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376

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: March 02, 2017, 01:27:44 am »

Perpetual Economy Engine
Event - $3

+1 Buy
If you played an Engineer, Alchemist, or Laboratory this turn, +$5 and +1 Buy

===================================

Tic Tac Toe
Landmark
The first player ends his turn, he takes the victory tile
At the end of the game, the player with the victory tile gains 1,000 VP

377

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: March 02, 2017, 01:14:01 am »

Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.

Personally I'm a fan of the fully text-based version of Dominion:


You are sitting at a table. In front of you are piles of cards, consisting of Village, Smithy, Militia, Moat, Festival, Witch, Cellar, Laboratory, Bureaucrat, Gardens, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, and Curse.

> Look at hand
Your hand consists of Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Estate.

> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $1 to spend.

> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $2 to spend.

> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $3 to spend.

> Buy Silver
You buy and gain a Silver. You have $0 to spend.

> End Turn
You discard your hand and cards in play. You draw 5 new cards. It is your opponent's turn.

...
...
...
...

Your opponent has played 5 Coppers and purchased a Witch. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

> 

I prefer this version too.  When I play IRL Dominion, we mostly just ask what the player did on his turn to summarize.  I make quite good use of the game log with Androminion and Race For The Galaxy.  Unfortunately, it seems folks who are new to card games prefer GUIs and nearly all graphics   Dominion on BSW.com didn't have logs, which I wasn't a fan of.

378

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: March 01, 2017, 10:27:24 am »

Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.

Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.

The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version.  It had nothing to do with Isotropic.

Is there a citation for this?

isotropic was a fan-made version. Like other fan-made versions, we gave permission for it to be up until we had an official version, and no longer.

We asked Doug Z. if we wanted the job of making the official version; he didn't.

isotropic itself was never in the running to be the official version; it did not have the necessary pretty/friendly interface. Yes ShuffleiT currently does not have that interface either.

Thanks for the reply!  I couldn't remember if it was someone from the Dom. team who made a comment about the interface, or just 'some other user'

However, the ShuffleIt interface at least looks like you are playing a card game.  Isotropic didn't.  Really, I don't have much trouble with playing on ShuffleIt, and most of the trouble I have stems from needing to click in the log area.  There is improvement to be done, but I find the implementation playable.

Another issue, however, is that Dominion is by nature a complex game that can be intimidating for newcomers.  If you sit someone who has never played before with a game including durations, victory tokens, the tavern mat and Adventures tokens (+1 action, etc.) I'm willing to bet that their reaction would be that the game to unfriendly to beginners too.

It comes back to the fact that, yes, there are improvements needed, but at least part of the battle is for each player to learn the interface and the cards.

It's all a tradeoff... not having actual cards does make the game run more smoothly, has a smaller footprint not having to store the card art, and allows you to fit more cards on the screen at once.  Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.

379

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Favorite preset? Least favorite preset? Most played preset?

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:57:05 am »

Tomb of the Rat King.

Castle | Chariot Race | Storeroom
Death Cart | Fortress | Rats | Sacrifice
Legionary | Pillage
City Quarter

Shelters
Advance
Tomb

380

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Favorite preset? Least favorite preset? Most played preset?

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:55:39 am »

With empires, I absolutely hated "basic intro" and my dad said something to the effect of, "are you sure this is the BASIC intro?"

Patrician/Emporium
Castles | Chariot Race | Farmers Market
Sacrifice | Villa
Forum | Legionary
Engineer | City Quarter

Wedding
Tower

Edit: also, Donald has said in the past that he doesn't really put that much thought into the recommended sets, so I wouldn't necessarily call them "curated."

Curated does seem to be overkill.  Still, it seems they put some thought into them.  It's not like they used a random card generator, or threw darts on a wall to create these sets.

381

Rules Questions / Re: Quest

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:49:47 am »

I can see my opponent discards 6 cards (counting her hand), discards an Attack (looking at the top card of her discard pile). What about 2 Curses? I cannot check whether she really discards a Curse and a Curse. The first card is hidden.
Of course, I won't doubt my friend and other players in the competition, and I won't play foul, but this is a kind of accountability problems, isn't it?
What should we do? Ask to reveal all of them? Or check their discard pile?

You are correct, there is an accountability problem. In practice it shouldn't matter, because why would they be unwilling to show you the other Curse? I mean if they won't, they're either cheating or a jerk. In a friendly game, if they won't show you the other Curse, you do not want to be playing with them.

Classic accountability issues like old Throne Room can be solved in tournaments by asking the judge to confirm that the play is legal. In this case that's just ludicrous; the only information given away by the Curse is the fact that they're not cheating. Still if that's who you're dealing with, call the judge to confirm.

I've seen some of the worst rules lawyers ever whom would not budge, with an equally adamant opposing party who wouldn't give way either.  In such extreme cases, the game just simply comes to an end.

382

Let's Discuss ... / Re: empires: tax

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:36:47 am »

Still have problems utilizing this one.  I'll pay $2 leftover, or $2 with 1 buy and nothing better to do to Tax a pile that I know I won't go for.

The start of the game definitely has an interesting "game of chicken" going on, as some players will lean towards letting other players take on the debt instead.  Last but not least, this also nudges players toward Events, as those remain duty free.

383

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Uninteresting Moments in Dominion

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:22:52 am »

$2... no buy

384

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: February 28, 2017, 12:21:04 am »

Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.

Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.

The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version.  It had nothing to do with Isotropic.

Is there a citation for this?

385

Dominion General Discussion / Re: I let my friend pick the entire kingdom...

« on: February 27, 2017, 03:51:55 am »

I played some Dominion Intrigue 1st edition with my friend IRL the other day.  This was the monstrosity of a board he chose.




This is a board that can ruin friendships...

Eh... closest thing we have to Dominion: Diplomacy indeed!

386

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is Your Rule of Thumb for Comparing VP Tokens to Victory Cards

« on: February 27, 2017, 03:50:27 am »

I generally value 1 less card at a "1 less VP hit".  Here, I'll trash Provinces if it's early game via Bishop, as 5 VP tokens is close enough to the 6pts the Province was worth.  However, I only do this if I have nothing better to trash. I still go for Estates, Shelters, and Coppers first.  If there's a higher cost card that's no longer useful (like Young Witch, Sea Hag, or Potion I suppose), then may as well clear that up while converting it to VP.  If it's later in the game, I won't really do this, as the impact on my deck is getting to be negligible.

If Goons, I'll often buy a Copper if it means getting 2 VP per buy.  Of course, not all games have branch actions, and using TR or Kings Court doesn't multiply the VP tokens you get per buy.

I agree with the post on Monument... it's more so a supplemental, as I'm sure your opponents will be able to keep pace by buying the higher scoring cards (esp. if it's a P/C game... 10pts per Colony!), or integrating Monuments into their own strategy.

Another nice thing is sometimes the VP is guaranteed, whereas in order to buy the Victory card, that's luck of what I end up drawing.

================

And then Empires is a whole can of worms on its own.  I bring this up b/c I believe the better way to go about this is to address each card/Event/Landmark, covering a few interactions/synergies where appropriate.

Also brought up in another post, it can be worth buying a Copper if it gets you 2 VP.

Other cases... instead of buying a Province, buy a Gold for $8 so you can trigger 2 VP off Basilica.  The Gold is sort of like a souped up Harem (whereas that was 2 VP and produces 2 coins, this produces 3 coins and is "worth 2 VP").  Ditto with Arena... I'd rather not draw into dead cards.  Just discard it for 2 VP.  Battlefield has gotten me to buy Victory cards like Estates and Duchies earlier than not as the extra 2 VP per each of them does provide more bang for the buck.

For $7, a Wedding is nicer than a Duchy early on for sure.  Later, it can be nice to buy it if the Duchies are out and alternatives to getting pts aren't that great.

387

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Don't Buy Rats Unless You Can Trash Them Later

« on: February 27, 2017, 03:35:29 am »

Seriously though.

They need a promo card just for this....
Cats!

388

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Replayability Factor

« on: February 26, 2017, 11:51:02 pm »

Divide the final answer by 1,000 and you're still good to go.  That's about the number of "unique enough" games to suit a typical style.  For example, if you swap out Woodcutter for Chancellor, it can make no difference whatsoever.  Plus, I did enjoy replaying some of the same Kingdom cards just to see how an alternative path works out (of which some Kingdoms can have 3 distinct ways to go for example).

Otherwise, you reach a number where it's impractical due to not being able to hit that many plays anyways, unless you play the game for a living.  Closest I'd reckon would be the play testers, and even they may not be quite there.

389

Dominion General Discussion / Favorite preset? Least favorite preset? Most played preset?

« on: February 26, 2017, 11:32:26 pm »

I'm guessing First Game is the most popular since it often gets used as the intro game to the series, whether if it's just base game, or even if expansions happen to be available.
Cellar, Moat
Village, Woodcutter, Workshop
Militia, Remodel, Smithy
Market, Mine

Followed by Big Money as an immediately follow up to First Game.
Chapel, Chancellor
Bureaucrat, Feat, Moneylender, Throne Room
Laboratory, Market, Mine, Adventurer


I know many do full random to explore even more combos, but I'm interested in the ones as curated in the rulebooks.

390

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Bandit Fort hates Bandit lol

« on: February 26, 2017, 11:12:43 pm »

Second the statement about not being too afraid of BF.  I played a BF game and build a monster engine, but was too scared to buy Gold and Silver (I think 1 silver), then found that I had no payload, where my opponent bought at least 4 S/G (don't remember exactly), and was double provincing against my single province turns for the win.

The heck with Bandit Fort... I've seen this even with Thief.  One 3p game, we were all afraid to buy Silver and Gold that we stagnated.  Someone finally bit the bullet, and even though Silver and Gold were Thieved, it still pushed us forward.

In a 4p game, the guy who complained about losing a lot of Gold was also the guy who won 

391

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Uninteresting Moments in Dominion

« on: February 26, 2017, 10:34:04 pm »

Someone plays Thief.  I tell him Moat and Gold.  He curses.  I have to correct him saying I flipped up a Moat and Gold, not that I'm revealing it from my hand.

392

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: February 26, 2017, 10:27:24 pm »

Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.

Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.

393

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: February 20, 2017, 02:01:58 am »

However, from a user perspective, Shuffle iT is also a way to get an offline version vs. AI

Well, maybe. I mean it's certainly on their list, but I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch. Making an offline version on par with what MF had (with campaigns, several good AIs, etc.) could conceivably be much more work than everything they've done so far put together. So unless they actually hire other people, I'm honestly not expecting an offline version this year.

To be clear, I have no insider info. I'm just a pessimist when it comes to Shuffle iT.

I don't doubt that MF's hearts are in the right place, but I too feel like they've got a lot to take on for a mere 2-person team.  Alas, I don't know if they can hire more people, as some have said, having anything more than a 2-person dev. team goes up exponentially.

As for MF's version, I do recall they had AI opponents and campaigns, but was it ever available OFF line?  I still recall the complaints that folks downloaded the game onto their iPads, got onto a plane, and then were disappointed to find out that they did need a constant internet connection to play the game.

394

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: How do we like the new version of Dominions n online?

« on: February 19, 2017, 08:20:36 pm »

It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.

What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.

Well, the important thing here is Donald X and Rio Grande Games weren't happy with MF, citing issues of hassles and trust that they simply did not want to deal with anymore (or something to that sort... they understandably didn't leave a lot of details).  When the people who have control over the product aren't content, that should be the end of that.

However, from a user perspective, Shuffle iT is also a way to get an offline version vs. AI, and unlike MF who took 5 years to what I'm told wasn't very far, this dev has done more in less time.

395

Variants and Fan Cards / Cards and mechanics that'd work great in digital format, but not IRL?

« on: February 14, 2017, 11:56:10 pm »

Any cards, mechanics, and ideas that would work great in digital format, but would be impractical to do IRL?  This can include too much bookkeeping, stuff that would be too cost prohibitive, or otherwise impossible with the physical version.

Oh, one thing we actually did have was unverifiable claims.  Namely, Throne Room that says you need need to play an action card from your hand, but didn't have to reveal your hand to prove otherwise.  IIRC, another card was like this, probably also touched up with the 2nd edition wording.


As for other stuff...
1) cards that are assigned variable attributes and text on variable factors.  For example, what turn # you purchased them, how many Provinces have been purchased, are left, how many empty piles are left (City and Poacher deal with memory issues by just going with how many current empty supply piles there are, not when it was purchased), how many coins you paid to buy them, how many +Buys or +Actions you had, how many cards you had left in hand.

The card text can be written with the appropriate text at the time of purchase.

2) Specific cards that do extra things.  In an IRL game, you could take a sharpie and mark a card (making this change permanent, but work with me), or slip in a piece of paper if you sleeve your cards.  These cards have extra bonuses or penalties based on some other ruleset governing them.

396

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Alternative Kingdom setup rules

« on: February 14, 2017, 11:31:39 pm »

For tournament play...
Both 4p games...

1) 2 randomizers (cards) are dealt face up in front of the table.  These 2 will be 2 of the cards in the Kingdom.  Then, each player is then dealt 5 randomizers.  They each pick 2 to put out in front of them face down (so that all 4 players can select them simultaneously), while the other 3 are put back in the box.  1, 2, 3, flip them face up.  2 cards times 4 players + the 2 randomizers on the table = 10 Kingdom cards.

One game, mucho cards in the $5 range.  Next game, mucho cards in the $2 range, since it appears we all got 'panicky' about having too many expensive cards and not enough cheap ones

2) 14 Randomizers are dealt face up in the center.  Going in reverse order from the last player, (or was it in turn order from 1st player?), each player vetos one card so that after all players have vetoed one card, you're down to 10.

This way also makes the game take longer, as this beginning setup part is a game on its own.

other ideas, untried...
1) Thunderstone-style
Shuffle any Victory cards into the "Dungeon Deck".  The "Dungeon" contains 3 slots, from slot #0 through slot #2.  Purchasing the cards in slot #1 and #2 each 2 and 4 extra coins.  If you spend a +buy, then you can get a $2 discount on slot #1 and slot #2, and $4 discount on slot #2 of you spend +2 Buys

All the rest of the cards, non-Victory ones, form the standard Kingdom layout.

2) Ascension-style
Have a Center Row of 6 cards.  When a card is purchased, it is immediately replaced another one form the "Portal Deck".  The Always On cards include Silver and Duchies, but no Gold nor Provinces.  Gold and Provinces are mixed in the CR.  Keep tabs on when the appropriate number of Provinces or other Victory cards have been purchased

3) Nightfall-style
8 cards in the Kingdom.
Each player has 2 "private Kingdom supply piles" only they can purchase from.  For simple game, make this random or a preset.  For advance games, follow the drafting rules in that rulebook.

397

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card

« on: February 14, 2017, 10:59:21 pm »

Opponent...
$5, $8, $5 $8


You...
$6, $7, $6, $7 



Opponent opens 5/2 with Witch
You buy Swindler and Swindle his Witch into a Duchy
[near end of game...] Swindle that Duchy back into a Witch

398

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Leaving the Table vs. Formally Resigning

« on: February 14, 2017, 10:46:03 pm »

If someone actually did have to take a break (e.g. grab water, bathroom, deal with kids, etc.) a pause button would help to let others know that that person will return (but even then, that should have a timer too if longer).

399

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Obelisk

« on: February 02, 2017, 03:12:06 am »

Secret Secret History: Originally, Donald wanted to name this Brothel, for the Harem flavor tie-in. For some reason RGG didn't want that. So instead he went for a phallus symbol.

By this scenario, I find it odd that Torturer and Harem were still OK-ed.

Obelisk haremizes one Action pile in the game. As we know from Harem, adding 2 VP is roughly worth $3.

I see what you did there

400

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Obelisk

« on: February 02, 2017, 03:06:43 am »

If you're looking for creative methods, then take a photo of the setup, print it out, mount it on a dartboard, and see what hits!

By the way, is there an official ruling as to what happens if there is no Action card in the supply?

Obelisk does nothing in that case. Everybody feels sad, but then they get to play a game of Dominion, so the sadness is at least brief.

Honestly, I'd be fine with just picking a new Landmark to replace that.

By the way, is there an official ruling as to what happens if there is no Action card in the supply?

Don't be so pedantic!  When is that ever going to happen?

If you play all 37 kajillion combination of Kingdom cards!