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26
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« on: January 28, 2018, 05:34:45 pm »
You can buy a Ruins, you can't buy a Hex.  I guess.

There are things that are not in the Supply.
For everything else, there's Mastercard.

Now with PotionMaster™, the safest way to make your Alchemical shopping online.

27
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holunder's cards
« on: January 28, 2018, 05:11:16 pm »
Luck, Event, 4$
Once per game: Take Lucky, but not from another player.

This makes me think, can I take Miserable from another player?
I think I can.

28
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Meld
« on: January 28, 2018, 01:46:39 pm »
Incubator looks very cool but the combination of random targeting and "+2" remodeling might make it very swingy - both at the beginning (Estate vs Copper) and at the end (random Province gains).
What if it revealed 3, put two into hand, and remodeled the third (gaining to hand)? It's much more powerful, but 3p is pretty expensive. You could always make it a "up to +1 coin" remodel. The Transmogrify-like flexibility would more than make up for the more limited gaining.

I've thought about this some more, and even with the Potion cost, this might be very strong in a Big Money setting. Estates to silvers and Potion to something nonterminal is pretty impressive, and occasionally milling Provinces even more so. It also tolerates very well nonterminal additions to the deck, because if you'd draw them dead you can just incubate them into some treasure, or a Duchy. Beware.
(Otoh, it's also a decent Engine component, for flexibility and stuff).

29
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Possession alternative?
« on: January 28, 2018, 01:39:00 pm »
I think I disagree with the assessment of Possession's problems. Possession is a rule nightmare, but its main problem is that it stacks. The "watch people use your deck" part is great fun.

Your Possession scales really powerfully (what other card is twice as good with three players, thrice as good with four?), and the "antistack" clause doesn't actually work, because the below-the-line effects stack (compare with Highway). You could say "while you have exactly one...."

In addition, you need to specify "when another player gains a nonvictory card during their turn, blah blah". Otherwise two players having Possession Alternative in play will drain any pile.

Also notice that you can still easily circumvent the antideadlock clause by trashing or discarding your treasures. Such an easily circumventable barrier might not be worth the extra complexity.

For me personally, Possession's attractiveness comes from the fun of Possessing people. A number of Smuggler variants can simulate that, and some very interesting ones have been proposed on these boards, but I want to Possess people, so they won't ever do it for me.

My favourite Possession fix is LastFootnote's no-nonsense "once-per-turn, may-not-trash" version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9978.msg703107#msg703107

30
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Boons
« on: January 23, 2018, 08:34:32 am »
I agree, but druid is an exception, because it's both predictable and it lets you choose boon. In all other cases the boons are random, and often come up at awkward times. In that setting River is more often better, I think.

31
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Boons
« on: January 23, 2018, 05:34:26 am »
I don't get why River's Gift is above Sun's Gift here. Sun's Gift at the end of the turn is basically duration draw when it discards green cards, and it can discard Coppers too. Sun's Gift does a much better job at preventing dud turns than River's Gift. River's gift is only going to be better when your next hand was already pretty perfect or if you got it at the start of your turn when your top of deck had no junk. That or you spam River's Gift with King's Court on Druid. You're more likely to lose a game due to a dud turn than not having your perfect hand be more perfect.

Edit: Well, River's Gift also has the edge when your next hand is all cantrips or something, to be fair.

River Gift is much much better when you are drawing your deck, which is big.

This is true, but Sun's Gift is a lot more relevant when you get it before you actually get to the point where you're drawing your deck, possibly speeding you up by a turn with its combined cycling and ability to help reach higher price points more easily. Bard, Tracker, Blessed Village, and Idol are all often seen in the early game where you still have a sizeable deck. Maybe Pixie is an exception where you don't want to trash it for Sun's Gift. Sun's Gift can also make up for the lack of draw compared to River's Gift later in the turn if received when you're trying to kick off, say after playing a Village.

Weighing the Boons solely in the context of massive engines seems like it doesn't give a complete picture of what these Boons are truly capable of.

See it this way: the ceiling for Sun is higher (discarding 4 bad cards, or doing some turn-saving reordering), but it's much less reliable. River helps you every single time, no matter what deck you're building (edge cases: very small deck, minion).
Most Boons are situational, but River is a sure thing.

32
10) =0 Summon (Promo)
9) ▼3 Dominate (Empires)
8) ▼1 Save (Adventures)
7) ▼2 Alms (Adventures)
6) ▼2 Inheritance (Adventures)
5) ▲3 Bonfire (Adventures)
4) ▲1 Lost Arts (Adventures)
3) ▼1 Ferry (Adventures)
2) ▲1 Pathfinding (Adventures)
1) =0 Donate (Empires)

Does the dissonance between the direction of the arrows and the ordering of the list bother anyone else?

Think of it this way: the arrow points at the spot where the card used to be.

33
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Meld
« on: January 22, 2018, 12:09:54 pm »
Incubator looks very cool but the combination of random targeting and "+2" remodeling might make it very swingy - both at the beginning (Estate vs Copper) and at the end (random Province gains).
What if it revealed 3, put two into hand, and remodeled the third (gaining to hand)? It's much more powerful, but 3p is pretty expensive. You could always make it a "up to +1 coin" remodel. The Transmogrify-like flexibility would more than make up for the more limited gaining.

34
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Boons
« on: January 22, 2018, 10:11:44 am »
I don't get why River's Gift is above Sun's Gift here. Sun's Gift at the end of the turn is basically duration draw when it discards green cards, and it can discard Coppers too. Sun's Gift does a much better job at preventing dud turns than River's Gift. River's gift is only going to be better when your next hand was already pretty perfect or if you got it at the start of your turn when your top of deck had no junk. That or you spam River's Gift with King's Court on Druid. You're more likely to lose a game due to a dud turn than not having your perfect hand be more perfect.

Edit: Well, River's Gift also has the edge when your next hand is all cantrips or something, to be fair.

River Gift is much much better when you are drawing your deck, which is big.

35
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Boons
« on: January 22, 2018, 09:22:37 am »
I'd swap sun and wind, but the rest seems reasonable. Maybe swap swamp and earth too. And the treasure gainers are almost certainly better than sea.
I don't think I've managed to have a consequential Moon yet. Maybe if it gave the full Scavenger experience it would have been useful more often.

36
Another thing worth noting is that self-trashing Distant Lands (or Island) would enable some endless loops with Rogue, Lurker, and Graverobber. The potential for that sort of things is already there, though.

37
Oh, and of course debt and the -coin token do the same thing, except one doesn't stack.
Every player without debt takes one debt works almost exactly like bridge troll, and ball could cost 4 coins and one debt and be just a tad weaker.

No, Ball could cost 5 coins and one debt.

Yeah, of course. I wasn't paying attention.

38
Oh, and of course debt and the -coin token do the same thing, except one doesn't stack.
Every player without debt takes one debt works almost exactly like bridge troll, and ball could cost 4 coins and one debt and be just a tad weaker.

39
Nomad camp could easily have used Save/Gear technology and it wouldn't have been close to being op. Heck, even autosummoning Nomad Camps wouldn't be broken.

Some of the very expensive, snowballing cards could have had a less swingy price, had debt been available. I'm mostly thinking of King's Court.

Scheme could have been a Night card and it would have been much simpler (but weaker).

HoP is definitely a Night card from before Night cards existed. Of course you get the nice "gain a treasure" interactions. But it's much easier to explain as Night.

A lot of one-shots and on-gains could've been Events, and a lot of them got similar Event versions. Embargo (Tax), Cache (Banquet), Nomad Camp (see Travelling Fair), Ill-Gotten Gains (albeit with much less 3-pile potential)...

40
I'm a level 55ish player. I generally (around 80%?) go for rebuild when it's in the kingdom, and in my limited experience it's very rare that I lose to a non-rebuild strategy, playing the vast majority of my games against players of level 45-60.

I don't doubt that rebuild is beatable on a lot of boards, but if you need to be an excellent player to reliably figure out how, that isn't a great proof of rebuild's weakness.

No other card lets me put the same amount of pressure on a more skilled opponent.

41
There once was a poor Vagrant who wandered from town to town, accomplishing virtually nothing. One day, a kindly business owner with wares to sell took pity upon him and gave him some job Training. He's now very successful, gathering even more green than the other Peddlers.

When Vagrant + Training came up in an IRL game, I had to laugh at Vagrant + Training = Peddler. It's even something worth doing.

It is not too surprising to me that the Adventure card enhancer tokens have on average a better return on investment on cheap pedestrian cards than on the Grand Markets. Vagrants being able to draw themselves is an awesome bonus of course.

I suspect you're mixing that up with Inherited Vagrants... :)

42
Imp, on the other hand, is a very good Prince target.

Oh sorry wrong thread.

43
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Fool is a pity
« on: January 10, 2018, 05:29:02 pm »
I do not dislike Fool. It's not even close to being one of the cards that I actually find annoying to play with (namely Cultist, Rebuild, Possession, Smugglers, Save, Scrying Pool, King's Court).
Smugglers, Save, and King's Court are all pretty sweet as-is. I would drop the attack from Scrying Pool, and use the fix someone here suggested of having Cultist either play another or hand out Ruins, your choice. I would not do Rebuild and Possession; I don't think I would try to fix them up, I would just abandon those concepts.

How much of a problem a card is though depends a lot on what kind of players you have, and whether or not they're online. For a typical casual group IRL, Rebuild isn't a problem at all. It's some card, they might buy it or not, it doesn't dominate. You have to say, no no guys, read these threads, to cause a problem. Whereas Fool makes that group's first Nocturne game painfully slow.

I'm not saying that Smugglers, Save and KC should be any different. Of course you cannot please everybody.

44
Game Reports / Re: Figuring out the golden deck here
« on: January 10, 2018, 02:40:42 pm »


 I strongly believe you want a catapult here. I’m not sure about the optimal realisation; the best version I can spot is

T1 buy catapult
T2 donate, keep 5 coppers
T3 catapult copper, pay debt (granted, there‘s a 1/6 risk to miss catapult, but I think the extra coin is worth trying).
T4 catapult copper,  buy silver
T5 catapult copper, buy silver
T6 catapult copper, buy goons
T7 play goons, buy artificer

In the next turns, we get diplomats/artificers/goons while catapulting the remaining copper and the silvers.

I think that this beats any non-catapult-strategy handily which will have a hard time to get a T6 goons under permanent attack, and still has some leftover coppers on top.

In practice, it will play out quite differently if both players get catapults, but that‘s the whole point: you need a catapult here.

My opponent hit 6 on turn 3 so this would probably not have applied in my game, but in general Silver/Silver/[Silver/Donate/Payback]/Goons would be unaffected by the discard attack, right?
aku_chi's version gets Goons one turn earlier than our solutions but it suffers from the catapult.
Of course later in the game you get to catapult the Silvers, but between Diplomat and Donate I was suprised by how little the curses hurt me.

45
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Meld
« on: January 10, 2018, 02:24:30 pm »
They seem interesting!
Nimble seems perfect, and I wouldn't add +Buy for the reasons you stated.
Majestic seems very weak. Considering that it's in a trio of can-be-necropolis and terminal draw, using it as draw seems awkward, and as a support card I can see it being enraging when it makes your good-but-unique cards miss the shuffle (eg. potion or meld, as you said).
Raging Chimera could maybe be more straightforward by simply setting an amount of allowed Treasures (or Actions)?
Something like: "every other player reveals their hand. If they revealed three or more Treasures, they discard down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, they gain a Curse."
Then you can make it stack really weird by adding: "...and draw a card."

Maybe the better limit is 2 treasures, but that wouldn't curse very often...

Anyway, my only other criticism is that it's 3 draw cards. Maybe the Majestic spot can be filled by some sort of funky non-attack payload card?

46
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Fool is a pity
« on: January 10, 2018, 01:57:31 pm »
I do not dislike Fool. It's not even close to being one of the cards that I actually find annoying to play with (namely Cultist, Rebuild, Possession, Smugglers, Save, Scrying Pool, King's Court).

It does have a very steep learning curve, though, requiring you to learn 16 cards during the course of the first game with it, 12 of which are not openly available for you to read at all times. That's twice as much as the Castles, which are definitely not considered a newbie-friendly card. No other Fate card churns through the Boons that fast, and revealing one boon at the time, they require less imput from the player. Normally boons happen to you, but with Fool you really have to make a bit more effort to understand in what order to play the three you drew.

I've already said it elsewhere, but I think that the coupling of Lucky coin and Fool was unfortunate. It makes players more likely to get an early Fool even when they'd usually not, just because Silver is so much less attractive. This makes almost every Fool game a Fool game.

I think Lost in the Woods is definitely the most fun part about Fool. If they told me that Fool was being magically errataed into "If you don't have LitW, +2 coins, and take LitW", I would not object.

47
Game Reports / Figuring out the golden deck here
« on: January 10, 2018, 08:59:26 am »
Today I played a very interesting game against Angalagon91. Unfortunately, he had to leave and the game was really going to be a slow one, but I'd have loved to play it out.
The game number is 10475297. Unfortunately my subscription has run out so I cannot load it, but going by memory:



Not entirely sure about mine, but it's irrelevant.

We both stumbled a lot in the beginning, he tried to curse me with IGG-Catapult (which is definitely inefficient thanks to Donate) and I bought cards a bit randomly before spotting the triple Goons golden deck. (Donating each turn, and ending the game on Estate, Curse and Chapel/Beggar)
As I was getting ready to fire the deck, Angalagon had to leave.
Now the interesting part: the simple Dip-Goon golden deck needs your opponent to play Goons to work. So, I believe an appropriate response for Angalagon would have been to stop playing goons and switch to Wild Hunt-Money. He was ahead on points so he might have been able to put toghether the golden deck before I caught up, I'm not sure. I got ready to make the switch to WH, but I don't think it was the right move.

After the game I noticed that using Artificer, the golden deck wouldn't need the opponent's goons. So I think the deck here is 3x Goons, 2x Diplomat, 1x Artificer and a Gold which is not strictly necessary but speeds up the endgame.
Still, it was a fun board to try and figure out.

Edit: fixed IGG's image in kingdom

48
Other Games / Re: Zachtronics Games
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:51:03 am »
Reading the first posts I thought, "this really reminds me of Codex of Alchemical Engineering", and it turns out it was an apt connection.  ;D

I loved it, and I think I also tried KOHCTPYKTOP but didn't get very far with it...

I'll look into their new games, thanks for the suggestion!

49
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« on: January 04, 2018, 08:00:03 pm »
We need more empire style expansions.

What exactly makes an expansion "empire-style"?

All in all I'm happy about Nocturne. It has a sort of "rough-around-the-edges" feel that we hadn't seen in an expansion in a long time, but it also tries to do a lot of different stuff, more so than Empires for sure. There's only a few cards that I really wish were different or didn't exist, and none seems to be as bad as Cultist or Rebuild, not even close.

50
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« on: January 03, 2018, 06:23:45 am »
Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night / Victory
If you have more victory cards in play than tokens on your constellation mat and haven't put any tokens on the mat this turn, put a token on your constellation mat.
If you have no cards in your discard pile, take Clear Skies.
-
This is worth 1VP for every two tokens on your constellation mat.

Quote
Clear Skies
State
While you have this, you may play Estates, Duchies, and Provinces as if they were action cards with "+$1".
At the end of your buy phase, return this.

It seems very weak.
Clear Skies is very hard to get because you have to skip your buy phase or only buy events, and gives a very small benefit, unless you really have plenty of actions and draw.
Astrologers build up very slowly, and have a very low cap: uncontested, they'll give you 5 points per card if you have a monster deck able to repeatedly draw 10 dead cards, ignoring Clear Sky which is unwieldy to get and even worse to profit from.
Also, I suspect that some form of vp-token Night card might do what this wants to do more smoothly, and with fewer balance problems with regard to the split and so on.

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