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176

Rules Questions / Re: Infinite Tunnel reveals on a Possession turn

« on: June 27, 2018, 02:42:53 pm »

Please also note that the Secret History of Diplomat implies that discarding a card breaks the cycle:

The bottom originally gave a Silver when you gained or trashed a card. You had to discard it, so you couldn't gain the pile instantly (a once-per-turn approach was another option).

Of course there is danger in taking an unpublished version of a card's word for it.

177

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 27, 2018, 02:41:19 pm »

Okay, so I think the question I have to posit is this:

What about Diplomat?
If I currently have a hand with 10 cards in it (because reasons -- you can call me the Hound Mastaaa!) and someone attacks me, can I actually reveal the same Diplomat like, 5 times?

Also as per Donald's Secret History of Diplomat:

The bottom originally gave a Silver when you gained or trashed a card. You had to discard it, so you couldn't gain the pile instantly (a once-per-turn approach was another option).

This implies that discarding the card breaks the cycle.

178

Rules Questions / Re: Infinite Tunnel reveals on a Possession turn

« on: June 27, 2018, 02:31:57 pm »

Reveal isn't a mandatory part of the Reaction rules either; at least not as a rule clause on the card.

Faithful Hound doesn't need to be revealed; probably because set aside cards are revealed?
Market Square also doesn't have reveal in its rule, even though its bottom half is most definitely a Tunnel variation; presumably, this is because Tunnel's trigger and its effect are so close to each other; in essence Tunnel could read "when you discard this, if it is not your Clean-up, you may discard this to gain a Gold instead" but that's not awkward at all.

179

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 27, 2018, 01:08:15 pm »

I started a discussion on Tunnel's Reaction here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18751.msg760375#msg760375
Might be interesting, although tangential.

Asper, thanks for championing this. I'm going to try contribute what I can, because I think the result of that discussion will be the final word on Agora and Token.

180

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 27, 2018, 09:11:47 am »

I guess a wording that might work with both Agora and Token is "If you would discard this, you may [reveal it from your hand for +$1][reveal it from your to gain a Silver to your hand] instead. If you do, put this into your discard pile."

Wordy as heck.

Other way around (for Agora) would be "exchange this for a Silver, putting it in your hand. If you do, gain an Agora." but that's just crazy talk.

181

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 26, 2018, 06:47:41 pm »

I'm not going to get to the new wording renders tonight, so instead I will give read-only access to the major design doc. The tab you care about is called "Cheatsheet."

No, I'm not making Dominion: Invention any time soon. Or ever. I swear. Please, make this stop.

Edit: I'm not rebuilding Adventures, either. Seriously, if you look in other tabs other than Cheatsheet there's a good chance that you will see dark things in the recesses of my mind that scare me. And also some of the lifetimes of these cards that are downright hilarious.

182

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 26, 2018, 05:40:48 pm »

Hey, LastFootnote, I updated the OP with a link to the imgur album.

Of course, it would help if I did all of the updates that need to be done based on the feedback I've received via reddit.
Edit: I will endeavor to fix this after work. I'll let you know when the latest texts are done.

183

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 26, 2018, 04:45:36 pm »

I changed Agora to read "When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may first reveal it from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand."
In my head it means when the reaction is triggered, you reveal the Agora from your hand and then discard it, which means that the next trigger for it, it's totally in the wrong place to gain you a Silver. Is this true?

No. In your new wording you could arguably gain infinite Silvers even if they went to your discard pile. You want to discard the card, so you reveal it. Now you want to discard the card, so you reveal it. The point is that you need to make sure that by resolving the reaction, it becomes either impossible or pointless to reveal it again.

Kudasai provided a great solution. The card will lose track of itself, and no player will ever have to think about it.

You're right. The issue is Token, which has the same problem, but is +$1 instead of gain a silver, so it's even worse! Technically based on the "reveal as many times as you want if it isn't covered" logic, Token is "if you discard this, get infinite money". Kudasai's solution doesn't work in that case.

I'd like to have the two have similar wordings if I can figure out how to word it.

Edit: how does Caravan Guard and Trader avoid this?

184

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 26, 2018, 03:18:47 pm »

Wow, this thread has exploded during my sick time away!

Couple of thoughts: First off as I near completion I am blown away by all of the support. At some point I have to "launch into space" and print physicals and say the set is done. Catching issues before that point is great. The worst thing (which is going to be inevitable) will be having a card that I can't play with because of something I missed. I'd like that to happen with as few cards as possible. Even if the set contains Boulder Traps

I changed Agora to read "When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may first reveal it from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand."
In my head it means when the reaction is triggered, you reveal the Agora from your hand and then discard it, which means that the next trigger for it, it's totally in the wrong place to gain you a Silver. Is this true?

Token is supposed to be a Treasure-Reaction. Somehow I didn't render it as such. Oh well, stay tuned to the album because I just received the updated art from Jan Boruta; I'll render it as a Treasure-Reaction this time.

Finally, Holunder9, I'm going to get all pointlessly semantic on you and say "Mission House" is not strictly better than Lost City because the meaning of the phrase strictly better than is that if you draw a Venn diagram of every balance benefit that Lost City offers and every benefit Mission House offers, Mission House totally eclipses Lost City. This simply isn't true. Lost City costs $5 and starts its lifetime as +2 Cards +2 Actions. Mission House costs $5 and starts out its life as some weird love child of Moat and Monument. So the diagrams overlap a lot but Lost City has things going for it that Mission House doesn't. Now, of course in a game with good VP generation -- say, one with positive Landmarks, or with Dig, Mission House does become strictly better than Lost City in a real hurry.

Besides that totally pointless semantics thing, again I really appreciate the feedback. Right now, I am pretty okay with the relative balance of MH vs LC. The question is whether LC is OP, I've seen some threads implying this. It's not a good idea to balance against an OP card if you can help it.

185

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 22, 2018, 11:36:35 am »

I'm currently trying to test something like:

Mendicant $4.
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a copper to your hand.
You may return an Estate to the supply for +1 VP. If you don't, gain an Estate to your hand.

I'm not sure how stubborn I should be about the copper gain. However now it is like a cantrip baron of sorts.
I have no idea what the power level of the card is now.


Edit: Also, Mendicant seems to have swallowed up the Stronghold discussion. What did you all think of the Scavenger-like Stronghold I posted earlier?

186

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 21, 2018, 11:14:04 am »

Mendicant is a classic example of a bottom up design making your head hurt. It's trying to work with Lore, not with Strategies! The problem with having bought art as well is, you can't change the card away from its lore too much, or else you have to buy more art!

In practice it's really only good in a totally slogging situation, when there's a lot of junk flying around already. The idea is that Mendicant is a holy man, like a friar or something. He begs (coppers) and if you reject worldly wealth (Treasures that are not copper) you will eventually be rewarded with heavenly rewards (VP.)

Except it turned out that he was actually OP if he gave out VP tokens, so I changed it to Estates. You want a bunch of Mendicants in a later turn, and then you get the Estates.

Kudasai's solution is pretty good, actually. I've also tampered with ideas like "In games using this, Estates are worth +1VP if you have more than 15 Coppers." but the test burden is hard.

187

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 20, 2018, 10:28:43 am »

On the subject on Mendicant, I recently learned that I've been playing Dominion wrong all along in respect to Estates piles. I've always played with the whole stack of Estates, but it turns out that you only play with 8 extra Estates or 12 extra Estates, depending on number of players. So this makes Mendicant a lot weaker, since you can't go full Mendicant mode and run nothing but Mendicant turns for like 3 turns for many points. I may need to consider buffing this guy somehow. I think cantripping into Duchies is too strong though.

188

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 18, 2018, 12:23:19 pm »

Actually (despite vowing that I wasn't going to make design changes to any cards!) I've been trying a less complex version of Stronghold.

It seems balanced well at $5, but someone please point out where it's broken as hell:

Stronghold - Action-Reaction $5
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile, trash a card from it, and put a card from it into your hand.
-
When you would trash a card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to instead discard the card.

189

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 14, 2018, 12:31:55 pm »

Asper, I really appreciate your thoughts, especially Agora and Graveyard. I'll make sure Graveyards can't gain Graveyards from the trash and I'm going to get a migraine thinking about what to do to make sure Agora doesn't gain unlimited silvers to your hand.

I've done stupid Riches-rush before, it usually fizzles out before you win, although if you are the only one buying Riches you can get 5 Provinces with them if they all align nicely.

Discarding a Relic isn't revealing a Treasure. You would discard Relic, rather than reveal that you can't. I'll make a note to mention that in the rulebook.

I may massage Sarcophagus a bit to make it worded better. Its wording is a relic from when it was a Procession+Throne Room and might be better said.
Edit: I actually already have, just not uploaded it: "Gain an Action card costing up to $2 less than this and play it. When it leaves play, trash it."

190

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: June 11, 2018, 10:14:17 am »

Looks like I've been breaking images by changing them, go figure. People keep asking me to make changes.

Here's a link to the final album. All art is final other than the Token, which is getting a bit of a facelift.

191

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Creating new cards for alchemy 8 to be exact.

« on: May 28, 2018, 02:50:22 pm »

Mortar and pestle


Gain a copper and silver to your hand

At the start of your next turn gain an
Action costing up to 3💵 with or
Without⚗️ In its cost to your hand.
Cost 5 Action-Duration

So on your next turn after playing this you could not only gain a secret market but play it right then and there. And since there’s no potion in its cost you can skip buying a potion. However if you want golem, possession, mad scientist, and wine cellar you will still need to buy a potion for those. And at least one of those are very sought after. And expect mad scientist to be both powerful and insane.

Rules quibble:
"Costing up to $3P" covers both $3 and $3P, since $3 costs P less than $3P.

192

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Card Image Generator v1.3

« on: May 25, 2018, 09:38:57 am »

Hi Violet! Is there a way to make italicized text with the tool that I'm not aware of yet? For Setup rules?

Thank you for all that you've done for this community and for me by making and maintaining this tool. I think I would have been totally demoralized by my lack of card creating ability by now if it were not for you.

193

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 24, 2018, 10:29:27 am »

With boulder trap, the issue becomes formatting; it theory it should be something like

Boulder Trap - Trap - $3
-1VP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you trash this, each other player gains a Curse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain a card from the top of a Supply pile, if this is the next card, gain it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Shuffle one Boulder Trap into each Kingdom pile.

That gets a bit crazy. But I will definitely entertain any feedback on how to avoid having three horizontal lines on the card.

I don't think you need to do this. If there are other Traps, printing all of the Trap rules on every card definitely seems like overkill. Also, the whole point of the weird border color is to tell people that they need to crack open the rulebook instead of wasting space on every card. It's not like Night Cards all say, "You can only play this after the Buy phase."

^^This. In reality, I'll be distributing a rulebook.

194

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 22, 2018, 04:25:53 pm »

With boulder trap, the issue becomes formatting; it theory it should be something like

Boulder Trap - Trap - $3
-1VP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you trash this, each other player gains a Curse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain a card from the top of a Supply pile, if this is the next card, gain it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Setup: Shuffle one Boulder Trap into each Kingdom pile.

That gets a bit crazy. But I will definitely entertain any feedback on how to avoid having three horizontal lines on the card.

195

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 22, 2018, 03:41:14 pm »

Sorry, everyone, I've been late in posting the new art reveals:

This is a rules update to prevent the first-come-then-win exploitation of this card.

196

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 19, 2018, 06:21:28 pm »

Hi guys! Thanks again for the feedback and attention!

Fragasnap, while I'm unlikely to change the Sarcophagus much more than I already have (because of testing burden) I really, really like your idea, although it would lead to the game ending fast as well (4 player game? piles only have 6 cards!) so I'd probably do it as 2 of each action in the trash.

ClouduHieh, I do really like the idea of Inspectors putting cards on top of the deck. I'll try it out.

On other news, I am also trying out a version of Aquifer that replaces the reaction with just being able to choose to gain an Aquifer, and maybe costs $4.

197

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 17, 2018, 06:13:56 pm »

GendoIkari, thanks so much for your replies. Your insights and experience are super helpful.

I have a third option, which could be to say "when it [the played card] leaves play, trash it." This would fix the duration issue but I'd have to look at all the other odd cards to see what it would do with them.

Update: I've decided to just go with the official rules; and not try to tamper with it. If I chose "when it leaves play, trash it," then the card would be confusing in cases of the lose track of rule -- if the card leaves play for a reason other than Sarcophagus, players might interpret "when it leaves play, trash it" as interrupting that and trashing the card (it wouldn't.) Plus then you lose the cool interaction of the card not staying in play, making the card more of a Band of Misfits clone. But the real clincher is Cultist. If Sarcophagus trashes a Cultist during Clean-up, what happens? It's not worth the headache.

198

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 17, 2018, 04:43:32 pm »

Yeah there's definitely official rules. Not just Procession, but Bonfire. Duration cards definitely don't have to do their normal thing next turn. The official rules would also cause Sarcophagus to stay in play until next turn.

Hmm, according to the Procession wiki article:

If you use Procession on a Duration card, Procession will be discarded in the same turn's Clean-up, since the Duration card will no longer be in play.

If I'm understanding this correctly, the Sarcophagused card will be trashed immediately after it is first played (before the 'next turn' is resolved) and Sarcophagus will be discarded. Then the next turn effect will trigger anyhow, but without the card being in play.

I dislike this a fair bit, but it is the official rules.

199

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 17, 2018, 11:07:57 am »

Hmm, I just realized that there is no official ruling on what happens to the effect that occurs on your next turn if you trash a Duration card that is in play.

I would assume that there is a Variants and Fan Cards precedent, though. If so, can someone tell me what it is?

Otherwise I will have to make a ruling, which may very well be that Sarcophagus stays in play until the Duration card is finished, then trashes it.

Edit: Ignore me; Procession has the same quirks.

200

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities

« on: May 17, 2018, 09:33:40 am »

Thanks for the feedback and interest, guys!

After careful consideration, I've decided to give some significant nerfs to Sarcophagus. Sarcophagus will now only play the targeted card once, and will only be able to target cards that cost "up to $2 less than it."

Overall, I realized that this makes Sarcophagus still better than Band of Misfits, a $5 card, as it will trigger on-gain and on-trash events, and retain its own on-buy Curse event. While this makes the Sarcophagus less attractive than when it was an OPAF throne, it's still a lot of power to pack into a mere $1 cost increase vs Band of Misfits.