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551

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $6+ Cards (Top Half)

« on: February 22, 2019, 06:34:50 pm »

Updated to gained or trashed. The point is exactly the same. It's a question of how easy it is to get the card. If Fortune weren't a split pile, you could get it any time you have to spend. Because it is a split pile, you both need to spend, and you need other stuff to have happened this game.

This has the effect of making it so that you can't get it as early as you normally could. Cards as a whole are more powerful the earlier you get them, so anything that makes it so that you can't get it as early affects the card's power level. If a card said "you can't buy this unless you have shuffled this game", it would be weaker than if it didn't say that. Fortune basically says that, because even if it cost instead of , you wouldn't be able to buy it in your opening.

In the same way, I would expect that the fact that buying a Gladiator makes it easier for your opponent to buy a Fortune should be a consideration when looking at Gladiator's power level.

It isn't a question of "how much Fortune's powerlevel is affected by the fact that you can't buy it in the early game" (because that actually matters), it's a question of "how much Fortune's powerlevel is affected by the fact that half of the time when it's technically in the kingdom, it isn't really in the kingdom at all".

The point, though, is that you have (some amount of) control over whether or not it's technically in the kingdom, which adds to the price of getting it in a meaningful way.

552

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: February 22, 2019, 06:17:25 pm »

Signet Ring by Commodore Chuckles
King's Court is one of my all-time favorite Dominion cards (when I have it, of course .) I also love Hinterlands, which I think this would strangely fit in with very well because of its on-gain effect. Even though Appeal does it too, an on-gain Throne-Room variant has somehow never even crossed my mind, and this implements it gloriously.

I'd like it a lot more if it top-decked the card to marry the top and bottom halves.

The idea was to mimic the mechanics of Ghost (one of my favorite cards). If your draw pile is empty, it triggers a shuffle and then plays an Action card that was in your discard pile (could be one you discarded for the +$3, or one you bought before buying the Signet Ring).

Anyway, thank you Gubump! I'm glad you liked my card!

553

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Bottom Half)

« on: February 21, 2019, 10:02:00 pm »

Even when Fortune Teller hits something, it is weaker than the -Card token, because you would draw into this junk anyways at some point. So the attack of FT is not really topdecking the junk but removing the non-junk cards before it.

Not if it causes a shuffle first.

Shuffling doesn't really matter for that purpose. It means that also your cards in hand miss the shuffle - maybe you would have even triggered that shuffle on your turn anyways.

Maybe you would have triggered the shuffle, or maybe you wouldn't. The point is that saying that it's just making you draw junk sooner than you would have isn't entirely correct - sometimes it also makes you see junk more frequently than you would have otherwise.

That's also true in the "sooner" argument. You shuffle earlie, when you discard non-junkl. So yes, you do draw junk more frequently. My point was not that the attack doesn't do anything, but that it's significantly weaker than the -Card token.

Okay, so we're talking about the same thing. In my opinion you worded it poorly in the OP, implying something a bit weaker than what is actually happening.

554

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $6+ Cards (Top Half)

« on: February 21, 2019, 09:58:10 pm »

I don't think that not being available is a downside you should consider in ranking the cards. If there was a kingdom card that was rigged to be randomized into the kingdom only half as often as the other cards, that shouldn't make a difference, and this is the same thing.

I would argue that the hoops you have to jump through to get Fortune are a part of its price, and so should be considered. It's like how Grand Market is considered to cost more than $6 because of the buy restriction.

555

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Bottom Half)

« on: February 21, 2019, 06:26:02 pm »

Even when Fortune Teller hits something, it is weaker than the -Card token, because you would draw into this junk anyways at some point. So the attack of FT is not really topdecking the junk but removing the non-junk cards before it.

Not if it causes a shuffle first.

Shuffling doesn't really matter for that purpose. It means that also your cards in hand miss the shuffle - maybe you would have even triggered that shuffle on your turn anyways.

Maybe you would have triggered the shuffle, or maybe you wouldn't. The point is that saying that it's just making you draw junk sooner than you would have isn't entirely correct - sometimes it also makes you see junk more frequently than you would have otherwise.

556

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $6+ Cards (Top Half)

« on: February 21, 2019, 06:20:08 pm »

Hmmmm, this turned out pretty similar to the way I voted. My main beef would be that Inheritance is overrated.

557

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: List Orders list

« on: February 21, 2019, 06:11:34 pm »

I don't know why posting them in a random order wasn't at the very bottom. It's too luck-dependent to be useful for anything.

558

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $6+ Cards

« on: February 21, 2019, 05:58:45 pm »

Don't know why Expand would be going up. Ridiculously expensive, poor at getting rid of 0s, not much better than Remodel at gaining Provinces, no better at milling at all.

It's the best Remodel variant at getting rid of 0's, by a mile.

Wait, what about Upgrade?

Junk Dealer beats Upgrade there.

Junk Dealer isn't a Remodel variant. Also, being the best Remodel variant at getting rid of 0s doesn't necessarily mean it's actually good at getting rid of 0s compared to other trashers (although Upgrade actually is good at it... and Remake).

559

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $6+ Cards

« on: February 20, 2019, 08:05:17 pm »

Don't know why Expand would be going up. Ridiculously expensive, poor at getting rid of 0s, not much better than Remodel at gaining Provinces, no better at milling at all.

Bank is a tad underrated. When it's good, it's very good.

560

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominon Card Lists 2018 Edition: Knights

« on: February 20, 2019, 06:28:59 pm »

I was referring to how using handsize attacks against engines hurts less because an engine can often still draw your whole deck from just 3 cards. The Knights games I've played have usually been slogs or just plain chaos, which makes handsize attacks much more brutal.

561

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Bottom Half)

« on: February 20, 2019, 06:08:25 pm »

Even when Fortune Teller hits something, it is weaker than the -Card token, because you would draw into this junk anyways at some point. So the attack of FT is not really topdecking the junk but removing the non-junk cards before it.

Not if it causes a shuffle first.

562

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominon Card Lists 2018 Edition: Knights

« on: February 20, 2019, 06:05:13 pm »

I'm surprised Sir Michael is so low, I had him at #1. I know that the prevalence of engines has made handsize attacks less valued, but, well, Michael's trashing makes it hard to build an engine in the first place.

563

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: February 20, 2019, 05:54:26 pm »

I've tweaked my entry a bit. I gave it a big buff and upped the price.

564

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $5 Cards

« on: February 19, 2019, 06:51:28 pm »

And so is a Hunting Grounds that trashes a Copper, for what it's worth.

How do you get that from any of the cards mentioned?

He is reminding people that he likes Pooka.

Easy to see why, a Hunting Grounds that trashes a Copper is great, especially when it doesn't whiff when drawn with three Estates and a stubborn Heirloom.

The thing is, Pooka isn't actually a Hunting Grounds that trashes a Copper. It's a Confusion that becomes a Hunting Grounds only if you first trash a Copper. Trashing after you draw makes a huge difference. And it's one of the main reasons Recruiter and Masquerade are good while Pooka isn't.

565

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: February 18, 2019, 09:12:40 pm »

566

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $5 Cards

« on: February 18, 2019, 06:43:29 pm »

Well, the lists weren't ever really super useful for anyone. They are fun, that's the main point.

I disagree that they're not super useful. I have Qvist rankings open in the next tab when I play. If I'm split between buys or strategies, I check the Qvist rankings of each card to decide. Over time I memorize the community consensus and stop looking at the rankings so much, but that wouldn't be possible without the rankings.

Also I use them as a litmus test that the way I'm evaluating cards is correct. It happened very often that I thought a card wasn't strong, but Qvist rankings said it was. This forces me to think about what aspects of the card I'm undervaluing.

This doesn't seem like a good way to make decisions. It's better to gain cards based on what roles they fill and how they interact with each other. For the rankings to really be useful for in-game decisions, you'd have to encounter a choice between two cards that cost the same and perform the same basic function, a relatively (and increasingly) rare occurrence. And even then, the best choice is often because one card has a subtle interaction with another card in the kingdom that the competing card lacks, not because it happens to be higher in the rankings.

567

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $5 Cards

« on: February 17, 2019, 08:42:00 pm »

Pizza is most likely underrated.

Isn't Pizza always underrated?

568

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $5 Cards

« on: February 17, 2019, 01:51:19 pm »

Isn't the fact that you can't play other terminals proof of how bad it is?

TIL a cheaper Hunting Grounds with an extra benefit added on top is bad.

The trashing isn't necessarily a benefit. With Pooka you often have to choose between:

1. Getting it early, thus drawing all your terminals dead and running out of fuel when your engine is still in high gear
2. Getting it later on, thus forcing yourself to keep junk in your deck but then making it difficult to connect with the junk when you're actually using it.

569

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $5 Cards

« on: February 17, 2019, 01:39:47 pm »

Merchant Guild continues to be absurdly undervalued. It snowballs like few other cards in the game.

Scholar is absolutely better than Library because of the discarding, but not much better.

I'll say this for Baker: It causes far more surprise noob victories than any other card in the game.

The trick to Pooka is accepting that you don’t get to play other terminals for a couple of turns after you buy it early on, which makes its +4 cards less accelerating than it might seem.

Isn't the fact that you can't play other terminals proof of how bad it is?

As you can see, it’s fun to pretend that Pooka is good.

My thoughts exactly.

Also, Sculptor really should be in the bottom third. The Villager-gaining isn't that great as you need to gain a deck-clogging Silver and Sculptor itself takes an action to play. Definitely worse than Cobbler.

570

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: February 16, 2019, 11:23:38 pm »

It needs a better peripheral benefit than a delayed Ruined Village though; as it is now it's too weak.

I think it's a delayed Necropolis, but yes, it is weak.  I wanted there to be something, but for a $4 card that could net you 8VP, it had to be something weak.

I suppose it does give it a Necropolis-like effect at the start of your turn, but overall it's a delayed Ruined Village, because it uses up an action this turn and then gives it back to you next turn.

571

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $4 Cards (Top Half)

« on: February 16, 2019, 11:05:30 pm »

What I disagreed most with:

Ironworks (37 vs my 64): I don't see why this is considered better than Devil's Workshop. Devil's Workshop has a wider range of utility and can't be drawn dead.

Salvager (36 vs my 57): Salvager just isn't that good. Awful at trashing 0s, okay but worse than Remodel at tfb.

Mission (35 vs my 77): I just don't get this thing. Talking about all the clever tricks you can do with the extra turn ignores the fact that it costs a precious $4 to get it.

Conspirator (29 vs my 5): It's loony how underrated this is. It's the most important engine piece in nearly every board I've played.

Mountain Village (26 vs my 49): Not impressed with this. Not any better than Vanillage if your discard is empty... which happens a lot if you have an engine, the main thing Villages enable. Oops. Also, SUCKS if you just discarded some junk.

Blessed Village (25 vs my 44): Not impressed with this either. It has the same problem as Bard in that the randomness of the Boons makes it virtually impossible to build a real strategy around them.

Priest (21 vs my 55): I've yet to succeed at building those super duper Priest engines everyone's talking about. You need so many other things in place: a good supply of things to trash, good Village support, good draw, +Buy...

Silk Merchant (18 vs my 66): Really? It's that good?

Worker's Village (13 vs my 33): Clearly others value the +Buy on this more than I do. Not sure what else to say about this.

I also had Temple, Marauder and Young Witch a lot higher than this list, but I probably did overrate those.

I agree with the fall of Procession, Fortress, Sacrifice and Sauna, as well as the rise of Exorcist and Envoy.

572

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Bottom Half)

« on: February 16, 2019, 10:04:13 pm »

55: Secret Cave (34) - Wow was this card underrated.  Disregarding Magic Lamp for now, Secret Cave has a more powerful effect than Oasis.  Secret Cave can be used to spike $6+ early, works well with draw-to-X, and helps spike $8 in junked up decks.  But Secret Cave is especially strong because of how it helps activate Magic Lamp.  Activating Magic Lamp is something you should do ASAP in almost every game.  Secret Cave is a perfect card to be one of your uniques: cheap, cantrip, duration.  Secret Cave is gained by the winner in a whopping 81% of the time; it's a travesty to be rated so low.

Yes. The fact that the discarding is optional on Secret Cave is enough on its own to make it better than Oasis.

573

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: February 16, 2019, 01:02:38 pm »

Stock Option
Treasure - Reaction - $4
Worth $1
During the Buy phase of the player to your left, you may trash this from your hand for an amount of Coffers equal to half of their $, rounded down.
When you gain this, the player to your left gets +1 Coffers.

574

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread

« on: February 16, 2019, 12:50:06 pm »

Eyre
Cost: $4
Types: Action, Duration, Victory

You may set aside a Victory card from your hand under this card.  At the start of your next turn, +1 Action, and discard all cards under this card.
-
At the end of the game, if this was in play, add up the worth of all the cards that were under this card. This is worth that amount.

It's Throne Room, but for Victory cards!  It only lasts one turn, so you have to time it well; it can be used to tip yourself over the edge, or to stop your opponent from ending the game.  If you don't, well, at least you get your Action back so you can play one again next turn.  I suppose on a board with no Villages, you might even buy it for that, but probably not.

It counts all the cards under itself in case you use Throne Room on it.  I was going to specify that it had to be a non-Eyre card, but since that Eyre wouldn't have any cards under it, you'd just end up doubling nothing, which... sure, go right ahead.

(I've just seen that "victory" should be capitalised.  I may go back and fix it at some point.)

I've been considering the idea of a Throne Room for Victory cards as well. The problem in the context of this contest though is that it doesn't strictly count as a Throne Room variant because it's not playing another card. Still, props for coming up with a way to make this work; this is better than the idea I had. It needs a better peripheral benefit than a delayed Ruined Village though; as it is now it's too weak.

And now I'm considering the parameters of this contest some more. Do the entries have to play a card more than once, or are cards like Vassal and Golem also allowed?

575

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $4 Cards (Bottom Half)

« on: February 16, 2019, 12:35:36 pm »

Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low.  In the early game, it's better than Militia.

I'd say it's about on par with it. They both usually take $1 away from you in the beginning.

It strikes me that Militia kills variance more than Cutpurse does?

Cutpurse takes $1 away from almost any early hand; Militia takes nothing from bad hands but $2 from good ones.

Doesn't that mean Militia's going to hurt more when people are trying to make their first $5 purchase?

Yes, it hurts a bit more in that situation on average because it can cut you down to $3 instead of $4. But that difference is pretty small compared to the nastiness both of them cause by taking away your first $5.