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Messages - jotheonah

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101
I think I've said this before, but I really don't understand why some people like to target lurkers so much.

1) Personally, when I'm scum, because it doesn't happen that often, I'm extra-excited to play the game. I can't imagine rolling scum and then just not posting.

2) When I'm scum and I'm trying to direct the exile, it's very tempting to choose a lurker because they're easy to exile and there's a decent chance they won't show up to defend themselves.

3) Lurking as scum isn't particularly strategic -- you're essentially giving up your chance to A) manipulate the town and (B) earn towncred. Why do that?

4) There's plenty of reasons to lurk as town -- IRL business, being overwhelmed by the size of the town and the lack of information, fear of being painted as scummy for what you say (though two of those could also apply to scum).

5) Scum has had a chance to strategize about their day 1 before the game even started, with the benefit of a partner to offer suggestions. They should be coming in more ready than anyone to engage.

So with all that working against it, why push for it? I'd say it has a worse-than-even chance of hitting scum. I suppose it has the side benefit of keeping active players in the game and removing players about whom it's hard to glean information.

102
Well the reticence to vote for Jack is really making me feel a certain kinda way about Jack. I mean, they can't all be his partners, right?

vote: Jack

103
Tell me more!

104
Why not gkrieg? Pretty lurky but there’s also a case there. Something for everyone.

105
The Joth wagon is a bit hilarious to me.

I’m expecting it to be a fad.


All the cool kids are into EFHW/Jimmmmm wagons.

You know, you can't just sheep me like this. I'm trying my hardest to townread you D1, but it's hard.

Also, of course it's not going to be a fad. You'd know better as town. And you know better as scum, but you'd lie.

I absolutely shouldn't weigh in here, but it's 100% a fan. When is the first wagon ever actually the day's exile?

106
EFHW has the first position on the wagon, not generally where scum likes to be
I have to comment because this is just so nonsensical to me.

First of all, like, how would you even go about avoiding being the first person on a wagon? Just like, never vote for someone that doesn't already have votes on them? Or be clairvoyant and know which votes will be sheeped by other players?

And second, um.... no. First person is pretty much the best position on a wagon for scum to be at. It doesn't happen all that often because it requires you as scum to actually convince townies to follow your lead, and that's hard, but I see no sensible reason why scum would try to avoid it.

On the plus side, joth has taken a completely outragous position, so that makes me more confident in his tonwieness.

Ok, you have some fair points here. But I think the starter of the wagon is too high-visibility. When people are doing wagon analysis, the person who started the wagon gets scrutinized pretty hard, along with the hammer vote. But, like, you're right that the starter of a wagon doesn't know they're starting a wagon so scum doesn't have much choice about it.

None of that changes that EFHW's vote strikes me as earnest. Not saying EFHW couldn't be scum, just saying there's better options.

107
This might work against me given what Didds just said, but I'm not really frustrated rn. Just trying to play my best game and lead my best life.

I sort of gave up on reacting emotionally to early wagons against me, because they happen with alarming frequency and getting annoyed about them just makes people vote for you more. Now I'm more about vote for me, don't vote for me, whatever, except maybe don't vote for me because I'd rather we exile scum.

108
inb4 someone mentions that partner-dependent cases are especially rubbish early game cases.

I'm fine with my vote where it is but I admit that it's the flimsiest of cases and I eagerly await a better one.

Technically I disparaged my own case twice in this post. Hence, "repeatedly" is technically correct.

109
man if I'd realized I was only at 4 votes instead of five, I wouldn't have put so much work into the case /s

110
sorry to totally botch that analysis. shraeye moved his vote quickly, which tells me that it actually was a joke.

So yeah, I am advocating Joseph or gkrieg based on their bad votes on me. gkrieg also has few enough posts that he should satisfy faust's lurker agenda.

111
oh shoot. shraeye actually did move his vote. damn.

vote: gkrieg13

112
I'm going to say a very controversial thing which is that my wagon is bad and nonsense and I think it's kind of scummy to be on it right now.

But which vote on my wagon is the scummiest, you ask? Well, let's meet our contestants.

I think the thing with Vigs is that the decision is made with less information than it would otherwise be. They can be fine and powerful, especially late game.

Right. Funny how this conversation is all based on joth incorrectly attributing the negative utility idea to faust. Actually, scumreading faust for seeming to value the vig is striking me as scummy. Even if he had said something about vigs being negative utility in the past, it's strange to expect him to be so consistent that he would say outing the vig is fine in this game.

vote: joth

EFHW has the first position on the wagon, not generally where scum likes to be, and her vote seems earnest, if slightly confusing (not sure how any of the words there add up to a case on me). So let's keep looking.

You're really going to make me trawl through old posts to find out that I was wrong about your take on vigs?

Ok.

I actually research my posts when I’m scum. Shoot-from-the-hip Joth is town joth.

You're actually suggesting that if you were scum you'd "trawl through old posts" to clarify faust's stance on Vigs before posting? Scum joth knows that Town joth wouldn't do that, and Town joth knows that scum joth knows that and therefore wouldn't do it.

A lie, that is.

Vote: joth

Vote #2 is also a more towny position, but could be scum trying to get something going. That said, I kind of like the case here. Jimmmmm's basically saying that if I'm aware enough of my own meta to comment on it in my defense, I'm probably aware of my own meta enough to circumvent it. But then, am I audacious enough to reverse my own meta, then immediately use that to defend myself? It starts to feel a bit overly complicated, not to mention ineloquent. Wouldn't I just do the thing and let someone else comment on the meta implications.

I could see Jimmmmm making this post as town or as scum, because it's either inauthentic or just poorly thought out.

Note for the record, that I pointed out faust playing out of character and Joseph rushed to his defense.

Also scum has daytalk.

vote: Joseph2302
Are you suggesting that in the 4.5 minutes between your post and Joseph's, Joseph and I coordinated that they should defend me?

It's entirely possible he took the initiative to defend you without coordination. Either way, it pinged me a little.
But Joseph made a good point that was missing from the discussion. It doesn't look like defending faust to me.
EFHW defending Joseph's stellar defense of Faust, but joth doesn't vote her for it???

vote: joth

Vote #3 on a wagon, especially when a good chunk has gone by since vote #2, is IMO the scummiest vote on a wagon. And you can quote me on that some day in the future when I'm in the third position on a wagon after some time has gone by.

shraeye's vote here seems like a joke to me. But he never moved it. So that's scummy.

Note for the record, that I pointed out faust playing out of character and Joseph rushed to his defense.

Also scum has daytalk.

vote: Joseph2302
Are you suggesting that in the 4.5 minutes between your post and Joseph's, Joseph and I coordinated that they should defend me?

It's entirely possible he took the initiative to defend you without coordination. Either way, it pinged me a little.
But Joseph made a good point that was missing from the discussion. It doesn't look like defending faust to me.
EFHW defending Joseph's stellar defense of Faust, but joth doesn't vote her for it???

vote: joth

Someone should definitely vote for shraeye here for the obvious defense of EFHW's defense of Joseph's defense of faust. I mean, it's pretty obviously a scum move.
Obviously, duh
Seems like joth wants to focus on this to try and just get some mis-exiles

There's a reason I'm already voting for Joseph, and it's that his vote on me seems the fakest and laziest. Because I made a joke about shraeye's vote on me, I'm obviously trying to get the town to "focus on this to try and just get some mis-exiles". I'm doing a great job, by the way, of lining up at least one misexile, so props to me I guess. Too bad it's my own.

My only misgiving is that this is almost too lazy to be scum.

vote: joth

I want to have a meaningful vote down and I don’t like how he is sticking to his flimsy case on faust.

See above. This vote is total nonsense, reflects a lack of having read the thread, and really starts to push my wagon into dangerous territory. But again, it's so blatant it almost seems more like bad town play than scum play because it's so blatant.

But the nice thing that gkrieg has going for him is he's also something of a lurker, and several people I respect have expressed an interest in a lurker exile today, so I could definitely get onboard there.

But for me, the winner is shraeye. The combination of being in the scummiest wagon slot and making an apparent joke vote but then not moving it is just enough to put him over the top.

vote: shraeye

113
vote: joth

I want to have a meaningful vote down and I don’t like how he is sticking to his flimsy case on faust.

I am definitely sticking to my flimsy case on faust which why I

(A) have repeatedly said my own case is bad

and

(B) have not voted for faust one single time

114
Idk if I’m going to have time for serious rereading before deadline. I feel like there’s probably been enough good interaction to find a vote with a serious chance of being scum. That’s not me, btw. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Anyway, if not I’ll just sheep one of my town reads.

115
I think Shraeye is the only one I haven't played with before. Seems like very short posts, but enough to seem active. Very shifty... already voted at least 3 different players. Is this normal? Keeping my eye out.

It’s totally normal. He doesn’t fly around as much as MiX, but he does unexplained things (like hands out passes or gives people points but doesn’t tell us what the points correlate to). It’s not scummy for him, really.

When RaeRae, who knows him best is playing, she says that scum Shraeye is like Shraeye-lite. There’s a lot of fizz but not much heft. But that is really hard to discern in D1.
So, is my fizz hefty enough for you today?
Gross.

116
vote: Joseph

OMGUS, 1 v 1, etc.

So you're that confident in your thread position right now?

You know, confidence is 90% confidence.

117
vote: Joseph

OMGUS, 1 v 1, etc.

118
Note for the record, that I pointed out faust playing out of character and Joseph rushed to his defense.

Also scum has daytalk.

vote: Joseph2302
Are you suggesting that in the 4.5 minutes between your post and Joseph's, Joseph and I coordinated that they should defend me?

It's entirely possible he took the initiative to defend you without coordination. Either way, it pinged me a little.
But Joseph made a good point that was missing from the discussion. It doesn't look like defending faust to me.
EFHW defending Joseph's stellar defense of Faust, but joth doesn't vote her for it???

vote: joth

Someone should definitely vote for shraeye here for the obvious defense of EFHW's defense of Joseph's defense of faust. I mean, it's pretty obviously a scum move.

119
inb4 someone mentions that partner-dependent cases are especially rubbish early game cases.

I'm fine with my vote where it is but I admit that it's the flimsiest of cases and I eagerly await a better one.
partner-dependent cases are especially rubbish early game cases.

Why did partner dependent come up at all? I couldn't figure it out when joth posted that.

my "case" against Joseph depends on he and faust being partners

120
I’m not sure EFHW has ever read me correctly. Not that I’m any better at reading EFHW.

121
I actually research my posts when I’m scum. Shoot-from-the-hip Joth is town joth.

122
inb4 someone mentions that partner-dependent cases are especially rubbish early game cases.

I'm fine with my vote where it is but I admit that it's the flimsiest of cases and I eagerly await a better one.

123
Yeah I should never trust my memory. Some of y'all have been vocal about vigs being negative utility, and I must have just ascribed it to faust because he and I tend to disagree dramatically on mafia theory. My bad.

124
You're really going to make me trawl through old posts to find out that I was wrong about your take on vigs?

Ok.

125
Remember, scum daychat is in discord now, which kind of changes a lot about expectations. Many people have their discords set up to give them notifications that they can get on their phones and on their computers. A scary amount of coordination is now possible.

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