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Messages - Screwyioux

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51
Dominion Articles / Re: Combo/Synergy: Courtier + Werewolf
« on: August 23, 2018, 10:50:22 am »
I think you should take some time to develop this into a full write-up, there's potentially a lot of helpful content here, that applies to and illustrates some general deckbuilding fundamentals.

In addition to what has already been mentioned, I think it's worth noting that this combo both enables and benefits from overdraw, and also how "self-sufficient" it is as a combo to build around.

With any source of plus action, the two-card combo does everything a Dominion deck usually needs to do-- it draws, generates money and buys, attacks the opponent. And even with weak or insufficient plus action, the deck can get value out of its turns by drawing Werewolves dead.

Idk, maybe some of what I'm hinting at belongs in a Werewolf article but just a thought.

52
Dominion Articles / Re: Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 23, 2018, 10:14:47 am »
I have thought about why this article feels somewhat lackluster to me. I guess the issue is: It does not have a message. The one thing it says at the beginning and repeats is
Once more for the people in the back: Groundskeeper does not help you build your deck, but it does help you win the game with it.
which is something an average Dominion player could have told you five minutes after first seeing the card.

Really the article stays on a technical and theoretical level the entire time. At no point is any concrete advice given that goes beyond "this card is good". Some examples are necessary. Consider the following scenario:

Both players have built similar engines that are pretty standard. They draw through their deck and generate $16 and 3 buys. Now it is my turn, nobody has greened. I can buy three Groundskeepers or 2 Provinces. What should I do? If I buy the Groundskeepers, I can play them on the following turns. There would be at least 2 more turns before the Provinces are gone. Each Province I buy subsequently gets me +3 VP. I expect to have 2 double-Province turns, so that is at least +12 VP. That is as much as the two Provinces. And Groundkeepers won't clog my deck. So I go for them and don"t get Provinces.

Now, same situation, but my opponent and me already have 1 Province each. If I go for Groundskeepers, my opponent can double-Province. Then if I double-Province afterwards, I have 24 VP and they have 18. They can win the game with another double-Province. So that's bad. But wait! I could triple-Duchy instead! That also gives me 24 VP to their 18, but now they cannot end the game, putting me in the better position. It is still the correct play to go for Groundskeeper.

So what does that tell us? It is usually good to get Groundskeeper over green if you can make sure to score at least 4 VP from each Groundskeeper (and I have sufficiently many buys). Here's a rule of thumb.


I need to give some thought on whether or not to take that feedback to heart. On one hand, what you're saying is absolutely valid, I don't get into many of the specific details of how Groundskeeper functions mechanically beyond "if it's going to pile, mind the split." On the other hand, that might just be a different article. My goal is to cater to a more general audience to give a miles-up view of the significance of the card for some guy who googles "how to Groundskeeper" or whatever. Meaning a lot of it will come off as obvious to a more advanced player.

But, If, as you say, the average Dominion player figures all of that out by glancing at the card, then it definitely needs to be re-scoped.

I'll think that over with the other criticism I've gotten.

Meantime, if anyone agrees or disagree that the majority of the article is pretty obvious, please voice that--I'm on the fence.

I think we can condense Faust's idea by framing Groundskeeper as a cantrip VP card whose value equals the number of green cards you expect to gain by the end of the game after getting the Groundskeeper(s). If you think you can split the Provinces 4/4, even a single Groundskeeper over your opponent wins the game for you. For a 3/5 split on Provinces, you need 4 Groundskeepers to equalize (assuming every green card is gained with all your Groundskeepers in play). For 3 Provinces and a Duchy vs. 5 Provinces, 3 Groundskeepers wins it for you for the same amount of buys as 3 Provinces and 4 Groundskeepers. Against 6 Provinces, well 2 Provinces, 3 Duchies, and 3 Groundskeepers equalize. This is not true for 2 Provinces, 2 Duchies, and 4 Groundskeepers, which falls short even though it's the same amount of buys.

Basically, you want players to think about how the endgame is going to go down, and how they should be balancing Groundskeeper buys with Duchies for the right mix of VP vs. reliability, because the math above shows that the maximum number of points is not attained by always prioritizing Groundskeeper over Duchy when buys are restricted. I mean, sure when you have 8 Buys you go to town on Estates, but on only 3 Buys maybe that is too slow.

If I end up deciding that's in the scope of the article I'll probably rephrase (steal) what you said and credit you and Faust.

53
Dominion Articles / Re: Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 23, 2018, 09:02:59 am »
I have thought about why this article feels somewhat lackluster to me. I guess the issue is: It does not have a message. The one thing it says at the beginning and repeats is
Once more for the people in the back: Groundskeeper does not help you build your deck, but it does help you win the game with it.
which is something an average Dominion player could have told you five minutes after first seeing the card.

Really the article stays on a technical and theoretical level the entire time. At no point is any concrete advice given that goes beyond "this card is good". Some examples are necessary. Consider the following scenario:

Both players have built similar engines that are pretty standard. They draw through their deck and generate $16 and 3 buys. Now it is my turn, nobody has greened. I can buy three Groundskeepers or 2 Provinces. What should I do? If I buy the Groundskeepers, I can play them on the following turns. There would be at least 2 more turns before the Provinces are gone. Each Province I buy subsequently gets me +3 VP. I expect to have 2 double-Province turns, so that is at least +12 VP. That is as much as the two Provinces. And Groundkeepers won't clog my deck. So I go for them and don"t get Provinces.

Now, same situation, but my opponent and me already have 1 Province each. If I go for Groundskeepers, my opponent can double-Province. Then if I double-Province afterwards, I have 24 VP and they have 18. They can win the game with another double-Province. So that's bad. But wait! I could triple-Duchy instead! That also gives me 24 VP to their 18, but now they cannot end the game, putting me in the better position. It is still the correct play to go for Groundskeeper.

So what does that tell us? It is usually good to get Groundskeeper over green if you can make sure to score at least 4 VP from each Groundskeeper (and I have sufficiently many buys). Here's a rule of thumb.


I need to give some thought on whether or not to take that feedback to heart. On one hand, what you're saying is absolutely valid, I don't get into many of the specific details of how Groundskeeper functions mechanically beyond "if it's going to pile, mind the split." On the other hand, that might just be a different article. My goal is to cater to a more general audience to give a miles-up view of the significance of the card for some guy who googles "how to Groundskeeper" or whatever. Meaning a lot of it will come off as obvious to a more advanced player.

But, If, as you say, the average Dominion player figures all of that out by glancing at the card, then it definitely needs to be re-scoped.

I'll think that over with the other criticism I've gotten.

Meantime, if anyone agrees or disagree that the majority of the article is pretty obvious, please voice that--I'm on the fence.

54
Dominion Articles / Re: Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 22, 2018, 11:52:20 am »
The first thing I would work on here is readability. Have clear sub-headings, do not use a line break for every new sentence, maybe use bold font for things that are very central. From what I started reading, it seems there are good ideas in here, but due to the messy formatting I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing.

Good feedback. I reformatted it to try to tie ideas together being less liberal with line breaks. Would you mind giving it another skim and seeing if it fixes the readability for you?
Much better, thanks.

One thing I do not understand:

Will you start to “miss” their price point once you start buying them?
Groundskeeper is a cantrip; unless there are very specific circumstances at work, why would I miss a price point I was able to reach before by adding cantrips to my deck?

I think there needs to be more focus on playing the mirror. It is clear that usually I prefer to build my deck first and then go for Groundskeeper. How much does this change when I expect the pile to be contested? Should I skip building to win the split? These are very difficult questions that are not really addressed

The whole "Groundskeeper as Delayed Scoring" section talks about various things that are reiterated later on and could use some serious cutting down. "Groundskeeper as Delayed Scoring" also implies that Groundskeeper can be used in a different manner. It cannot.

I think there should be some attention brought to the fact that in general Groundskeeper decks want to score on Victory cards other than Province in order to draw out the game. Groundskeeper is much weaker if the best realistic scoring option are Provinces. Similarly, it should be pointed out that "Groundskeeper loves reliability" also means that you want your deck to have some way of handling all the green cards that you are about to gain.

Thank you, I will work with this. There are some questions that are so rooted in game context that I won't be able to answer them with an article, but it's worth it to try at least.

On "missing" I can see why that came off weird. Basically what I was trying to get across is that just because your deck hit $5 for a Groundskeeper or something doesn't mean you'll be able to do that every turn unless your deck does the same thing every turn, like how big money sometimes buys Gold over Province if a freak hand gives it 8 early on. I'll work to make that more clear.

55
Dominion Articles / Re: Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 22, 2018, 09:35:37 am »
- Work in a joke about how much women love shopping
Rule 0 of article writing is avoid sexist jokes.

So this is a bit of an inside joke, I said something tasteless in the first draft and got burned for it. Personal wounds aside, it's pretty encouraging as a feminist to see such a strong backlash to tasteless sexism, even if I didn't mean it that way.

56
Dominion Articles / Re: Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 22, 2018, 09:33:38 am »
The first thing I would work on here is readability. Have clear sub-headings, do not use a line break for every new sentence, maybe use bold font for things that are very central. From what I started reading, it seems there are good ideas in here, but due to the messy formatting I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing.

Good feedback. I reformatted it to try to tie ideas together being less liberal with line breaks. Would you mind giving it another skim and seeing if it fixes the readability for you?

57
Dominion Articles / Groundskeeper-- Draft
« on: August 22, 2018, 09:11:30 am »


Groundskeeper


Groundskeeper is a difficult card to evaluate and an essential one to understand. It has very high scoring potential, and the pile is often hotly contested. Boards which play to its strengths often see it deplete, and winning the split can be game-decisive.

To avoid burying the lede for anyone who has the question “should I go for Groundskeeper,” It’s a very strong card. You need a compelling reason to ignore it.
Yet, while Groundskeeper helps you win the game with your deck, it does not help you build it.

Let’s start by talking about two Dominion basics Groundskeeper challenges:

One: Taking longer to build your deck risks an opponent getting a points lead, and making that up usually means depleting key piles (like Province) yourself, further hastening the game end. Groundskeeper scores points disproportionate to how much it lowers piles.

Two: Points usually make your deck worse.
Groundskeeper doesn’t change this directly, but your Groundskeepers will eventually score points, so gaining them is tantamount to scoring points that don’t hurt your deck.

   
Groundskeepers are Delayed Scoring

The key to timing Groundskeeper gains is looking at the card as alt VP. A deck that has/plays more of them has a higher point ceiling, so around when you would start buying VP cards, pretend Groundskeeper is green.
Essentially, it’s a cantrip worth VP equal to the number of VP cards you expect to buy (with it out) by the end of the game. On boards where you can gain only one of those per turn, you can usually expect that to be 2-6 VP, depending how your draws go.





Reading Groundskeeper Kingdoms- Does the Split Matter?


It’s important to acknowledge how skill-rewarding Groundskeeper is. Everything about the card is contextual, so we can’t give you much in the way of hard-and-fast prescriptive advice that won’t be wrong as often as it’s right. Above all, the presence of Groundskeeper rewards good game sense and an accurate read on your win condition.
That said, there are certainly some things that are helpful to keep in mind.

Groundskeeper’s greatest synergies are multiple gains and reliability (by which I mean being able to play Groundskeepers consistently).
Obviously, multiple VP gains per turn scores more points, but being able to gain multiple Groundskeepers per turn also makes them more important (as they are likely to score more points before Provinces empty).
If multiple VP cards or Groundskeepers are gainable per turn, or the decks are reliable enough to play all/most of their Groundskeepers every turn, the split will probably play a huge role in the outcome of the game and should be prioritized accordingly.

While Groundskeeper increases point ceiling without decreasing deck capability, it doesn’t do anything to increase capability. You should usually build your deck to be as good as it’s ever going to be (other than points you’ll score) before you start buying Groundskeepers.

At the same time, mind the split. On boards good for Groundskeeper, they will often pile out, and sometimes it’s worth delaying other deckbuilding to make sure you get enough of them. Whether or not the split matters, and how much you can afford to lose it by are very game-specific, but usually come down to how impactful each copy will be (which comes back to number of gains and deck reliability).


Playing Groundskeeper Games: A Field Guide to Aggressive Gardening

Keeping Groundskeeper in Check With Pressure:



When deciding how to play around Goundskeeper and how to interpret your win condition at any given point, consider the following.
Firstly, given enough time, having/playing more Groundskeepers pretty much always wins because of how they raise your point ceiling. Secondly, Groundskeeper’s greatest practical advantage is scoring (delayed) points without making your average turn worse.

It should come as no surprise then that a Groundskeeper deck’s greatest threat is endgame pressure. In other words, Groundskeeper doesn’t have its usual advantages if the game is over (or close to it) by the time  you have to put VP in the deck, or at least have it there for very long.
 In the rare situation it’s possible to empty Provinces over the course of a couple of turns (a la a “megaturn” like with Bridge Trolls or Horn of Plentys), Groundskeepers might not have time to pay off. That’s an extreme example to illustrate the point that Groundskeeper gets worse the less time it has to build up and score points.

Understand though, that ignoring Groundskeeper to pressure piles is an “all-in” proposition-- if you can’t make good on that threat and end the game before someone gaining Groundskeepers has time to catch up, they will likely outscore you.

How Many Groundskeepers do I want? Mirror Versus Non-Mirror:

In a vacuum, you want all of them, as many as you can get. But as with every other aspect of the card, there are some considerations.
The earlier advice of playing with and against pile pressure applies to Groundskeeper mirror matches as well. If both players are going for Groundskeeper, the pile usually empties and always gets low. Even when the split is important, a three-pile ending is something to watch out for before you gain the last one.


It’s also important to have an accurate read on how your opponent intends to win. Even when Groundskeepers are the best strategy, focusing on them in the wrong way can lose you games. Namely, if you play to them the same way you would in a mirror.
Outside of a mirror, it’s not necessarily a good idea to get all ten Groundskeepers when fewer could outscore whatever the opponent is doing. There’s the obvious limitation of how much time it takes to empty them by yourself, but it can also be unwise because emptying the pile potentially hastens the game end, which Groundskeeper usually doesn’t want to do against non-Groundskeeper decks.

To further explain the card and its nuances, we’re going to give some concrete tips using gameplay examples for context.

The more reliable the decks are, the more the split matters: 
If both players play all their Groundskeepers every turn and Josephine gets 6 of them to Martin’s 4, her estates are worth as much as his Duchies and double-Duchy turns are worth almost as many points to her as double-Province turns are to him. She is in a much stronger endgame position.
   
When Choosing between 1 or more Groundskeeper(s) and Province (or something to get you a Province), weigh points gain against reliability:


Anna has no Groundskeepers, but bought the first Province last turn. Her opponent Destry hits $15 with three buys and considers his options.

If Destry only gets 3 Provinces to Anna’s 5 because he goes for Groundskeepers and she doesn’t, he needs 13 additional points to win. He probably needs at least 4 VP cards to win anyway, so he must have on average 2 or 3 (2.5) Groundskeepers in play across all his VP gains to win with a Duchy (instead of the Province), or an average of at least 4 in play per VP card to win with an Estate.

So what should he do? I have no idea, and neither do you.
Because it depends on a lot of context I haven’t given you--   how likely either deck is to stall, which/how many VP cards he expects to gain before Provinces empty, could she 3-pile if he lets her start her turn with a points lead.

Again, the minimum number of VP cards he’ll probably need to gain is 4, so if he can play all of his Groundskeepers every turn and still do that, buying 3 Groundskeepers will maximize his score, effectively gaining 12 points versus Province-Groundskeeper for 9 points.
If he will miss out on playing one of his Groundskeepers once or twice, it’s closer, but still slightly in favor of triple Groundskeeper to maximize score, and we get closer to Province-Duchy being best the less reliable/more “sloggy” his deck is (how unlikely he is to play the Groundskeepers).

With multiple VP card gains per turn, the Groundskeepers obviously look a lot better. We do some more Groundskeeper-favorable math, but again, weigh the possible points against how much harder the extra VP cards make it to keep playing our Groundskeepers.



Signs not to Go for Groundskeeper:

No single condition makes Groundskeeper ignorable. Rather, these are factors that make the card weaker and steer you away from it.

In an unreliable/”sloggy” deck with single VP gains per turn, or in the face of a viable rush to the game end, buying Groundskeepers is often a waste of time.


Single-gain games usually reward speed over point ceiling, playing away from Groundskeeper’s strengths.

Similarly, as mentioned before, a “megaturn” deck that empties provinces over the course of one or two turns can often outpace Groundskeeper’s potentially higher but more gradual scoring. Note that adding Groundskeepers doesn’t hurt that deck, but it doesn’t help build it faster.

Junking attacks. No deck likes being junked, but Groundskeeper strategies can suffer more, needing both reliability and multiple VP cards to maximize value. I would say Swamp Hag is particularly brutal, but honestly they all kinda put the screws to yioux about the same without strong trashing.

If you take nothing else from this, understand that we’re talking about specific situations where Groundskeeper is weak, and you need to look for reasons not to buy it-- most of the time it plays a pivotal role in the game’s outcome and shouldn’t be ignored.


58
Pirate Ship + Lurker + bad opponent

Lurk a pirate ship, your opp. will likely "steal" it, and trash your coppers.


I did this to an opponent with Harvest one time. Lurker is a junking attack.

59
As OP mentioned, it has 4 types, which is great for Ironworks.

60
Dominion League / Re: Season 30 - Signups
« on: August 14, 2018, 11:41:49 am »
Screwyioux
@Sen3.14#2803
America/New York
Season 28, D4, Second Place

61
Dominion General Discussion / Re: SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 02, 2018, 09:55:25 am »
If you want more diverse and accurate metrics for this you should cross-post it in other places like Reddit, Discord, possibly even BGG? There's going to be a LOT of onus put on the reader's ability to discern the value of what essentially amounts to a popularity contest, but at least that way you could avoid an echo chamber effect.

62
Solo Challenges / Re: Minimum Possible Points (without Wall)
« on: July 31, 2018, 11:58:07 am »
I was curious what the least possible points total was, but keeping Wall out makes the challenge actually interesting.

Someone in our Discord (Avorian, shoutout) came up with this. Given the Wall ban, if you replace Sauna with Marauder, this is most likely optimal, though I have not calculated the negative score possible (will be somewhat dependent on player count to determine curse pile and silver/gold supply, also  questionable whether or not you could add Platinum):


63
Solo Challenges / Re: Minimum Possible Points
« on: July 31, 2018, 09:53:42 am »
Yeah if you want to make this interesting, I think you need to ban Wall and make it "most negative Wolf Den/Bandit Fort score." You can just specify those two landmarks (and only those two) and ban Black Market. Constructing a kingdom from there to get the lowest possible score is an interesting puzzle.
Otherwise, as Gendo said, the solution lies in shoving as many cards in the deck as possible.

64
I don't doubt that, but if my opponent is relying on Zombies to get something done for some reason, I like my chances to win that game no matter what I do (Ruins shenanigans aside).

There’s a lot you have to learn and see about Necromancer games! Often it is inconsequential but occasionally the nonterminal draw, Action trashing, mason trashing, and play-from-trash stuff is essential to a board.

Oh Necromancer is a really cool card, and often quite good. But I will say that any deck that falls apart when it loses access to Zombie Apprentice probably wasn't doing *amazing* things with Zombie Apprentice either.

65
I don't doubt that, but if my opponent is relying on Zombies to get something done for some reason, I like my chances to win that game no matter what I do (Ruins shenanigans aside).

66
Lurker and Rogue can gain Zombies out of the trash.

This was useful for me because my opponent did it. Turns out the Zombies are actually pretty bad cards if they're in your deck.

67
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 27, 2018, 08:50:10 am »
I guess the terminology confusion is partly due to other boardgames.
What is called a golden deck in Dominion is called an engine in a tableau builder. For example if you consistenly make x VPs via consuming in Race for the Galaxy.

For obvious mechanic differences it makes no sense to use the term engine for a deckbuilder in which setting up a static, VP-generating deck is a rare exception instead of, like in the case of tableau builders, the norm that occurs in a large fraction of games.

This is a huge part of where the confusion originates when you start talking about Dominion with people who aren't as focused on it in their gaming as the average FDS frequenter.

68
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 26, 2018, 04:29:32 pm »
For games in general, an "engine" is "do more." You increase how much you can do with your turns (yes or how many turns you get). When engine games started to be a thing, they were also called "snowball" games, after snowballs getting bigger as they roll down hills. Your engine snowballs; it does more and more.

In Dominion there are three basic ways you can do more. By default you get 5 cards a turn, can play one Action, and can gain one card. You do more by drawing more cards, playing more Actions (not necessarily terminals), and gaining more cards. Gaining more cards includes having the economy to pay for them (or using Workshops, which provide their own economy). So getting better economy is part of this too.

When people talk about engines in Dominion - and of course all that's useful is what people use the term to mean, not what any one person would like it to mean - they tend to mean decks that include all three of these elements. You have to be drawing more cards, playing more than one Action, and gaining more than one card.

I don't think there are people who seriously talk about a deck that has no draw or can only play one Action a turn as an engine. If you can only gain one card, well that can be good, drawing your deck with Labs say, and the Labs do snowball, to a point. But it's limited, even if the Labs never run out. To some people it may count but I think to most it does not; it's "drawing your deck" not "an engine."

It's all a loop feeding itself. Drawing, playing, and gaining more cards all help you draw, play, and gain more cards.

A weak engine is still an "engine." You would like to draw your whole deck every turn, play everything, and gain lots of cards; but just getting part of the way there is still an engine.

It's interesting to hear it in that perspective, calling something an engine if its output serves to increase its output on future turns.
It makes a degree of sense when you think about it too, like Silver gets you to $6 so you can buy Gold which helps you buy more gold, calling that a "money engine" isn't completely ridiculous if you look at it in the scope of tabletop gaming at large, not just how we're used to talking about Dominion. And focusing on their aspects that break the rules of the game (like only being able to gain one card).

69
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: July 25, 2018, 04:26:25 pm »
Through the Looking Glass:

Event: $0:

 You may reveal a hand containing at least 7 cards and no actions or treasures. If you did, flip the Reality token.
At the end of the game, after scoring, if the reality token is face-down, instead of deciding the winner as normal, the player with the lowest point total wins the game.

(Setup, place the Reality token on this card, face-up).

70
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 25, 2018, 03:40:17 pm »
OK I had an answer all ready, but now I'm just wondering why you're doing this survey thing instead of people just posting here in this topic.

Mostly because that same link is in several different places throughout this series of tubes we languish beneath.

Doing it as a google doc puts everyone's responses in the same place.

71
Dominion General Discussion / Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 25, 2018, 02:25:31 pm »
Just want to get some feedback from different voices. Put an Engine in Dominion into words as best you can:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1efjKpTpZoYOxlwtHwmSiBLxSdXxCZ17_IpTjB84LrjE/viewform?edit_requested=true#responses

72
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Feature Request: Mute the chat
« on: July 25, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
Hey, FakeNews again. It's been a while since I heard about that guy.

Don't let him get to you, he's a habitual troll.

73
so City quarter and royal blacksmith are much more effective when you dont play them on the first shuffle

Ooh I opened $7 with Cursed Gold. King's Court's such a good card...

74
Discard attacks deserve a special mention in the first 4 games turns vs the rest of the game, as playing Militia on your opponent before the second reshuffle makes them much less likely to hit $5 to buy whatever key card they're aiming for, or keeps them from trashing as many cards from hand.

This keeps being true throughout the game, but less so as their deck becomes proportionately less copper/junk.

75
Sentry and Count are MUCH worse at trashing if you get them after the second reshuffle (actually they're worse after the first, but they go off a cliff from there).

Vampire/Bat can be pretty bad to rely on for trashing if you can't get a Vamp and turn it into a bat by turn 5, but that card has other utilities so you tend not to care as much.

Jake of all Trades is also a good deal worse at trashing if you don't open with it, but the games you'd buy JOAT but not open with it are a rarity.

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