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Messages - Gazbag

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301
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Offering, the Heirloom that time forgot
« on: April 06, 2018, 01:21:48 pm »
This could end up better than Grand Market for one player and a Navigator Bureacratty thing for another!
It's still only one card and probably less swingy than Magic Lamp.

I'm not sure, this has the potential to be the best card in one player's deck and an actively bad card for the other. Sure it's just one card, but it's a card that you get for free and are basically forced into using, we've all seen how much faster Goat makes games and how Cursed Gold can slow things down - imagine if one player had Goat and the other CG, I imagine this can have a similar impact if the Boons fall a certain way. More importantly though there is much less skill involved with this than with Lamp. I still think it's a fun card for it's intended audience though!

302
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Offering, the Heirloom that time forgot
« on: April 05, 2018, 12:30:47 pm »
Seems like a fun thing to play with friends in a more casual setting, but I would imagine it would be the deciding factor in too many games to be much fun in a more competitive environment. This could end up better than Grand Market for one player and a Navigator Bureacratty thing for another!

Random Heirloom idea this made me think of is a Copper that has 1 Boon set aside Druid style that it does. So with Flame's gift it would be Goat or with Mountains gift it would be Lucky Coin and with some other Boons it would be more exotic and with Moon's gift it would be Copper.

303
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
« on: April 04, 2018, 12:05:22 pm »
Transmogrify is the original Salt the Earth.

304
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: April 02, 2018, 02:28:18 pm »
Just a random freezing attack idea I had for a Duration card:

While this is in play, when another player gains a non-Victory card, they freeze it 3 times.

Probably not that strong so it might also be OK to you use 4 or 5.

Yeah this is a nice idea, it's basically what the next version of Tundra is like at the moment, but it's limited to the first card gained just so it doesn't have the potential to be too miserable. I haven't tested it much though and Yeti is pretty nice as a freezing attack so it could be a little redundant.

I had chance to do a nice bit of playtesting this weekend, although I forgot to record any exact kingdoms. One game had Wanderer and Spelunkers, which I discovered have quite nice synergy with each other as having some Wanderers in reserve means you can discard down to 2 villages with Spelunkers and still kick off your engine. I remember this game had Forager, Blessed Village, Shanty Town and Wine Merchant too. Wanderer seemed much more viable as draw than Oracle, but I'm happy with it costing $3, it's still no Gear I'm pretty sure! Spelunkers was a nice way to add money to the deck, I liked how it played.

There was another game with Cabin and Frost Spirit, Frost Spirit was strong yet again, but I think it's pretty fun and interesting so I like it. Still have to decide whether to introduce measures to stop you setting aside Provinces though... Cabin was basically garbage though, like, the effect you get is strong for the price compared to cards that do similar things, but getting money, Silver gaining and Chancelloring aren't really necessary things for most decks so it seemed like you were better off just using treasures and reaping the benefits from opponent's Cabins than actually using Cabin. I still like the basic concept of the card, so here's a buffed version (with bonus coffers update!):

So now it gives you a buy too and it gains gold instead of Silver. +1 buy is nice, because the set really needs more +buy and it means you're getting something useful that you need to actually buy a Cabin to have access to. Buffing the Silver gain also buffs the drawback because it's better for you're opponent too, but if you bought a Cabin you should have a good plan for the Gold and maybe your opponent doesn't. I guess it's kind of similar to Sacred Grove now, but I think it's different enough.

Rediscover was still completely broken, so it'll need another big overhaul. I would like a Remodel type thing in the set though so I'll have to work on it some more. To be honest just making it not a cantrip would probably make it reasonable.

Outcast has been sitting there being kind of fine, but off theme and a little boring and similar to Sleigh. So I'm going to try this new thing as a replacement. Draw-to-X is a fun thing that people always seem to enjoy and Diplomat and Leprechaun are two of the most fun cards from recent sets so it kind of tries to do a similar thing to them.

So if you have exactly 3 cards in hand (after playing it), it's Baker for $2 woah! And if you have fewer cards then it becomes Lab or better, but you'll need to find a way to reduce your handisze first, playing one from a 5 card hand does nothing, but does set up your next Outcasts. I could see this at $3, but spamming too many could certainly backfire so it's $2 for now.

Oh here's better worded things:




305
I feel like the Bureaucrat attack (in it's current form) kind of needs to be on a weak card, just because the pin potential would be pretty real in a no Estate trashing game. That could of course be easily fixed by putting a handsize limit on it though. I was quite surprised that Woodcutter got the axe over Bureaucrat though, it's much more useful and simpler. I'd even take Thief over Bureaucrat to be honest... at least it can actually do damage in certain conditions and make for a good story.

306
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 31, 2018, 12:19:31 pm »
This treasure Raider is much stronger than regular Raider because you can play it before your other treasures. This Night Watchman is also very different because you play it before you buy, which eliminates Night Watchman's ability to topdeck cards you buy when you're drawing your deck. Ghost suffers this problem too, even worse actually, you can't buy a card and then Ghost it if Ghost is a treasure. Devil's Workshop and Monastery just don't work as treasures of course (without very tortured wording at least).

I find calling the Night phase unnecessary a little strange, personally I think it's the best new thing since Events, the cards are super fun! What other purpose could an expansion have then adding more fun cards?

307
#13104554

Here's a game from my Exorcist cagematch with markusin where Harvest was important. It was the only $ giving action for King's Court and Embassy could be used to seed the discard.

308
Haunted Mirror is my 2nd favourite way to gain Ghosts.

309
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Revolution
« on: March 26, 2018, 04:45:32 pm »
These seem pretty sweet! I think they do a much better job of doing the symmetrical effect than Wanderers, because you had to use an action to play Wanderers and could play them in the Action phase you'd only ever use them when you could break the symmetry. I imagine these will have a similar effect on the game to Heirlooms like Goat and Lucky Coin. But whether they speed the game up or slow it down will depend on the order of the weathers.

I'm not sure on a few of these effects though. Cloudy and Windy are pretty similar, I think one of those could be replaced. Stormy is quite swingy early and just kills turns later on so I'm not sure how fun that would be and Foggy seems a bit much, I think it could just give Diverted. Of course because of the nature of these it's not about making them "balanced" like normal cards, it's more about whether the weather is fun.

Also Dew isn't a weather, that's the biggest problem. You could have something like clear or mild or maybe like hail or sleet.

310
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Holy Week Kingdom
« on: March 26, 2018, 12:38:24 pm »
I misread this as holy weak kingdom at first and was expecting Transmutes and Harvests!

311
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Surplus
« on: March 24, 2018, 12:00:44 pm »
If you're using a mix of Werewolf and e.g. Patrol for draw and are planning on using some Werewolves for attacks each turn then you run the risk of drawing all of your Werewolves early in the turn and being forced to use them for +card and then draw a bunch of Patrols that don't do much. If you had all Werewolves it doesn't matter what order you draw them in, that's the value of modal cards. So if you're planning on using the Werewolf attack and some kind of terminal draw card for draw you should probably use Werewolf for that draw.

312
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:56:44 pm »
Every Champion game has Champion nonsense. It's called Warrior. Every Champion game is also broken and luck-driven, and I feel not the slightest remorse for Champion games with Road being broken and luck-driven. I guess it should be fixed, but well, so should Warrior. That card is easily second in my worst list. And in the end of the day, hey, if you have Road and Champion, just draw your deck, and then if you have discard for benefit, calculate the max you get, win the game. People usually don't starve revealing Moat for eternity, either.

Yeah Champ is pretty dumb, I don't play with it anymore irl. I actually like the idea behind Road, although I have a few balance issues with it as we all know. I mentioned Road here simply because I wouldn't have come up with Wanderer without thinking so much about Road following that heated debate. Perhaps putting in that Champion comment made it seem like I was taking a dig at Road, that wasn't my intent! I know how easy it is to get defensive about these things, like with the Glacier thing.

Anyway, I understand that I brought up Road here, but I'd appreciate it if you could at least give some insight on my cards as well. This topic is supposed to be about my Ice Age cards, not the Page line or Road.

As to not be a hypocrite, Wanderer needs clearer wording Commodore Chuckles is right that just saying you can play it is confusing and isn't clear enough. The question is whether calling for -action or just playing it from the Tavern is best. I like playing from the Tavern myself, it doesn't really create any new rules stuff in the way that calling for -1 Action would, you don't have to specify when it can be called so there's words saved and it's friendlier with Adventures tokens and whatnot.

313
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament 1: Nocturne
« on: March 23, 2018, 07:03:32 pm »
Gazbag 3-0 amoffett11

Games:
#12894466
#12894738
#12895282
Both players got Tracker in every game!

314
Dominion General Discussion / Re: When are Travellers ignorable?
« on: March 22, 2018, 01:27:58 pm »
Being serious though, Hero is good because of Champion, it's super easy to massively overdraw your deck once you have Champ set up and Hero is a very efficient way to jam a bunch of money your deck at that point.

That's not true. Just because you get Champion set up doesn't mean you're suddenly going to get a bunch of terminal draw out of nowhere. While it is "easy" to massively overdraw your deck with a Champion in play, you can usually get there at least as fast by deckbuilding intentionally and taking advantage of the positive feedback loop nature of Dominion instead of getting yourself stuck with the very disappointing Page line cards while your opponent has cards that actually do something.

This a foolish way to approach the game, you should evaluate these things on a kingdom by kingdom basis. Sometimes Hero is going to be the most efficient way to add payload to your deck, sometimes there will be something better. Calling cards "disappointing" and insinuating that they don't do anything is just going to make you lose games as you miss the interactions that make them strong. Even cards as weak as Mandarin and Counting House shine in certain kingdoms.

315
Dominion General Discussion / Re: When are Travellers ignorable?
« on: March 22, 2018, 11:57:17 am »
To be fair, I rarely buy Merchant Guild because it's that much worse than Bridge.

Being serious though, Hero is good because of Champion, it's super easy to massively overdraw your deck once you have Champ set up and Hero is a very efficient way to jam a bunch of money your deck at that point.

316
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 20, 2018, 03:02:57 pm »
Wanderer is very confusing. I'm assuming that playing it from your Tavern Mat uses up an Action? When the official cards say "play" or "you may play" the playing doesn't use up an action, so this is a break from that. Also, all of the official Reserve cards are "called" from the Tavern Mat, not "played," and they can only be called at times specified on the cards. There are no rules on "playing" a card from the Mat, and a time is not specified. Can I "play" it at literally any time, including the Buy phase?

It uses up an action, you can only play it any time you could play an action. I considered saying "You may play this from your Tavern mat as if it was in your hand." would that be clearer?

317
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 20, 2018, 02:56:02 pm »
The trade off he was talking about is that the less Roads you have, the less likely you are to start your turn with one in your hand.

Yes that's the reliability part, it's more reliability but worse draw vs better draw but less reliability. I'm saying the card is so strong that it doesn't matter, because no matter what you do you're drawing more and being more reliable that other options at this price.

In all fairness, when you write "There is no tradeoff!" one has to assume that you intend to say there was no tradeoff. Either way, I'm not opposed to testing a 5$ version, as I said. Either either way, I'm also not sure what to think of the fact that you are assuming a deck with no/poor trashing when talking about Farmer, but are willing to assume you would draw Town and Road together often enough to buy it over Lab "99% of the time". I find this hyperbole and "I'm right, fight me" comments unhelpful and to be honest, it's not the kind of discussion I want to have. In fact, as my life has shifted to doing actual games and I'm doing fan cards for fun only by now, I actually prefer leaving them flawed over having that kind of discussion. So yeah, willing to try out and discuss stuff, but no interest in fights.

In a trashed down deck the sifting is pretty meaningless, which is why that was a useful assumption. I'm comparing Town/Road to Village/Smithy style decks not Lab, Town/Road is much more consistent for the reasons I outlined, that you end up massively over-villaged because you can easily convert excess +actions to +cards. The lack of tradeoff is to with the fact that Town+Road is easily strong enough to be $5 or $6 and Town on it's own isn't particularly overcosted because village for $4 is only overcosted in a kingdom with a different village variant. I haven't used any hyperbole, I just genuinely think this effect is that good.

The fight me part was not serious at all... I can't really believe I have to explain that, especially considering we've actually interacted quite a lot and tested cards together and you must have at least some idea what my character is like and what my intention is with a comment like that. Sorry if I upset you in any way anyway, but honestly I think I've articulated my thoughts on this pretty clearly and as you said, it's just fan cards, aren't we all just here because we find thinking and talking about them a bit of fun?

318
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 20, 2018, 02:14:54 pm »
More specifically, you need to add "..a card, if it is.." to the when gain statement. Right now the otherwise clause reads "If you don't gain an Action or Treasure, put it [no antecedent] on top of your deck"

Oh I see what you mean now, it needs to say "when you gain a card, if it's an action or victory...Otherwise..." I'll change it when I get round to changing the cost... thanks for pointing that out! The problem wasn't with the otherwise clause, it was with the first one.

319
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 20, 2018, 12:45:35 pm »
Artefact needs some rewording. As of now, the "Otherwise" clause is completely nonsensical.

Care to explain? I think it's pretty obvious how the card works and I'd rather make sure it's actually a good card before worrying about the perfect wording. As an example Jester uses "otherwise" wording so it's not as if it's a thing I made up, was this changed in 2nd ed? Because I'm not too bothered if that's the case, note the lack of "coffers" wording.

320
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 20, 2018, 12:19:56 pm »
The trade off he was talking about is that the less Roads you have, the less likely you are to start your turn with one in your hand.

Yes that's the reliability part, it's more reliability but worse draw vs better draw but less reliability. I'm saying the card is so strong that it doesn't matter, because no matter what you do you're drawing more and being more reliable that other options at this price.

321
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: March 20, 2018, 11:38:45 am »
Artefact

Oops this was supposed to cost $5, like a Contraband variant, but instead of blocking things it slows them down, but oh no it speeds up Victories! So it doesn't become a broken Gold when you're buying the greens, also speeds up Nights, but a lot those are gained to hand so it still messes a lot of them up!

Wanderer

Inspired by Aspers Road, from his Town/Road combo. This is limited to 2 plays per turn, so no Champion nonsense. Even with no Villages this can be played on later turns, like having a Smithy in reserve so it's never "just a Moat". I think this is pretty sweet, doing something new with reserves and it seems pretty well balanced at $3 to me?

322
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 20, 2018, 11:21:42 am »
Okay so I realise now that I was purposefully underselling the draw Town+Road gave in my big ol' wall of text because I was assuming that you take Road every time, and generalising that to each double Road play drawing a dead Road. 

Anyway I'm seeing Town/Road being described as a "wonky" or "unreliable" Lab... that's just missing so much you can do with this card. It's missing the fact that this is a village for $4, you know like Walled or Farming village (their additional effects are very marginal, and in a lot decks decks where you want villages are basically just Village). So already, completely ignoring the existence of Road we have a strong card (under my definition of strong anyway). Now look at Wandering Minstrel, you add a little bit of sifting to village and all of a sudden it's the 3rd highest ranked $4 cost, this should be a signal to you for how strong the base village effect is and how easy it is to make a busted village+.

Anyway I outlined above how you can sub Towns in as Smithies in a village/Smithy deck and not only will the deck be more reliable because of an increased village density, it also has more drawing power than the village/Smithy deck, because the Town+2 plays of Road combination draws as much as Hunting Grounds (+a Road returning to hand). Note as well that this deck is always build-able because you use Town+Roads alongside Towns with no Roads. This card is pretty much strictly better than Smithy for this reason in an non-big money deck. But Town+Road is on the board so big money will never happen, so in actual games it's just always a better buy than Smithy.

The unreliable argument just holds no water because Town is self enabling. You get the draw for free so you can spend more gains on villages.

Okay now onto Asper's argument of the tradeoff between reliability and drawing (dead roads decrease drawing). The Road is optional! There is no tradeoff! Even if the road wasn't optional, as I'm saying like a broken record, this still outclasses Smithy in any reasonably competently built deck. The raw power here is so high and cheap that the perceived drawback just doesn't exist, if you had to pay $5 for a plain village if you didn't want the Road then maybe there would be a tradeoff because then you're overpaying for a village, but because you can just pick up a village for $4 there is no tradeoff because that's a good deal anyway.

Anyway onto other things...

Sheriff - I'd totally buy a terminal Silver one-shot curser for $4,  I think that would legit be better than Sea Hag. But this is better than that because you can buy more "fuel" for it later. I actually designed a very similar card to this years ago when Guilds first came out (even used embargo tokens for it!) and I found it to be much stronger than I first anticipated.

Farmer - I think this is weaker sifting than Journeyman actually, this is likely to just reveal 2 Coppers and stop where as Journeyman will skip all those Coppers for you. I'm assuming some kind of low/no trashing engine here as that's where you get the most benefit from the sifting. I have no problem with it at $4, but I'd try at at $3 myself.

Cliffside village is a little worse early yeah, but it isn't a mandatory trash so it never becomes dead itself like JD can and also village.

I think Minister is pretty sweet, that one was more a tongue-in-cheek thing about cost reduction being generally broken.

I think Improve just comes down to whether you want it to be a rules changey thing where you get free Estate trashes with $5's or a Seaway type thing. Turning $5's into Provinces might be a little easy with this too mind.

323
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 19, 2018, 11:08:50 pm »
No problem :p

Note that even using Road once per village, it's turning each village into a double-Lab, only once you are done converting them, one of the cards in your hand will be a glorified Moat (terminal Road). The more villages you have (and less Roads), the more the double-Lab scenario is relevant.

Yeah I was being conservative by saying you're building it like a regular Village Smithy (Hunting Grounds?) deck, you can easily do something much better than that. But it's still too good for $4 even if you're taking a Road every time, that was the point I was trying to make.

324
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 19, 2018, 10:58:04 pm »
Your math is off?

Okay, think about it this way, if you play Town and then play your Road twice, that's the same net result as playing a Smithy. You increase your handsize by 2 and have a net -1 Actions.

Increases your handsize by four, so it's equivalent to a Royal Blacksmith. Even ignoring the Road that comes back to your hand in the end, that's still increasing your handsize by three, so equivalent to Hunting Grounds.

Quote
Because Road isn't just turning your Towns into Labs (or Smithies), it's effectively converting any +1 Action you have into +1 Card.

Into TWO cards.

I was ignoring the Moat returning to hand to make it seem less bonkers than it actually is, but that's actually only relevant to the Lab argument. Playing the Road twice is like playing a Hunting Grounds yeah (with a Road returning to hand too!), because the second play isn't decreasing your handsize like playing 2 separate Moats would. It's late over here and I need sleep, forgive this blunder!

325
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: March 19, 2018, 10:35:18 pm »
Town/Road: This seems like a pretty clear $5 to me. Playing a Town and then Road is better than Lab! Sure, you have to draw them together for that to happen, but this can even just be a regular Village or a Smithy if you double play the Road. I think all this extra functionality makes up for the early unreliability. The Road gain isn't even mandatory!

I'm not seeing it. A clunky Lab can absolutely be priced at $4 (See Caravan, Advisor.) The Smithy effect is something you usually don't want, because it means you drew a Road without the corresponding Town. Also, the main reason to not gain the Road is if there's a better terminal draw you want to use. If that's the case, wouldn't it, well, kind of suck if the only village on the board is $5 but is just a Vanillage?

It isn't a clunky Lab though, I can tell you with 100% confidence as a mid-high skill dominion player that I would buy this over Lab about 99% of the time. Like, lining up a Road and Town isn't clunky at all, it's just like any other terminal draw+village engine but much easier because you're getting the terminal draw for free, so you can spend more gains on Villages (that come with free draw!!!).

Okay, think about it this way, if you play Town and then play your Road twice, that's the same net result as playing a Smithy. You increase your handsize by 2 and have a net -1 Actions. So you could build a deck where you buy these instead of Smithies and buy whatever other village is there, just like building a regular Village+Smithy deck but subbing Town+Roads as Smithies. Now you have twice as many Villages in your deck compared to one using Smithies because Town+Road is like a "deconstructed" Smithy, so you're much more likely to find a village in your opening 5 cards and so you're much less likely to have a dud turn. This isn't even considering all the extra utility the Town+Road combination has, like just playing the Road once or playing the same Road 3 or even more times. Because Road isn't just turning your Towns into Labs (or Smithies), it's effectively converting any +1 Action you have into +1 Card. And we haven't yet even considered that the road gain isn't mandatory, so you have the option of using Town as a vanilla village too, which sure by itself would be lacklustre for $5 but that's just another option you have, it's pure upside. This is barely even scratching the surface of how flexible this card is, it has all sorts of interactions with other cards and such. It's actually better than what I've described anyway because that Road is always returning to your hand, so in combination with a Warehouse it's effectively giving you a free +1 Card, even if you don't play it again, there are countless things like that. If you still aren't convinced by this wall I can continue talking about this, there's plenty more to say.

tl;dr I'm right, fight me.

Back in the days, I was arguing that Road, by itself, should cost at least 5$ :p

That seems more reasonable to me, but $5 or $6 in the current form would be okay.

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