51
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« on: January 18, 2016, 12:26:20 pm »
New card! New card! I think we can maintain discussion of two cards successfully.
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52
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 18, 2016, 11:33:47 am »I would put the second +2 cards for Army Man in the same paragraph as the non-vanilla text, because currently, it doesn't look like it's part of the conditional stuff, which would make it strictly better than Hunting Grounds at a significantly lower cost.I agree. It might make things clearer if it goes before the attacking stuff as well. As follows:
+2 Cards
You may discard 3 cards; if you do, +2 cards and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
53
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Termination
« on: January 18, 2016, 09:27:14 am »Awesome.I wrote this down because it seemed reasonable.
Termination
$5 Action-Duration
+$2
----------------------------------
Until the start of your next turn
each other player who plays
more than three Action cards
gains a Curse and a Copper
Does this make sense while not seeming overpowered?
With this wording there should not be a dividing line between the two effects. But otherwise it works.
I like this solution a lot. It doesn't outright stop engines, or hinder the rules of Dominion and existing cards. It just penalizes you a bit for playing an engine while is is in play, just like Swamp Hag penalizes you for buying cards, but doesn't stop you altogether. The damage is less severe, perhaps, because you only get 1 curse maximum, no matter how far over that limit of 3 actions you go.
I love engines, but totally understand your brother's ire. Playing your entire deck each turn can be fun for you, but can be brutal pain for your opponent. Especially when the opponent engine is not strong enough to yield them much and move quickly toward the game end. An AI bug on Dominion Online spamming warehouse each turn to then buy nothing comes to mind.
54
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 17, 2016, 09:38:57 am »As it is, I don't think Creative Artist should be priced more than $3. One can argue that each of the given effects is on their own worth less than $3 (the non-terminal $2 is still strictly worse than silver). I don't think the flexibility is quite enough to warrant its moving from $3 to $4. Note Pawn's ability to choose two makes it in some ways more versatile than this, even if each given choice is less powerful.
The reason why I put it at $4 is because I'm a bit scared that people on a 3/4 opening would just buy two Creative Artists. It's 'as good' as a silver when you have little to no action cards in the beginning and it provides flexibility in the latter stages of the game.
Could it remain priced at $4 if it gave +3 Actions? (The other one's remain as is.)
I don't think it sounds scary at $3. Say you buy two of them in your first two turns. Then you have them both in a hand. The net results of playing them in various combos:
Action/Action=+3 Actions, hand of 3
Action/Card=+1 Action, hand of 5
Action/Buy=+1 Action, +2 Buys
Action/Coin=+1 Action, +$2
Without any additional support, unless you choose actions for the first one, the second is a dead card. There's no serious advantage to buying two on the first two turns, because having the extra actions at that point is not so useful and it is terminal otherwise.
Unless you want to make the pile of Creative Artists more than 10, I would advise against the "gain another Creative Artist" line. It'll pile out very quickly. Cf. Port.
As for Soldier: First, note that there is an official card with this name already, so consider an alternative. Second, and more important, this seems much weaker than Militia for the same cost. The Attack is contingent on you effectively discarding down to 3 cards as well (Play it, have cards left; draw 2, have 6 cards left; discard 3, have 3 cards left) and then puts you at a disadvantage because you cannot play another Action (unless you have played a village previously). I think this needs to be buffed. But I like the contingency of the Attack, so I'd keep that in some fashion.
55
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 16, 2016, 09:54:52 pm »Some wording clean-up to conform to official Dominion cards:I'm nit-picking a little bit here. Trader says:
You may trash an Action card from your hand that is not School Building. Gain Golds equal to half its cost in $, rounded down[, putting them on top of your deck].
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a number of Silvers equal to its cost in coins.
And Rats says:
Trash a card from your hand other than a Rats (or reveal a hand of all Rats).
So let's use that..
You may trash a card from your hand other than a School Building. Gain a number of Golds equal to half its cost in coins, rounded down, putting them on top of your deck.
Obviously with it being an optional trash, you don't need to reveal. Also, "putting them on top of your deck" comes straight from Treasure Map.
Good point on the wording. I was extrapolating from the "card that is not a Victory" sort of wording. Forgot about rats.
But don't forget this is supposed to restrict it to Actions cards! So that phrase in the wording should remain.
56
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 16, 2016, 09:51:31 pm »
As it is, I don't think Creative Artist should be priced more than $3. One can argue that each of the given effects is on their own worth less than $3 (the non-terminal $2 is still strictly worse than silver). I don't think the flexibility is quite enough to warrant its moving from $3 to $4. Note Pawn's ability to choose two makes it in some ways more versatile than this, even if each given choice is less powerful.
57
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 16, 2016, 03:00:20 pm »
I think in general concept, School Building is fine. Its closest comparison would be Treasure Map, I suppose. Both require getting two cards to collide, but this one has greater flexibility with the trade-off of a weaker return, and doesn't self-trash, so it has greater longevity. If you are going to leave it non-terminal, I think I might skip the top-decking. I'm more favorable to keeping it if you made it a terminal.
Some wording clean-up to conform to official Dominion cards:
You may trash an Action card from your hand that is not School Building. Gain Golds equal to half its cost in $, rounded down[, putting them on top of your deck].
Some wording clean-up to conform to official Dominion cards:
You may trash an Action card from your hand that is not School Building. Gain Golds equal to half its cost in $, rounded down[, putting them on top of your deck].
58
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cards for friends
« on: January 15, 2016, 02:03:30 pm »
I have some templates on my home computer. I can send you them later. A couple asthetic notes: the card name and type text is better simulated by the free font Optimus Princeps, which you can easily find and download. The card text is Times New Roman. Using these will make the card look a bit more like a real Dominion card.
Houdini--I like the general idea for the overpay. As for the main part of the card, I wonder if it might be better to have the card trashed rather than returned to the supply.
Biking: you have the discard effect twice on there. I think I see you trying to make a differentiation, but it runs into some confusion. If I might suggest a more "official" wording: "When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Silver. The top half seems a bit weak, or maybe just a bit more niche. But it also seems like it anti-synergizes with the reaction effect of gaining more silvers. The card's action seems like it favors a deck with few treasures, and coppers at that. It also does not stack very well, despite its +Action. I would suggest reworking the top half to be more useful, or strengthen the bottom significantly. (Maybe: When you discard this other than during clean-up, you may gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.)
Houdini--I like the general idea for the overpay. As for the main part of the card, I wonder if it might be better to have the card trashed rather than returned to the supply.
Biking: you have the discard effect twice on there. I think I see you trying to make a differentiation, but it runs into some confusion. If I might suggest a more "official" wording: "When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Silver. The top half seems a bit weak, or maybe just a bit more niche. But it also seems like it anti-synergizes with the reaction effect of gaining more silvers. The card's action seems like it favors a deck with few treasures, and coppers at that. It also does not stack very well, despite its +Action. I would suggest reworking the top half to be more useful, or strengthen the bottom significantly. (Maybe: When you discard this other than during clean-up, you may gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.)
59
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« on: January 15, 2016, 01:50:44 pm »
I am loving the new concept and concur with the earlier sentiment that this is one of few occasions where I am looking forward to printing out and playing someone else's full custom card set. Please unveil the next one!
And to weigh in on the discussion of components from other expansions: I have no problem with a fan set drawing on components found in one expansion only (I have done the same). This is especially true for tokens, where anything can be used to mark it, not only the official pieces. I don't own Guilds, but it wouldn't stop me from using pennies as coin tokens (what other use is there for pennies?) if I wanted to play with the card. Ruins are a bit trickier, but it's a print-to-play expansion, so if someone doesn't have Ruins, they don't have to print the card, eh?
And to weigh in on the discussion of components from other expansions: I have no problem with a fan set drawing on components found in one expansion only (I have done the same). This is especially true for tokens, where anything can be used to mark it, not only the official pieces. I don't own Guilds, but it wouldn't stop me from using pennies as coin tokens (what other use is there for pennies?) if I wanted to play with the card. Ruins are a bit trickier, but it's a print-to-play expansion, so if someone doesn't have Ruins, they don't have to print the card, eh?
60
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« on: January 14, 2016, 11:57:20 am »[NotSerious]No, no guys, you miss the obvious solution: Season Ruins!Maybe that's not so bad.
Perpetual Wasteland
$0-Ruins
In Spring, +1 Card
In Summer, +1 Action
In Fall, +1 Buy
In Winter, +$1
[/NotSerious]
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Printing Fan-made cards with art included
« on: January 12, 2016, 07:08:01 pm »
I imagine 3mm will be fairly noticeable. I use adhesive labels and put them on base cards. I prefer the look and feel of clear labels over blank cards, but it's not exactly cheap to do this en masse.
62
Variants and Fan Cards / Another risky investment card
« on: January 10, 2016, 06:27:40 pm »
I've been mulling over another risky investment VP gainer, dependent on pile depletion. Two versions of it, both too wordy at the moment:
Version A--one card:
$2--Action/Hex
-1 VP
Count the number of empty supply piles. If there are...
none, +1 card, +1 action
exactly 1, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Duchy.
2 or more, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Province.
Version B--two cards:
Card X
$2--Action/Hex
-1 VP
+1 Card
+1 Action
Count the number of empty supply piles. If there are...
none, you may trash this and gain a Card Y
1 or more, you may trash this and gain a Duchy
Card Y
$3*--Action/Hex
-2 VP
+1 Card, +1 Action
If there are 2 or more supply piles empty, you may trash this and gain a Province.
In Version A, the pertinent risks are (1) the game ends on Provinces/Colonies before another pile is depleted and (2) deciding whether to cash out early for Duchies or try to hang on for Provinces. The card is not too detrimental, as a cantrip, so long as no piles have been depleted. After that, keeping them can past Duchy-ripeness can get in your way without good village support.
In version B, card X is a cantrip regardless of the number of empty supply piles. But once there is at least one empty pile, you are locked out of the trash-for-Province card, card Y. Being harder to get in the first place, I reverted this to a cantrip as well, but made the penalty for failure steeper by giving it -2 VP.
Other potential modifications:
Change the timing of the trash-for-VP to when you discard from play, allowing your buys to empty out a supply pile for you.
Change wording to "supply piles other than [this card's name]" to hinder a simple race to the bottom of this card's pile.
Version A--one card:
$2--Action/Hex
-1 VP
Count the number of empty supply piles. If there are...
none, +1 card, +1 action
exactly 1, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Duchy.
2 or more, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Province.
Version B--two cards:
Card X
$2--Action/Hex
-1 VP
+1 Card
+1 Action
Count the number of empty supply piles. If there are...
none, you may trash this and gain a Card Y
1 or more, you may trash this and gain a Duchy
Card Y
$3*--Action/Hex
-2 VP
+1 Card, +1 Action
If there are 2 or more supply piles empty, you may trash this and gain a Province.
In Version A, the pertinent risks are (1) the game ends on Provinces/Colonies before another pile is depleted and (2) deciding whether to cash out early for Duchies or try to hang on for Provinces. The card is not too detrimental, as a cantrip, so long as no piles have been depleted. After that, keeping them can past Duchy-ripeness can get in your way without good village support.
In version B, card X is a cantrip regardless of the number of empty supply piles. But once there is at least one empty pile, you are locked out of the trash-for-Province card, card Y. Being harder to get in the first place, I reverted this to a cantrip as well, but made the penalty for failure steeper by giving it -2 VP.
Other potential modifications:
Change the timing of the trash-for-VP to when you discard from play, allowing your buys to empty out a supply pile for you.
Change wording to "supply piles other than [this card's name]" to hinder a simple race to the bottom of this card's pile.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cloister - a cheaper Forge?
« on: January 07, 2016, 08:04:59 pm »
Meh, I personally don't care for how limited some of the above solutions to the "ambiguity" problem make it. I think it'd be fine to be able to check two boxes with one card. "Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. If you trashed a Victory, Treasure, and Action card this way, gain a Province."
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cloister - a cheaper Forge?
« on: January 07, 2016, 10:02:23 am »
It sounds like a good starting price to me. A clarification question: do you need to trash the cards in that order? Select all three then trash them at once? I ask because of the on-trashing effects of a number of Dark Ages cards where that might matter (Overgrown Estate, Cultist).
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Knicknacks
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:00:44 pm »
It sounds like the Tavern mat might be a decent place for it to go instead of being set aside. It does function like a Reserve after all, waiting available til you need it.
Dreamcatcher - 2$ Reserve-Reaction
When you gain this, +1 Buy and put it on your Tavern mat.
---------------
When you gain a card, you may call this to trash that card. If you do, return this to the supply.
Dreamcatcher - 2$ Reserve-Reaction
When you gain this, +1 Buy and put it on your Tavern mat.
---------------
When you gain a card, you may call this to trash that card. If you do, return this to the supply.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: ShadowLancer's fan cards
« on: January 06, 2016, 04:05:32 pm »Fire pit is super duper overpowered. I take no credit for what I'm about to say:Yeah, I think it's a bit too powerful. Buy just one of these and Curses no longer do any damage to you VP value at endgame. The fact that Curse costs $0 makes it hard to justify the same ration mechanic as Duke, dependent on a $5 card much harder to by en masse. I don't have a quick solution for you, but pointing you to the mechanic in my Indulgence might spark ideas:
At the start of the game, buy as many curses as you can, maybe a +buy card or two to let you get more Curses. Then buy out the Fire Pits, then three pile.
Or it might be in this order: buy Fire Pits and +buy cards, then buy Curses.
One of those is super overpowered and breaks the game.
Action - $3
+1 card, +1 Action, +1 Buy
You may put a Curse from your hand on your Indulgence mat. If you do, trash this.
Curses on your Indulgence mat are worth 1 VP per Indulgence in your deck.
That mechanic made it so that it didn't simply null all Curses in your deck, made it harder to accrue a lot of points off a Curse rush, and in fact made it inadvisable to go after all the curses (you can max get rid of 10 Curses this way, but then each is worth 0; optimal is to get 5 on the mat and 5 indulgences, with no other curses). Finding some way to limit the point ceiling on this is important, esp. in a 4 player game where it could theoretically his 30 points apiece. Cwazy.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: ShadowLancer's fan cards
« on: January 06, 2016, 03:53:04 pm »
A few comments that immediately come to mind.
Mad scientist: This is strictly better than Warehouse, so has to cost more than $3 or weakened in some way.
Boomerang: I'm not sure as worded this would produce the result you want. i.e., I don't think you'll get the 3 Actions, just 1. Cf. Caravan Guard. You might need to make it a Reserve, or have you set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn (without using an action to do so).
I'd hate to be on the other side of a Genie turn, especially if decks aren't tiny. Too easy to set up your mega-engine and kill the game when you have a marginal lead early.
Mad scientist: This is strictly better than Warehouse, so has to cost more than $3 or weakened in some way.
Boomerang: I'm not sure as worded this would produce the result you want. i.e., I don't think you'll get the 3 Actions, just 1. Cf. Caravan Guard. You might need to make it a Reserve, or have you set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn (without using an action to do so).
I'd hate to be on the other side of a Genie turn, especially if decks aren't tiny. Too easy to set up your mega-engine and kill the game when you have a marginal lead early.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: January 01, 2016, 03:18:49 pm »
I don't think it would push a Treasure-only strategy. But it would push a diversity-based or resilient strategy. Anyhow, on further reflection, I know you are right about it being too strong in its detrimental power. Here are some alternate versions that are less detrimental:
Version B:
Version C:
And drawing on your absolution idea, Charity (reusing name and art from the dropped Charity non-supply card above):
Price TBD?
Version B:
Version C:
And drawing on your absolution idea, Charity (reusing name and art from the dropped Charity non-supply card above):
Price TBD?
69
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: January 01, 2016, 11:18:20 am »Your Copper comment doesn't make any sense. You didn't read the card properly; it is already limited to "Put this on an Action supply pile."Two Event ideas that came to me.
Excommunication [I've renamed the old Excommunication (see above) to Damnation, though still not settled on that]
Event - $3
+1 Buy
Put this card on an Action supply pile. While this is on a supply pile, card from that pile cannot be played.
Book of Magic
Event - $1
Move the Book of Magic token to your Tavern mat. While it is on your Tavern mat, you may play Curses during your Buy phase for $2 per Curse.
I don't like Excommunication. It's too much in-your-face and really crippling, especially with Villages, cantrips and Copper.
Copper is especially bad. If you go first, and have $5, you can buy Excommunication and Duchess, put the card on Copper and win by emptying the Estate, Duchess and Copper pile over years of agony. Also works with other openings and cards. You can fix the Copper thing by only putting it on kingdom or action cards, but honestly i think you'd be far better off with REWARDING yourself for other players playing a card. How about something like this:
Absolution, $3
Put your Absolution token on an action supply pile. When another player plays a card from that pile, take a coin token.
Also note it hurts all players, so choosing a village probably means you are opting for a different strategy altogether. I imagine its effects will be more like Embargo than anything else. Its mere presence discourages a strategy that if overly reliant on any one component. But it's effect on that card does not persist to game's end.
I do, however, like the Absolution idea. Not sure about coin tokens (mostly because I don't own a physical copy of Guilds!), but might consider something like that.
Also, I have no idea how these would be properly priced.
Mock-ups.
70
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 31, 2015, 06:29:18 pm »
Two Event ideas that came to me.
Excommunication [I've renamed the old Excommunication (see above) to Damnation, though still not settled on that]
Event - $3
+1 Buy
Put this card on an Action supply pile. While this is on a supply pile, card from that pile cannot be played.
Book of Magic
Event - $1
Move the Book of Magic token to your Tavern mat. While it is on your Tavern mat, you may play Curses during your Buy phase for $2 per Curse.
Excommunication [I've renamed the old Excommunication (see above) to Damnation, though still not settled on that]
Event - $3
+1 Buy
Put this card on an Action supply pile. While this is on a supply pile, card from that pile cannot be played.
Book of Magic
Event - $1
Move the Book of Magic token to your Tavern mat. While it is on your Tavern mat, you may play Curses during your Buy phase for $2 per Curse.
71
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Throne Room Variant - Imperial Household
« on: December 30, 2015, 02:26:59 pm »
I suppose to kick off a chain you need a starting hand of at least IH-IH-Smithy (or another draw card) and then need to subsequently draw more IH and draw cards.
Anyhow, I agree IH as originally posted can be a bit too complex to keep track of. I think the difficulty is less in the number of branches than in its ability to alternate back and forth between cards played twice from it. If a simpler AABB is maintained (my suggestion above), it is not any harder to keep track of than doubled TR.
The other way to rein it in would be to simply have it say "Choose two Action cards other than Imperial Household. Play each of them twice, in any order." This could still get pretty complex for tracking, depending on the cards doubled, but might be suitable.
Anyhow, I agree IH as originally posted can be a bit too complex to keep track of. I think the difficulty is less in the number of branches than in its ability to alternate back and forth between cards played twice from it. If a simpler AABB is maintained (my suggestion above), it is not any harder to keep track of than doubled TR.
The other way to rein it in would be to simply have it say "Choose two Action cards other than Imperial Household. Play each of them twice, in any order." This could still get pretty complex for tracking, depending on the cards doubled, but might be suitable.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Throne Room Variant - Imperial Household
« on: December 30, 2015, 01:19:21 pm »I'm stopping at 5. Also note that it's easier to kick off an IH chain because you can an initial play on a draw card to find the next IH.Wouldn't hurt to read the actual card before writing such nonsense: "Choose 2 Actions in your hand."
You cannot play Imperial Household on a card that draws in order to draw a card which you can then use IH on.
As an example, IH-Smithy-wait for the third card is not possible as the second card is lacking, you gotta choose both action card immediately.
With TR-TR-Smithy on the other hand you draw 6 card and then you can throne one of the drawn cards.
Whoops, touche. Have a +1. The conversation got long enough that I forgot that, but the diagram stands.
If you start with a hand full of 5 IHs. But what's the point of that, since there's no "real" action to pair up with any of them! You'd need at least another draw action or two in hand to chance making the other IHs useful. And better to have a good number more in hand.
73
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 29, 2015, 08:18:15 am »
Thanks for the typo corrections, Thanar. Note on the wording for Missal: that phrasing comes from Expedition, actually. So there's some variation in the phrasing for this sort of effect it seems.
Thanks again for the detailed commentary, Marcory. My notes follow:
Thanks again for the detailed commentary, Marcory. My notes follow:
Templar: As written, 'you may discard this' implies from your hand; it should specify 'discard this from your Tavern Mat' or 'from your hand or reserve mat' for clarity's sake.Noted, will add the wording to clarify!
Quote
Penance: I think I probably misread this card. But in any case, would it be better as something along the lines of 'Gain a Copper; if you do, + [3?] Cards'? This would make it a niche card like Beggar that has some useful combos. It would retain the self-penalizing aspect, and you could keep the on-trash bonus if you want.I like this. A lot. I think that can be implemented without it needing a line break, but if I can't I'll need to retool the wording overall to implement it.
Quote
Reliquary: Seems weak; maybe a little better than Trade Route, but it scales well with multiplayer and may be a decent counter to the likes of Cultist.This was built on comparison with Forager rather than Trade Route, actually. I initially wanted to make it dependent on differently named Action cards in the trash, but thought that could get crazy. Then I thought +$1 for every 2 differently named Actions in the trash, but then it gets a little hard to start up. So then I thought of attaching it to Ruins. I wonder if setting it to play off Actions more generally would be worth a revisit.
Quote
Black Mass: Superficially similar to Quest. Only problem is that it's completely useless in games without Cursing attacks. Maybe you could have it discard a Curse or Victory card costing $3 or more (so that it doesn't trash Estates or Overgrown Estate)? But I like the concept.I wouldn't say useless, though obviously its value is more marginal in games without cursers. In games where it is present, all players will start with 1 curse in their deck anyway. And if there's decent trashing and you have a spare buy, you might grab another curse to speed up the Gold gain. We'll see upon testing.
Quote
Indulgence: I think this would be weak even if its ability weren't a one-shot. Sure, in some games you'll want one of these for the cantrip +Buy, but it's only better than Market Square in games that have both Cursing and no Trashing. Maybe you could instead have it read, 'You may trash this and another card from your hand; if you do, +2 VP' for a similar but more versatile effect.As is, it's done pretty well in test games at netting some decent VP in kingdoms with and without cursing, especially when one player goes at it uncontested.
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Iconographer I like it, but the text could be improved toThis turns it into a choice, though, which I didn't intend. If you play it and can't succeed in trashing two Treasures, I want you to have to trash it and gain a silver. As a choice, you can always just choose "Trash two Treasures" regardless of whether there are Treasures in hand to trash, and keep the +VP gainer.
+1 VP
Choose one: Trash two Treasures from your hand; or trash this and gain a silver
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Holy Vestment If I have 3 Holy Vestments on my Tavern mat and decide to call all of them at the start of my turn, do I draw 6 or 9 cards? (If I have to resolve them sequentially, I get 3 from the 1st HV, 2 from the 2nd, 1 from the 3rd; if they resolve simultaneously, then they each draw 3 cards). I don't know of a good reading to distinguish the two possibilities.The once per turn is supposed to indicate that you may only call on Holy Vestment once per turn. Perhaps a wording shift from "you may call this" to "you may call a Holy Vestment" would clarify this (though the FAQ will anyway). So the math is unnecessary in that case. I have 6 HVs on the mat, at the start of my turn I call one, and draw 5 cards. I cannot call another HV.
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Funeral: As a rule, Dominion cards either give +Coin or +Cards but not both at the same time. I think this card would be better off giving +Coin only; there are precedents for one-shot coin producers (Spoils, Death Cart, Pillage), but not one-shots that give +Cards, except for Madman, which is intentionally overpowered. (I suspect that this means that one-shot that gives +Cards has already been tested and found wanting). Also, you might want to have it cost $3, because Dark Ages introduced a division between 'good trash' that costs $3 or more, and 'Bad Trash' that costs $2 or less.Funeral has seen considerable reworking from the original post, so much of it in this form hasn't been extensively tested yet. The combination of +Card/+Coin for the most powered-up version was mostly out of a desire to do something other than straight card draw for that stage. I don't quite get your initial statement, though. This is effectively what City does at its most powered up. The pricing point is goo to note, though. But I'm not sure its non-one-shot utility is worth bumping it to $3, since--as noted above--the above-the-line text is strictly worse than Squire.
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Collection Plate Wouldn't it be better to just deal out Coppers, because 1) a single Charity is not all that bad, as LA said, and 2) Charity seems to weak to use up a card slot, even if it's not in the Supply.Good point. I'll probably implement this.
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Confession Donald X has already said that he's tried a discarding Lab for $4 and it didn't work (see the Secret History of Adventures, or the Fugitive page on the wiki)Yeah, this has been raised above (page 1?). However, this is not a supply card you can just buy, so the pricing on this is nominal only. The pricing issue doesn't necessarily work the same for it. You can only gain it by buying a Duchy, meaning each Confession is also adding a dead card to your deck.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 28, 2015, 08:14:33 pm »
Inre excommunication: something like that sounds good.
For crusade, the alt version I posted once had one +VP per differently named victory card. Another option.
For crusade, the alt version I posted once had one +VP per differently named victory card. Another option.
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Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holy Order
« on: December 28, 2015, 08:55:32 am »How does Templar ever come off your reserve mat? If you intend for it to be a one-shot, wouldn't it be easier just to have it trash itself?When your shuffle your deck. So not a one-shot. It only gets played once every other shuffle. But of course, an opponent with Templar ramps up the frequency of shuffling.
Your Clergy line really ought to go something along the lines of Deacon-Priest-Monsignor-Bishop-Archbishop. You don't want to have up to 5 Popes floating around, and Cardinal is a different kind of status than Bishop. (Not all Cardinals are Archbishops or even Bishops, and in the Middle Ages, some of them were even laymen.) (Plus, not all Europeans in the Dominion era were Catholic; some were Orthodox and had neither Cardinals nor a Pope).The existence of Bishop hinders any attempt to make a stepwise or complete hierarchy of church offices. You'll note as well I've got "village priest" as such mostly as a reflection of the village-like nature of its turn two. I don't really care that there might be multiple popes floating around simultaneously (nor is it historically unprecedented). So in all, point taken, but not implemented.
Novice seems like an expensive version of Sage. It might be worth $3; definitely not $5, even given the arbitrariness of Traveller pricing.Well, the arbitrariness of Traveller pricing makes it a moot point, more or less. But it's better compared to Golem than Sage. It is not concerned with price of cards, and only hits Actions.
Nun can probably just set aside the Victory cards, like Island; it would make the card less wordy. Also, I think your 'Non-kingdom' wording is trying to account for variable-VP cards like Silk Road; setting them aside would avoid this problem, and also the problem of 'Non-Kingdom', which is not a Dominion term.This wording was suggested in the other thread on this Traveller line. Yes, setting aside a card could handle the other types of VP and it was suggested. I'll consider it further.
Sinner is missing some wording in the posted image. What is it supposed to say?It's all there, actually. Changing the name to Blasphemer caused too much squeeze on the bottom line, so I needed to move the in to before the ellipses instead on before hand and play respectively. If you have a Confession in play, you may exchange Sinner for Novice; if you have Confession in hand, you may exchange Sinner for Blasphemer. If you have one in play and one in hand, you may choose which way to exchange (but still only one way or the other, as indicated by "exchange").
Cloister seems overpriced; it's similar to Distant Lands but more expensive and less versatile, unless you plan to use a TFB on it.You might have misread this. Unlike Distant lands, this is not a risky investment. It's the opposite. You get the points when you buy it, and they're (mostly) untouchable. Cloister itself is fairly easy to get rid of thereafter, especially incentivizing buying more cloisters. Cloister is strictly better than Duchy, and not overpriced.
The idea of Excommunication, an untrashable curse, is OK, but the name is odd, thematically. Excommunications can be and frequently are lifted, and are not the result of blackmail. Also, thematically, you ought to get an Excommunication for playing a Heretic or Blasphemer.Sure, but theme's not everything. I mean, Giant and Torturer are both cursers connected to a witch-themed card. I mostly just wanted another card using Excommunication connected to Heretic. But I would certainly consider changing Excommunication's name. It started elsewhere from where it went in development, the name largely a vestige.
I like this as well, except that I fear the effect would just render this a simple curse in games with another curser, once the Curse pile is depleted. It might warrant this change nonetheless if I bumped the VP penalty to -2 on this card.I don't really like the idea of a curse that's completely untrashable (Excommunication). I'd rather just make it harder to trash. Maybe "When you trash this, gain a curse" so you'd basically have to trash it twice.I really like your idea.
Crusade looks really weak; a Scout without the +1 Action. I'd usually rather just have a Duchy.Yeah, you did misread that. It's a Smithy that sometimes gives you VP. And I think I will remove the on-buy effect of this.
Holy See looks worth testing, at least (though probably something Diocese would be a better name, as there is only one Holy See); you'll want to see how often people buy this over Duchy.From the few tests I've played with it, it served especially as a counterpoint to Templar and as a good buy later in the game near the shuffle point to push for major greening to the finish.
Labyrinth is interesting; my instinct is to compare it with Tunnel and Island, other Alt-VP cards that are too weak to be strategies on their own, but are sometimes worth buying for their abilities. However, I'm not sure I'd buy a Labyrinth for its ability, if it will trigger someone else's Labyrinth. Maybe have it trigger on gaining Provinces, or on gaining Treasures?Good point. I think I could just use the wording "Victory card other than Labyrinth."
Iconoclast seems way too powerful; it's a combination of a slightly-weaker Monument and a slightly-weaker Sea Hag.It seemed to pass muster after revision when it was posted some time ago. Cursing with it turned out in reality to be quite difficult to effect, unless a player was willfully ignoring the +VP token gainers on the table in favor of a different strategy.
Cursed Idol seems pretty weak; in order to use it, I have to buy what is effectively a Copper, costing myself a VP in the process, and then buy junk cards in order to curse other people.Yeah, I've been trying and trying to retool this card in a way that toned down its ridiculous ability to dole out curses en masse in previous iterations. I'm not sure it's worth retooling again. I can track down the link for the other thread if you want to review the discussion.
Collection Plate is similar to Explorer; how often do you buy one of those?Depends on your deck composition. Explorer can't get you alt-Treasures either. Nor does it have the deck-cycling effect. It's also cheaper.
Collection Plate seems weak, especially since a single Charity isn't really bad.I welcome suggestions on weakening Charity.
Penance is similar to Distant Lands, which costs $5; is it too cheap?
You nerfed Penance a little too much from it's previous version. Now it's just a Moat that gives you 2VP when you trash it instead of moat's reaction.Two very different views on Penance pricing. I think it's in some ways a riskier investment than Distant Lands, since it gives you negative points if you fail. You essentially go into debt first. You also can't get rid of it if there's a Curse or Hex in hand, which, given the terminal draw of this card, is another potential impediment to the reward after the early game. I think LibraryAdventurer is right that if anything, I nerfed it too much. But +3 cards might be too strong. I welcome suggestions.
Templar is going to be a big pain to resolve with the "Look through each others players' discard piles" part. It'd be simpler to say, "Each other player reveals their discard pile and shuffles up to five victory cards from it into their deck." Even that is going to cause too much reshuffling, and I don't think the attack needs to be up to five. I would do something like this: "Each other player reveals their discard pile and puts two (or 3) non-action victory cards from it on top of their deck."I'll think about it. Top-decking definitely speeds things up a bit, but it's a much harsher attack. Then again, Templar is player only once every other turn....
I use a card almost the same as Synod, except it says "reveal the top 2" instead of 3, and it's still plenty strong for a $4 cost. So I think Synod might be too strong for $4 & too weak for $5 as is.I originally priced it at $5, but with +3 Actions. But as posted here, I think it is comparable to Wandering Minstrel and is not necessarily strictly stronger or weaker than it. WM draws you a card no matter what, while Synod sometimes fails. WM sets up subsequent draws to grab Actions, but Synod discards all but the one you choose to put in hand.
Does Holy Vestment count itself when counting holy vestments on the tavern mat? hard to tell.No, you first call HV and then your count the VMs on the mat. So you need at least two to make the card useful.
I think Pardon is too similar to Shanty Town to be worth using. Also, I think Missal is too similar to Expedition.Similar. But I think they are sufficiently distinct to make their existence worthwhile. Shanty Town and Pardon play differently; and Missal is a bit more versatile than Expedition.