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1451

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: You make the card: An F.DS community-created fan card! (Part 8)

« on: December 13, 2015, 06:45:47 pm »

I think "would gain" is significantly different enough that it should be a separate option.  I guess we could vote on it afterwards, since this poll is already up.

Can you explain more? Seems to me that anything you want to do could theoretically be done with either wording. With the exception of the fact that it doesn't trigger at the same time as other "when you gain" effects.

Here's an example (I do know that this wouldn't actually work): "When another player would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you gain that card instead." If it said "gains" instead of "would gain," you and that player would both gain a copy of that card.

1452

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Altered starting conditions

« on: December 11, 2015, 05:48:17 pm »

Savings


A copper that, if not initially spent, is retained on your Reserve mat until such a time as you need it. I initially worded at beginning of your Buy phase, but I could probably loosen that. My wife and I tried it and often forgot to call it until other Treasures were already played. It never hurts to call it every Buy phase though, because if unspent it returns to the Tavern mat. Note that this cannot be called in the Action phase for, say, Black Market.

So, a Coin token?

1453

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: You make the card: An F.DS community-created fan card! (Part 6)

« on: December 10, 2015, 09:55:40 am »

Oh oops, yesterday was Wednesday, wasn't it? Ok, will create runoff thread today. Not 100% sure if the runoff should be between just the 2 highest, or if the third highest is close enough. Thus is the problem with not having strict planned-out rules ahead of time. But 9/50 sounds pretty darn close to 11/50 to me, so I think it gets in.

So for formatting... a couple different people said they would prefer the ability to choose multiple. Can I get more input on that so I can see if I should switch it to that for future votes? Won't happen for a runoff though; that doesn't make sense.

Oh, and I voted for when someone trashes. Mostly because I think that reacting to when your opponent trashes a card would be really cool. I could work both as a way of dealing with someone running a thin deck with Chapel or Remake, but also as an add-on to a trashing attack.

I think we should get the ability to choose multiple options.

1454

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Three alt-VP cards

« on: December 09, 2015, 12:20:23 am »

Two more attempts at alternate versions of Labyrinth:


And another idea that came about while observing the discussion about Island and thinking about Reserve cards:

It effectively Islands a Victory card when you buy it, if you have previously set it on your Tavern mat. Not strictly better or worse than Island, though. It doesn't have the tricky problem of getting Island to align with a Victory card (or whatever). And it can do it multiple times in the course of a game, not only once. But it can't be used to Island cards already in your deck. And it gives no points itself.
Rules clarifications: after you call the Archipelago into play, it is discarded at the end of the turn. When you call archipelago, you may only put one bought victory card on the Tavern mat.

I like the $4 version of Labyrinth more, because unlike the $3 and original versions, it doesn't allow infinite VP gaining, as its trigger requires something that pulls the game closer to its conclusion.

1455

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Three alt-VP cards

« on: December 07, 2015, 03:20:01 pm »

I guess it's true that there are no cards that are strictly better versions of cards... just like the relationship between and .

Mining Village, Worker's Village, Farming Village, Fortress, Wandering Minstrel (although this one isn't necessarily strictly better since it discards Treasures), Plaza, Port, Walled Village, Scavenger, and Messenger all say hello (they're strictly better versions of $3 cards at $4).

Messenger > Woodcutter & Chancellor
Scavenger > Chancellor
Everything else > Village

1456

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Three alt-VP cards

« on: December 06, 2015, 05:20:42 pm »

Cloister

Points of a Duchy given in chip form when you buy it, but itself a dead card in your deck. However, you can get rid of it like Hovel, potentially giving you the points without the deck space.

I like this one. It doesn't really even need to be a Victory card, it could just be a pure Reaction.

Labyrinth

Like a Tunnel, except that it gives VP tokens instead of Golds. Favors kingdoms with strong sifting or discard attacks, but still bears 2 points so it isn't dead in a kingdom without.

This is probably significantly worse than a Tunnel. +1VP as opposed to "gain a gold" is terrible. It's strictly better than an Estate, though, so I would raise its reaction effect to +2VP and drop its cost to $4.

Latifundia

A VP with exponential point value (1=1; 2=4; 3=9; 4=16; 5=25; 6=36). Caps at 6, though, unlike Duke. Might be better priced at $5.

Speaking of Duke, this is what Duke used to be, but with a cap. The problem with that is that it has to cost enough for it to be hard to get a lot of them, but then it's overpriced when you don't. A cap of 6VP still has that problem. Now, if it had a cap of 3VP, then it would be interesting.

1457

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: You make the card: An F.DS community-created fan card! (Part 5.5)

« on: December 06, 2015, 10:53:39 am »

If there are an overwhelming amount of choices, you could have multiple polls with some of the suggestions on each and then pit the winners against each other.

1458

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Similar cards; which do you prefer?

« on: December 06, 2015, 10:51:59 am »

IIRC in cards where you choose multiple options, they happen in printed order (eg Trusty Steed) so you'd always draw before trashing.

That is correct.

1459

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mechanics inspired by passing

« on: December 05, 2015, 07:10:30 pm »

I actually have some custom cards that I'm testing with similar mechanics. One with a pass-style effect and a set of 4 that use the same token.

I was thinking about making this one cost 3 instead, but I like that it doesn't cost the same as Silver.
http://i.imgur.com/eHAVoHL.jpg

These 4 all use the same Token, so they get more powerful if there is more than one of them in a Kingdom.
http://i.imgur.com/tTCpvhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ulvB4UE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M1D8UZA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Bx2U0Dd.jpg
As a side note, they won't always be in the kingdom with Potions because the cost doesn't include a Potion, so I tried to make the effects take this into account.

I'm not sure I'm done modifying them, and I don't think the costs are correct yet for Trinket, Magical Hammer, or Magical Sword.

For the Magical Hammer, do you get the Magic token bonus at the start of your next turn or on the turn you play Magical Hammer?

1460

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mechanics inspired by passing

« on: December 05, 2015, 09:34:13 am »

I actually have some custom cards that I'm testing with similar mechanics. One with a pass-style effect and a set of 4 that use the same token.

I was thinking about making this one cost 3 instead, but I like that it doesn't cost the same as Silver.
http://i.imgur.com/eHAVoHL.jpg

These 4 all use the same Token, so they get more powerful if there is more than one of them in a Kingdom.
http://i.imgur.com/tTCpvhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ulvB4UE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M1D8UZA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Bx2U0Dd.jpg
As a side note, they won't always be in the kingdom with Potions because the cost doesn't include a Potion, so I tried to make the effects take this into account.

I'm not sure I'm done modifying them, and I don't think the costs are correct yet for Trinket, Magical Hammer, or Magical Sword.

I just realized one problem with Magical Arrow. If you've played even a single Hireling or Champion this game, your Magical Arrows are completely useless for the rest of the game, since Hirelings and Champions both stay in play forever. I would reword it to "If you haven't played any cards this turn other than Magical Arrows, +2 Cards."

1461

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mechanics inspired by passing

« on: December 05, 2015, 09:22:48 am »

Buying a Trinket doesn't help you any more than it does your opponents, and in fact, it's worse for whoever bought it because they had to spend a buy and $2 to get it, whereas everybody else gets it for free.

You may be taking this into account already, but when you buy it, you get a second copy like Port. I think giving a Silver to the other players is a fair penalty to getting 2 Silvers, with or without the other strange effect.

Oops, for some reason, I thought that the on-buy effect replaced gaining it, so you would only get one. *Facepalms.* In that case, ignore what I said, I actually like it.

1462

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mechanics inspired by passing

« on: December 05, 2015, 01:58:49 am »

I actually have some custom cards that I'm testing with similar mechanics. One with a pass-style effect and a set of 4 that use the same token.

I was thinking about making this one cost 3 instead, but I like that it doesn't cost the same as Silver.
http://i.imgur.com/eHAVoHL.jpg

These 4 all use the same Token, so they get more powerful if there is more than one of them in a Kingdom.
http://i.imgur.com/tTCpvhL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ulvB4UE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M1D8UZA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Bx2U0Dd.jpg
As a side note, they won't always be in the kingdom with Potions because the cost doesn't include a Potion, so I tried to make the effects take this into account.

I'm not sure I'm done modifying them, and I don't think the costs are correct yet for Trinket, Magical Hammer, or Magical Sword.

Buying a Trinket doesn't help you any more than it does your opponents, and in fact, it's worse for whoever bought it because they had to spend a buy and $2 to get it, whereas everybody else gets it for free.

1463

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: You make the card: An F.DS community-created fan card! (Part 5.5)

« on: December 04, 2015, 07:05:14 pm »

"Immediately after resolving [a specific or non-specific card],"
"When you draw this other than during your cleanup phase," <== I've made a fan card that has this, and it requires you to reveal it as you draw it, so once you put it into your hand and take your hand off of it, it's too late to reveal it. It also returns itself to the Supply.
"At the start of your turn, [possible condition],"
"At the start/end of your cleanup phase, [possible condition],"
"At the start/end of another player's cleanup phase, [possible condition],"
"When you buy/gain/trash a card costing up to/exactly/less than [some cost],"
"When you buy [a specific or non-specific card],"
"When you gain a copy of this,"
"At the start of your buy phase, [possible condition],"
"At the start of another player's buy phase, [possible condition],"
"When another player trashes a card,"
"When the player to your left/right [Does the following:
Gains/trashes/buys [a specific or non-specific card],
Plays an attack card,
[Any other of my suggested reactions or existing reactions],]"

And to those of you who are suggesting "when another player plays a Treasure card," that doesn't really work. Do you really want everybody to have to play their Treasures one-by-one, pausing between every single one, to check and see if any of the other players will use their reaction card?

1464

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A bunch of custom card ideas, looking for feedback

« on: December 02, 2015, 09:49:13 am »

I like the $4 cost version of Siege Machines better.

I also prefer the $4-cost version for its simplicity but it should probably cost $5. It's very similar to Dame Silvia after all. Also you'd want to clarify whether it trashes one or both (hopefully not) of the revealed cards.

Imp looks good now. A lot of people dislike negative VP but I don't mind as long as it comes with a clever design.

It only reveals one card.

1465

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A bunch of custom card ideas, looking for feedback

« on: December 01, 2015, 08:22:45 pm »

I've scrapped provincial revolt. Yeah, it would be hated.
I've reduced cost of Haunted Castle to $5. Happy with it.
Now onto the problem cards! Two possible versions of Siege Machines:
A:
B:

And taking the advice to simplify Imp:

Now a simpler handsize attack at base, that can typically be effectively stacked only twice. Gives some impetus to keeping two around, maybe. Price raised to $4 to prevent opening with two of them.

I like the $4 cost version of Siege Machines better.

1466

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards

« on: November 30, 2015, 12:02:35 am »

Isn't this version of Conserve strictly better than every $4 cost card ever?

In the sense that you will almost always buy Conserve rather than a $4 cost card, yes.  But I don't think that inherently makes it bad design in this case.  Usually the problem with cards being strictly better than other cards is that when they appear together, the worse card is never bought or gained (outside of edge cases like Swindler/Possession).  With Conserve though, you still play with whatever $4 cards you would normally get, now you just also get an extra little bonus for it.  Like Summon, it wouldn't be bad for it to be amazingly powerful, because it doesn't discourage you from buying other cards.

I disagree, since this makes it so that there's almost no reason not to buy it if you have exactly $4.

But why is that a problem?  I've already explained why it's not a problem in this case.

Playing with the new version of Conserve is basically like playing with a special rule that says "During your buy phase, if you have exactly $4, take a coin token (that can't be spent this turn)".  I don't see how playing some games with this rule makes the game less fun or interesting.  It's not like it trivializes the decision of what to do with $4, since you still have to figure out what card to get after you buy the event.

Okay, you make a good argument. I agree with you, now.

1467

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards

« on: November 29, 2015, 10:04:06 pm »

Isn't this version of Conserve strictly better than every $4 cost card ever?

In the sense that you will almost always buy Conserve rather than a $4 cost card, yes.  But I don't think that inherently makes it bad design in this case.  Usually the problem with cards being strictly better than other cards is that when they appear together, the worse card is never bought or gained (outside of edge cases like Swindler/Possession).  With Conserve though, you still play with whatever $4 cards you would normally get, now you just also get an extra little bonus for it.  Like Summon, it wouldn't be bad for it to be amazingly powerful, because it doesn't discourage you from buying other cards.

I disagree, since this makes it so that there's almost no reason not to buy it if you have exactly $4.

1468

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards

« on: November 29, 2015, 02:14:17 pm »

News that are olds

Reverted some changes:

• Homunculus now doesn't give a buy on buy again. It's good enough allready and the absence makes the opening more strategic.
• Road doesn't require you to discard a card anymore to be returned to your hand (it didn't seem that strong recently).
• And here's another try for Conserve (ignore the unfitting name in this case. It's more like discount/present/change):

Isn't this version of Conserve strictly better than every $4 cost card ever?

1469

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A bunch of custom card ideas, looking for feedback

« on: November 28, 2015, 11:31:24 am »

Siege Machine is strictly better than Dame Sylvia (it does the same thing along with an extra-powerful attack AND is an optional gainer), but costs LESS. I would price it at $7, not $4.

Siege Machines only hits cards costing $3 or $4. Dame Sylvia hits cards costing from $3 to $6.

I don't like the idea of making an attack double-strength if it hits. Is there any reason other than flavor that the victims gain a Ruins?

Oops, I didn't notice that. I think $4 might be good, then.

1470

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A bunch of custom card ideas, looking for feedback

« on: November 27, 2015, 11:52:32 pm »

Siege Machine is strictly better than Dame Sylvia (it does the same thing along with an extra-powerful attack AND is an optional gainer), but costs LESS. I would price it at $7, not $4.

1471

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: You make the card: An F.DS community-created fan card! (Part 2)

« on: November 15, 2015, 09:34:52 am »

I want it to be a Duration - Reserve, because I think that that would be very interesting.

1472

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition

« on: November 02, 2015, 11:46:07 pm »

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.

Would you buy them in a box? Would you buy them with a fox?

BTW, I only dislike both cards because of being too luck-based (and Lookout has forced blind trashing). If Lookout made the trashing optional, I would probably buy it.

1473

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition

« on: November 02, 2015, 08:05:02 pm »

My results:

$0-$2 Cost:
1.) Hamlet   
2.) Squire   
3.) Chapel   
4.) Alms   
5.) Candlestick Maker   
6.) Herbalist   
7.) Quest   
8.) Page   
9.) Embargo   
10.) Cellar   
11.) Travelling Fair   
12.) Raze   
13.) Peasant   
14.) Haven   
15.) Ratcatcher   
16.) Lighthouse   
17.) Courtyard   
18.) Moat   
19.) Save   
20.) Fool's Gold   
21.) Crossroads   
22.) Coin of the Realm   
23.) Vagrant   
24.) Pawn   
25.) Beggar   
26.) Borrow   
27.) Duchess   
28.) Secret Chamber   
29.) Poor House 
30.) Stonemason 
31.) Pearl Diver   
32.) Scouting Party   
33.) Native Village

Squire should be below Chapel. I miss-clicked on the duel between Squire and Chapel.

$3 Cost:
1.) Scheme   
2.) Masquerade   
3.) Ferry   
4.) Gear   
5.) Caravan Guard   
6.) Dungeon   
7.) Shanty Town   
8.) Fishing Village   
9.) Amulet   
10.) Warehouse   
11.) Urchin   
12.) Village   
13.) Ambassador   
14.) Market Square   
15.) Swindler   
16.) Menagerie   
17.) Masterpiece   
18.) Guide   
19.) Hermit   
20.) Develop   
21.) Oasis   
22.) Workshop   
23.) Sage   
24.) Tunnel   
25.) Steward   
26.) Smugglers   
27.) Great Hall   
28.) Wishing Well   
29.) Storeroom   
30.) Watchtower   
31.) Fortune Teller   
32.) Forager   
33.) Expedition   
34.) Chancellor   
35.) Trade Route   
36.) Doctor   
37.) Oracle   
38.) Woodcutter   
39.) Plan   
40.) Bonfire   
41.) Loan   
42.) Lookout   
43.) Black Market 

The only reason Black Market is below Lookout is because I've never played with BM. I hate Lookout with a burning passion. I think I'd sooner buy a card that read, "+1 Action. Gain a Curse" and nothing else. I also hate Loan, but not as much. I've never bought either card in my entire life.

$4 Costs and the rest after dinner.

1474

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Name That Card

« on: October 31, 2015, 06:35:46 pm »

You might want to rephrase 'once for each differently named Action card you have in play other than copies of itself' to 'other than this'; the effect (that you only play the chosen card once unless you've played an action to playing Unnamed Card) will be the same, and will be less wordy.

As for the name, perhaps Troubadour, since a Troubadour is only interesting if he knows a wide variety of songs?

I think the wording should be a choose one.

"Choose one: +1 card +1 action; or, choose a card..."

I agree, those are much better wordings. I especially don't know why I didn't use a choose one like GendoIkari suggests. And after looking up what a Troubadour is, I agree that that's a good name. I think I'll use that.

1475

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Wording Challenge 3: Artifact

« on: October 31, 2015, 06:30:19 pm »

Pick a card you have in play. If it is face up, gain a copy of it. Flip the card you picked face down.

That is a good wording.

However, recent playtesting has given us an example of just how big the Grand Canyon of a strength gap between $4 and $5-cost cards is. At $4, it was beyond a God-tier card, it was a must-buy. As in, more of a must-buy than even Chapel. At $5, it was barely better than a junk-tier card. So, we decided to drop the limit on gaining and keep its cost at $5 (still can't gain itself, of course).