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76
Dominion General Discussion / Best strategy in this tableau?
« on: August 05, 2013, 08:13:40 pm »
No shelters, no plats.

Cache, Market, Rogue, Ill-gotten gains
Throne Room, Silk Road, Spy
Woodcutter, Sage
Lighthouse

What I actually did was somewhat modified by trying to go easy on a newbie.

IGG goes through Lighthouse, and can often be the answer to something like this.  But one strat for beating that is de-syncing the IGG pile and the curse pile, which is possible here, although difficult.  Spy can support a Rogue to try to find an IGG, desyncing the curses by one.  If you are super lucky, by 2.  You can slow the IGG players 3 pile even more if you pick between Duchies and Silk Roads based on whichever one the rusher is trying to empty.  I think IGG rush is not quite the answer. 

I think you do want some IGGs, but you want them later.  I think you definitely pick up a Market because picking up Lighthouses is pretty sweet.  And I think you want to get like, 2 Provinces, maybe 3, then after that, start buying Coppers, IGGs, and Silky Roads. 

But if your opponent tries to IGG rush, you punish him using Sage, Spy, Throne Room, and Rogue to desync the IGG stack and steal victory cards.  Another important factor is that it's hard for the IGG player to pick up lighthouses, although Rogue is the best terminal.

77
Innovation General Discussion / Figures with no Echoes is the best
« on: August 02, 2013, 03:38:34 pm »
Figures adds content to base.  But it does something more important than that.  It actually balances base, fixing the issues that often funneled decisions in base.

Base is very much about controlling the first three achievements.  The disappointing thing as you get better at base, is, you learn that your early plays are pretty much identical to computer code that was given the goal of "maximize the odds you claim the first 3 achievements."

There's some obvious reasons controlling the first three achievements is important.  But the reason that it's so good you don't want to trade them for ANY amount of techup or icon advantage has to do with some other things going on.  Pirate Code and Navigation are weak against 1's in score pile.  The only answer to 1's in score pile is Vaccination, but it gives away free techup, which is often one of the areas the early achiever sacrifices.  2's are a close runner up.  Navigation can't steal 1's, and 2's actually PROTECT you from losing 3's.  Pirate Code is really weak against score piles cushioned with 1's.  Evolution and Chemistry are hard to use without low value cards in your score pile.  Statistics punishes players who don't rely on 1's and 2's.  Both players want to score low value card early, and being the one lucky enough to achieve first by turn order or faster scorers has a really good edge.



Figures helps a lot.  The achievement action is punished by your opponent drawing a figure.  This effect usually isn't enough to deter you from taking an achievement, when given the shining opportunity.  That's not how it helps is, it now makes you think about whether achievement rush is worth it.  In base, if scores are your 2 to your opponent's five, and you have Agriculture on your board and Math in your hand, best play is to return Math and achieve Prehistory, hands down.  Now, if you return the Math, you definitely still want to achieve Prehistory.  But it's a little tougher to decide whether you want to return Math at all.    The other factors on the board would decide that, it's a more complicated decision in figures.


Later ages have better figures, which solves the issue base had with techup being too weak.  It's pretty cool to get some age powerful age 5 cards, but ages 6 and 7 are quite the no man's land.  Figures makes it a more certain thing that teching up has some reward.


Including echoes introduces balance issues similar to those of base+echoes; figures in the sand has difficulty helping fix those.  Echoes always felt like additional content that I wanted that came with balance issues I had to stomach.  Flute is an age 1 four for one, for goodness sakes.  Watermill, Almanac, and Clock all play "who's gonna draw me first" hardball long before Industrialization can even be drawn.  And I agree with the pro players that say the low age echoes cards are much more pivotal than Industrialization, but Industrialization is a one reason that toggling "add extra achievement" is little help.  These cards and several others funnel decisions by obviously being much more powerful than any base card on top, and by being leaps ahead of fellow echoes cards, even.  Figures 1-inspire for turn limit guarantees that figures never totally funnels all of the decisions (many inspire effects are humble enough not to need the limit, too). 
 

Just some stuff that was on my mind.


People say "these cards all look so OP", but I always play the skeptic until I see a card behave in a consistently powerful way.  My experiences so far have frequently left me unsure which figure to meld, and whether to ignore the figures entirely.  You can just score your figure away with Philosophy and use figures as a counterweight help for your base-based strategy if you want to. 

78
Innovation General Discussion / 502 bad gateway
« on: July 20, 2013, 11:55:18 pm »
anyone else getting that right now?

Got it in both firefox and chrome.

79
I hadn't come to the site in a long time, and was rather surprised when the number of people hanging around seemed to be more or less the same. 

Due to the "networky" effect of lobbies like this, I figured it would either die due to fading interest + difficulty in finding a game, or would grow to a larger size that more consistently pairs you with an opponent and stabilize there.


I guess one reason it might be capable of stabilizing at a lower size is because it's not competing directly with very much.  Isotropic has a unique ability to be played from internet cafes, borrowed computers, work computers, school computer labs, rather easily.  I know ksasaki plays from work a lot, iirc.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
The proportion of players who stick to base and those willing to play echoes seems similar to before.  I think that's kind of disappointing and doesn't create a good outlook for isotropic popularity.  We even have high level players like theory and yaron opting out of the expansion.  I really really really think Chris Cieslik and Chuck (the creator's name is Chuck, right? I can't remember offhand, I own a box though I swear) should consider this phenomenon in isotropic a "focus group" and approach the way they make expansions, to this game and any others, differently. 

80
General Discussion / Crappy Flash CCGs
« on: April 17, 2013, 12:51:36 pm »
They're all sucky cash grabs.... but sometimes I get hooked.  What are your favorites?  I liked Elements a lot, but eventually the grinding got too hard.

I've been playing Ederon lately.  I hate how shallow the game's mechanics are, but it doesn't have an irritating limit on how long you can play each day.  And in various other ways, it's implemented well, even if the core game mechanics themselves are a bit dull.

81
General Discussion / Uh oh
« on: April 10, 2013, 09:04:09 pm »
Apparently, due to deadlines I've been not paying attention to and juggling stuff around the wrong way, I need to give a 20 minute presentation for my Introduction to Elementary Number Theory class tomorrow.  I haven't even picked a topic.  If I don't come up with something I'll fail.  It's for a research paper, based on any advanced number theory concept (he suggested cryptography, but most things are ok).

Preferably I can include proofs or theorems in the presentation, to add value and burn time.

I'm supposed to use multiple legitimate sources.  I might have access to some online through my university somehow.

I am in dire straits and not sure where to start with this.  I was supposed to meet with my instructor a few days ago to discuss what topic I should do, but he wasn't there.  I knocked on his office door about 500 times. When I emailed he insisted that he was there, or "around" at least, all day.  Man you told me to come to your office to meet you and you weren't there anytime during a twenty minute window, <removed> me right?

Some of the topics we covered during the course is Peano's axioms, group theory, greatest common factors, least common divisors, cyclic groups, equivalence classes, well ordered principle, induction and some other things.  Those are not good topics themselves but they could give some idea of what the class was like.

I am by no means asking anyone here to do research on my behalf, I'm just having "writer's block" as far as selecting a topic.  It can't be too basic so that my audience (a graduate student and a senior) is already incredibly familiar, but not too complex to work with.  I need to be able to find multiple sources talking about it.  It needs to last 20 minutes (I'm an excellent public speaker, so that will help a bit)

82
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Dominion Battle Royale (Take Two)
« on: April 10, 2013, 07:04:29 pm »
Non-player specific game states:
Significant Depleted Piles: None.
Prizes: All
Top Knight: Sir Vander
Top Ruins: Ruined Library


Trade Route Mat: Empty
Embargoes: None

Current player: None yet.

83
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Dominion Battle Royale
« on: April 08, 2013, 10:42:49 am »
I'm going to moderate a game of Dominion Battle Royale against Hertz_Doughnut.  I plan on playing myself, though I'll still mod if someone steps in for me rather quickly.

The rules are here http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7654.msg218764#msg218764

As a rule of thumb, I will be using alphabetical ordering to deal with the identity of cards.  I'll simply use the forum's dice rolling function for draw cards.
Right this second, I'm going to test whether I can put spoiler tags around dice rolls, to avoid reading Hertz's draws.
Rolled 1d10 : 9, total 9

84
Innovation General Discussion / Base "popped": fan expansion
« on: April 02, 2013, 03:17:08 pm »
I like echoes plenty, but I like seeing what can be done without adding new rules too.  For my own amusement and to invite the fierce criticism of my peers, I'm making up my own fan expansion for brownbacked cards.

I am not 100% on how they should get included.  I like the idea of dominionesque recombination of the cards, but lousy color streaks would be a pain, unless the cards are recombined by hand, which is tedious.
What I'm leaning towards the most is having a stack of 19 cards per age, and having the age be considered empty if 9 cards remain in it.  That means returned cards are largely gone for good, so effects like Pottery can sift through poor color streaks without getting to the bottom of the stack and getting stuck with the same raw deal.
Theoretically, I'm trying to have the cards do a little bit of everything, just like the base set, so you could just play with the different set of brown backed cards all on its own.  So there's always that.

I only have age 1 untested cards so far.  Here are my beauties.
_______________________________________________________________________

AGE 1


Green

Lookout Post
[X]
[C][T][T]

T: I demand you reveal the highest card from your hand!
T: Reveal the lowest card from your hand.  Draw a card of that value.

Ramp
[T]
[T][X][T]

T: Meld two cards from your hand.

Crop Rotation
[X]
[B][L][L]

L: If your score isn't zero, draw two cards of value equal to the number of different values in your score pile.


Yellow


Ingenuity
[B]
[X][T][B]

B: Return a card with a B from your board.  Draw and meld a card of value 1 higher than the card you returned.

Storytelling
[C]
[L][X][L]

L: Tuck a card from your hand.  Draw and score a card of value equal to the card above it.

Territorialism
X
[C][T][T]

T: I demand you meld the lowest card from you score pile!
T: Score the lowest card in your hand.


Red

Messengers
X
[T][C][T]

T: Draw and reveal two 1's.  The player to your left chooses one.  Keep that one, score the other.

Staff
[C]
[C]X[T]

C: Choose one of the six icons.  You may not choose the same icon twice this dogma action. 
Draw and reveal a [1].  If it has the chosen icon, then return it, you may splay your cards of its color left, and you may repeat this dogma effect.
C: If you chose all six icons, you win the game.

Fire
X
[T][T][T]

T: I demand you return a card from your hand!


Purple


Swimming
[X]
[L][T][T]

T: Transfer a top card from your board to the board of a player with no top card of its color.  You may repeat this dogma effect.
T: I demand you transfer a top card of a color present on my board to my board if you received a card! Then I may splay that color left.


Latrine
[L]
[X][L][T]

L: Draw a [1]
L: You may return a card from your hand and draw a card of the same value.
You may return a card from your score pile.  If you do, repeat this dogma effect.


Canoe
[X]
[C][L][C]

C: Draw and reveal a [1].  Meld it if its color is not present on your board.  Otherwise, score it.



Blue

Scrolls
[X]
[C][B][B]

B: I demand you draw a [1]!
B: If any card was drawn due to the demand, draw a card of value one higher than the last card drawn due to the demand.
B: Meld the highest card in your hand.


Harvest Moon
[X]
[L][L][L]

L: I demand you score a card from your hand!
L: You may score a card from your hand.
L: Draw a card of value equal to the last card scored due to Harvest Moon.


Trading
[X]
[C][C][C]

C: Claim a standard achievement, if eligible.
C: You may return a top card from your board and draw two cards of value equal to the card returned.
C: You may return two cards of equal value from your hand and draw and meld a card of that value.



AGE 2


Blue

Modeling
[X]
[B][B][T]

B: Draw three cards, each of any value.  Return all drawn cards with no [T].

Murals
[X]
[L][B][B]

[B]: Reveal any number of cards from your hand.  Return one of them.  Draw and score a card of value equal to the number of different icons revealed.


Red

Pulley
[X]
[T][T][T]

T: Draw a [2].
T: Meld a card from your hand.

Ram
[T]
[X][B][T]

T: I demand you draw a [3], then transfer the highest card from your hand to my hand!


Yellow

Assimilation
[C]
[L][X][C]

[C]: I demand you draw a [1]!  If you have no [9] in hand, I may repeat this demand!
[C]: Draw and meld two [2]s.

Clans
[L]
[X][L][L]

[L]: Choose a value.  Tuck that many cards of that value from your hand.  If you do tuck that many cards, draw a card of value one higher than the cards you tucked.


Green

Tilling
[T]
[L][X][T]

[T]: Draw 3 [1]'s.  Meld one, return the rest.

Taxes
[C]
[C][C]X][T]

[C]: I demand you transfer a [1] from your score pile to my hand!
[C]: Score a green card from your hand.  Tuck a red card from your hand.


Purple
Great Walls
[T]
[T][X][T]

[T]: Choose a different color for every 2 [T] on your board.
[T]: Draw two [2]'s.  Score each drawn card that matches a color you chose.

Archives
[B]
[X][B][B]

[B]: Choose a top card on your board.  You may splay your cards of that color left and draw a card of that value.



AGE 3


Green

Trade Routes
[X]
[B][T][T]

T: Choose one or two top cards on your board and score them.  If you scored two, transfer your bottom blue card to another player's board.  If you do, that player transfers their bottom purple card to your board.

Castes
[X]
[L][L][T]

[L]: Tuck any number of differently valued cards from your hand.  If you tucked at least four, repeat this dogma effect.
[L]: If you tucked at least one, you may splay your blue or purple cards left.


Yellow

Coliseum
[T]
[T][X][T]

T: You may return a card from your score pile.
T: Draw and score a card of value one less than the lowest card present in your score pile.

Monasteries
[B]
[B][X][L]

[B]: Draw a card of value 3 higher than your lowest top card


Red


Jesters
[B]
[B][X][B]

[B]: I demand you draw a card of any value and reveal it!  Meld it or transfer it to my score pile, my choice!

Pharmacology
[X]
[T][C][T]

[T]: You may return a top card from your board.
[T]: Draw and tuck a [4].


Purple

Bards
[L]
[X][L][C]

[L]: Reveal a non-[10] card from your score pile.  Splay your cards of its color such that non-top cards show as many icons as a third of its value, rounded up.
[L]: I demand you return a card from your score pile with a value less than the card I revealed!

Bloodlines
[T]
[X][T][T]

[T]: I demand you transfer a green card with no [C], a yellow card with no [L], or a red card with no [T] from your board to my board!  If you do, draw a [1] and you may meld a card from your hand!


Blue

Curators
[X]
[B][C][C]

[C]: You may splay one color of your cards left.  Draw and score a [2] for each newly revealed [T] revealed this way.
[C]: If you have no non-red top cards with a [T], claim the World achievement.


Relics
[X]
[C][C][C]

[C]: Draw and meld a card of value one higher than the number of claimed achievements.

85
Forum Games / You guys...
« on: March 30, 2013, 05:01:38 pm »
Need to either get really good at innovation so I have someone to play, or need to update forum games daily  :'(

This might be a kinda spammy thread, so sorry.

I'm going to a party tonight.  I really wish I could show up and play Mage Knights, but it's 80$ and hard to teach.  So I'm more likely to get stuck playing Betrayal at the House on the strategylessness flavorfest.

86
General Discussion / I'm bored :/
« on: March 24, 2013, 07:15:46 pm »
My Spring Break is this week.  Usually I don't have trouble entertaining myself, but I do.  My forum games are moving slowly.  I like innovation.isotropic, i really do, but it's not all that much fun when I play against people way below my level, it is often hard to find good opponents.  When someone just lets you achieve 1-6 while they do nothing but durdle it can be pretty much solitaire.

I got sloshed at a great party with my friends last night, and might do one or two other social things this week, but I am still at least somewhat in need of a time sink.  I wish I had a girlfriend, I've heard those are fantastic time sinks.

I have Netflix, for reference, if anyone knows some awesome animes or tv shows I could watch.  It can be hard to match tastes though.  I've already watched Firefly, but if you just ignored this sentence and suggested I watch Firefly anyway, I'll probably +respect your post.

This somewhat of a whiny and useless post maybe but I hope that's okay in GD

87
Innovation General Discussion / Anyone played against First?
« on: March 20, 2013, 09:50:56 pm »
He's shooting up the leaderboard like a rocket.  I'm curious whether he is playing amongst his friends, or is conmingling with the existing playerbase.

88
The motivations and ideas for this expansion were:

1. Makes weaker cards from base more interesting.
2. Does not require any card mockups to play.
3. Broadens decision making.

[flavor]
When a civilization develops, its broadening sphere of control sometimes leads it to interact with other civilizations.  Many times, one civilization teaches ideas to another.  Perhaps such good deeds are somehow rewarded
[/flavor]

Additional Rules
1. You need an additional achievement to win the game by achievements.

2. There is an additional type of action available to you, you can perform it if you have actions remaining in your turn, just like Dogma, Meld, Draw, or Achieve.  This action is called Teach.

Like Achieve, you are not always eligible to perform the Teach action.  To perform the Teach action, you must have a top card on your board and the most icons of any player corresponding to the featured icon of that top card's dogma effect. You can only perform the Teach action on a top card for which you have the most icons of any player corresponding to that card's dogma effect.

To perform a Teach action, you first choose a top card on your board that meets the condition for being Taught.  You declare that you are going to Teach that card. Then you select a player with the second most icons of the type corresponding to that featured icon of the card's dogma.  That is the player who will learn about your technology.  Henceforth, he is called "the Student".

The Student of the Teaching then selects one or more players (players, not opponents).  The Student also selects an order for those players.

For each player selected, in the order selected, the following occurs:
-The Student gains the ability to see all cards that player can see, indefinitely.
-The Student gains control of all that player's decisions, indefinitely.
-The player executes all the dogma effects of the Taught card, as if that player had the most icons of its feature.  This doesn't move the Taught card to a different zone, and it doesn't matter where the Taught card currently is
-The Student loses control of that player's decisions (unless the player in question is the Student herself)
-The Student loses the ability to see all cards that player can see (unless the player in question is the Student herself)


Once all selected players have finished this process, the Student is no longer a Student, and no longer has any further relationship with the Taught card or the Teaching process.

Then the player who did the Teaching gets a dramatic Teaching bonus based on the qualities of the Taught card.
The Teacher draws a card of value equal to the card that was taught.  Henceforth, this freshly drawn card is called the "Teaching Bonus Card".

The Teacher chooses one of the following:
-Foreshadow the Teaching Bonus Card. Only available when playing with echoes, and only if the taught card (not the Teaching Bonus Card) is blue-backed.
-Meld the Teaching Bonus Card.
-Score the Teaching Bonus Card.
-Tuck the Teaching Bonus Card.
-Return the Teaching Bonus Card and choose a color.  If the Teacher's pile of that color is unsplayed, she splays it left.  If it's splayed left, she splays it right.  If it's splayed right, she splays it up.  If it's splayed up, she unsplays it.
-Return the Teaching Bonus Card and declare that this event was a Kindness.
-Don't do anything (leave the Teaching Bonus Card in hand).

After the Teacher chooses exactly one of these, it's over.

Additional Achievements

Wiki
Claim this achievement immediately if you perform two different Kindnesses in one turn, teaching a different card each time.
Also, claim this achievement immediately if you make a Kindness of Encyclopedia, from Age 6.



_______________________________________________________________

You can use anything you want to signify the special achievement, an M&M, a paper clip, whatever.  Other than that, you don't need any additional materials to play this expansion, which is largely the point.  Hopefully I can get my friends to playtest the concept with me.

It seems really complicated, but it's much simpler if you aren't as rigorous about how the new action is defined.

Something that might jump out as objectionable is getting to see other people's cards frequently.  Keep in mind that that is a rare occurence, the vast majority of the time, the Student will only execute the dogma for himself, because he doesn't get any kind of reward for letting an opponent execute it too.  If you don't want people to see your super secret cards, you can just not Teach anything, or only Teach things that your opponent won't want to make you execute, like Teaching Experimentation.


EXAMPLES:
Margaret opens the game with Mysticism.  Her opponent Shelly opens Domestication and activates it to meld a Pottery.  Margeret teaches Mysticism to Shelly.  Shelly chooses to execute Mysticism only for herself.  Shelly draws a Metalworking.  Then Margaret draws The Wheel as a Teaching Sharing Bonus and decides to meld it.

Gia has the most crowns.  Both Gia and Rhonda have fewer than 4 castles on their board, so Gia teaches City States to Rhonda.  Rhonda makes them both execute it so she can at least see Gia's cards, but that's the only use Rhonda can get out of it.  Gia gets a Teaching Bonus anyway, so she draws a 1 and can meld it, score it, tuck it, return it and upgrade a splay or return it.

Rachel has the most castles, Oars on her board, and Code of Laws in her hand.  She decides to Teach Oars to her only opponent, Mary.
Mary has a City States in hand, and she doesn't find it useful, so she selects Rachel to execute Oars first.  Mary figures Rachel probably doesn't have a crown card in hand, and if she does it's probably a good one like Sailing, so Mary decides that she'll schedule an Oars execution for herself after that. 
After scheduling those two executions, Mary first gains control of Rachel's decisions and card knowledge.  She finds out that Rachel has a Code of Laws in hand, but it's too late for her to change plans.  Rachel executes Oars, causing Mary to transfer her City States to Rachel's score pile and draw a replacement card.
Mary loses control of Rachel's decisions and card knowledge and then executes an Oars effect for herself.  At this point she knows enough that she doesn't want to, but she must.  Rachel transfers Code of Laws to Mary's score pile, Rachel draws a replacement card.
Afterwards, Rachel gets a Teaching Bonus.

Lauren has the most lightbulbs.  She has a Currency in hand, but that doesn't help Lauren get castle control, which happens to be what she's most interested right now.  She Teaches Tools to Stacy, who has no cards in hand, but has a menacing Engineering and 1 castle lead.
Stacy decides to schedule only Lauren to execute Tools.  She gains control of Lauren's decisions and forces her to return Currency, even though Lauren won't get anything from it.
Afterwards, Lauren draws a 1.  It doesn't have any towers to help her with her Engineering problem, so she sighs and returns it, calling the action a Kindness.  She plans to teach Philosophy as her second action of the turn, and if she draws no castles a second time she will at least be able to achieve Wiki.


89
Since relativistically speaking I have a lot more to contribute about Innovation than Dominion, making this post is kinda shooting myself in the foot as any sort of effort to win the popularity contest of imaginary points.

But as much as I like innovation, I recognize things that go in certain boxes belong in certain boxes, and it seems like if this site is still DominionStrategy, then you shouldn't get respect for posting about Innovation strategy. 

I mean, theorel made a really reasoned, informative post about the different tactic cards available in Mage Knights the other day, and I was unable to give him any respect.  But then I turned around and made a post in the innovation subforum and I got a respect for it.  Is Innovation a more dominionish game than Mage Knights?  Mage Knights has deckbuilding so probably not. 

I don't want to contribute to identity crisis in a negative way.  Just something that's been on my mind.

90
Dominion General Discussion / The online option Goko won't shut down
« on: March 15, 2013, 05:05:04 pm »
Or, I don't know, maybe they can shut it down, legally.  But it would be such a classless move they are unlikely to do it.  Because you generally have to purchase official product to do it.

I'd like to point out, for the people that don't want to play on Goko, there is another way you can use the internet to play Dominion through the internet - Skype voice chat.  I've played several games this way, maybe 8.  They run smoother than you might expect.

Experimentation revealed that using a camera to play the game is kind of hard, but what works rather well is to simply recite things that are happening as you play.  It's like the iso text log, except audio instead of written.  Whenever your opponent announces a purchase, you just remove a card on your end from the game. 

Skype offers:
Official card art!
Voice and text chat!
Full card customization!
Preserved sessions on disconnect!
Unlimited custom card usage and nearly 100% correct rules enforcement!

Somewhat facetious.  But anyway, I encourage you guys to give it a shot.  People like me that don't want to pay twice for the game can play all they want this way.

Send me a pm, anyone, if you're interested in playing with me.  Or just use the thread to bash playing by Skype before you try it.  Whichever.

91
Innovation General Discussion / Teaching games anyone?
« on: March 15, 2013, 11:55:26 am »
I'm level 30 on innovation, and am happy to teach some dominion immigrants some strategy.  I don't want to teach basic rules, I can explain edge cases, but I don't want to be used as a substitute for reading the rules.  (The exception to this is if I happen to know you well).
If you want to play, pm me.

92
Innovation Articles / Splayability types
« on: March 08, 2013, 05:02:56 pm »
Splaying is nice, because it helps you get more icons, and that's usually a good thing.  It's also one of few strategical considerations in Innovation, even though Innovation is mostly about tactics.  Usually you don't want to spend time splaying unless you get a short term benefit in addition to the long term benefits, but understanding when those long term benefits matter most is important.


The black hex throws quite a wrinkle into splaying strategy.  Depending on where the black hex is, some of your splay types will be messed up, some won't.  It's even harder to sort out when you realize there is no perfect, ideal placement for the black hex. 

There are four splay levels: unsplayed, left, right, and up.  It doesn't take long to figure out that even with worst case scenario black hex placement, upgrading from one level to the next doesn't hurt you (for the overall total, at least). 

One thing that is not glaringly obvious though, is the following theorem:

Quote
"For each card, exactly one of the following is true: the card reveals additional icons when its splay is changed from left to right, or the card reveals additional icons when its splay is changed from right to up."

In other words, either Invention or Railroad will improve a cards iconnage, not neither, not both.  Thus, every card in base Innovation is one of two types.  To most clearly convey the meaning of those types, I will call them "Invention Island" cards and "Railroad Sprawl" cards. 
Remember: neither type is "better" than the other.  These types don't convey how useful a card is, but it tells you how the card wants you to splay it.  An Invention Island card wants to be splayed right, and after that it is happy, it doesn't want anything more from you.  A Railroad Sprawl card wants you to splay it up.  Once you've splayed a Railroad Sprawl card left, it wants to be splayed up, and it has no interest in being splayed right.

Ironically, Invention is actually a Railroad Sprawl card, and Railroad is actually an Invention Island card.  Try not to get confused.


I've attached a chart of what color and age the Invention Island cards belong to.  Exactly one third of the Innovation cards belong to Invention Island.  There are a few things to be aware of, there are a couple patterns.

1. As BrokenTree has commented before in another thread, yellow has an unusually large number of Invention island cards.  The chart says red has more, but 3 of those are from age 1, which has more cards in it anyway.  Adjusting for that they are even.  And if you adjust for the large number of Castles appearing in low red Invention Island cards, it becomes even easier to declare yellow the king of Invention Island.

2. Blue goes an astounding 4 ages without a single Invention island card, the longest streak of any color, and its the first four ages.  And there's actually only one streak of 3, which doesn't really count because the streak includes Age 10, which rarely is covered.  So splaying blue left early on can pay off in the early game, you won't get the urge to upgrade from left to right anytime soon.

3. Age 4 has the fewest Invention Island cards, but it is immediately followed by age 5, with the most.  The invention effect, itself, belongs to age 4, but won't be very useful on covered 4's. 
If you've only covered up 1's, 2's, and 3's around the time you get Invention, you're looking at 5 red cards that can benefit from invention, 4 yellow cards that can benefit, 2 green cards, a purple card, and no blue cards whatsoever.  One moral of the story is that Invention is a pretty troubled card, stuck improving a stack of red cards that will yield you icons of a probably irrelevant type, or improving the yellow pile that can splay itself on its own with Reformation.  Perhaps a more useful moral of the story is that it might be a wise idea to spam Experimentation before returning to Invention later, since age 5 has the most Invention Island cards.

4. All other things being equal, select Purple for Feudalism, Purple for Industrialization/Emancipation, and yellow for Publications (blue tries to overcompensate for its strange behavior in the first four ages later on).


93
Innovation Articles / [Featured] Turn 0
« on: March 04, 2013, 04:40:08 pm »
So, one part of a game that is easiest to talk about tends to be the really early part.  With that in mind, I thought I would make thread about choosing which of the two cards drawn at the beginning of the game should be your starting meld. 

This list deals with base, two player Innovation.

With 15 Stone Age cards in base, there are 15!/(13!2!) opening hand possibilities, which is 105.  Rather than have 105 entries, I'm going to present a priority list that creates guidelines that handle all 105 cases.  The priority list doesn't necessarily represent some openings being stronger than others, in fact, I don't care all that much about figuring out whether Clothing/Pottery is a better opening than Wheel/Tools, I only care about whether I meld Clothing over Pottery and whether I meld Wheel over Tools.  This is much more actionable information.
So, to interpret this list, for any opening hand, you try to select the highest priority opening meld you can.  If an exception is marked on that priority, then you meld according to the exception.
We should keep in mind that playstyle is a major factor in the decision, but at the same time there are some choices that are of such different strength that playstyle won't matter, and there are some choices that fit more playstyles than others.

______________________________________________________________________________
Priority 1:  Sailing
Priority 2: Domestication, except in favor of Masonry
Priority 3: The Wheel
Priority 4: Clothing
Priority 5: Metalworking
Priority 6: Masonry, except in favor of Writing or Pottery
Priority 7: Mysticism
Priority 8: Writing, except in favor of Tools
Priority 9: Pottery, except in favor of Tools
Priority 10: Oars
Priority 11: Agriculture
Priority 12: Archery
Priority 13: Tools
Priority 14: Code of Laws



Quote
Priority 1:  Sailing
Sailing gets you 2 standard actions for the price of one.  Only two Stone Age cards can force you to share this astounding power, and those cards happen to be unwanted melds early on anyway.
You'll notice that the first three cards mentioned all have dogmas that unconditionally or almost unconditionally cause you to perform 2 of your standard actions at once.  These effects are powerful because they help you get access to new dogma effects rapidly, and they help you gain icon control.  Scoring dogmas can be powerful too, but the player who is developing his board with 2 for ones can often share scoring effects.
Quote
Priority 2: Domestication, except in favor of Masonry
Domestication also gets you a 2 for 1, but an order of magnitude more cards can force you to share your mastery of animals.
Masonry is a close call, but I think Masonry should be melded instead of Domestication, because an opening hand of Domestication/Masonry makes it very unlikely you can perform an unshared Domestication that doesn't cover Domestication.  Masonry has better icons and Monument prospects with Domestication in hand.
Quote
Priority 3: The Wheel
The final reliable 2 for 1.  You meld Domestication instead of Wheel because Domestication is generally a better dogma.  While Archery or Oars could make you wish you selected the 2-for-1 card with more icons, for every Archery or Oars opening there's several castle-less openings where Domestication can run freely and untamed (Do you see what I did there?)
Quote
Priority 4: Clothing
The alphabetic C means that you can meld the other card from your opening hand if it helps you block a 2 for 1.  And while Clothing is a 1 for 1, it scores you lots of free points.  Even when Clothing doesn't give you 6 points in the first few turns, it usually at least forces your opponent to spend time melding differently colored cards to block you, often ones he didn't want to spend actions melding. 
Quote
Priority 5: Metalworking
Deciding to meld Metalworking over Masonry was a close call, but my logic is this: while Metalworking does a pretty crappy job at finding you cards that work with Masonry, it does a pretty good job at finding cards that let you make use of Masonry without melding it: Pottery and Agriculture.
Quote
Priority 6: Masonry except in favor of Writing and Pottery
Masonry has good icons that block the castle 2 for 1's.  But if you draw it with a card with no castles, the future looks bleak for getting good usage out of Masonry's dogma.  Writing and Pottery have useful dogmas and are worth sacrificing castle icon dominance, Pottery does so in part by giving you the option to pitch Masonry for points and give up on the castle arms race entirely. 
The other castleless cards have dogmas that are weak enough that you would rather meld Masonry for its icons, though.
Quote
Priority 7: Mysticism
Good icons, same as Masonry.  The dogma isn't powerful early on, but the icons are powerful early on. A hypathetical triple castle card with "C: No effect" might be ranked right below this card, actually.
Quote
Priority 8: Writing, except in favor of Tools
Drawing 2's is marginally better than drawing 1's.  Tools can fix the issue with Writing and Tools sharing a color by throwing Writing away, though.  A play that is even more powerful when you consider that your Stone Age opponent will get to the end of the Stone Age stack, only to discover you put a Writing there that will be utterly useless now that he can draw 2's with Domestication now..
Quote
Priority 9: Pottery, except in favor of Tools
Pottery ranks below both of the other blue cards because the main strength of its icons is blocking Clothing, which you can't block very effectively with two blue cards in hand anyway.  But it beats everything else because it blocks Clothing and has a useful dogma (More useful than Agriculture, early on).
Quote
Priority 10: Oars
Oars blocks Domestication.  It also has an okayish dogma early on if you share it.
Quote
Priority 11: Agriculture
Agriculture blocks Clothing.  It's also alphabetically first, giving it a "scouting" feature that synergizes with its dogma: you get a chance to see whether your opponent opened Sailing or Writing, giving you a heads-up on whether you should block by melding a Code of Laws or Tools from your hand, or instead take draw actions with the intention of pitching those cards for points later.
Quote
Priority 12: Archery
Archery blocks Domestication.  Its dogma is totally useless early on, though. 
Quote
Priority 13: Tools
I think some would put this much higher, but I don't think they should, 3's are much weaker early on, and returning three cards is costly.  However, if you make it all the way down to this priority, the other card in your hand must be pretty weak, so it hurts much less to trade it away for a 3.
Quote
Priority 14: Code of Laws
Melding Code of Laws over City States gives City States more surprise factor. 

94
Innovation General Discussion / Supremacy...
« on: February 26, 2013, 09:02:02 pm »
How does anyone keep up with this? It's the most convoluted, difficult to track achievement ever conceived.  I'm mostly sure over half the players don't really count for it when they play on iso, they just tuck and splay and hope/expect to get some obscure echoes achieves.

95
Be sure to keep in mind that removing a card limits the overall possibilities the game has to offer, and thus, risks simplifying strategy.  There's a tradeoff though, when something offers a lot of swinginess, but not a lot of strategy, it hurts the game more than it helps.  The best example I can produce off the top of my head is "items" from Super Smash Bros. which are unanimously banned from tournament play, because although they provide unique effects with interesting strategic implications, they make best of 3 sets far less accurate and hurt enjoyment more than they help.  (Actually, some of the items are less like 2/5 Mountebanks and more like Harvests, but that particular community found life easier if they threw the baby out with the bathwater).

These are the cards that I think I would remove from Base.  To keep the question simple, I'm not going to allow alternative replacements, thus, for me to say I think the game would be better off without a card, it has to be so bad that I don't mind it skewing the color and icon balance of the age.

1. Oars
The problem with Oars isn't that it's a bad card, although it is.  The problem with Oars is that it is a bad opener.  It has a useful niche and is an interesting dogma to consider later in the game, but it if it is in your opening hand, it really screws you over.  While it does have a niche, the niche is still weak, and not all that interesting.  It's not worth the swinginess that Oars produces by screwing over opening hands, hands like Archery/Oars, Oars/Code of Laws, Oars/City States.  The other half of those pairs either are doing more to not suck as openers or have a more interesting niche, Archery does what you wish Oars was doing later in the game, Code of Laws is a very interesting card and can tussle for early icons, and City States has a good niche and even isn't that bad in the opening - though it's a lot worse in the opening if your opponent can notice that your opening two cards are City States and Oars, and proceed to refuse to get a 4th tower so that you are starved out of having any good dogma at all.

2. Oars - This is sort of a joke but.. Metalworking.  That card is really swingy in a silly way.  People have posted the turn 1 Monuments and stuff.  The nice thing about removing Oars, the way I've made up these rules, is that it nerfs Metalworking just enough to make Metalworking tolerable.  It is enough to keep Metalworking off the chopping block.

That's all I have for you.  I wouldn't remove any other cards.  As I gain more experience perhaps this list would grow. 

This might seem like a dumb thread, but, whatever, I had fun making it.

96
Innovation General Discussion / :0
« on: February 20, 2013, 06:45:08 pm »
Innovation came in today.  I reread the rules, and noticed, I'm not supposed to be able to look through my opponent's piles!  The interesting thing is that the art for each card appears on the black hex, and that would imply that splaying such that your black hex is revealed has this ever so slight tactical disadvantage of allowing your opponent to know what one of your cards is (The card that would care the most about this is almost certainly Publications.)

Of course, if you remember everything, you would know what all the piles are.  Can we have an innovation version of the memory versus machine drama?  Or do I need to make an external add-on to induce drama.  Because I am willing to do that.

97
Innovation General Discussion / I just ordered Innovation!
« on: February 19, 2013, 01:52:37 pm »
It comes in Thursday.  Dougz should ask for a commission imo.

98
Variants and Fan Cards / Online App for card selection
« on: February 11, 2013, 10:28:41 am »
If you want to make random kingdoms with fan cards, what's the best online app to use?  Dominiondeck.com seems to stick to official cards, I want to be able to punch in my own entries.

99
Innovation General Discussion / PSA regarding Physics
« on: February 08, 2013, 04:54:56 pm »
Everytime you use physics and it fails, it is less likely to succeed the next time you use it.  EVERY TIME.

Because you have removed two cards of the same color from possibility of being on top, so the other four colors are biased now. 

That is all

100
Dominion Isotropic / Is isotropic down? Did I get banned?
« on: January 09, 2013, 10:17:51 pm »
It says 403 Forbidden when I go to the page.  Is anyone else getting it?  Did I chain too many Torturers against a dougz alt and get banned?

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