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Messages - 4est

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351
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: 4est's Cards
« on: January 31, 2017, 05:11:15 pm »
I quite like your cards, thought they were very interesting! ^^

Would just make a remark about one card, I thinkk Poet has the probability of being semi-useless in a lot of boards, specially if you add all the other expansions in the mix. I would consider adding an optional discard in the top, making it similar to Oasis with a 5 card hand, what do you think?


Edit: I´ll also add one thought about Criptex, I personally think it´s very high variance, for example, I think it´s an excellent opener, and just because if you   have it on your second hand in the second shuffle, it´s 100% guaranteed to work. Now consider a mirror where both players open Criptex, there´s a very high chance that if one player gets second hand Criptex while the other doesn´t, leads to a game that´s very much in favor of the player that had it´s Criptex activated.

Thanks gloures for the thoughts! 

Early on, I considered including some sort of discard effect with Poet, for the exact reason you suggested, but decided the card would be simpler and a bit more compelling without it.  Indeed, there will certainly be boards that are not as good for Poet than others, but all you need for Poet to "work" (aside from being hit by discard attacks) is to first play at least one card that doesn't increase or maintain your handsize--and there are lots of actions across all the expansions that either don't draw or even decrease handsize (Festival, Warehouse, Squire, Villa, Hamlet are just a few of many, many examples).  In fact, another Poet will do this--if your first one doesn't draw, any more consecutive Poets you play will.  I think Poet is a bit like Menagerie in this respect--neither are mindless drawing cards and both like a little bit of finesse to get the most out of them.  For now, I'm probably going to leave Poet as is and focus on revising some of the other cards.

As for Cryptex, like others have mentioned, it is indeed a swingy card, especially without enablers, which isn't great, but I'm continuing to try variations to see if I can find something that works a bit better.  I definitely agree with you about opening with Cryptex--it can certainly be easier to guess correctly depending on when you draw it. 

Thanks again, everyone for your comments, all very helpful!  Hoping to post revised versions of a few of the other cards later tonight or tomorrow once I can get a few more games in with them. 

352
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: 4est's Cards
« on: January 31, 2017, 11:53:45 am »
Fish Market looks neat, but I think discarding one card is enough of a drawback. It seems weak when you have to discard two.

I still need to test this, but just wanted to throw an idea out there: perhaps changing the "Do this twice" clause to "You may do this once or twice" on Fish Market might strengthen it a bit.  That way, if you're satisfied after discarding once, it doesn't force you to discard again (Heck, you could not discard at all if you really wanted, but then you just paid $5 for a cantrip).  Not a super exciting revision, but it seems like this minor change would maximize Fish Market's main theme, its flexibility, without making it overpowered.  Thoughts?

353
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: 4est's Cards
« on: January 31, 2017, 08:32:32 am »
Thanks guys for the comments thus far--especially Theta and LibraryAdventurer--super helpful stuff! 

I'm currently working to make slight revisions to Peasant Village, Falconer, Investor, Marshal, and Rebellion which I'll agree are all currently a bit vanilla.  I've got a few ideas which I think will add a bit of complexity and unique flavor to each card without becoming overly complex or overpowered.  I'll of course need to playtest revisions before posting updates (my playtesting schedule is currently somewhat determined by how much Dominion my incredibly patient wife is willing to play with me every evening haha). 

I like the idea of maybe trying Cryptex without the discard penalty.  I played a game the other day where that part got a bit annoying--will need to make sure it's not too strong without that.  And yeah, Astronomer needs more playtesting to figure out how much revealing (just my hand, just another player's, or both) will make the card sometimes a Lab (like Vagrant or Patrician), but not like all the time. 

On Water Wheel, that was the last card I made and has thus gotten far less play testing than some of the other cards.  Thanks LibraryAdventurer for pointing out that, yes, it's only a Lab or Silver if it's in your hand at the start of your turn.  But reading the comments and looking at it some more, I'm realizing some potential problems with this mechanic--for example, if your deck is small enough, you could theoretically discard and draw the same WW over and over which is weird (albeit usually pointless).  Gonna go back to the drawing board on this one too. 

Thanks again for the comments thus far, my friends!  Will start posting updated cards in the OP when I have time.  Please keep posting any other observations on the cards--I really appreciate the help!

354
Variants and Fan Cards / 4est's Cards
« on: January 29, 2017, 06:40:21 pm »
Hello friends!

I’ve been playing Dominion online and IRL for a few years now and only in the last few months have I started getting more involved with f.ds discussions and tournaments and such.  It’s an awesome community (one of the most friendly and respectful I’ve seen on the internet) and I’ve been learning a ton by reading and posting and playing.  And now, I’m trying my hand at a small fan expansion!

Currently, it’s 17 cards, that loosely revolve around the theme of discarding for benefit and cycling cards that either like or can create small hand-sizes.  I kept them simple—no durations, tokens, reserves, debt, potions, travellers and such.  All have gone through some playtesting, but I'm continuing to playtest and modify as I go. 

I’d love to get feedback from the community—do certain cards seem too strong or too weak, does wording need to be more clear, do certain mechanics need reworking, etc.  I appreciate your help!  Please post comments below.

Thanks!

4est



Kingdom Cards:





Individual Cards:



I’ve discovered a new planet—I mean, card-shaped thing!  I wanted a cheap Vagrant/Patrician that prefers variety.  The first version of Astronomer was effectively a mini-Hunting Party, but that immediately proved to be too strong in play testing—way too easy for them to just be $2 Labs.  This revised version checks another player's hand instead.





Unlike most of my cards which started with a card idea or mechanic, and got names and images later, Brewery started with the name and image.  Emulating the drunk monk, I wanted a weird hand-discarder like Minion that works out for you in the end.  You can keep your best 2 cards, or if your cards suck, discard them all and draw 3 more, to go with your extra actions and coins.





Carnival’s “travel between players” mechanic is inspired by Last Footnote’s Wanderer and Asper’s Pilgrim, but instead of a draw card, Carnival provides some nice payload.  It’s great for hitting $5 and $6 in the early game, and higher price points later, and players are never sad to have one passed to them.  Another key difference is that taking the coins and passing to your opponent is optional—you can always play it just for the non-terminal buy and cash out at another time (or try to amass a few Carnivals for a big turn later).





My Butcher variant that uses discarding instead of Coin tokens for Remodeling.  Early on, it also drew a card, but this made it just a bit too easy to gain cards costing $4 more, so the +1 Card was removed. 





It’s a giant Workshop!  Gainers that can gain that many cards per play are always risky designs, but the differently named clause prevents it from piledriving, and on many boards, you end up taking stuff you don’t necessarily need.  Also, for each card you gain, you can discard something else to topdeck it, a handy little bonus. 





Falconer is a cheap Band of Misfits variant that offers you a choice when you play it: a simple cantrip, or play it as the worst Action card in your opponent's hand.  Sometimes what they reveal just doesn’t work, but hey that’s okay, Falconer can never hurt you.  But sometimes, their worst card is still a winner.  Late game, it can become a tactical puzzle for your opponent on which of their good actions to reveal that will help you the least. 





Market is a nice card, but sometimes it feels sad to pay $5 and not use all the +Buys or Coin.  Introducing Fish Market, where you can build your own Market!  Need a Village?  Just discard a card.  Need +Buy?  Just discard a card.  Need Coin?  You know what to do.  Don’t need any of those?  Then just draw a card.  Need an actual Market?  Well you probably should have just bought one of those then.  It’s the flexibility you’re paying for in Fish Market. 





It's a Smithy with a neat discard effect.  It does suffer from the Harbinger effect—you’re sad when your discard is empty, but when it’s not, trading out the worst card in your hand for the best card in your discard pile is a sweet deal.   





My attempt at a fast Big Money enabler.  Also a lesson in basic personal finance: I can spend all my money now, invest a little in a short term return next turn, or invest a lot in a long term return next shuffle.  If only it was this simple in real life..





Marshal is a cantrip discard attack like Urchin, but multiples can bring your opponent down to 3 cards in hand (like Soldier).  Sometimes you don't mind getting hit by two Marshals though, since it sort of counters other Marshals by giving you a nice bonus with a small handsize. 





A cheap village that gives you a choice of what to do with the top card of your deck.  It can offer +Buy with a little sifting, light trashing, or a draw and discard--all useful things, but the randomness makes the card play a little bit differently each time. 





Another Draw-to-X style card, this time in Peddler form.  The fewer cards you have in hand, the better Poet gets.  With five or more, it’s a nonterminal Copper: okay, not so great.  But it has the potential to draw two, three, even four cards.  Good thing you’ve been playing all those discard for benefit cards!





The curser for this set, Rebellion provides a nice chunk of terminal coin for each set of duplicate cards in your hand.  The attack gives a Torturer-like Curse or discard choice for hands with duplicate cards, but can be countered by hands with no duplicates.  Rebellions need like-minded people working together in order to succeed.   





I wanted both a trasher and gainer in the expansion, and then I had the idea: why not make a card that does both?  Smelter is flexible, trashing like Steward or gaining like Workshop, and if you’re feeling adventurous, you can do both, but then your opponents get to trash too.  Better make it worth it!





Playing Treasures from your hand is so old school.  Nowadays we just discard them instead!  Introducing Trinket, the Treasure you can’t wait to discard!  On play, it’s just a nonterminal Herbalist, but you can also play it on your next Buy phase by discarding it.  Anything Tunnel likes, Trinket likes too.





Similar to Watchtower in its versatility, Undertaker has lots of neat reaction tricks up its sleeve.  It can turn sifters into trashers (including other Undertakers), it can defend against trashing attacks and make discard attacks actually helpful, it can turn trash-for-benefits like Apprentice into crazy discard-for-benefits instead, etc.  I’ve tried a bunch of different things for the top, and settled on a terminal Forum for now, but I’m still testing other options as well.   





The first version of Water Wheel had 2VP and could be discarded from your hand at the start of your turn for a bonus but it proved to be confusing, overpowered, and could lead to weird discarding loops.  So it was scrapped and replaced with this version, still with 2VP but now a Scheme-like on-buy effect.  Basically, you can discard whatever cards you have left in your hand to Scheme that many cards you have in play (including Treasures) to use next turn.  With just a few discards, you can set up an ideal next hand.  It’s pricey though, and only worth it if you actually have some cards left in your hand when you buy it, otherwise you just spent $6 for 2VP.  And of course, once it’s in your deck, Water Wheel is a dead card—and another prime target for discarding when you buy another one.



Outtakes:


 

355
Tournaments and Events / Re: Mono-Set Tournament #2
« on: January 25, 2017, 12:06:36 am »
4est 4 – 2 gloures
G1 – corn/guilds - 4est starts – 4est wins
G2 - seaside - gloures starts - 4est wins
G3 - empires - 4est starts – 4est wins
G4 – dark ages - gloures start - gloures wins
G5 - adventures - 4est starts - gloures wins
G6 - intrigue – gloures starts – 4est wins

356
Tournaments and Events / Re: Mono-Set Tournament #2
« on: January 23, 2017, 02:09:26 pm »
Thanks for organizing this Chris.  gloures and I have our match scheduled for tomorrow night.  Will post results once available. 

357
Banquet + Ill-Gotten Gains

While we're on the topic of Banquet, I just played a game with these two and noticed the rush opportunity.  Banquet basically guarantees an IGG purchase every turn (you can open double IGG on a 4-3 split!), and with the flood of Coppers, hitting $3 is no problem.  I emptied the IGGs and Curses in ten turns and then rushed Duchies. 

Not a great way to make friends. 

358
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Lurker
« on: January 17, 2017, 03:01:09 pm »
Lurker has a fun interaction with Castles, since Small Castle and Opulent Castle are both Action-Victory cards.  You can play and trash your Small Castle to gain another Castle and then regain it with Lurker--just don't leave it in the trash too long or your opponent might nab it with their own Lurker! 

Opulent Castle can also be trashed and gained with Lurker, which is helpful for getting it for the first time, and in rare cases can also make it a nice reusable target for TfB cards (TfB in general tends to make Lurker much stronger).  For example, in a recent game, trashing Opulent Castle with Apprentice became my main source of draw (+7 cards!), and then I'd just make sure to pick it back up with Lurker to use again next turn. 

359
Secret Passage of course works great with actions that care about the top or second card of your deck: wish well with Wishing Well and Mystic, set up an action card for Herald or Vassal to play, place junk for Sentry or Lookout to trash, etc.

A few other Estate sifting synergies come to mind: Topdeck an Estate and then skip it with Farming Village. Put an Estate second from the top and then your Ironmonger is a Lab.

Secret Passage isn't necessarily a power card, but it's certainly a handy utility and has some tricks up its sleeve.

360
Just played a game with Armory and Vassal.  With some village support, you can topdeck an action with Armory and then immediately play it with Vassal.  Twice I managed to play multiple Armories to set up a stack of multiple Vassals that I could immediately chain through with another Vassal in hand. 

Not necessarily a game-changing combo, but it was certainly neat and useful to me at the time!

361
Port is really good too.

Port is also really interesting and unique. It kinda feels like Border Village; pay for one card, get two.

Port is particularly unique in its distribution since it only takes six buys to empty the pile instead of ten.  On boards when it's the only village, it's vastly more critical to win the split than with other villages.  Losing the Fishing Village split 4-6 is bad, but losing the Port split is disastrous: you get four villages while your opponent gets eight, i.e. twice the terminal space!  For this reason especially, I think Port definitely earns its place among the villages on this list--each Port purchase is worth so much more than just $4 since they're a limited commodity and more quickly deny terminal space to your opponent.

362
Tournaments and Events / Re: Mono-Set Tournament #2
« on: January 06, 2017, 03:35:40 pm »
/in if there's still space

363
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Replace
« on: December 02, 2016, 02:26:55 pm »
If topdecking is so great, why isn't Develop great?

Develop is inflexible with its "exactly" verbage, which Remodel and Replace don't have.  Additionally, when compared with Replace, Develop is much worse for trashing Coppers (which gets you nothing) and Estates (which gets you just one top-decked $3 cost card, unless Poor House is in the kingdom).

364
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Replace
« on: December 01, 2016, 04:53:38 pm »
I want to bring up Replacing Coppers into Estates again - what are all your thoughts on this?  I was playing with a friend who bought 3 Replaces, while I bought 3 Counterfeits on a Banquet board, and he ended up winning, I just couldn't really do anything with all the Curses.  I think it comes down to Replace, well, replaces a card, and adds a card to the opponent's deck, so they get more junk.  We did also have more Coppers than usual due to Banquet.

I haven't played enough games with Replace to understand it fully, but it seems like the strategy of Replacing Coppers into Estates just for the attack wouldn't normally be all that helpful to the attacker since they're sort of junking their own deck by reducing their own economy and increasing their number of dead cards.  The Curses hurt your opponent a lot, that's for sure, but without the attack, how often do you buy a Remodel just to turn your Coppers into Estates, especially in the early or midgame?  I can see the synergy with Banquet for that particular game--each Banquet purchase came with a Replace and two more fodder.  But otherwise Replacing your starting Coppers into Estates seems like it would slow you down too in the early game, which makes me think the topdecking of stronger actions and treasures is faster and more helpful for you at first, and then maybe transitioning into cursing later?

It's interesting to note that with Remodel, remodeling Curses into Estates results in a two VP swing, whereas with Replace, it's a three VP swing as long as there are Curses left.     

365
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Replace
« on: November 30, 2016, 03:53:43 pm »
Replace is especially great for MILL-ing your Estates. 

366
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Bandit
« on: November 29, 2016, 05:51:34 pm »
I feel the main reason the treasure-trashing attacks (Thief, Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand) have tended to be a bit on the weaker side is because usually the strongest counter to these attacks is to just not play Big Money.  All three of these do little damage to engines (and in the case of Thief and Pirate Ship, actually help the engine builder by trashing their Coppers), so if an engine is available, the correct move is often to skip the treasure-trasher and go for the engine.  Pirate Ship is slightly different in that it can still be useful in generating coin for the attacker in the late game, but against action-heavy, treasure-light (or treasure-less) engines, Noble Brigand and Thief can actually be useless to the attacker since they will rarely, if ever, gain treasures in the mid and late game. 

Bandit on the other hand is very different from these other three in that the "counter" of going engine doesn't hurt the attacker as badly since it always gains them Golds, regardless of what cards are revealed in the attack.  Whereas the strength of other three is largely dependent upon your opponent's strategy (e.g. strong against Big Money, very weak against engines), Bandit doesn't need to flip treasures in order to "work"; instead, the gold gaining becomes the primary function of the card and the treasure trashing becomes an added bonus when it hits.  With this in mind, I think Bandit-BM will definitely be vastly stronger than Thief-BM, Pirate Ship-BM, or Noble Brigand-BM against engine-players, but it's hard to say by how much. 

I'll add that I do really like that Bandit is also its own counter, much more directly and elegantly than the other three treasure-trashing attacks.

367
Tournaments and Events / Re: Mono-Set Tournament
« on: November 29, 2016, 02:34:46 pm »
/in unless it's not too late

368
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: MJ's Cards
« on: November 29, 2016, 12:35:24 pm »
This same mechanic of "Islanding" your victory cards as you buy them could also be replicated using an Event that you have to buy before purchasing the victory card:

$2 - Event
+1 Buy
Put the next card you buy on your Tavern Mat.

369
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Sentry
« on: November 29, 2016, 11:54:26 am »
So I've mostly written a simulator (by hand!) that just buys Silver or Sentry every turn and plays all the Sentry it can each turn. Before I run it 10,000 times or whatever to see how many cards it trashes per play, I just wanted a few opinions on constraints:

1. How many turns should I run per game? (Ten?)
2. How many Sentry to buy? (Two?)
3. Always topdeck Silver or always discard Silver? (Topdeck?)

So far early results seem to indicate it is rare to trash 2 cards with Sentry more than once.

I'd say ten turns should be plenty to look at.  Barring sloggy games with lots of junking, you should be shifting from deck thinning to engine building by that point, and less concerned with trashing multiple cards.  It seems for the purposes of this discussion, we're mostly interested in the early game trashing ability of Sentry.

You could try testing both one or two--I wonder if adding that second one really increases your chances of trashing two cards on play, my guess is that it doesn't.

I'd say topdeck silver, since especially in the early game, playing your silver for economy will usually be better than cycling it.

It would be interesting to see the difference in trashing efficiency between getting Sentry before the first shuffle vs. before the second.

I also like JW's idea to compare with Junk Dealer (e.g. on average, will two Sentries trash more or fewer junks than two JDs?).

370
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Sentry
« on: November 28, 2016, 08:44:05 pm »
I would say it's pretty hard to get sentry to miss while you have 10 junks and 4 good cards

You'd be surprised just how rare hitting 2 good cards is in that scenario, when you include things like Sentry missing the shuffle, other card draw, etc. into the equation.

Neither Sentry missing the shuffle or other card draw (unless you draw all or all but 1-2 cards of your deck) impacts the average number of junk cards that Sentry hits in a deck of 10 junks and 4 non-junk. If you have 10 junks and 4 non-junk (not counting the Sentry that you are playing), you hit 0 junk 6.6% of the time, 1 junk 44.0% of the time, and 2 junk 49.5% of the time, for an average of 1.43 junk cards.

I'm not super good at calculating the statistics of all this so these numbers are helpful (this does take into account that when you play Sentry, you'll have four other cards in your hand, plus the one you draw, right?).  I'll add that the above numbers of course assume you've purchased your Sentry on turn 3 or 4 (and purchased, let's say for simplicity's sake, silvers on turn 1 and 2), and then play it on turn 5 when your deck consists of 10 junks and 4 non-junk.  If you miss playing Sentry on turn 5 or 6, then you'll be hitting your second shuffle and have 10 junks and 6 non-junks in your deck, reducing the chances of flipping two junk significantly.  Basically my point is that if you're gaining a card each turn (that you want to keep), each turn that you don't play Sentry, your chances of trashing two junks decrease dramatically.

I'd be curious to see more simulator data on this!

371
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Second Edition Cards: Sentry
« on: November 28, 2016, 04:57:51 pm »
If we're comparing Junk Dealer and Sentry, I'd agree that purely as a trasher, Junk Dealer is stronger than Sentry.  Unless you can get Sentry before your first shuffle, it becomes very difficult to line up your junk within just the two card range Sentry looks at.  Additionally, Junk Dealer's ability to trash from your hand usually gives more flexibility and potential targets to trash than Sentry does.  I've had multiple games where I play Sentry with a Copper or Estate in hand only to reveal two action cards (which I put back, hooray)--if I'd had a Junk Dealer instead, I could have at least trashed something from my hand and had +$1.  Yes, when you do flip two junk cards with Sentry and trash them, it's amazing, but that's remarkably rare--if you don't buy Sentry until after your first shuffle, it might happen once in a game if you're lucky.

As a trasher, I think I'd only choose Sentry over Junk Dealer on a 5-2 split, as the chances of trashing two cards with it are highest if you can get it right away.  Otherwise, if I can't hit $5 until turn 3 or 4, I'd go with Junk Dealer for a more reliable trasher that can provide some economy.

That said, once you're into the mid to late game, I do think Sentry becomes much stronger than Junk Dealer as it doesn't force you to trash, which makes JD a liability sometimes.  Instead, Sentry acts as a half-Cartographer, filtering your green cards from the top of your deck, while leaving the actions you want on top, and perhaps trashing the occasional Curse that pops up.  True, Sentry won't be the star of the show late game, but it also won't be a dead card in a hand full of provinces and actions like JD can become.

372
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion and Intrigue second editions
« on: September 28, 2016, 08:41:44 am »
A few observations on Lurker (some of these have already been mentioned):

It does seem to be a slow card indeed, requiring a pair (or TR/KC) most times to gain actions (so not to risk opponents sniping actions you've trashed with their own Lurkers) but I can definitely see a variety of opportunities for it to be pretty strong and versatile in certain kingdoms. 

It can gain potion cards without potions (e.g. Familiar, Possession), debt cards without taking debt (e.g. City Quarter), expensive cards like KC or Prince without the $, Grand Market with coppers in play, etc.

There are of course lots of cards with fun on-trash benefits from Dark Ages: trash a Cultist for a double Lab, trash a Squire for an Attack card, trash a Rats for a cantrip, trash a Hunting Grounds for a Duchy, etc.

Lurker can be a straight-up Fortress gainer--with Fortress in the supply, a Lurker in your hand can become a Fortress in your hand! 

It's strong with TfB: keep your Apprentice engine going by continuously regaining trashed actions for fodder, pick up actions your opponent fed to Salvager to feed to your own Salvager, etc. 

And as others have mentioned, it's great for pile control--it doesn't take too many throned Lurkers to drain that third pile for a surprise ending. 

Lurker will be situational for sure, but it still looks like a lot of fun!

373
2016 DominionStrategy Championships / Re: Signups 2016 f.ds Championship
« on: August 30, 2016, 02:22:05 pm »
/in

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