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Messages - dbclick

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26
Just a thought (roughly speaking):

Adventures = Seaside sequel
Empires = Prosperity sequel
Nocturne = Dark Ages sequel
Renaissance = Guilds Sequel (looks like returning coin tokens Coffers)

And as we all know, Guilds was a Masterpiece (or 10).

27
crj has an interesting concept (hurt yourself or be hurt by others), but I'm not sure the card proposed could make games interesting enough to be worth it.
I'm inclined to agree with Holunder9 on this one. It seems like it would be too strong to have unlimited defense so early with such a cheap penalty.

If the interplay crj suggests occurs, then most of the interesting decisions are over after the opening, and worse, the card just sits there doing nothing in many games (either due to the stalemate or the lack of major attacks). To me, it's not that hard to see if you should keep it on your mat or not. You're also not having very much fun when you have to hurt yourself and it would be pretty painful in multiplayer: if everyone keeps it on their mat in a stalemate the game feels like it's getting slowed down.

28
I definitely agree that the card I proposed is very different. It would be tricky to have the one you proposed scale up for multiplayer (hence why I put forth my idea).

I think mine has the core dynamic of having to decide whether to save it for defending attacks the next round or discard it now for a slightly better turn. Which is an interesting dynamic, but a different one.

The other issue with defending against individual attacks is it only becomes interesting in games that have multiple attacks coming your way that stack (say like most junking attacks, or Hexes).
In order for the Shield-defend-once to be the most meaningful, I have to be in a game where:
  • There are attacks that stack or multiple types of attacks that effectively stack (e.g. a handsize attack and a junker instead of multiple handsize attacks)
  • There are ways to play multiple attacks (e.g. Village) or enough players that will be playing the attack

It seems like Shield would be less meaningful in Kingdoms without those properties.

The modification you put out for naming a card to defend against is interesting in that you have to have multiple copies of Shield loaded to make it work against multiple named attack cards. However, it still has the issue of having the above requirements needed to be useful except it gets even narrower by eliminating single attacks that stack from the picture (e.g. junkers):

For my card, I was going for something that would be somewhat useful and interesting in the majority of games. Not saying yours is worse, just narrower.

29
Thanks for the feedback!

As worded this is a Reserve, not a Duratio (you probably have in mind that this becomes a Duration after being called, laying in your play area like a Duration card, but technically it is not).
It's a Duration card so it doesn't clean-up on the turn it's called (unlike Coin of the Realm and Royal Carriage which clean up on that turn - this is to provide tracking for whether its protecting you). It's also a Reserve because it goes to the Tavern mat and can be called/discarded from there. Really just semantics, but I think the Duration type here is correct.

The play effect is too strong, cheap cantrip are easy spammable and thus kill all Attacks (even a mere non-terminal like Lighthouse can kill off Attacks).
It's possible that having it be a cantrip is too powerful due to the filtering, but It should probably be non-terminal. It could simply be reversed to have it discard first, then draw and keep the cantrip. Defense in Dominion is pretty weak overall, but I could see it being a cantrip could result in a fair number of people spamming it enough to block all attacks (which still wouldn't be terrible because of the general opportunity cost of doing so).

The call-effect is far too strong, making it a delayed Forum (and, ignorign the defense aspect, arguably better than Dungeon).
Dungeon filters on the turn it's played. This wouldn't — it's worse in that regard. Also, the value of delaying an effect to the next turn devalues it significantly so having it cost less isn't as overpowered as you might think. It may be something that could bump the cost up to 3 if playtesting showed that. Or potentially, as previously stated, discard first then draw.

The call-to-defense thing makes the defense part of this strictly better than Lighthouse or Guardian.
That's the idea. It provides no benefit while on the mat and so you have to weigh the cost of it sitting there versus calling it, unlike Guardian, which you can buy at any time and have it apply immediately instead of having to buy, cycle, and play it before use. Lighthouse gives you 2 coins across 2 turns, so this is different; it could be better sometimes, other times no.

I thought that the idea of a Reserve defense was to have a trade-off between the flexibility of only defending when needed  and then only being able to defend once.
The reason I proposed this idea is that the defend-only-once property scales terribly between different numbers of players. You still can only defend on the rounds you need to (which forces you to track your opponents decks more). If this is too powerful, then you could make it not a cantrip in some way, like removing the +1 Card aspect. Possibly make it terminal with some bonus, but I like the idea of not having to take a terminal slot in your turn for defense, which I think would make it too costly to use.

If I were to weaken it, I'd do something more like:

Shield, Duration-style v2
Action — Duration — Reserve
Cost:
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your turn you may discard this from your Tavern mat. If you do, discard 2 cards then +2 Cards.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first call this to be, until your next turn, unaffected when other players play Attack cards.



I'd love to playtest both.

30
How about making it an Action - Reserve - Duration with an optional call? That would mostly solve the multiplayer scaling issues.
Something like this (wording isn't perfect):

Shield, Duration-style
Action — Duration — Reserve
Cost:
+1 Action
+1 Card
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your turn you may discard this from your Tavern mat. If you do, +2 Cards then discard 2 cards.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first call this to be, until your next turn, unaffected when other players play Attack cards.



Discarding it from the Tavern mat solves the tracking issue - if it's in front of you, its protecting you from attacks. This also speeds it up slightly when used for filtering.

31
Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Remaining mysteries
« on: November 04, 2017, 03:16:07 pm »
* Will there be an Heirloom called Grimoire?
I will say this is a no. :) You can quote me on it when Nocturne releases.

I suspect there will be another way to gain Wishes, based on there being 12 in the pile and how hard it is to get them with Leprechaun. I mean, there's enough for each of 6 players to get 2 before playing them. It would be weird to waste cards in the set that wouldn't likely be used. I'm going to guess that it would be related to one of the remaining two Heirloom cards, but that's more of a guess.

32
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Wiki moving into the 2nd Edition
« on: January 12, 2017, 11:00:17 pm »
EDIT: Upon reflection, I think it's probably best to have the digital version in the way you have them.  I think your current formatting would be fine to put into wide release.

Sounds good. My thought was to leave the main card text and picture using the current printed ones until the new wordings are finalized. Here's an example here for Tactician:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/User:Dbclick/Tactician

The updates like Masquerade would apply to the currently released Second Editions (Base and Intrigue) and the finished soft second edition (Hinterlands).
As each additional expansion has the new wording and formatting done and we have pictures of the cards, we can update the main card text and picture for those sets.

Are those printed scans of the updated Hinterlands Donald gave you good enough to be the new main card pictures or should we wait on those until someone can buy them and scan them or try and talk someone into getting an official PDF for shrinking down?

33
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Wiki moving into the 2nd Edition
« on: January 12, 2017, 01:05:26 am »
My thinking on listing the foreign card texts was to have a resource for having the card text for foreign language cards, which would be a help for people making Dominion-related tools (randomizers, tab generators, etc.), as well as a place to list translation errors. Not really strategy-related, but important and interesting info about the card nonetheless.

Makes sense.  However, Shuffle iT will (supposedly) soon have several foreign language translations, and those will probably have at least some differences from those published by other companies.

Seems like any different or new digital text for a foreign translation could/should go in the table as another entry. I don't think the text takes up that much space vertically, since it's not taller than the image on the right, but maybe you meant something different by that?

I tried combining the print and digital versions together in the same table entries, since this makes things shorter overall without the separate "Digital versions" subsection. See what you think here:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/User:Dbclick/Masquerade2

34
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Wiki moving into the 2nd Edition
« on: January 11, 2017, 11:16:29 am »
My thinking on listing the foreign card texts was to have a resource for having the card text for foreign language cards, which would be a help for people making Dominion-related tools (randomizers, tab generators, etc.), as well as a place to list translation errors. Not really strategy-related, but important and interesting info about the card nonetheless.

35
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Wiki moving into the 2nd Edition
« on: January 11, 2017, 02:05:54 am »
Here's a shot at updating a card page with an updated Alternate versions section, renamed to Versions. I included all the version information there that seemed relevant, including a more expanded section on foreign language card info and also removed the "In other languages" section. Also added an image of the Shuffle iT card:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/User:Dbclick/Masquerade

For new card wordings that haven't been sent off to printing, we can add an entry to the table with a note that the new wording isn't final. I'm still in favor of keeping the main image and card text at the top of the page be the latest printed one.

Let me know what you think (especially wero). When or if it's good enough, we can change the actual page and start making similar edits to the other card pages.

36
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Wiki moving into the 2nd Edition
« on: January 10, 2017, 03:29:00 am »
    Just my 2 cents:

    • The main card images should represent the most recent physically published version in English (with obvious exceptions if the card isn't yet published in English). I'm okay with finalized images/PDFs from Donald/Jay for the new cards for now, since it will take a while to get reliably get physical copies of those in the hands of wiki members that can scan them.
    • The card pages need a new section or something to show revisions to the card (maybe call it "Revisions")? This should list all prior texts of the card and notes on any functional changes (like for Masquerade, Scheme, Possession, etc), and how the card was released. Include images of those revisions that are published where possible. I hope we'll end up with no more than 2 revisions for each card, so this should be a short section. This would replace or supersede the "First Edition" section on some of the pages. Alternately this info could be in an expanded version of the "Alternate Versions" section. I think nailing this down will avoid confusion in the long term. I'm more than happy to mock something like this up on the Discussion page of some card for review (maybe on Tactician or Masquerade).
    • How final are the wordings on the new Dominion Online? I assume all of them haven't been finalized and set off for publishing sans Hinterlands, but I could be wrong. I assume only Donald might know the answer to that one... I feel like we should only put finalized wordings on the Wiki as the main card text in the infobox, and only if we can get an image (of a card that is published or ready for publication). Having the image not match the text just looks bad. More up-to-date wordings that are still in flux or unpublished could go in a Revisions/Versions section until finalized and an image is acquired. Also the images from the new Dominion Online are a great candidates to add to the Alternate Versions section, but not as the main card image.

    Thoughts?

37
Just got my copy - here's a rundown of the interesting points:
  • Box is the matte box, same as the Adventures box and Dominion and Intrigue reprintings, not the glossy box from Altenberger.
  • As mentioned, cards feel fine, and have the grain the correct direction this time.
  • Cards don't seem to have any significant difference from Altenberger ones, and coloration on the backs seems fine. I don't have a caliper to measure thickness.
  • Debt tokens have a little 1 on them and are copper colored, not reddish.
  • New victory tokens are thicker than the old ones and don't have as rounded of edges Also they don't have the outer bezel and the shield design is more stretched across the face. The design is indented instead of raised and they don't feel like they have as much texture as the old ones. Mixing the new and old ones will be immediately noticeable. Edit: Only 5 VP and 1 VP tokens are indented. 2 VP and Debt tokens are raised, but not nearly as much as the prior VP tokens. 2 VP tokens also have the outer bezel, but much thinner and still the sharper edges and is the same thickness as the others.
  • New 5 point victory tokens are significantly bigger. This is mostly good so you won't mix them up with the 1s as much, but slightly sad because they don't match the Prosperity ones.
  • My inlay came bent and damaged :'(. This is clearly not the case for all copies, as Wero's isn't. Inlay is same size as all prior ones and is made of the same not-as-glossy material as the Adventures one.
  • Rulebook has the Empires logo off-center, as I previously reported. RGG has already corrected this for the online copy.
  • As previously mentioned, Royal Blacksmith is out of alphabetical order on the inlay (and in the order the cards came shrink-wrapped).
  • Edit: The tokens come in only one larger zip-top bag instead of two smaller ones, which would have been nice (one for VP and one for Debt).

Fortunately, the cards seem to be fine, and that is what counts.  :D

38
...
Rocks 2/10
Why would you ever buy this piece of trash ammo that gains more trash ammo.
...

FTFY

39
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 08, 2016, 11:04:49 am »
Mountain Pass is between turns because of Possession. It has a maximum bid because the "correct" bid might be "unbounded."

I don't understand why that's a problem.  Tokens aren't physically limited, and frankly "you can't buy anything for the remainder of the game" is as easy to keep track of as 40 debt tokens is, isn't it?

I guess the difficult case is where the "correct" answer is somewhere in the 100s or 1000s and you don't want to wait for someone to make those calculations.

There can be a case where the correct bid is basically infinite. Having a bid limit seems a lot more elegant than Player 1 bidding Graham's Number, and player 2 bidding Graham's Number +1.
Having a bid limit has the upside of making it crystal clear how much to bid to make sure you're winning the bid.
This may prevent analysis paralysis; oh should I bid 13 or 23 or 103? Just bid 40 if you desperately want to win.


As long as you have a deck set up to where you don't need to buy anything the rest of the game, such as with Remodel-family cards, gainers etc., the correct bid would be infinite, since you don't care how much debt you have. Having a limit of 40 is nice since you can just say "I win the bid" and gloat as you take the whole pile of debt tokens (since there are 40 of those) rather than argue about the semantics of number theory and writing down that you have a googolplex+2 debt tokens or some such (yuck ptui, indeed).

40
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 07, 2016, 05:37:39 pm »
(And, when you think about it, this is likely why Mountain Pass was worded in such a way. Otherwise, the person to the left of the current player just bids <40> and gets 8VP for free.)

That's precisely why we had the question when playing the game.

Also, I believe it's worded to trigger between turns so that each player is free to make their own choice during the bidding. Otherwise, when possessing you I just have you pass on your bid and I take the +8VP for 1 Debt in a 2 player game.

41
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 07, 2016, 04:58:28 pm »
Attempted a proxy game with Mountain Pass and Tax and this question came up (as it could have changed the outcome):

If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)

Someone asked if Donate would still happen if you bought it when piling out the game, and Donald said no. Also, if you pile out the game in the process of trashing cards to Donate (e.g. Hunting Grounds or Catacombs), the end condition is not checked until the end of the next turn, so the game continues until at least then.

Makes sense. Posted it on the wiki.

42
Forget if this has been asked yet - does the Enchantress effect apply to extra turns other players take, such as via Outpost? Or just to the very first Action they play after you play Enchantress?

Extra turns are also "their turns", so it applies. (I think it has been asked here.)

I'm guessing Enchantress affects the first Action opponents play on each of their turns?  So if they take extra turns, the first Action they play on each of them becomes a cantrip?

Correct.

43
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 07, 2016, 04:29:56 pm »
Attempted a proxy game with Mountain Pass and Tax and this question came up (as it could have changed the outcome):

If the first Province gained is is on the same turn that triggers the end condition (e.g. 3 pile), does the Mountain Pass bidding still happen or not? (the base rules say to end the game, but the Mountain Pass says to do the bidding after that turn - which rule overrules?)

44
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Rulebook
« on: June 07, 2016, 01:23:00 am »
So much going on in those rules.  It will take a while to process.  ;D

For anyone who has the physical copy of the rulebook - does it have the Empires logo off-center like the PDF does?

45
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #2: Split Piles
« on: June 05, 2016, 02:12:06 am »
Does Catapult's Treasure type check happen before or after the trashed card lands in the trash? (since an Estate inheriting Crown would revert back to a non-Treasure once in the trash)

46
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Bonus Preview #5: Castles
« on: May 13, 2016, 03:09:33 pm »
Ok, here's estimated breakdown using the unaccounted for remaining card art.

The breakdown should be as follows:

300 Cards:
  • 24 Kingdom card piles of 10 cards each, except for castles (12 cards), 5 are the 5/5 split piles
  • 21 Landmarks
  • 13 Events
  • 0 blank cards

Here's the art breakdown for all 76 pieces of card artwork:
  • 24 pieces of art in the kingdom piles (randomizer art).
  • 21 pieces of landmark card art
  • 13 on the events
  • 8 additional for the castles (non-randomizers)
  • 24 + 21 + 13 + 8 = 66 art, leaving 10 for the split piles (which take 2 additional each)
  • 24 + 21 + 13 + 8 + 10 = 76 art

Assuming I'm correct, that's
  • 16 unrevealed Landmarks
  • 10 unrevealed Events
  • 2 unrevealed Split piles (with the 2 cards in each)
  • 8 unrevealed regular Kingdom cards (1 card per pile)
  • 38 total unrevealed cards/landmarks/events (we've seen 32 so far)

47
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 06:07:23 pm »
This is very interesting. Not sure i like the coloring though.

It kind of looks like someone took a green Crayola marker to the Events.

To be fair, Dominion is running out of colors. And let's be honest, you really want something close to green, given the Victory point tie-in. Kind of makes me wish the VP tokens were a green metal...
White, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Grey, Brown, and Tan are all taken and Black doesn't work. Cyan, Magenta, and Pink would look weird, so Dark Green/Teal it is.


48
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 05:03:13 pm »
- It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
...
Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

I am too lazy to do the math, but does the breakdown look reasonable if you assume that each split pile is still just one piece of art?  I suggest this because the art for each half of the split pile are really crops of the same piece of art, which should be the randomizer art.  It's easy to see on Gladiator/Fortune and not too tough to figure out for the other two pairs.

If you look closely at the Rocks/Catapult art, you can see that the Rocks art background is actually a zoomed in part of the background art of Catapult (look for that row of 6 or so horizontal dots near the bushes in both images). I assume the randomizer has these composited in some way, since the Catapult would appear in the Rocks art and vice-versa if they were only one image. Hence, 3 total pieces of art for the split piles.

49
Dominion: Empires Previews / Re: Empires Previews #4: Landmarks
« on: May 12, 2016, 04:47:34 pm »
At last, Landmarks. And five of them because why not. There are twenty-one of them so there are still plenty you haven't seen.

So, the card breakdown most likely as follows, given that there are 21 events Landmarks and 76 pieces of card art:

300 Cards:
  • 24 Kingdom card piles of 10 cards each, 8 are split piles
  • 21 Landmarks
  • 15 Events
  • 0 blank cards

This makes 300 cards even (with 11 cards per kingdom pile).
Here's the breakdown for the art:
  • 24 pieces of art in the kingdom piles.
  • 21 pieces of landmark card art
  • 15 is the number of events needed to get 300 cards (using 25 kingdom piles only leaves you with 4 cards left for events, which is too low).
  • 24 + 21 + 15 = 60 art, leaving 16 for the split piles
  • It takes 2 additional pieces of card art per split pile (1 for the bottom card and one for the combined randomizer, assuming that's how they work), so that's 8 split piles to make the 16 remaining card art.
  • I'm assuming no Alt-VP cards in this set, since there are already so many new ways to score and no piles with weird numbers of cards (e.g. Rats, Port).

If I'm right, that means there are:
  • 16 unrevealed Landmarks
  • 15 unrevealed Events (some of which will come up tomorrow)
  • 5 unrevealed Split piles (with the 2 cards in each)
  • 6 unrevealed regular Kingdom cards (1 card per pile)
  • 48 total unrevealed cards/landmarks/events (we've seen 21 so far)

Unless someone has a more likely breakdown.  ;)

EDIT: 23 Kingdom piles with 6 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 20 Events, and 6 Blank cards is also valid, but does seem low on the Kingdom piles and a bit high on Events (also the same with 19 Events and 7 split piles).
EDIT 2: Well, with the Events and Castles preview with 13 Events and 8 Castles card artwork, that basically makes it 24 Kingdom piles (one being Castles victory pile), 5 split piles, 21 Landmarks, 13 Events, and 0 blank cards.

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