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Messages - tripwire

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126
Feedback / Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« on: November 09, 2015, 10:11:27 pm »

This thread. I had high hopes for it and planned to post tons of useful things in there. I no longer even read this thread because I got frustrated with all of the off-topic discussion that happened there.

That's unfortunate because people continue to post little "combos" in that thread to this day. I actually think that the thread is evidence of some of the things LastFootnote suggests, such as the fact that threads can return to a topic after going off topic for a while.

That being said, the fact that you have stopped posting in there despite feeling like you have more things to post is also evidence that off-topic chatter will prevent some people from making substantive posts.

I look forward to the poll.

PPE: And wero beats me to it. Man lurking's so much easier  :P

127
Feedback / Re: A place for more moderated discussion
« on: November 09, 2015, 09:03:08 pm »
...I'll stand behind that it was off-topic...

I just want to respond to this first because I think this is what worries people about your proposal the most, as evidenced by Withweaver, Deadlock, and jsh's comments. (I'd provide quotes, but I'm bad at posting, which is why I never do it.)

I'm going to try to explain why jsh's comments seem on topic.

If I am understanding correctly, the topic is "A place for more moderated discussion." In each of jsh's posts (disregarding whether he is personally attacking you or not) he gives at least one reason why he thinks a place such as that would be a bad idea in each of his posts. This is on topic.

Maybe you hoped that this paragraph:


Some people think that having moderated discussion is a bad thing, I would say to those people that they are not required to read or participate in moderated discussion. If those people are worried that nobody would participate in moderated discussion, then I would say to those people that silence is preferable to irrelevant noise. If those people choose to disagree with that statement, then I respect their opinion and would like to remind them that they are not required to read or participate in this moderated discussion, and also to please consider that other people out there may have a different opinion and would like to have a place to talk under these guidelines.


says that this is not the thread to discuss whether such a place is a good idea or not. But it doesn't actually say that. Therefore, I do not see why jsh's posts should be considered off-topic.

Finally, you suggest this is just evidence that you shouldn't be the one to moderate these things, but that suggests that another moderator wouldn't remove posts like jsh's. If that's the case, would this hypothetical space on the forum even serve the function that you want it to?

Edit: Since there's no reason for you to have any idea who I am, I just want to also add that I appreciate your presence in this community, Adam, and hope that even if this solution doesn't pan out I hope you can find a way to stick around.  :)

128
I just always ask people how much strategy advice they want, if any at all.

I think this is a great solution, and I'm kicking myself at how obvious it is and that I've never done it before.


What are people's thoughts about new players using extra buys to buy coppers? That's the number one thing I feel like I can't help but step in and advise them against. When people buy too many terminals, they can easily see the consequences of that decision when they collide. When players never get above 5 dollars, I think it's hard for them to realize that might be because they bought tons of extra copper for no reason. As a result, I end up advising them not to buy those extra coppers, but then I feel guilty because I'm telling them what to do.

Suggestions on how to address this problem?

129
Should you sandbag when playing with new players? I never know if I should play engine or not with newbies because it could be frustrating/boring to them. But if I don't play engine then they won't see why the game is so cool.

I think the type of player who is going to find watching you play a perfect engine the first few games to be really interesting is the same type of player who would have no trouble jumping into full random right off the bat.

I think the biggest problem with going full engine is that many players don't want to sit through each of your turns while you draw your deck. You should be giving people the chance to play the game, not letting them watch you play.

So, if your playing with people who you think need to start with a simpler kingdom, I'd think you'd also want to play "suboptimally."

130
The previews today just solidified how good a choice it was to bring duration cards back. Based on many of the previous previews, I was worried things would be a little too difficult for many players I play with to parse (I regularly play with my nephews at family gatherings, and cards that have a ton of moving parts can be tough), but I think a lot of these cards are really straightforward, despite doing new and interesting things. Bringing back durations was a great choice. Thanks Donald!

But man, regardless if Swamp Hag is good or not, pretty sure the people I play with that hate being attacked are going to hate this card even more. Being a sadist, though, I consider that a good thing.

131
Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Storyteller
« on: March 30, 2015, 07:01:15 pm »
Is there a big difference between these two cards? I'm saying no. Certainly not a "very, very big" one as someone was hilariously claiming.

Maybe the problem is that people have different definitions for "big." So for you, it doesn't meet your criteria for "big," but it meets others' criteria. I think the important thing is that Donald said he tested both and the +$1 version worked better. That's really all that matters. Who cares if the difference qualifies as "big" or not?

Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.

132
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rate the Expansions!
« on: March 07, 2015, 09:46:14 pm »
Why no love for Guilds? (I was the only one who voted for it at the time of this post) Is it just because it's small?

I feel like a number of the cards are able to play so many different roles in different decks. Stonemason alone is tons of fun! It can be virtual +buy, it creates amazing pile control, sometimes it shows up in a hand where you just use it to trash a 0 cost, and that moment when you stonemason a Hunting Grounds for a point swing and win is just good times.

Along those same lines, I'm curious about all the love for Prosperity. Don't get me wrong, it's a great expansion (there's no expansion I dislike), but I don't know what makes it that much more loved than other large expansions (it's tied with DA at 8 atm). Sure, victory tokens are fun, but coin tokens are more interesting imo. Is it because colonies favor engines? Because of KC? Because of nostalgia?

133
Other Games / Re: Kickstarter games
« on: October 20, 2014, 02:44:24 pm »
Hey all,

I'm momentarily coming out of my lurker status again to highlight the kickstarter for the One Night Ultimate Werewolf expansion: Daybreak.  Although the game had tremendous support right out of the gate and immediately reached its goal and then some, it's lost a little steam and I'm worried that it won't reach its final stretch goal. But I want that final role, so I thought I'd post about it here  ;D If someone else has already mentioned it somewhere, sorry, I didn't see it.

Anyway, ONUW is an absolute blast. Unlike most social deduction games, you're not always sure who you are at the end, so it means you need to figure out your own role as well as everyone else's. It also means everyone (even the lowly villagers) should be willing to lie like crazy.   :D

Daybreak is adding a ton of interesting new roles to the game that will increase strategic possibilities, mess with the metagame, and encourage lying in all new ways!

On the kickstarter you also get additional characters that won't be in the retail version. So, I highly recommend checking it out.

134
Other Games / Re: Dead of Winter
« on: October 20, 2014, 02:13:10 pm »
Did the game have enough tension between personal/group objectives? Because that's what I'm most worried about.

I've played this game a couple times now (each time has been really fun, different, and interesting) and in each of those playthroughs there have been no traitor. But each time someone's personal objective has forced them to behave like a betrayer, making other players suspicious.

For example, one player had to end the game with only medicine in their hand. This led them to play a ton of cards even though our trash pile was already threatening our morale. We all assumed they were deliberately trying to drop morale and we exiled them.

In another, we all worked together to figure out how to successfully meet our objective that round. We were all confident that we were going to win. The last player in the round only needed to kill one more zombie and we'd win. But, when it got to their turn, they didn't follow through with the plan because they hadn't met their personal objective yet. If they ended the game then, they would lose. As a result, we went from a sure thing to everybody losing.

In other words, yes, there's enough tension (at least in my experience so far). Even when there's no traitor, personal objectives often make it seem like there is one. It also prevents the game from being controlled by any one player even if everyone is on the same side.

135
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: April 17, 2014, 01:37:35 am »
I liked the old Craftsman, and I don't buy any arguments about complexity (I don't think any person that's ever visited these forums has trouble counting odd numbers)

My concern about the old Craftsman's complexity wasn't that people would have a hard time counting, it was more that the card didn't feel intuitive. The problem with that is that cards that aren't intuitive are more difficult to commit to memory quickly. The example I gave in my earlier post regarding Butcher demonstrates this issue. It's not that the people I play with can't figure out what Butcher does, it's that they have to re-read the card every time they play it. That makes the game much slower and less enjoyable for everyone, imo.

And, you're absolutely right that none of these things would be problems for the people who frequent these forums, but I doubt many people here regularly play with other forum members in real life. (maybe I'm wrong and you all hang out all the time...) Coupling that with the fact that these cards can only really be used irl, then it matters how the audience outside these forums would react to them.

Quote
Craftsman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may spend a Trade token. If you do, gain a card costing up to $5. Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Action, and take a Trade token

Although this card lacks some of the flexibility of the original version, I like it much better. In addition to addressing my concerns, this new Craftsman just has much more of its own identity now. I also like how it works even better as a support card for other trade token strategies now. It definitely gets my vote, and I'll be interested to hear how playtests go with it. Kudos LastFootnote.

136
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: March 31, 2014, 05:32:32 pm »
This is my first post on this forum (I lurk a lot though), and I think the fact that your set made me want to make a post is a really good sign. So, good work on the set. It’s exciting, especially now that any new Donald X. expansion is less likely.

Disclaimer: Sorry, I haven’t playtested any of your cards, so these are just my thoughts from looking at them. I’m not really going to respond on the strategic value of the cards, but rather if they excite me or not. Although I certainly believe that a card may not look fun but be fun when it’s actually played, I think there is value in player reactions without playtesting. I mean, if a card doesn’t look fun or interesting, I’m not going to buy it in the first place. So this might be too personally subjective, but I hope it’s still useful. Alright, with that out of the way, here’s my thoughts:

I feel like too many cards in the expansion are conditional labs. There’s Gambler, Convocation, and Vendor. The first two seem sufficiently different and interesting that I think it’s fine, but Vendor just looks so boring next to those cards. It’s an ok card (and I’m sure plays differently than both Gambler and Convocation), but it seems so much less inspired when the other two cards exist in the same set. When I read it, I think “wait, isn’t there already a card like this in the expansion?” rather than, “that looks fun.”

Similarly, there’s too many cards that gain cards based on some other value: Redistrict, Mill Town, Craftsman, and Exchange. Each of these cards turns different resources into cards. I think I remember someone else complaining before about there being too many “remodels” in the set. I can only guess that this is part of the reason. Mill Town looks the most fun because it adds a new goal that doesn’t exist in Dominion (get as many copper in my hand as I can). Redistrict seems ok because of its versatility and low cost for this type of card. Exchange’s trade token ability seems fun, but I don’t find “non-terminal Remodel” to be all that interesting. Craftsman, I’m really not a fan of. First, I anticipate it being confusing. My friends always have to re-read Butcher every time they play it, and this is worse. The fact that trade tokens = two coin increments and that it starts at 1 all make it less intuitive than Butcher. Also, I don’t like the fact that this gets trade tokens on play. I think there’s value in all of the trade tokens being on gain/buy and only one at a time. And now that Jubilee returns itself back to the supply and can be an unbounded supply of trade tokens, Craftsman seems even less necessary.

Would a more standard Workshop variant with a trade token ability to put the gained card in hand be too similar to Workshop/Armory? Oddly, even though this is more similar to existing cards, I find it to be more compelling in this set than Craftsman or Exchange.

I’ll end on a more positive note with cards that look really fun to me:

Clerk – simple, but makes me think of situations that could make it really cool (e.g. Mill Town).

Jubilee – simple, looks fun on its own, but even more so with other trade token cards around.

Gambler – simple (there might be a theme here), an all-upside lookout variant.

Guide – I dream of playing this card 5 times with only one copy.

Floodgate – simple, but has many complex interactions/uses (this seems to be a perfect example of “lenticular design”). It also is a different way to make a “one-shot.”

Terrace – same as floodgate: seems really simple (village with mulligan), but could be incredible in certain situations (e.g. disappearing money).

Barracks – New way to do a pretty basic attack (something I imagine is very difficult these days), and can be used a couple different ways on different boards.

Convocation – encourages deck diversity in a slightly new way.

Fund – looks fun. And it also allows someone to play more on the “big money” end of things but still have opportunities for interesting decisions (when to pop the fund?) over the course of the game.


Sorry, I don’t have the chance to playtest (I’d love to if I could). Hopefully this was still helpful though.

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