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7126

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: So.. many.. piles..

« on: August 10, 2012, 01:05:13 pm »

11 Kingdom Cards
+3 Shelters
+5 Ruinses
+7 Basic Cards
+2 Colony/Plat
+1 Potion
+1 Madman
+1 Spoils
+5 Prizes
------------
36 Total


Each fairgrounds is worth 7.

If you buy out the fairgrounds thats 7*8=56. Without black market

You've forgot the "other Madman".

what other madaman?

The other upgrade-y card. 

Now, to get all this, you'd need in your kingdom:
1)Fairgrounds
2)Young Witch
3)Tournament
4)Looter
5)Spoils-er
6)Hermit
7)Other upgrader
8)Potion card

And the wherewithal to get all of those, the two other kingdom cards, the Bane, all 5 prizes, a Spoils, a Madman and the other upgrade in your deck all at the same time as the game ends.  Oh, and keep all your Shelters and at least one Copper, buy an Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Silver, Gold and Platinum.

I think I'll just go BM->Provinces.

7127

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: If the Dark Ages cards were submissions to the mini-set design contest...

« on: August 10, 2012, 12:59:10 pm »

It's probably worth mentioning that Donald probably previewed the most game-defining DA cards.  Certainly all the weird things we knew about (Ruins, Shelters, self-upgrading cards, cards interacting with the trash, cards with on-trash abilities) are accounted for, and then some other weird things as well ($1-cost card, targeted discard, self-perpetuating card).  I recall this being roughly the case with Hinterlands too:  the previewed cards were things like Mandarin, Border Village, and Trader, rather than Cartographer, Oasis, and such.

Which is not to understate how dramatically Dark Ages has obviously already rocked the world of Dominion.  But I doubt the remaining unrevealed cards with average the same degree of distinctiveness as the previewed cards.

Also remember that Haggler, Jack of all Trades, Silk Road and Scheme were NOT previewed.

7128

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 12:22:25 pm »

Anyone have a favorite dark ages card?

Hermit.

Thought it's also fun to say PILLAGE A VILLAGE! *shwack*

7129

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 11:25:54 am »

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

Yes.  I'm telling myself it won't be as bad when I'm actually playing, rather than seeing them all right next to each other like that, but I don't think I'm convincing myself.

I don't think I'm getting something about the colors in general.

Shelters appear to be orange, like durations.
Ruins appear to be brown.

But Shelters that are Action-Shelter are white/orange, whereas Ruins that are Action-Ruins are all-brown.

I know Donald has said that coloring is used to alert you when you're holding your hand that you might want to do something (ie reveal a reaction card). Can someone help me out on why Ruined Market shouldn't be brown/white, or Necropolis only orange?

Shelter is a basic type, like Action or Victory.  Ruins is a secondary type, like Reaction or Duration.

7130

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 11:24:22 am »

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

–1 for misinformation.

How is this misinformation?  That's the general rule I follow.  If I don't have anything over $5 in a kingdom, even if it's all Prosperity, I probably won't put in Platinums and Colonies.

7131

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:35:18 am »

I feel a little underwhelmed, though.

Hell, I can leave my Estates, Colonies, Platinum, and Potions at home.

Estates will still be in the game, just not in your starting hand. Don't leave them behind just yet.

And can someone remind me what the Platinum/Colony rule is? I've never played it IRL.

Basically, if you've got lots of $6+ cards, put in Plats and Colonies.

7132

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:12:38 am »

Is anyone else freaking out that Necropolis should be red on the top and not the bottom, to match the other two? Maybe I need to get my OCD checked...

What I'm freaking out about most is that the VP sign for Overgrown Estate is on the RED portion of the card, and not the GREEN.

7133

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:11:46 am »

These cards are definitely going to change the landscape of openings and first shuffles. Double terminals will definitely be more common here. Plus, a 5/2 opening with no Actions on the board will often buy an Estate to trash the Hovel - no more wasted $2 turns on your first turn!

Somehow that still seems like a waste.  Unless you're opening Estate/Baron.

Which seems quite a bad idea with ONE estate in your deck.

Estate/Island, then?  Estate/Remake?  I dunno, I'd rather just pass.

7134

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:10:32 am »

Oh, hey, guys, can we use this to stop all the speculation that ruined village will give +2 actions? K thanks.

So you think +1 action?

Yes, of course.
Edit: The 'of course' is just because of the way Donald said things - I don't think it would be so obvious what those 3 benefits would be if they didn't exactly parallel, for all the different vanilla bonuses in the game. And yeah, it's useless 90% of the time, but you know, he did say some were better than others.

Proud to have given you your 1000th point of respect on this post.  Didn't even realize, until the flash of movement -- the appearance of another digit -- caught my eye when I hit the up-arrow.

You upvoted THAT?

I'm not sure if it's just the higher volume of posters, or just that I'm posting more frequently (or the quality of my posts has increased?  I'm sure WW would disagree), but my respect has jumped about 150 points in just the past week, and I'm still trying to figure out which post is to blame...

7135

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:08:51 am »

These cards are definitely going to change the landscape of openings and first shuffles. Double terminals will definitely be more common here. Plus, a 5/2 opening with no Actions on the board will often buy an Estate to trash the Hovel - no more wasted $2 turns on your first turn!

Somehow that still seems like a waste.  Unless you're opening Estate/Baron.

7136

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 10:05:08 am »

I was thinking an all Dark Ages game would be fun. It's good to see Donald has played it that way too. Is there any other expansion you would play by itself besides base?

All of them?  'cept maybe Alchemy, because only having two non-Potion cards just would not be practical.  Fun, but not practical.

7137

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 09:50:45 am »

If no cards referred to Shelters (something as yet unknown)

Says the man who knows very well if there are. 

7138

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 09:40:58 am »

I was imagining Shelters would at least reference Looters - otherwise, why even have these two card types?  Every other card type is either referenced (Moat reacts to Attacks) or tells you something fundamental about the card.  Durations stay out, Actions are... well... Actions, etc.  What does Looter tell you?  That you should include Ruins?  Well, having Ruins mentioned on the card kinda already does that for you.  And there's really no point in calling these three cards "Shelters" except for the purpose of the rules saying "In this instance, use Shelters."  Dark Ages better have cards that reference Shelters and Looters.  Even if it's just a card that says "When another player plays a Looter, run screaming into the hills," I will be mollified.

7139

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 09:14:31 am »

Baron has gotten shafted so hard.

7140

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 09:05:15 am »

Um?

7141

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Dark Ages Limericks

« on: August 10, 2012, 08:26:58 am »

Last turn I bought just one Rat
But now they're all over the flat
Estates (and Golds, too)
Are all flushed down the loo
My hand: Rats Rats Rats Rats Rats.

7142

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 10, 2012, 08:21:13 am »

BTW, I think I finally have a name for my Dominion-themed cover band: "Reveal A Hand of All Rats"

i.e.  "Just Resign Already"

7143

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: A missed opportunity

« on: August 10, 2012, 08:16:10 am »

All of the current alt VP count things that you own. As soon as you count something external you share out with your opponent. That means anything you do to make it better also makes it better for your opponent. This ends up with as not particularly interesting situation. If you split them evenly it I'd irrelevant how many points they are worth.

EDIT: Furthermore any trash counting card would need to be a trasher lest it be obsolete on some boards my bad

You make a good point.  How about:

Midden:
Action-Victory - $3

Trash a card from your hand.

----

Worth 1 VP for every differently named card in the trash that is not a duplicate of a card in your deck.

7144

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 09, 2012, 11:42:19 pm »

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

I don't think I've seen a single newbie friendly card in this expansion, yet. Okay, I guess Feodum counts, but it's an alt VP card. That would be like me saying that because this set has a Village, it's newbie friendly. Speaking of Villages, I wonder what kind of Village effect we will get. I'm sure Ruined Village won't be the only Village in the set. I'm also wondering what the Curser will be like. My guess is a curser that gives you the choice to give a curse from the trash pile if a curse is in the pile.

Madman?  Squire?  What more do you need?  Something explicitly called a Village?

7145

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: So.. many.. piles..

« on: August 09, 2012, 11:35:08 pm »

And, let's not forget the Guilds pile for when Guilds comes out. 

Ssh!  Focus on the now!

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery - today is a gift!  That is why it is called the present.

7146

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 09, 2012, 11:32:59 pm »

Rats is a card that a newbie sees and thinks "oh cool a cantrip that multiplies and lets me trash" and it is cool..at first..until you have trashed all your bad cards and have a hand full of Rats.

No way.  Newbies think, "Why in the world would I want to trash Coppers?  That's money!  Why would I want to trash Estates?  Those are points!!"

You're right. Most of these cards are not newbie friendly, this expansion is definitely not coming out when I teach new players.

Maybe Sage, if any.  Poor House or Feodum would be stretching it.

7147

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 09, 2012, 11:24:05 pm »

is there some kind of scout joke im not aware of?

Scout is one of the most powerful cards in the game.  Players who know this tend to make jokes about how it is mediocre at best; some even suggest that it is terrible!  It's hilarious when newbies take it to heart, and later get crushed by a giant Scout mega-turn engine that buys out Provinces on turn 9.

Yes, I bought the last Province using the other four Provinces Scout made me draw.  (Because I have Secret Chamber)

Actually, now that I've said that, I'm thinking Donald X has probably made a card that does something like that (without doing the Secret Chamber thing)...

7148

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #3: Squire, Hermit, Madman

« on: August 09, 2012, 10:23:35 pm »

I really hope that there's another card that turns into Madman. Ruins are cool because 3 different cards hand them out, spoils are cool because 3 different cards can get you them. But the idea that there's a stack of cards just for one other stack of cards to turn into seems like a wasted opportunity.

Fingers crossed you can make other cards go mad

I wouldn't get your hopes up. I think Donald would have mentioned if that were the case. That being said, I like the fact that Madman can only be obtained through one other card. I was hoping that there were going to be more than two cards like that. But Spoils has definitely mollified me. It's a good compromise.

I am hoping that the final non-kingdom card isn't a one-shot, but I'll be perfectly happy if it is.

This still leaves 21 Kingdom cards with mechanics that we have absolutely no inkling of.

7149

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: If the Dark Ages cards were submissions to the mini-set design contest...

« on: August 09, 2012, 10:19:58 pm »

This is not an expansion for new players.  This is an expansion full of tricky cards that will trip you up and sometimes outright destroy you (see: Rats) if you don't know what you're doing, but which will probably rule the game if you know how to play them correctly.  I've always loved obscene engines, and this set is where that love of obscenity translates into a viable strategy.

So yes, this involves breaking most of the rules that the community has come up with for fan cards.  Now notice that if Donald X ever made comments on these rules, it was usually to say "It's very difficult to make a balanced version of this" and never "You should never make a card like this."  Perhaps one reason why he discouraged such cards (if that's what he was going for) was so that we'd all have our socks blown off when we finally got Dark Ages.

7150

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 09, 2012, 08:36:21 pm »

If you could ever sustain a pillage attack (such as with a +buys draw engine), you will completely shut down most decks i think. What type of deck could survive it? Maybe a wharf engine?

Well, probably not a wharf engine, because you only usually get a couple of wharfs due to the terminal nature of the card itself.  I think that any engine which results in a very high action density would be ok: if I have two villages, two smithys and (say) a copper in my hand, I still have a chance at a big turn no matter what card you make me drop.  Minion decks would be another example: as long as I have sufficient density to draw 2 minions in my initial 5-card hand, I'll be ok.

I think this attack could lead to a bit of AP, though: if I have two alchemists and a potion in hand, what do you make me discard?  One of the alchemists or the potion?

Double-Tactician would be likely to survive even constant Pillaging relatively unscathed.  I could imagine overbought, dense stacks of Scrying Pool or Hunting Party doing the job too.  Lab-style engines are probably going to have a far easier time of it than +Action/+Card-style engines in general; if one card gives you both draw and +1 Action, then two of them in hand means you won't necessarily be sunk by Pillage.


...Oh, huh.  You know what engine card gives you +Action and can draw lots of cards?  That's right, Scout.  Scout is gonna be boss against Pillage.

Too bad Dark Ages doesn't have any Action/Victory cards.