: Captain Frisk, Axxle, Galzria

Where do we reckon O puts his partners on this list? The bottom if he's thinking about the current round, the top if he's planning for a worst case scenario of him being lynched (unlikely since at this point there was no wagon on him)

CF had a convenient excuse for not making his list until everyone else had (We need a methodology guys!) When his list does emerge, it puts Me, Galz, and Pops on top - three people already high on the list (and therefore candidates for the consensus). Two of whom I know are town (One we all know) and pops, who I'm pretty sure is town based on interactions with O, but Frisk continues to suspect. He puts O right in the middle.

And then the O wagon starts. And then this happens:

Well - I like that this wagon is different than my grujah wagon, but seriously... Glooble, is there any lynch you don't get behind?

Can someone explain why we are lynching O and not Jonah?  Table's magic list said so?  He tallied it up, eliminated the top guy, and then got to make his choice of the next 2 and now we're all voting for him? 

Why can't we lynch Jonah or Pops - who there have been actual cases against?

Pops started this up, and has repeatedly dodged questions of "how are we going to pick the lynch target" - and when called out on his cagey responses, he says "because it rhymes".

If it was anyone other than Tables or SFS driving the selection, I'd be really angry... now I'm just confused.

Wow. Desperate bid to save his V/LA partner much?

Yeah, Ok. That's enough for me. Vote: Captain Frisk



9638
Got it, sorry. Brain fart.

9639
Anyway, the discussion is distracting at this point, and it's not surprising at all that Frisk and Jo want that distraction.

The discussion is a distraction that you started with what I considered to bad reasoning - so I called it out.

However - agreed with everyone that we should be hunting mafia - not SK - at least until at least 1 more mafia goes down.  We do have confirmed mafia in the game (there is at least 1 remaining), and we don't even know if there is SK.

-- back on target --

So there are 4 of us (myself, DSell, Jonah, and Pops) of which we expect at least 1 to be mafia.  3 of us false lynched Axxle1. 

RobZ has cleared pops for some reason I don't understand.

J is J - Pops thinks he's town - Glooble thinks he's town.

I am not mafia - nobody suspected me in the Tables hunt - and then I failed to vote for O and now I look scummy as hell.

DSell - nobody suspects him as far as I know.

Does that summarize our likely suspects?

What are you referring to here? When did we go after Tables?

9640
CF, we could start a little fight between us that would make us both look bad, if you want?

Personally, I think that starting a wagon, staying on it, and then being among the first to remove your vote after someone else (Robz) pretty much killed it does nothing for your credibility. That's a great move for someone who already knew Grujah was town. However, O (confirmed scum), Galzria (confirmed townie) and I all felt like Robz's "Stop now" post was suspicious - just as likely a mafia saving his partner as a townie trying to stop a mislynch.

I had my read and you had yours. You took your vote off, I tried to get people to put more on.  But neither of those things is de facto scummy. The fact that I was joined in my pursuit of Grujah by both a confirmed scum and a confirmed, respected townie proves it.

9641
Two week deadlines. So, not for ages, basically. I will give an exact date when I'm not rushing off to work.

9642
The Chancellor arrives back at around 10 in the morning. He sees the diagrams covering the dirt floor, the three dead bodies.
"I uh... I brought some canapes," he says. "Also, the Witch was not very cooperative. In fact, she turned me into a newt."
Now it was the town's turn to stare at the Chancellor.
"Well, I got better."


Vote Count

zxvcbn2[1] - Galzria
Galzria[1] - Robz888
Robz888[1] - O

not voting - yuma, Captain_Frisk, zxvcbn2

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

9643
Thinking Robz is SK doesn't necessarily make me distrust his scumhunting.

But if he's correctly identified the team, and he's been fingered, that's bad for his wincon.

Currently, IF there's an SK, the town consists of: 2 mafia, 1 SK, 6 town. We lynch mafia tonight. SK and mafia both kill town. Tomorrow we're at 1 mafia, 1 SK, 4 town. We lynch the other mafia, SK kills somebody. 1 SK, 3 town. We kill the SK. For an SK win, he needs us to mislynch at least once more, pretty much.

So, basically, if my earlier analysis is right and Robz is SK, it's in his best interest to lead us away from the mafia if he has identified them.

But I actually like his mafia analysis a lot and it rings "true Robz" to me.  So I either have to throw out my SK theory or distrust RObz's hunting.

Or, I could trust Robz's hunting and re-evaluate his SKness based on tomorrow's flip.  But I'd be more ready to vote Axxle (PoE + scumminess) then Dsell (PoE with no scumminess)

9644
so in for role madness.

9645
The scum choice is to hammer the sucker. We're talking about the textbook busing situation. And saying that CF and I are scum because we were hanging around not hammering is just silly.

J - please don't put me in the same sentence with you.  I see you either trying to get me in trouble when you flip Mafia - or clear yourself when I flip town.

Sorry. Saying that I'm scum for not hammering is silly. Saying that CF is sum for not hammering is perfectly acceptable. That better?

9646

3). His playstyle does not suggest mafia to me. He was too irritating, and indeed, it got him into some trouble. We have killed irritants for less. I can't see him deciding to play that way as mafia.



[sarcasm] The mafia team is me, pops, and O. Our master plan was to all three play crazy, irritate everyone, and get ourselves lynched ASAP. We're really good at this game. [/sacrasm]

But like you said in 919, "you can't argue with results".

You've either got a memory like a steel trap or ... or I don't even know, that was impressive.

Yeah, though. The question you have to ask yourself is not just "is it working?" but "did we have any reason to suspect or even hope that it would work?"

I for one am expecting O's accomplices to be a good deal subtler than him in playstyle.

9647

3). His playstyle does not suggest mafia to me. He was too irritating, and indeed, it got him into some trouble. We have killed irritants for less. I can't see him deciding to play that way as mafia.



[sarcasm] The mafia team is me, pops, and O. Our master plan was to all three play crazy, irritate everyone, and get ourselves lynched ASAP. We're really good at this game. [/sacrasm]

9648
Gloob, as I said earlier. Imagine you're O's scumbuddy. O is at 6 votes. It's two hours to deadline.  You have two choices:

1.) Don't hammer.  Pro: You have a slight chance that by some chance no town player will both be online and have the inclination, and your partner might miraculously survive one more night. Con: If someone does hammer, you look very scummy the next day, because you could have hammered but didn't.

2.) Hammer. Pro: You look really good. You have a nice retort to any accusations against you. Con: You killed your partner, who was almost certainly going to die anyway.

The scum choice is to hammer the sucker. We're talking about the textbook busing situation. And saying that CF and I are scum because we were hanging around not hammering is just silly.

9649
You mean from 370 to 371? It's just pops being pops. Confidence in your reads, not a scum tell. Not wanting to explain your reads, also not a scumtell. We need to be looking for times when pops acts like not-pops. Like that longish post Gloob and I pointed out.

9650
Oh wait, you meant the quote in your vote post.  Yeah, that is a good point.

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