16401
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia IV: Within These Estate Walls (SIGN-UPS NOW OPEN)
« on: June 02, 2012, 02:31:50 pm »
By the way, these flavor paragraphs were awesomely well done. Hats off to you, Volt.
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16402
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 02, 2012, 02:23:11 am »A last thought I had Galz. Say volt and yourself hadn't killed me before jotheonah switched to robz. Would you have hammered robz or waited to see what volt did.
Also if anyone's curious the reason I didn't counterclaim aside from not being a role was that i saw it making me a night kill and then showing up as a liar on day 4 which I don't think would have helped as it would have incriminated g (who I thought was town) and j (who I also thought was town. Just less so)
Well, yes you shouldn't have counter-claimed, because you were a townie. I thought you might counter-claim because you were the only person who could possibly have a role. Which is why I came out with it before you could.
16403
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« on: June 02, 2012, 01:57:06 am »
Hello all. Well, I re-read the first half of this stuff. Man there are a lot of posts, and a lot of silly, useless posts. Moving on, here is everyone ranked from non-suspicon to suspicion:
Morgrim: He says crazy things, but he isn't behaving much differently from MII. To the extent he IS behaving differently, I think he is legitimately trying not to get lynched first round again. He's really bad at that... but he's not the mafia (maybe).
Yuma: I think the mafia would not leave that lonely little vote on Morgrim, knowing it's unlikely to be joined by any other votes. He doesn't seem to be paying the kind of attention to the game that I would expect from a mafia. He also has a blessed dearth of silly posts.
Def: To be fair, Def and Yuma have said so little that it's a bit unfair to largely acquit them. But my sense is the mafia would have chimed in more. If this turns out to be untrue, and they are mafia, we will have to make a concerted effort to start really piling on the less prolific talkers in early rounds. But for now, I find them both unsuspicious.
Galzria: He makes it very hard to have an opinion of him because he-just-posts-so-much. So much info, and so much silliness. And emoticons! I hate when they are not used sparingly. Oh well. Since he and I were both mafia in MII, I am having a hard time evaluating him in this new context, but he seems harmless--and also helpful--so far.
O: The biggest change for me when I went back over the thread is that now I see O as mostly innocent. I don't agree with everything he did, but his short, snarky responses don't read like mafia to me. The Jester thing was clearly a joke. The random generator was needling. The only troubling thing was his comment about the self-lynch, but we might have all been reading too much into that. He might just be the town bad boy.
Voltgloss: He essentially sounds identical to Mafia II, where he was not mafia. He has a highly analytical, sophisticated, reluctantly accusatory but accusatory nonetheless style, and he really hasn't deviated from it at all this game. I have no specific suspicion of him, though I am wary of being fooled by it (since it would be easy for him to act the exact same way and expect my faith in him).
eHalycon: He is playing a wise first round. Somewhat guarded, but doesn't avoid the subjects. I'm not alarmed by him right now but he is probably someone who could rapidly move up my suspicions depending on how he behaves henceforth. I could see the mafia doing what he's been doing--really sort of lurking but saying short concrete things now and then. But that's just a feeling.
Jotheonah: Well, he's been very purposeful this first round. I like that, but it sort of sticks out at the moment, actually. Not a lot, but Galzria seems pretty suspicious of him.
Captain Frisk: He said something way early about doing research on whether the town was likely to lynch successfully on day 1. That's nice, but you know that's kind of a good thing for the mafia to say to start building good faith. He's also made sure to get a vote out there, on me.
Michaeljb: Well, he had a LOT of silly posts early on. Silly posts make me suspicious when they come from new players, because I am thinking that a new mafia would want to be involved in the conversation a reasonable amount, but would be afraid of saying anything. So he would see a lot of silly posts mix with more substance. Michaeljb, and the top 2 people, have been repeat offenders on this. Michaeljb had some defensive moments mid-late through the day, also.
Dsell and Eevee: Really, these are the two people who stick out to me as mafia. Dsell has been waging a pretty relentless crusade against me. I won't go so far as to say it's baseless, but it's weird. I think it's weird, at least. I try to take a slightly less active role on Day 1 and I find myself being totally attacked by this guy. And of course the biggest thing with him is pre-emptively defending himself in case of a mislynch. Everybody remember that? Also, he was already worried about me doing a false roleclaim. Really, he has a Robz888 focus and as Robz888 I don't get it. He's very misguided or he's mafia.
Eevee hopped right on that bandwagon, and he did so after I had said that I would be posting a big accusations post (where I also asked to hold off on voting for me until after I'd made it), and then he voted for me, before I get the post up. I thought he might have suspected I was going to put him at the top here and wanted to get his vote out of the way before he did. Remember also that I suspect the mafia might want to vote earlier, rather than later. If you vote early, you CAN switch if you need to, but otherwise you are in good shape not to look bandwagon-y or hammering or whatnot. So it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the early voters as mafia. (Really, though, it wouldn't surprise me to see anybody as mafia, not even Morgrim.) Also, Eevee really hit the sweet spot with some silly posts, some golly-gee I'm new to this gosh stuff, and some substance. And man, right onto the Robz bandwagon!
So, I would vote for Dsell or Eevee. Really, I suspect them about the same. Since there is already a vote for Eevee, I shall vote for him. If other players have strong opinions why Dsell is suspicious but Eevee is not, I am open to re-considering. Really, I'm open to re-considering on anyone (even Morgrim, though probably not). But that deadline really is looming more than I expected, so here's this for now:
VOTE: EEVEE
Morgrim: He says crazy things, but he isn't behaving much differently from MII. To the extent he IS behaving differently, I think he is legitimately trying not to get lynched first round again. He's really bad at that... but he's not the mafia (maybe).
Yuma: I think the mafia would not leave that lonely little vote on Morgrim, knowing it's unlikely to be joined by any other votes. He doesn't seem to be paying the kind of attention to the game that I would expect from a mafia. He also has a blessed dearth of silly posts.
Def: To be fair, Def and Yuma have said so little that it's a bit unfair to largely acquit them. But my sense is the mafia would have chimed in more. If this turns out to be untrue, and they are mafia, we will have to make a concerted effort to start really piling on the less prolific talkers in early rounds. But for now, I find them both unsuspicious.
Galzria: He makes it very hard to have an opinion of him because he-just-posts-so-much. So much info, and so much silliness. And emoticons! I hate when they are not used sparingly. Oh well. Since he and I were both mafia in MII, I am having a hard time evaluating him in this new context, but he seems harmless--and also helpful--so far.
O: The biggest change for me when I went back over the thread is that now I see O as mostly innocent. I don't agree with everything he did, but his short, snarky responses don't read like mafia to me. The Jester thing was clearly a joke. The random generator was needling. The only troubling thing was his comment about the self-lynch, but we might have all been reading too much into that. He might just be the town bad boy.
Voltgloss: He essentially sounds identical to Mafia II, where he was not mafia. He has a highly analytical, sophisticated, reluctantly accusatory but accusatory nonetheless style, and he really hasn't deviated from it at all this game. I have no specific suspicion of him, though I am wary of being fooled by it (since it would be easy for him to act the exact same way and expect my faith in him).
eHalycon: He is playing a wise first round. Somewhat guarded, but doesn't avoid the subjects. I'm not alarmed by him right now but he is probably someone who could rapidly move up my suspicions depending on how he behaves henceforth. I could see the mafia doing what he's been doing--really sort of lurking but saying short concrete things now and then. But that's just a feeling.
Jotheonah: Well, he's been very purposeful this first round. I like that, but it sort of sticks out at the moment, actually. Not a lot, but Galzria seems pretty suspicious of him.
Captain Frisk: He said something way early about doing research on whether the town was likely to lynch successfully on day 1. That's nice, but you know that's kind of a good thing for the mafia to say to start building good faith. He's also made sure to get a vote out there, on me.
Michaeljb: Well, he had a LOT of silly posts early on. Silly posts make me suspicious when they come from new players, because I am thinking that a new mafia would want to be involved in the conversation a reasonable amount, but would be afraid of saying anything. So he would see a lot of silly posts mix with more substance. Michaeljb, and the top 2 people, have been repeat offenders on this. Michaeljb had some defensive moments mid-late through the day, also.
Dsell and Eevee: Really, these are the two people who stick out to me as mafia. Dsell has been waging a pretty relentless crusade against me. I won't go so far as to say it's baseless, but it's weird. I think it's weird, at least. I try to take a slightly less active role on Day 1 and I find myself being totally attacked by this guy. And of course the biggest thing with him is pre-emptively defending himself in case of a mislynch. Everybody remember that? Also, he was already worried about me doing a false roleclaim. Really, he has a Robz888 focus and as Robz888 I don't get it. He's very misguided or he's mafia.
Eevee hopped right on that bandwagon, and he did so after I had said that I would be posting a big accusations post (where I also asked to hold off on voting for me until after I'd made it), and then he voted for me, before I get the post up. I thought he might have suspected I was going to put him at the top here and wanted to get his vote out of the way before he did. Remember also that I suspect the mafia might want to vote earlier, rather than later. If you vote early, you CAN switch if you need to, but otherwise you are in good shape not to look bandwagon-y or hammering or whatnot. So it wouldn't surprise me to see some of the early voters as mafia. (Really, though, it wouldn't surprise me to see anybody as mafia, not even Morgrim.) Also, Eevee really hit the sweet spot with some silly posts, some golly-gee I'm new to this gosh stuff, and some substance. And man, right onto the Robz bandwagon!
So, I would vote for Dsell or Eevee. Really, I suspect them about the same. Since there is already a vote for Eevee, I shall vote for him. If other players have strong opinions why Dsell is suspicious but Eevee is not, I am open to re-considering. Really, I'm open to re-considering on anyone (even Morgrim, though probably not). But that deadline really is looming more than I expected, so here's this for now:
VOTE: EEVEE
16404
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia IV: Within These Estate Walls
« on: June 01, 2012, 10:48:51 pm »
I am in, obviously.
16405
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« on: June 01, 2012, 08:27:21 pm »Captain_Frisk, I guess what I would say is that Morgrim's behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was a townie, so I'm not too worried. Robz' behavior looks very similar to Mafia II, when he was mafia, so I'm much more worried. That alone neither clears Morgrim nor does it completely incriminate Robz, but it is a cause for suspicion.
I feel like no matter what I say, you would say "See! He is mafia," which must be how Morgrim felt in Mafia II. Because literally, every time he said something, I would say, "See! He is mafia." I don't know how similarly or differently I am supposed to play from game to game, whether I am mafia or not, to be un-suspicious. Really, the factors that determine the tone/substance/frequency of posting have just as much to do with exogenous factors as they do with my role. For instance, how urgently the other games need attention, what time it is, who else is playing, etc. Look, you've all had 2 full games to get to know me and how I play, which is twice as much as anybody else. It just didn't seem urgent for me to chime it immediately and all the time here, or to offer strongly worded accusations, or to start any bandwagons. I have no firm suspicions to go off of, so that wouldn't help the town, and I preferred not to drown out people like Frisk and Eevee and you and eHalycon etc. etc., so we learn more about them. I guess that was naive of me to try and get away with a "bye" this round... but I saw it as the best thing for the town.
And now I feel like I have let the town down, because everyone thinks I am "unhelpful." What is helpful to the town, right now? You want me to whip you all up into righteous fury against someone? How should I choose that someone? Really, I was just going to sit back a little at first. Not out of laziness, or spite, or mafia-play, but because I thought the town might benefit from that approach.
Now, really, I have to admit that there was probably an error in my thinking--the voting deadline is MUCH SOONER THAN I REALIZED. So I would have been more active the last few days having known that.
I realize the onus is on me to prove my worth (and my town status, which I'm not sure I can do any better than I already have, so, yuck), so I will go back through the thread and then post in a few hours about where my suspicions lie. I hope to be able to give a voting recommendation at that point. If at that point you don't think it's "helpful," or still think I'm mafia, go ahead and pile on me, I guess.
16406
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 06:53:59 pm »Robz, were you actually drunk or were you trying to make yourself look less threatening?
Ha! I was at the bar and I was drinking... but no, I was not in bad shape at all, really.
16407
Forum Games / Re: Any void left by Mafia I?
« on: June 01, 2012, 04:39:25 pm »
In for anything.
16408
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« on: June 01, 2012, 04:05:31 pm »
Okay, here are answers to the several posts that raised questions about me since last I posted.
From Dsell:
I don't think that's a mafia-ish way to respond. I think a mafia-ish way to respond would be to launch into an essay on why I was not actually suspicious. Because I have nothing to hide, I didn't care to respond to every little needling of me. That might be hypocritical--I'm needling people, and looking for their responses--but I don't care. My idea this round was to say less than usual, because I'm one of the louder players and a two-game veteran, and I didn't want to dominate the conversation, specifically because there were so many new voices. I was looking to stir the pot and not really say much about myself. Of course you have had other designs for me, so now I must defend myself in extended fashion.
I try to switch up my play in every game, but I think it's fair to say that my play so far in this game is much more similar to Mafia I, where I was the Jailkeeper than in Mafia II, where I was the Mafia Rolecop. My analysis of my own play is that I tend to filter my comments much less when I am a townie. Let me explain: in Mafia II, I would write a whole post and then delete it before posting it. I did this probably a dozen times. I was being so careful about what I said. Every word was danger. I didn't do that at all in Mafia I, and I haven't done that in Mafia III. Not being more careful about what I say has brought a lot of suspicion on me, I see that now, but if I were the mafia I would have been more careful. Since I am not the mafia, I have not been careful.
Well, I was helpful in Mafia I in the following ways: I thought the bandwagon against theory was very wrong (and I was correct), and I figured out who the other mafia was going into the last round, blocking his kill. But I was wrong about TINAS in rounds 1 and 2. I have not yet formed strong suspicions, so I was sitting back, and needling. I actively went after Morgrim in game 2, remember, because I was the mafia.
There are more players in this game, and two of them stand out as crazy: O and Morgrim. Going after the crazy people has not yet yielded a mafia kill in the first round. Therefore, I do not think Morgrim is the mafia. O's "kill myself" thing has greater potential to be some sort of higher strategy, in my view, than Morgrim's craziness. Which is why I am still suspicious of O. But, like, just a little bit.
I still think we are unlikely to kill a mafia member this round. The other 2 games failed to do so: in this game, it will be harder. I didn't say we shouldn't try. And I do think I am worth protecting. I will be valuable to the town next round. If you don't think you need me, it hurts my feelings I suppose. Perhaps the town would be better off without you, though, since you are barking up the wrong tree!
Well, I really, really don't like you trying to weasel out of your responsibility for this, because you are wrong. To be honest, you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.
Next, Volt:
Here is one:
The mafia face an early game dilemma. What to say? They have to say SOMETHING. It can't be total nonsense or overly serious, so they say something like this. Note: This is how I would expect a new player who is the mafia to post. It's not how I would expect Voltgloss, if he were mafia, to post.
The amount of suspicion separating the person I most suspect (Dsell, now), from the person I least suspect (Morgrim) is not big. I would not vote this weekend if we didn't have the deadline approaching. And by the way, I didn't notice the deadline until yesterday. Before, Dsell was just one of a couple new players who I could see being mafia, with Eevee, Captain Frisk, michaeljb, etc. His campaign against me did not start to make me suspect him until this most recent post of his, where he's already trying to wash his hands of mislynching me.
I am taking it personally within the context of the game of Mafia, where I think I am both very useful and not very suspicious. I'm not, like, real-life taking it personally, of course not. And I certainly used and abused your trust in Mafia II, so on one hand I sort of understand your suspicion, but not really other people's at this point.
Next, Jotheonah:
"Tried to lump... together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables" is exactly what I was doing. If one of you were giving me a strong mafia read, I would obviously not do that. But since I don't have particular reasons to suspect you more than others, I would rather keep all of you around. I know how you play, and will be better able to evaluate you next round then I will eHalycon or Eevee or yuma. And that's a good thing for me and for the town. And in fact I MUST "exclude a large group of people from your suspect pool," because there are so many people. Excluding large groups of people on the slimmest of reasons is unfortunately a necessary feature of round 1. I mean, come on, nobody has particularly good reasons for anything round 1. In the other two games, three people--theory, TINAS, and Morgrim--faced round 1 lynch wagons, and none were mafia. Doesn't that tell you something?
From Dsell:
You are good at choosing a target--I believe you chose me in post #304, long before I did any of the things you found suspicious, except for not posting enough--and then building a case against him. The thing is, you've been so direct with it, I'm a little baffled. I would expect the mafia not to show so much decisiveness in leading the charge against somebody. However, I would also not expect a town member to lead a decisive charge against a veteran who is one of the town's most helpful players (indeed, you have some evidence of my helpfulness at this point--look at Mafia I, where as the Jailkeeper, I was largely responsible for the deduction that got the town to lynch Axxle, the final mafia).
You are right and you are wrong. In post #304, I chose you intentionally, but I did not assume you were mafia at that point and did NOT have in mind to frame you as mafia. As town, that is pure stupidity without real evidence. But I only made that post because of Jotheonah's prompting. I thought his way of sparking discussion was a good idea so I figured I would play along, so I aired my very mild suspicion of you. The main reason I did it though, was to try to shake you up like you so often do in other games...it's a strategy I like. I wanted to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction you would give, because hey, it usually ends up being helpful information. And for me, it was! You reacted in what I perceive to be a fairly mafia way: not responding at first, making an insubstantial post as well as a more substantial one in which you laid out your perceptions (which included some veiled suspicion cast on myself and eevee) while not really giving us all that much to go on.
I don't think that's a mafia-ish way to respond. I think a mafia-ish way to respond would be to launch into an essay on why I was not actually suspicious. Because I have nothing to hide, I didn't care to respond to every little needling of me. That might be hypocritical--I'm needling people, and looking for their responses--but I don't care. My idea this round was to say less than usual, because I'm one of the louder players and a two-game veteran, and I didn't want to dominate the conversation, specifically because there were so many new voices. I was looking to stir the pot and not really say much about myself. Of course you have had other designs for me, so now I must defend myself in extended fashion.
So, no, when I first cast suspicion on you, it was very mild suspicion because you didn't seem to play quite the same way as in the other games. All of your subsequent responses, however, have made you look more and more like mafia.
I try to switch up my play in every game, but I think it's fair to say that my play so far in this game is much more similar to Mafia I, where I was the Jailkeeper than in Mafia II, where I was the Mafia Rolecop. My analysis of my own play is that I tend to filter my comments much less when I am a townie. Let me explain: in Mafia II, I would write a whole post and then delete it before posting it. I did this probably a dozen times. I was being so careful about what I said. Every word was danger. I didn't do that at all in Mafia I, and I haven't done that in Mafia III. Not being more careful about what I say has brought a lot of suspicion on me, I see that now, but if I were the mafia I would have been more careful. Since I am not the mafia, I have not been careful.
The thing that keeps getting me is that you're right. You WERE so helpful in Mafia I, even beyond being randomly assigned jailkeeper. You aggressively went after who you perceived to be mafia (even if you were wrong the first couple times) and were a shining champion for the town. You were very helpful. But in this game, you haven't seemed very pro-town at all. You aren't exactly anti-town, more like just there. Unhelpful. Contributing, but not much. Maybe it's only that it's day 1 and you haven't had much to go on but like we are all realizing we HAVE to vote soon. And still you are unsure. The only thing that is certain is that you're gonna be a nice guy and not vote Morgrim.
Well, I was helpful in Mafia I in the following ways: I thought the bandwagon against theory was very wrong (and I was correct), and I figured out who the other mafia was going into the last round, blocking his kill. But I was wrong about TINAS in rounds 1 and 2. I have not yet formed strong suspicions, so I was sitting back, and needling. I actively went after Morgrim in game 2, remember, because I was the mafia.
There are more players in this game, and two of them stand out as crazy: O and Morgrim. Going after the crazy people has not yet yielded a mafia kill in the first round. Therefore, I do not think Morgrim is the mafia. O's "kill myself" thing has greater potential to be some sort of higher strategy, in my view, than Morgrim's craziness. Which is why I am still suspicious of O. But, like, just a little bit.
I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what. But I think the town does worse than random by killing me, Jotheonah, Galzria, or Voltgloss, in absence of extreme suspicion.
"I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what." But we would be so foolish not to try! Saying, "the town has no real chance of hitting mafia anyway so protect me!!" is the kind of just really unhelpful thing that seems so uncharacteristic of Town Robz. I would be very sad if an experienced town or certainly a town role were lynched, but you haven't done much this game to persuade me that we really really need you around.
I still think we are unlikely to kill a mafia member this round. The other 2 games failed to do so: in this game, it will be harder. I didn't say we shouldn't try. And I do think I am worth protecting. I will be valuable to the town next round. If you don't think you need me, it hurts my feelings I suppose. Perhaps the town would be better off without you, though, since you are barking up the wrong tree!
But you seem to have extreme suspicions of me for... playing the way I told you the mafia would play? But then if you think I am mafia, why wouldn't you think I would lie to you about how the mafia would play?
You really can't lie about the way that mafia play because you've said similar things in the other games. Lying about that would be more incriminating than...well, hanging around in the background, like you were trying to do.
If I turn out to be wrong and lead your lynch and you turn out to be a townie, that would be very unfortunate. And I would expect a lot of suspicion to be cast on me, rightly so. But I trust that my posts thus far and future posts will be clear, well-reasoned, and show my support for the town.
Well, I really, really don't like you trying to weasel out of your responsibility for this, because you are wrong. To be honest, you are playing like me in Mafia II, and I am your round one Morgrim.
Next, Volt:
And I am also hoping you can answer a couple of questions below, regarding this comment you made in #338 when responding to Dsell's suspicions voiced in #304 (after his request you do so in #325):I phrased it that way to be sort of a purposefully nasty retort to him, to see what he would do. It doesn't make much sense in any context. He suspected me before I suspected him. And I didn't even particularly suspect him until his most recent statements. I wanted to see how he would react.And... you are near the top on my list of suspicions, as you seem to have guessed. Your posts nicely fit the model I outlined, with a mix of serious and then taking-it-back plus humor and emoticons. Frequent but not too frequent.
- Why did you think Dsell "seem[ed] to have guessed" that you suspected him?
- Which posts of Dsell's fit the model you outlined in #324?
Here is one:
What's this?! We were having a perfectly lovely conversation about avatars and begging for twigs, and now people are suddenly calling for a hanging??What a mad world we live in!
Seriously though, I'm glad to see more substantive posts! I do hope we can hear a little more from the quieter ones, and it doesn't seem to me like throwing a couple votes out early is putting us in too much danger of an early hammer. It seems like a terribly obvious mafia move to throw 2 or 3 bandwagon votes on a person in the first round to bring the hammer down. Nobody wants to actually lynch right now, we just want strong reactions. And strong reactions are good because a mafia player might be more likely to slip if they have to really defend themselves.
The mafia face an early game dilemma. What to say? They have to say SOMETHING. It can't be total nonsense or overly serious, so they say something like this. Note: This is how I would expect a new player who is the mafia to post. It's not how I would expect Voltgloss, if he were mafia, to post.
- You say Dsell was "near the top" of your suspicions list. That suggests he was not AT the top. Who was? Are they still there? If not, what has changed?
The amount of suspicion separating the person I most suspect (Dsell, now), from the person I least suspect (Morgrim) is not big. I would not vote this weekend if we didn't have the deadline approaching. And by the way, I didn't notice the deadline until yesterday. Before, Dsell was just one of a couple new players who I could see being mafia, with Eevee, Captain Frisk, michaeljb, etc. His campaign against me did not start to make me suspect him until this most recent post of his, where he's already trying to wash his hands of mislynching me.
Robz, I trust you won't take this inquiry personally. I do agree that, if you are Town, you're a great asset to the Town. The flip side of that is, if you are Mafia (or SK), you could be the Town's worst nightmare. So I'm hoping your responses allay my concerns, because I really don't like the alternative.
I am taking it personally within the context of the game of Mafia, where I think I am both very useful and not very suspicious. I'm not, like, real-life taking it personally, of course not. And I certainly used and abused your trust in Mafia II, so on one hand I sort of understand your suspicion, but not really other people's at this point.
Next, Jotheonah:
Ok, I've been looking back at Robz's posts. I am going to agree with a lot of what has been said.
I'll add that twice now (first in his "Stalwarts" section and later in his defense) he's tried to lump me, Galz, Volt, and him together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables. I think he's hoping we'll come to his defense, and to somehow tie himself to whatever pro-town sentiment the rest of us has. As "O" has repeatedly pointed out, our status as helpful townies is very much in question given the disastrous outcome of our game. So the "don't lynch these helpful townies" angle rings hollow. Excluding a large group of people from your suspect pool off the bat for largely irrelevant reasons is anti-Town. With Volt, I await your responses.
"Tried to lump... together as a core group of Day 1 unlynchables" is exactly what I was doing. If one of you were giving me a strong mafia read, I would obviously not do that. But since I don't have particular reasons to suspect you more than others, I would rather keep all of you around. I know how you play, and will be better able to evaluate you next round then I will eHalycon or Eevee or yuma. And that's a good thing for me and for the town. And in fact I MUST "exclude a large group of people from your suspect pool," because there are so many people. Excluding large groups of people on the slimmest of reasons is unfortunately a necessary feature of round 1. I mean, come on, nobody has particularly good reasons for anything round 1. In the other two games, three people--theory, TINAS, and Morgrim--faced round 1 lynch wagons, and none were mafia. Doesn't that tell you something?
16409
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 12:06:50 pm »
I deeply, deeply, deeply enjoy being the mafia.
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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:57:14 am »Pretty much. Unless you feel inclined to test my faith early, which you (I would think) have little reason to do.
Now we are at the mercy of this mad man...
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Forum Games / Re: Any void left by Mafia I?
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:55:42 am »
I am in! Love it.
16412
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:52:53 am »
I was worried it was coming apart in Day 2. Man I was scummy in Day 2. I ended up voting for K, even though it was clear I had singled him out as innocent earlier, and actually had been going after Insomniac.
You know, the Morgrim thing actually posed a huge problem for Galz and me, because there were only 4 Morgrim voters! That narrows it down, I thought. Luckily the whole dialogue shifted suspicion to the people who hadn't voted Morgrim. That was... fortunate.
You know, the Morgrim thing actually posed a huge problem for Galz and me, because there were only 4 Morgrim voters! That narrows it down, I thought. Luckily the whole dialogue shifted suspicion to the people who hadn't voted Morgrim. That was... fortunate.
16413
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Resistance: The Empire Must Fall
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:42:58 am »
So this is the one we HAVE to approve, right, because of Galzria's card?
16414
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:41:21 am »
Yeah, Bozzball. No one was going to save Bozzball in the night.
Also, I had not forgotten his Round 1 vote for me for just speaking. Couldn't risk anything like that happening again.
Also, I had not forgotten his Round 1 vote for me for just speaking. Couldn't risk anything like that happening again.
16415
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 11:19:02 am »
Oh my goodness we win! Ha, yeah last night I was totally trying to signal to Galz that he should vote Volt and I would do it and that would be that. But yeah it was really risky to actually do that incase J unvoted, and we didn't need to take risks by then.
Galz played masterfully. I don't even understand how he did it. No one seriously suspected him, ever. And we were hardly mentioned as a possible pair.
So, I investigated Volt on Night 1 and J on Night 2. So I knew that Insomniac was the Doctor/Jailer or he was nothing and there was no Doctor. I thought I could beat Insomniac in a head-on argument, which is why we wanted him in the game this last round. But what if he roleclaimed? I HAD to beat him to it. And that immediate vote he placed on me gave me something of an excuse. So, that's why I did it. Really, I had to... because Insomniac was the only person who even could have had a role at that time, and he was the person I needed to convince you all to lynch.
Galz played masterfully. I don't even understand how he did it. No one seriously suspected him, ever. And we were hardly mentioned as a possible pair.
So, I investigated Volt on Night 1 and J on Night 2. So I knew that Insomniac was the Doctor/Jailer or he was nothing and there was no Doctor. I thought I could beat Insomniac in a head-on argument, which is why we wanted him in the game this last round. But what if he roleclaimed? I HAD to beat him to it. And that immediate vote he placed on me gave me something of an excuse. So, that's why I did it. Really, I had to... because Insomniac was the only person who even could have had a role at that time, and he was the person I needed to convince you all to lynch.
16416
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 02:41:16 am »Nevermind I see why. You guys barely feuded. WE feuded you guys briefly threw pillows at each other to look innocent
Yes, compared to Insomniac and myself, J and me basically braided each others' hair and talked about who we had crushes on. Still, I think it's worth ruling out. J came after me strong at the start of Day 2, has not ratified my Doctor claim, and I have explicitly said that he is the second mafia. (Also, I KNOW that I can rule it out, because I am not the mafia. J has ruled it out, I'm sure, for similar reasons. That's true from my perspective for the R-V pairing too, though.)
16417
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 02:30:51 am »
Here are all possible remaining pairs:
I-R
I-V
I-J
I-G
J-V
J-R
J-G
R-V
R-G
G-V
We will eliminate R-I, R-J, and V-J do to feuding between the parties. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
I-G
J-G
R-V
R-G
G-V
We will eliminate all the additional pairings that should have produced a hammer on Robz888 or Insomniac. Since we voted for each other, G-J and G-V should have resulted in the end of the game. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
I-G
R-V
R-G
We will eliminate all the additional pairings that should have produced a hammer on Voltgloss. Since Jotheonah voted for Voltgloss, G-R and G-I should have produced the end of the game. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
R-V
The interesting thing is what this tells individual people. For instance, if Insomniac is innocent, he should think that J also must be innocent. If Voltgloss is innocent, he has little choice but to conclude that I am also innocent. Galzria, incidentally, qualifies as guilty in none of the final pairs.
I know that some have disqualified I-V as a possible pair. I would disqualify it only because I don't think Voltgloss is mafia, which leaves only the pair I originally proposed this round: Insomniac and Jotheonah. I am still in favor of lynching Insomniac. Aside from being the more suspicious of the two, he technically appears in more of these pairs than J.
So why have J and Insomniac split their votes? Perhaps they know they lost the argument this round, and when Insomniac dies and does come up mafia, J wants to be on record as having distanced himself.
These are just my thoughts at this point. The fact that there is no hammer yet really does support my opinion that the mafia are Insomniac and J (although I admit a Volt-me pairing or an Insomniac-Volt pairing would also produce this result.)
I-R
I-V
I-J
I-G
J-V
J-R
J-G
R-V
R-G
G-V
We will eliminate R-I, R-J, and V-J do to feuding between the parties. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
I-G
J-G
R-V
R-G
G-V
We will eliminate all the additional pairings that should have produced a hammer on Robz888 or Insomniac. Since we voted for each other, G-J and G-V should have resulted in the end of the game. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
I-G
R-V
R-G
We will eliminate all the additional pairings that should have produced a hammer on Voltgloss. Since Jotheonah voted for Voltgloss, G-R and G-I should have produced the end of the game. That leaves:
I-V
I-J
R-V
The interesting thing is what this tells individual people. For instance, if Insomniac is innocent, he should think that J also must be innocent. If Voltgloss is innocent, he has little choice but to conclude that I am also innocent. Galzria, incidentally, qualifies as guilty in none of the final pairs.
I know that some have disqualified I-V as a possible pair. I would disqualify it only because I don't think Voltgloss is mafia, which leaves only the pair I originally proposed this round: Insomniac and Jotheonah. I am still in favor of lynching Insomniac. Aside from being the more suspicious of the two, he technically appears in more of these pairs than J.
So why have J and Insomniac split their votes? Perhaps they know they lost the argument this round, and when Insomniac dies and does come up mafia, J wants to be on record as having distanced himself.
These are just my thoughts at this point. The fact that there is no hammer yet really does support my opinion that the mafia are Insomniac and J (although I admit a Volt-me pairing or an Insomniac-Volt pairing would also produce this result.)
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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: June 01, 2012, 12:05:17 am »I lied, one more: To be clear, my only possible partner now is V. J-G could've hammered R, R-G could've hammered V, and I-G could've hammered V.
So for those keeping track, the only one who COULD be my partner is V. Volt and I are not a Mafia pair.
Hooray, everyone is acquitted. And yet....
16419
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:54:40 pm »Boy, you ARE drunk. You and me. If we were Mafia we would both vote Volt now and win.
True and true.
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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:49:34 pm »And to be clear, what I meant was we can't be a pair or we would've hammered V. This did not happen. Still could, as we are both active, but isn't.
Who cant be a pair? You and Insomniac?
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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:41:29 pm »For the record, once more no hammer when it was all set up. Robz and I posted within 9 minutes of each other.
Robz,, will have my thoughts up tonight, but late.
This is getting crazy. Three suspects among 5 people? Uh, when will we get your thoughts, G?
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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:26:07 pm »
I am at the bar getting drunk on martinis but am obviously watching this closely. My position on Volt is the same as always. I wonder if Insomniac will switch, though it would be obvious why if he did. I wonder what Galz is thinking, since that is really the only vote up for grabs. No majority! Truly this is fascinating. Anyway Insomniac's comments don't bother me, I understand it's a little difficult trying to keep straight when to post what where. But it certainly doesn't change my mind about him in the slightest.
16423
Forum Games / Re: Any void left by Mafia I?
« on: May 31, 2012, 09:08:14 pm »
I would play another game. I prefer knowing what roles are available, but but either way is fine. Large group or small group is fine.
16424
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia III: In a shelter among beggars DAY 1 UNDERWAY
« on: May 31, 2012, 08:52:04 pm »Robz is exactly following the pattern he himself said we should look for in the mafia. Does he admit this? Yes, somewhat. Still, he has been wishy-washy, has said some questionable remarks that have struck me wrong, and has been generally not-that-helpful to the town. These are my primary concerns with him.
I'm also concerned that he may string things along as long as possible and when things are looking bad for him Sunday evening, say, "Ok guys I didn't want to reveal this but I am X-role." Which would let him survive another day, would probably mean a no-lynch, and (if everything goes how he would like) could win him some trust. And unless someone has the role that he claims, we can't verify the truth of his claims (until night at least, and then only if we happen to have the cop or some other similar role).
Yes, I am doing many of the things I said to look out for. I'm glad you noticed. I mean that sincerely. It tells me something about you. Do you know what I've learned about you, Dsell? You are good at choosing a target--I believe you chose me in post #304, long before I did any of the things you found suspicious, except for not posting enough--and then building a case against him. The thing is, you've been so direct with it, I'm a little baffled. I would expect the mafia not to show so much decisiveness in leading the charge against somebody. However, I would also not expect a town member to lead a decisive charge against a veteran who is one of the town's most helpful players (indeed, you have some evidence of my helpfulness at this point--look at Mafia I, where as the Jailkeeper, I was largely responsible for the deduction that got the town to lynch Axxle, the final mafia).
I think this vote is unlikely to kill a mafia member no matter what. But I think the town does worse than random by killing me, Jotheonah, Galzria, or Voltgloss, in absence of extreme suspicion.
But you seem to have extreme suspicions of me for... playing the way I told you the mafia would play? But then if you think I am mafia, why wouldn't you think I would lie to you about how the mafia would play?
Let me keep it simple: I think the mafia if they are among the new players, would be likely to post an average number of times, with some bold but hedgy accusations mixed with silliness. Obviously I do not think the mafia would CHOOSE to do that self-awarely, nor would I find it particularly suspicious if a veteran was doing that. For instance, i think that if J were mafia, he might behave a certain way... but it wouldn't be that way. He would have consciously molded his behavior to be different. So I was telling all of you what cues I was looking for in the new people, and I was also wondering if they might adjust their behavior accordingly.
I can't be too disappointed if you lynch me this round, as I've made it through many fun, arduous rounds in the other two games, but... I want the town to win, so I must implore you not to lynch me. I am useful to the town, and you will regret not having me next round.
If there are other more specific questions about me and my behavior, I would be happy to answer them. I didn't realize the lynch date was so soon at all--that's my mistake. So yes, I understand voting soon. We will have to. Though I'm not sure who I'd vote for at this point.
I will not be voting for Morgrim.
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Mafia Game Threads / Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 3)
« on: May 31, 2012, 05:59:59 pm »I'm not even sure it's the best plan, man. I just wanted to put it to you as a thought. Lylo is a terrible place to be. (That's lynch-or-lose, I read it on mafiascum).
It's a really bad plan if, as I suspect, J and Insomniac are the mafia. (It's also a bad idea if G and Insomniac or even G and J are the mafia, which I consider possible but far less likely pairings.)