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9076

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Combo: Chancellor/Inn

« on: January 23, 2012, 02:28:51 pm »

I can't find it, but this has been discussed before. Not sure if it had it's own thread, or was just mentioned somewhere. But I've done this on solitaire before, to get a KC, KC, Bridge, Bridge, Bridge hand.

9077

Puzzles and Challenges / SMALL money

« on: January 23, 2012, 02:04:30 pm »

Ok, so generate the absolute most possible amount of money in a single turn without having a single Treasure card in your deck. Solitaire game, it's the start of your turn and you have no Durations in play. Perfect Shuffle luck as well.

My first-thoughts solution:
Kingdom list: Grand Market, Conspirator, Bazaar, Goons, Scrying Pool, Festival, Vault, King's Court, Harvest, Mandarin.

You have 10 Scrying Pools and 10 King's Courts, 9 of every other Kingdom Card, and 1 Province, 1 Duchy, 1 Estate.

Start out with Scrying Pool in hand. Use it to draw everything except 2 Victory Cards... you now have 93 cards in hand. Play Vault, drawing the last 2 cards. Discard all but 1 Scrying Pool for $93. Repeat this process 8 more times... you now have $837.

Then play Scrying Pool (#10) to draw your entire deck again. Play KC -> KC - KC, etc (all 10 KC... you now have 19 actions you can triple-play). Triple-play 1 Mandarin, putting 3 differently-named cards on top. (On top of the 2 Victory cards that were left there). Then Triple-play 9 Harvest, then 8 Mandarin, then a Festival. This gives you... 27 Mandarin plays for 3 each, + 27 Harvest plays for 4 each, + 3 Festival plays for 2 each... = $195. So $1032 total.

You have 29 cards on your deck, and 6 actions available.

Then play every Grand Market and Conspirator. Draw 18 cards, get 36 money. Play every Festival... 16 more money, 8 more actions. Every Bazaar for 9 more actions, 9 more money, 9 more cards. $1084 money, 23 actions, 2 cards in deck, both victory.

Play every Goons for +18 money. $1102. Lots of buys.

I know this isn't completely ideal. Obviously Black Market to replace Goons would just make it insane. I'd rather not think about it, lol. Also, it would be great if I could replace Bazaar with Woodcutter or another $2, but I just didn't have enough spare actions. And you could have more Victory Cards in the deck, to discard with Vault, but it makes drawing your whole deck a lot more complicated!


TL;DR solution:
$1102, using mostly Scrying Pool and Vault.

So my solution doesn't actually quite work, as has been pointed out. Needs a minor tweak to the play rules, and another tweak to the math.

9078

Game Reports / Re: My fastest win so far ...

« on: January 23, 2012, 10:32:27 am »

(Might be a nice puzzle to find the slowest board where both players go for optimal strategy.)

Maybe something like:

Transmute
Vineyard
Secret Chamber
Pearl Diver
Scheme
Scout
Sea Hag
Feast
Saboteur
Possession

With the optimal strategy being something like Hag/Money. Maybe Ghost Ship makes this even slower, but I don't know.

I'm almost sure that Ghost Ship would force a slower game in almost any Kingdom... unless the best strategy is just to completely ignore it.

9079

Dominion Isotropic / People to NOT avoid on Isotropic!

« on: January 23, 2012, 10:19:14 am »

I just had to give a shout-out to Next time I'll win. While attempting to pass him a Copper for the Masquerade, I clicked a little too quickly and gave him a Colony. After I mentioned how it should have been a Copper, he offered to pass it back with the next Masquerade! I told him he didn't have to, but he did anyway. Great to see someone who is more interested in having fun and playing fair than just the final outcome.

9080

Rules Questions / Re: Question Regarding single card resolution (Noob)

« on: January 23, 2012, 09:52:14 am »

Actually the discarding of the cards would be an additional cost of the card that must be payed before the effect.  So you would have to discard before you would have gotten to draw any cards.  I am unsure how they word the cards now though.  I have not played MTG since 2000 but I am assuming they cleared up the ruling and wording on the cards. 

The card would enter the first in last out and priority would pass.  As the card resolves all costs would already have to be paid, in this case it would be the number to discard.  After the spell resolves the effects would follow, Draw 2 cards, then draw (X) cards depending on the number previously discarded.

Ah. I believe that if discarding is a part of the cost, then it will specifically state "as an additional cost to casting X, discard a card." Or, if it is an activated ability, rather than a spell, the "discard a card" would go before the ":", making it part of the cost. A spell could still cost one blue mana, and say "target player discards a card." In this case, discarding a card is part of the spell resolution, not part of the cost. (Even if you chose yourself as the target player.)]

But I understand the reason for the confusion now! In Dominion, there is no cost to play an action card, other than using up an available action. So actions that say to discard are not adding an additional cost to playing the card.

9081

Game Reports / Re: Duchess is great in this game!

« on: January 22, 2012, 04:21:10 pm »

Strategy question for you... You talk about losing the Scrying Pool split; in my experience with Scrying Pool decks, I tend to stop buying them after I have 4 or 5... this has done quite well for me. Do you really want as many as you can get, or at least 6?

9082

Rules Questions / Re: Question Regarding single card resolution (Noob)

« on: January 22, 2012, 03:53:37 pm »

Thank you...that clears up a bunch of stuff.  Coming from a TCG background this is much different.

Doesn't Magic have the exact same rule? (You do everything on the card from top to bottom).

9083

Game Reports / Fortune Teller of the Year

« on: January 22, 2012, 03:30:27 pm »

So I'm playing a Scrying Pool deck, and my opponent plays a Governor on his turn:

Code: [Select]

   --- goshen's turn 16 ---
   goshen plays a Governor.
   ... getting +1 action.
   ... drawing 3 cards.
   ... GendoIkari draws 1 card.
   goshen plays a Governor.
   ... getting +1 action.
   ... goshen trashes a Gold.
   ... goshen gains a Province.
So my draw pile is almost empty, and I get an awesome idea...

Code: [Select]

... GendoIkari trashes a Potion.
   ... GendoIkari gains an Inn.
   ... ... shuffling 13 cards into the draw pile.
Ha! The Scrying Pool in my hand will now draw every action in my deck for the greatest turn ever! But then...

Code: [Select]

   goshen plays a Fortune Teller.
   ... getting +$2.
   ... GendoIkari reveals a Festival, a Festival, a Festival, a Scrying Pool, a Festival, a Spice Merchant, a Fortune Teller, an Inn, a Scrying Pool, a Festival, a Festival, a Fortune Teller, a Scrying Pool, and a Province.
   ... GendoIkari puts the Province back onto the deck.
   ... GendoIkari discards 2 Fortune Tellers, 3 Scrying Pools, an Inn, a Spice Merchant, and 6 Festivals.

Noooo!!!!!!! And they say Fortune Teller is weak!

So it ended up not mattering at all, as I still Scrying Pool'd my way to the last 2 Provinces on the next turn.

9084

Game Reports / Crazy green set

« on: January 20, 2012, 06:48:11 pm »

Just finished this:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/20/game-20120120-154048-a034664f.html

What an odd set! I figured the best thing would probably just be Island + BM, but one time when I had 5 I figured it couldn't really hurt to pick up a Saboteur since I had no other actions I wanted to play. But then my opponent chose Saboteur as well... and from there it just spiraled into madness. He played Saboteur a total of 16 times throughout the game, sometimes with the help of Golem. Towards the end, I started to get lucky, and his Saboteurs started helping me almost every time he played them... gaining me extra VP with every trash!

I don't think either of us necessarily played optimally, but it was quite an interesting setup!

9085

Rules Questions / Re: Reveal question

« on: January 20, 2012, 12:45:51 pm »

That's exactly an argument in favor of ALWAYS waiting for the reaction to happen before moving on, then you can't use whether you're being waited for or not to gauge what's going to happen.

Not that it almost ever matters, but that's a "flaw" in Isotropic... when a player plays an attack, or a Tournament, (or even just buys an Embassy, giving out a silver), if the other player has a reaction to that, Iso will let the first player know that, because it will say "waiting for player." This gives the player information about the other player's hand that he wouldn't otherwise have (unless the other player chose to reveal the reaction anyway).

9086

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: BIG money

« on: January 20, 2012, 12:40:43 pm »

I think this basically comes down to the largest handsize puzzle discussed here and here. I think just asking what is the most money you can get with a 5-card hand and no actions is better. Problem is, you still have to discount Philosopher's Stone, because then it's just a question of what is the largest deck possible. I think your answer is almost correct for that, but you seem to have forgotten the $10 from Ventures themselves... so $75.

9087

Dominion Isotropic / Re: bug: Royal Seal and Mandarin?

« on: January 19, 2012, 04:53:48 pm »

I think that it's correct, actually.

At the moment you bought a Mandarin, 2 effects triggered simultaneously. Mandarin's "when you gain this" and Royal Seal's "when you gain a card."

You should then get to choose which effect to deal with first. Either put Mandarin on your deck, or put all treasures on your deck. Either way, you should get to do both.

The fact that Royal Seal isn't in play at the moment that you could choose to put Mandarin on your deck doesn't matter. What matters is that it was in play when you gained Mandarin.

9088

Rules Questions / Re: Remodel question

« on: January 19, 2012, 10:44:41 am »

A bit of an aside from the actual question that was asked (and has already been answered), but if your opponent was looking to just trash cards and not gain anything back, he should have just bought a Chapel in the first place instead of the Remodel.

I think that buying Remodel to trash Copper and get a Chapel definitely qualifies for the Rube Goldberg Dominion challenge... especially if he then uses Chapel to trash Remodel!

9089

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: MIT Mystery Hunt Dominion Puzzle

« on: January 18, 2012, 09:35:20 am »

After that puzzle, I ask myself, if it would be nice to have a standardized short notation for Dominion turns like in Chess ("e2-e4")
That would have the profit, we could log games relatively quick in real life games too.
And after a little time if you're already accostumed with the notation, a short notation may even be easier to read, as it is shorter and maybe more clearly arranged.
I think the biggest problem would be define short codes for 157 cards instead of 6 in chess. Maybe we define only short codes for the base cards and redefine fitting letters to the kingdom cards individually like in this puzzle. I mean, even it was the first time reading it, I could read it really fast and if I would have known what each card is, it would be even easier.

What do you think? Maybe this is just a crazy idea, I don't know.

Well I don't think you can redefine letteres for each Kingdom... you would have to have standardized notation. If you use 2 letters to describe a card, that allows for up to 676 different cards. However, you'd have to use meaningless letters for many of the cards. I would allow up to 3 letters per card. That keeps it short, while allowing you to actually tell what card it is. All the base cards would be just 1 letter, though. C, S, G, E, D, P. Curse would have to be 2 letters though.

9090

Game Reports / Re: Mining in a Colony Game: Don't Buy Silver?

« on: January 17, 2012, 03:11:15 pm »

I don't agree with the idea that adding a Bishop would be bad because it would just add another terminal... because the Bishop should be used to trash one or more of those other terminals for VP!

9091

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's Missing (With a twist)?

« on: January 17, 2012, 10:34:43 am »

The three are the only cards, that gives your opponent an opion to do something when you play the card and be rewarded when you do/punshied when you don't.

Not sure that's right.  Vault doesn't punish the opponent for failing to discard two cards.

I think Biderman may be looking for something different:

Militia, Cutpurse, Goons = List of cards with the text, "Each other player discards [cards from their hands]."  Whereas Mountebank and Vault have the text, "Each other player may discard [cards from their hands.]"

Honorable mentions to the Militia/Cutpurse/Goons list are Sea Hag and Jester, which also state "Each other player discards..." but involve discards from the tops of the opponents' decks, rather than from their hands.

That would explain the word list, instead of the word card. Also, you forgot Torturer.

9092

Other Games / Played Kingdom Builder

« on: January 16, 2012, 09:56:14 am »

So I had a chance to play Kingdom Builder this weekend... absolute win! Another great game by Donald X. Like Dominion, you have many different possible setups, each that change the dominate strategies available. I seem to be pretty good at it, because I won both of the games I played, in 4-player games with 2 people who had played before. Definitely one that I want to add to my collection!

9093

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's Missing (With a twist)?

« on: January 16, 2012, 09:47:49 am »

Thanks. I did know about "what's missing" type puzzles and what they are. I just was confused by the wording in the OP, asking for a "list." I think I see now that it was just a mistake, looks like he meant to say "card" instead.

And I always suck at these types of puzzles, I don't think I've ever figured out an answer on my own.

9094

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's Missing (With a twist)?

« on: January 15, 2012, 12:52:55 pm »

Ok, I'm lost... not only do I not understand the answer given, or the honorable mention given, but I don't quite understand what the question is asking for. It sounds like it's asking for a list? And, I'm guessing that misspelling Mountebank wasn't on purpose?

9095

Help! / Re: Was I a victim of BM?

« on: January 15, 2012, 12:49:54 pm »

Ok, so it was mostly a case of me being stupid. Would you guys open Silver Silver or Silver Spy?

I'm guessing that in most cases, Silver/Silver is going to always beat Silver/Spy. The thing with Spy is that it doesn't increase your purchasing power at all. This means that it is no help whatsoever in getting to $5 or $6. It might help a tiny bit if you can discard your own Estate with it, but in the first reshuffle that's only a 3/11 or so chance. And of course it can help early if it happens to allow you to discard one of your opponent's first-round buy, but again that's not a great chance of happening.

9096

Help! / Pirate Ship beats double Jack???

« on: January 14, 2012, 09:06:41 pm »

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120113-220158-45765bd3.html

Ok, so my opponent opens Pearl Diver / Pirate Ship (on a 3/4). "Yay, easy victory for me!" I think. 13 turns later, he buys his 4th and final Province to beat me by his Estates.

So what the heck happened here? Did I just get horrible luck, or was Pirate Ship actually strong on this board? I mean, I've seen Pirate Ship be great if you have +Actions, +Buys, and especially Tactician... purchasing 3 or 4 and playing several per turn. But we had none of those thing!

I should mention that I don't know how to play double Jack. I've never seen any articles talking about it specifically, such as when to trash one Jack with the other, etc. But even so...

9097

2011 / Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four

« on: January 13, 2012, 04:58:25 pm »

I voted manzi based purely on the fact that he has never been pushed to a game 7 yet.

Also, just noticed that manzi is the only one of the final four that I've ever played against. And I won, handily.

9098

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's Missing?

« on: January 13, 2012, 04:36:00 pm »

Woodcutter
Possession
Walled Village

Only cards with 2 sets of double-letters?

9099

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Deadly Border Village

« on: January 13, 2012, 12:24:00 pm »

Not having read the other spoilered stuff:

Highways and Copper were the two empty piles. She had Border Village costing $1, so she was forced to gain a curse, making her lose.

I'm dumb. It has to be Quarry because otherwise everything 5 or lower is also reduced...

If you really wanted to be contrived, then your solution can work!

First off, except for Highway, BV, and Ironworks all Kindgom cards cost $6 or more. At the start of her turn, Golds and Duchies were empty. During her turn, she used Kings Court + Ironworks to empty out the Ironworks, Estates, Silvers, and Coppers. She also plays 4 Highways (BV only needs to cost $2, not $1). So during her buy phase the Curses are the only legal thing to pick up.

You can replace Ironworks with Workshop or Feast; and because of Highways she could have emptied any number of the piles during her action phase.

9100

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan expansion: Wedding (early design days, some playtesting done)

« on: January 13, 2012, 11:46:10 am »

Mysterious Gift could be suicide on a fair number of boards... any board with no way to trash it, but ways to reveal it (which I think are a great number of boards). Basically, if it's in your deck, and there is anything out there that reveals cards (including any "reveal your hand" effects, including Bureaucrat, Cutpurse, etc), then you risk pretty much losing your turn.

On a board with a way to trash it early, or no "reveal" cards, it's a really powerful opener. If you had 5/2, now you have 5/5. If you had 3/4, now you have 6/4... with Goons around, that's crazy.

Basically, I think it would be either way overpowered, or worthless, depending on the board. I really love the idea, though. Just thinking about the possible options with it is great. Just not sure how to make it balanced.