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Messages - luser

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101
Just found that quest with some buy completely counters haunted woods. Sometimes you even get gold.

102
Game Reports / Re: How to lose with base game engine.
« on: February 07, 2017, 12:50:24 pm »
We need the "Magical Losses" thread back from when MF had bad matchmaking; Quick Match is basically voluntarily bad matchmaking, so it's the same kind of content generated.

Yes, its relatively common for me now when I see only 2 players in queue and nobody comes for good match.

103
Game Reports / How to lose with base game engine.
« on: February 07, 2017, 11:18:18 am »
This was one from base games when I got bored waiting for good match. And it was one of my notable loses as here I had worst possible luck despite good start.

I opened chapel/witch with standard plan to trash down and with workshop add villages and smithies for engine that will quickly pile out gardens. Ball should accelerate that.

As opponent opened workshop/silver it looked like easy win.

But then I got completely screwed by rng. I had 3 turns where I drawn 2 smithies, 2 witches without village and couldn't play anything and turns playing only villages without single drawer. as they miss the shuffle while opponent manages somewhat with his two chapels to trash down and then win because I greened with gardens one turn and expected that engine will work, antd not to get hands of 2 smithies, witch and workshop.

Code: [Select]
l
starts with 7 Coppers
and 3 Estates
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.
l
starts with 7 Coppers
and 3 Estates
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 5 Coppers
.

Turn 1 - Der Paddler
D
plays 4 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Workshop
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 1 - luser
l
plays 5 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Witch
.
l
draws 2 Coppers
and 3 Estates
.

Turn 2 - Der Paddler
D
plays 3 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Silver
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 2 - luser
l
plays 2 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Chapel
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 3 Coppers
, an Estate
and a Chapel
.

Turn 3 - Der Paddler
D
plays 3 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Village
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 3 - luser
l
plays a Chapel
.
l
trashes 3 Coppers
and an Estate
.
l
draws 4 Coppers
and a Witch
.

Turn 4 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Smithy
.
D
plays a Silver
and 3 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Festival
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 4 - luser
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws 2 Estates
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays 3 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Silver
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 3 Coppers
, a Silver
and a Witch
.

Turn 5 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Village
.
D
plays 2 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Chapel
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 5 - luser
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Copper
and an Estate
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays a Silver
and 3 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Festival
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Copper
, an Estate
, a Chapel
, a Festival
and a Witch
.

Turn 6 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays 5 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Festival
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 6 - luser
l
plays a Festival
.
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Copper
and an Estate
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays a Chapel
.
l
trashes a Copper
and 2 Estates
.
l
plays a Copper
.
l
buys and gains a Workshop
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 3 Coppers
, a Silver
and a Workshop
.

Turn 7 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Silver
and 2 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Silver
and a Village
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 7 - luser
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Village
.
l
plays a Silver
and 3 Coppers
.
l
buys a Ball
.
l
gains a Smithy
and a Village
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 2 Coppers
, a Chapel
, a Festival
and a Witch
.

Turn 8 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Smithy
.
D
plays 2 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Chapel
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 8 - luser
l
plays a Festival
.
l
returns -Coin token set by Ball.
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Smithy
and a Village
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Copper
.
l
plays a Smithy
.
l
draws a Silver
, a Village
and a Workshop
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Village
.
l
plays a Chapel
.
l
trashes a Copper
.
l
plays a Silver
and 2 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Witch
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Chapel
, a Festival
and 3 Villages
.

Turn 9 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes a Curse
and 2 Coppers
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 9 - luser
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Copper
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Copper
.
l
plays a Festival
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Workshop
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Workshop
.
l
plays 2 Coppers
.
l
buys and gains a Smithy
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Silver
, 2 Smithies
and 2 Witches
.

Turn 10 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays 2 Silvers
and a Copper
.
D
buys and gains a Gold
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 10 - luser
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Chapel
and a Workshop
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
draws a Copper
, a Festival
, 2 Villages
and a Workshop
.

Turn 11 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Village
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 11 - luser
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Copper
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Village
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Silver
.
l
plays a Festival
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Smithy
.
l
plays a Silver
and 2 Coppers
.
l
buys a Ball
.
l
gains a Smithy
and a Village
.
l
draws a Chapel
, 2 Smithies
and 2 Witches
.

Turn 12 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes a Curse
, 2 Coppers
and an Estate
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 12 - luser
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Copper
, a Silver
, 2 Villages
and a Workshop
.

Turn 13 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes 3 Curses
and an Estate
.
D
plays 2 Coppers
.
D
buys and gains a Village
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 13 - luser
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Chapel
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Workshop
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Village
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Smithy
.
l
plays a Silver
.
l
returns -Coin token set by Ball.
l
plays a Copper
.
l
draws a Copper
, 3 Smithies
and a Witch
.

Turn 14 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Workshop
.
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes a Copper
.
D
plays a Silver
.
D
buys and gains a Smithy
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 14 - luser
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Festival
and a Witch
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws 2 Smithies
, 2 Villages
and a Workshop
.

Turn 15 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Gardens
.
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes 2 Coppers
, an Estate
and a Chapel
.
D
plays a Silver
and a Gold
.
D
buys and gains a Laboratory
.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 15 - luser
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Festival
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Smithy
.
l
plays a Smithy
.
l
draws 2 Smithies
and a Village
.
l
plays a Festival
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Workshop
.
l
plays a Smithy
.
l
draws a Copper
, a Village
and a Witch
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Silver
.
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws a Village
and a Witch
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays a Village
.
l
draws a Copper
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Workshop
.
l
plays a Witch
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Chapel
and a Workshop
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Gardens
.
l
plays a Workshop
.
l
gains a Gardens
.
l
plays a Silver
and 2 Coppers
.
l
buys a Ball
.
l
gains 2 Gardens
.
l
shuffles their deck.
l
draws a Copper
, a Gardens
, 2 Smithies
and a Witch
.

Turn 16 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Laboratory
.
D
draws 2 cards
.
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Gardens
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Gardens
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Chapel
.
D
trashes 3 Curses
.
D
plays 2 Silvers
and a Gold
.
D
buys and gains a Silver
and a Province
.
D
shuffles their deck.
D
draws 5 cards
.

Turn 16 - luser
l
plays a Witch
.
l
draws 2 Villages
.
D
gains a Curse
.
l
draws a Chapel
, a Gardens
, 2 Smithies
and a Workshop
.

Turn 17 - Der Paddler
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Laboratory
.
D
draws 2 cards
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Smithy
.
D
draws 3 cards
.
D
plays a Festival
.
D
plays a Village
.
D
draws a card
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Gardens
.
D
plays a Workshop
.
D
gains a Smithy
.
D
plays 2 Silvers
and a Gold
.
D
buys and gains a Province
.

Waiting for Der Paddler
.

104
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

It also requires three unique components.

I mean, the real interaction here is just the tfair and tmap, which won't be that uncommon. Under normal circumstances, that would take 10 money...and 10 money for 4 golds is a pretty good value. There are a ton of other cards which will make this combo easier to pull off though (such as ferry).

Its more general, as there are several combos on same principle. It needs cost reduction and top-decking. Ferry and stonemason are best as are always available, you could use quarry with reliable topdecking and maybe bridge.

For topdecking you could use tfair, watchtower and royal seal.

So there are more combos, some need more  support as they rely on two unreliable components.

105
tfair+ferry+tmap is great, in one game I opened baron/ferry tmap, on turn 3 hit 6 from baron to topdeck two maps and get golds on turn 4.

106
Game Reports / Re: I like Gardens, but not the strategy
« on: February 04, 2017, 04:35:12 pm »
I seen lot of games like these (with 2 nonbase cards).  Trick is to open silver chapel to get witch, village and workshop and then build an engine that empties gardens in few turns with three workshops.

107
Game Reports / Re: Possible improper use of UNDO
« on: February 04, 2017, 04:31:46 pm »
I find that my most common uses of Undo involve forgetting to play treasures before buying debt  cards.

Yes, thats problem of autobuy that it should play all for debt cards.

108
Dominion Articles / Re: Opening Probabilities: A Study
« on: January 27, 2017, 01:08:43 am »
Steward stuff there is nonsense. Double steward is great because it gives you more options to trash. Economywise only way silver is better is when it collides with steward then you could get 3 cost instead nothing for steward collision. It is more likely to hit 5 and trash with double steward than with silver as you could use t3 steward as silver if it hits five and trash estates on t4 or trash estates at t3 and use second one as silver on turn 4.

109
Let's Discuss ... / Re: let's discuss guilds cards: doctor
« on: January 12, 2017, 02:01:40 am »
Later trashing using doctor isn't that important. Important part of it is overpay, ideally 5/2 where you could pretty reliably trash 2 estates. 2/5 Is worse due to reshuffling making drawing doctor less probable. Other strategy is to use middle game big overpay. Note that for 4 doctor doesn't increase deck size much as it often replaces junk that you trashed.

As trashing copper its most of times correct move unless you are sure there are likely more estates than coppers or you trashed down lot of copper. That is because multiple trashing with doctor is more effective as it cycles coppers that you trashed.

In midgame doctor is almost useless as there is rarely junk in next three cards, unless you have warehouse/other sifter to discard three curses after drawing deck and trash them.

110
Let's Discuss ... / Re: let's discuss guilds cards: candlestick maker
« on: January 08, 2017, 12:45:32 pm »
Also there is candlestick maker/pathfinding combo as you could quickly get lot of csm, and collect tokens to quickly get pathfinding to turn them into bakers with buy.

Another synergies is with scrying pool, tactician and draw to X. csm/jack is quite strong bm variant.

Other than that you want 1-2 csm in your engine in midgame as these are not space effective source of coin.

111
I found out with new domion online that weaker players may not overrate gardens but is result of them not buying expansions. I played a lot of 8 base 2 other cards and there engines that aim for gardens are quite strong, if you get 4 workshops to play each turn in endgame.

112
Dominion Articles / Re: Trade
« on: January 05, 2017, 04:56:50 am »
For usefulness you should talk about trade+junker games where it is great. Without alt-vp trying to make engine work is usually futile as junker-trade bm will get decisive amount of vp before engine could trash down.

These junker bm should be relatively easy to simulate, I woulnt be surprised that witch-trade beats cultist bm.

There is exception with sea hag/young witch where getting 5 is hard and you want another draw card.

113
Dominion Articles / Re: Giant
« on: January 05, 2017, 03:27:26 am »
Platinum/Colony games. With a single Gold, it is tough to buy Platinum. With a Giant, easy.
That strategy is simple and false. Most colony games allow engine where you add payload at end. Then you get 6 one turn for gold and could get platinum next turn. With giant its getting 5 one turn, then playing it next turn as copper and you could get gold with that 6 and you will get platinum turn after that. One colony game from twenty where there isn't any better bm than giant one isn't very impressive.
Quote
Yes, based on simulation results (all 10000 games) Giant BM beats Courtyard BM 57% of the time,
Really? Unless I see bots it only shows that you could write near optimal giant but not courtyard bm. Main problem with these is that you don't modify bm to deal with curser, things like getting third courtyard and modyfing greening rules easily give 10% to flip result. Also CY strengh comes from topdecking in endgame where it for example topdeck gold to buy province next turn instead buying duchy and rules for that are compicated.

Quote
You compare Giant payload to Gold payload and then say it is terrible. Unsexy sure, but Gold is decent payload even if it sometimes hard to obtain in quantity. Given terminal space, a pair of Giants does the same thing for you while also helping to keep you ahead or potentially allowing you to catch up with the proper attack hits. So yes, one should be careful about buying Giant and especially early, but no, one should not unconditionally avoid it.
That is fallacy as you imply that giants are easy to obtain in quantity. That is opportunity cost and as I said there is almost no difference between getting giant and gold as early you want better 5 cost cards and by the time when your deck could substain giant you could produce 6 to afford gold anyway.

I wrote part about avoding giant as you wastly overrate it like pirate ship was. Its card that looks great at first glance but after few games you realize that in these games you would rather have saboteur.

Quote
Yes, it's slow, but the attack is good and $3 per play is nothing to sniff at.
Mandarin sneezes. Main reason for getting terminal virtual coin cards is +buy. If you get moat and two silvers in engine instead you could get 4 coins instead 3.

114
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mock-Ups 2.0
« on: January 04, 2017, 05:54:19 pm »
I read cards here and here I cards that dont look good for me in from first two pages of thread

graveyard look really weak, with 5 you could't open with it and later it looks like too slow trasher. I don't see how one could use it for draw later as you need buys to get coppers which don't have to be in your starting hand. If it consted 3 it would be weaker version of amulet.

fool - also looks overpriced, compare with tunnel and that without discard in kingdom this is weak like duchess.

arsenal - I disagree with argument that this is weak. Like cotr/guide you could call this when  your engine would stop because you don't have village/smithy. But this could cost 2-4 and it wouldn't affect its usability much.

widow - its masquarade pin on steroids, with engine possible everybody needs to go widow pin.

refund - I would drop that, its too similar to temple and temple is better.

revolution  - is kc-thronability intentional or not?

dilemma - could you playtest it as it looks too strong for 4?

royal demense - also consider dropping, too similar to fairgrounds unless there are castles in play.

fief - also not very interesting as its too weak version of groundskeeper.

college - its is stronger than wandering minstrel as you need  only one to find action and its more reliable, why its so cheap?

ghost town - looks quite weak.

wildfire - too similar to donate and I don't see situation where one could trigger reaction as getting 2 7-cost wildfires looks as mistake.

exotic traders - why it needs chancellor effect?

bullion - also too weak, for copper trashing its much weaker than steward and doesnt shine much in lategame.

demagogue - looks too strong one player could effectively pin another by getting two demas and naming village and draw, that he discards doesnt matter much, only  as he played all his cards.

debasement - doesnt make much sense, with moneyish game silver is better and getting these for engines to cost-reduce treasures, then trash debasements looks slow.

maid - almost as ugly as baker.

study - worse than gold, duration 3$ now and card next turn you need two of these to get comparable effect as gold and caravan effect doesnt save it.


115
Let's Discuss ... / Re: let's discuss guilds cards: advisor
« on: January 01, 2017, 12:31:26 pm »
Advice about judging advisor based on good/bad card ratio is bad mentality of weaker players. It doesn't matter in cases where advisor is good and when it could make difference advisor is questionable. Here is a my unpolished advisor article to fix these misconceptions:

Advisor in engine: Advisor is one of best sources of cheap draw. To evaluate engine viability you need to compare number of payload cards and number of draw cards you want in final deck. You want to be able of overdrawing deck as your goal is to reshuffle cards discarded this turn while opponent wants to prevent that by discarding best drawer from three. Discarding villages is usually worse as advisors provide nonterminal draw and one could have village in hand. Discarding other cards just helps with reshuffling discarded cards and once you reach it drawing rest of deck is easy (but as it setups next turn you don't have to do this.) Common problem is that beginners don't trust engine as often you need to commit yourself by buying more advisor few weak turns until engine starts working and not panic and switch to other strategy.

When there is other draw advisor acts as cheap laboratory if you don't want payload card for 4.

The word cheap in first sentence is quite important as buying one advisor per turn isn't impressive. You want to get lot of them with gainers or +buy and cost reduction like quarry or inheritance.

Trashing isn't necessary if there is other drawing card but makes job easier. Without junking start of turn trashers don't cause problems as you should open double amulet or get 2-3 ratcatcher as it doesn't matter if you trash copper or estate. What causes problem are count, junk dealer and forge as they are expensive to open with them and they could be repeatedly discarded or you shouldn't play advisors.


116
Dominion Articles / Re: Giant
« on: December 28, 2016, 07:25:10 am »
About your question about salvaging giant its quite good move to do as you will have one weak card less. On more serious note main problem of article is that there isn't much knowledge - it mostly states what would average player thing when he first sees boards with giant. It would need more strategic advices.

I would expect giant to be card that loses most ranks this year in quist ranking as its a bottom tier card that was ranked average previous year. Most important part about giant strategy is when to skip it which this article doesn't address. Best way to decide that is to generate lot of boards and think if giant is part of optimal strategy. To keep same random seed lets use following boards.

http://gokosalvager.com/logsearch?p1name=&p1score=any&p2name=&startdate=08%2F05%2F2012&enddate=12%2F28%2F2016&supply=giant&nonsupply=&rating=professional&pcount=2&colony=any&bot=false&shelters=any&guest=false&minturns=&maxturns=&quit=false&resign=any&submitted=true&offset=0

Provinces / Estates - Cellar, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Embargo, Estate, Feast, Giant, Gold, Hunting Party, Mining Village, Province, Sage, Scavenger, Silk Road, Silver, Storyteller, Ball

Scavenger-hunting party mirror, nobody bought giant.

Provinces / Estates - Altar, Band of Misfits, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Fairgrounds, Giant, Gold, Guide, Herbalist, Militia, Mystic, Nomad Camp, Province, Silver, Urchin, Mission

Here I disagree with players strategy. Mercenary is key here with mission/guide support. Giant isn't that good due terminal collision and millitia would be better if opponent doesn't pick any guides. Best use of giant is for fairgrounds points. So its 1/2 for giant.

Provinces / Estates - Chancellor, Copper, Curse, Distant Lands, Duchy, Estate, Forager, Giant, Gold, Grand Market, Highway, Hireling, Masterpiece, Mine, Province, Royal Seal, Silver, Alms

Obvious highway/grand market engine with forager/hireling/alms+highway support. One player opened giant instead of highway and lost as he deserved.

Provinces / Estates - Band of Misfits, Copper, Cultist, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Giant, Gold, Noble Brigand, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Province, Royal Carriage, Ruins, Scrying Pool, Silver, Transmogrify, Treasure Trove, Courtyard

Obvious cultist board transitioned into ttrove/pstone. Players didn't play this that well but one got giant instead cultist and lost again.


Provinces / Estates - Copper, Curse, Duchy, Embassy, Estate, Fairgrounds, Feast, Giant, Gold, Hermit, Library, Messenger, Province, Royal Carriage, Silver, Treasure Map, Wishing Well, Trade

Here both players did treasure map hermit. Alternative is embassy bm with trade support. Either way giant is ignorable.

Provinces / Shelters - Armory, Band of Misfits, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Fortress, Giant, Gold, Hireling, Menagerie, Mine, Oasis, Province, Ratcatcher, Silver, Training, Treasure Map, Pilgrimage

Again here both players ignored giant. While they misplayed  it doesn't change giant usefulness. Here one wants to use bom/arory to get menageries and training on them with some ratcatcher trashing. Midgame tmap is possible if you got 2-3 bom to guarantee collision.

Colonies, Estates - Butcher, City, Colony, Copper, Crossroads, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Giant, Gold, Horse Traders, Plan, Platinum, Poor House, Prince, Province, Silver, Swamp Hag, Talisman, Trader, Quest

This was misplayed, both players got giants and one got 6 without village support. Here i am not sure if giant or swamp hag are better for spiking platinum so 1/2 for giant.

Provinces / Estates - Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Farming Village, Fortress, Giant, Gold, Great Hall, Library, Outpost, Pawn, Province, Remake, Silver, Tribute, Herbalist

Here both players got giant early which is mistake. But it is rare board where you want giant as giant+pawn are only sources of virtual coin for draw-to-x engine. Attack part here is irrelevant as you want 2 remakes for trashing and remaking fortress. If one gets giant after he could draw deck with 2-3 libraries it would work. So point for giant

Provinces / Estates - Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Forge, Giant, Gold, Great Hall, Hunting Grounds, Province, Secret Chamber, Silver, Squire, Talisman, Torturer, Warehouse, Crossroads

Torturer engine - giant has no place there as torturer helps/hurts more, one player gets giant and loses despite poor play of second one (opening great hall).

Provinces / Shelters - Copper, Curse, Doctor, Duchy, Dungeon, Estate, Festival, Giant, Gold, Hireling, Hunting Grounds, Island, Menagerie, Province, Rats, Rebuild, Silver, Scouting Party

Rebuild game, nobody gets giant. I am skeptical that it would outpace rebuild here as with dungeon/scouting party it looks too fast.

Provinces / Estates - Coin of the Realm, Copper, Curse, Distant Lands, Duchy, Estate, Feast, Giant, Gold, Market, Militia, Peasant, Province, Ranger, Remodel, Silver, Trade, Transmogrify, Borrow

Here both players missed ranger-cotr engine with peasant to supercharge. Opening remodel to get convert copper into cotr looks good. Avoid giant as you don't have actions to support it (including distant lands in midgame) and it will mess ranger journey tokens as you want 5 cards from ranger instead of 5 coins from giant here.

Provinces / Estates - Caravan Guard, Copper, Council Room, Crossroads, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Fairgrounds, Giant, Gold, Grand Market, Mandarin, Province, Ranger, Silk Road, Silver, Training, Wandering Minstrel, Travelling Fair

Here both players got giant, and here its bit reasonable for faigrounds points. It isn't good source of coins here as training on minstrel is better and you want draw here and giant conflict bit with ranger again. So here its 1/2 for giant if you could buy and play 2 giants after you could draw your deck but I am not convinced yet its better than golds.

Provinces / Estates - Border Village, Bridge, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Envoy, Estate, Expand, Giant, Gold, Mandarin, Mining Village, Province, Silver, Torturer, Worker's Village, Young Witch, Wishing Well

Again bad player gets giant, good player gets torturer and ignores giant. Good player wins.

Provinces / Estates - Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Gear, Giant, Gold, Laboratory, Mint, Page, Peasant, Province, Ranger, Scavenger, Silver, Worker's Village, Herbalist

GIant is ignorable again as one gets quickly champion to moat and gold for economy. I disagree bit with players opening as page-gear looks best because you will likely mint 5 coppers with gear on turn 3-4.

Provinces / Estates - Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Fool's Gold, Giant, Gold, Herbalist, Jester, Laboratory, Moneylender, Noble Brigand, Oracle, Province, Silver, Swamp Hag, Torturer, Raid
Log Viewer Kingdom

First game where player that buys giant and opponent doesn't win. But its because opponent plays moneylender-oracle bm. Torturer or swamp-hag bm here should crush giant.

Provinces / Estates - Advisor, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Festival, Gear, Giant, Gold, Golem, Potion, Province, Scheme, Scrying Pool, Silk Road, Silver, Stash, Thief, Summon

First game where its clear to get giant, as you could find card to trash with scrying pool, as well as main source of coins and use festival+gear to keep copper+other junk from deck. 1 point for giant

Provinces / Estates - Caravan Guard, Copper, Coppersmith, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Explorer, Gear, Giant, Gold, Inheritance, Jester, Mining Village, Province, Raze, Silver, Urchin, Workshop, Plan

One game where giant doesn't help to spike inheritance as one gets that on turn 9 and buys a province. Here giant is skippable as jester is better and you will get inheritance faster with gear/silver opening+more gears to inherit villages then get workshop to gain estates.  Even gear-bm should beat anything with giant here but former engine looks better than gear bm.

Provinces / Estates - Baker, Chancellor, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Giant, Gold, Grand Market, Mandarin, Mystic, Nomad Camp, Province, Royal Carriage, Scheme, Silver, Torturer, Seaway

Another game where player who gets giant but oponent doesn't loses. Here its relatively clunky torturer engine as only actions are from rc-scheme/grand market./torturer.

Colonies, Estates - Adventurer, Colony, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Duplicate, Estate, Giant, Gold, Journeyman, Militia, Mystic, Platinum, Province, Silver, Torturer, Transmogrify, Vault, Doctor

Again one player gets 2 vaults + torturer instead of messing with giant and wins.

Provinces / Estates - Adventurer, Armory, Bandit Camp, Copper, Curse, Duchy, Estate, Giant, Gold, Great Hall, Hunting Grounds, Merchant Guild, Province, Scout, Silver, Wine Merchant, Doctor

Here hunting grounds bm beats giant player. There is a mechant guild engine possible if you overpay doctor and giant has no place there.

So based on these games one could say that giant is rarely useful and if one ignores it completely would help you unless you are at least level 20 player.

Now to article itself and why its mostly first impressions that doesn't apply.

Part about using giant for early spiking 7-8 is first impression but it is wrong as it is rarely best move. It only works with 5/2 opening where giant could spike that reasonably early. Buying giant on turn 3-4 is most of times mistake as its only a copper on next shuffle and you spike it on shuffle after that. You could spike that with basically any reasonable draw cards in same time and you will have better deck than one giant+possibly weaker card from giant play.

As giant winning vs weak bm how weak one? Does it beat something more impressive than bureaucrat?

As giant in engines you made mistake in first sentence that giant is a decent payload. It isn't decent its terrible payload. You could always use gold as payload. Attack is quite weak because of that as you should pick giants and start playing them quite late where it won't matter as opponent could trash it with his engine. Trashing without inspect is weaker as it often just trashes silver. Argument that giant could beat opponent with bm is weak as in most boards its clear that one should do engine or there isn't engine possible and you should do bm. In engine mrrors that are most games giant would just lose you tempo.

117
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: Titandrake records a few games
« on: December 22, 2016, 06:07:57 pm »
These games look suspect as you are matched to quite poor players. Here are my comments.

game 1: tmorgify-rats is thing. Trick is to get more rats and start convert 2 rats into tmorgrifies as cantrip before changing them to payload. Start with tmorgify to turn shelter into hamlet. Also you could get third witch and turn it to gold on collision. You could do that one turn to get province. Otherwise I don't like villages here much as its bmish game.

In second I would get second library sooner and get labs instead of markets.

In third you should get gold on turn 3 as you could easily get embassy with it and not help opponent much. Second emb was correct, depending on when you hit 5 you may even want third. It is about maximizing chances of starting with embassy, 5 cards make collision less problematic than other terminal draw.  Bishop is definite no here as game demonstrated. Finally you had terrible luck in that game, two embassies which collided on every shuffle.

Fourth, I don't like squires here especially early but picking them later for buy or when mistrels are out is good. Minstrel gives you enough actions and they will find squires instead of torturers. Mystic isn't that good as payload due to no trashing minstrel followed by mystic is bit unlikely. Similar merchant guld as you couldn't draw deck. As payload bank is much better to generate big income.

Fifth was obviously bm as only way to increase handsize is golem hitting oracle+university but its too weak.

Last game is definite fishing village/jack opening. You still want to build fv-margrave engine but 3 estates turned into silvers give you better economy than baron as well as possibility of using jack to draw after oponents margrawe.

118
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: New Alchemy (beta)
« on: December 22, 2016, 01:24:51 pm »
Dual cost as here are bad idea, now they make potion skippable. Just buy silver and you could buy all cards with potion cost, except of few where cost difference is 3 or more but with 3 alternative potion serves as a gimped quarry. So either remove that or make potion worth 3 or more coins.

As cards:

Warlock. - weaker than scout. Buying potion instead is almost always better as this is potion and terminal copper and you don't want terminal coppers in your deck. Attack is weaker than bureaucrat so it doesn't matter.

Plenipotentiary - hunting grounds variant with potion tennis, interesting.

Diviner - didn't play with it maybe too strong as village+peddler depending how much will blind haven effect harm you.

Demystify - Depends if you have other potion card in kingdom or not. If not it is just a more expensive remodel. If you have look too strong, trash copper gain 2p card or trash 4 cost gain possession.

Element collection - without other potion cost card it is much stronger than duke slog as potions cost 4 and this has better vp potential. With another potion cost card it becomes almost worthless, 8 potions and 8 collection give you 32 vp which is only 2 vp per card.

Brewery - just a village that could turn a potion into village. As you want to buy potion cost card that doesn't happen often unless you could draw your deck but then you probably don't need extra action. Should cost 3 as its basically just a vanilla village.

Summoner - I would need to play like 100 games with it usability depends on board in nontrivial way. With no buys playing terminal to get extra card in hand it looks bad, similar for bm/slogs where terminal collision prevents using it often and drawing extra silver on next turn isn't that good.  With good trashing it is skippable as you will have reliable engine and spending that 5 on power card is better. So I am not sure how often and how much it could be useful.

course - almost looks like fixed transmute. What about alternative to make tmute event where it would do victory->gold, treasure->action 2 at most two more expensive and action->duchy.

reflection - looks weak, needs unneeded potion and buy. Then it becomes scheme+caravan for one turn.

conjure - basically turns potion into ironworks at end of turn that could get multiple vp cards. Looks quite strong.

bronze worker - I am not sure if it is too strong or not. by buying only one copper then potions you could easily draw half of your deck each turn. You would need 4 silver(or copper+gold) to get province/turn.

Tactic - too strong. Get a potion and you could ignore greening as you will rack it turn after turn. probably 4 silver and 2-3 potions would quickly make golden deck where you play 4silver+potion for province and racking everything else.

Melody - weaker version of expedition, otherwise sorta ok.

display - not sure about that.

fortify - bad idea. Makes every attack skippable and negating attacks which leads to less interesting games.

distribute - looks weak, definitely worse than quarry unless its only source of buys.

mirror - turn potion into a chapel that could only trash coppers and ruins if you could play them. look okish.

grand design - useless. It cost too much for moneyish decks. For engines it wouldn't draw anything.





119
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Christmas board
« on: December 22, 2016, 09:04:28 am »
Also ambassador to give lot of presents.

120
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Design the board with the largest P1 advantage
« on: December 10, 2016, 06:06:56 am »
One of possible fixes of my strategy would be add alms, trav.fair and borrow so you could on turn 1 get buy from baker+borrow using tfair. With first buy alms a feodum, with second donate. Opponent would need to mirror it or be turn behind. I hope that silver would split unevenly here.

121
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What if all piles scaled with players?
« on: December 09, 2016, 06:29:10 am »
This given me related idea, scaling vp cards. How would game changed if provinces would be replaced by 8 cost cards earning 3-10(3p 14) vp in increasing/decreasing order. Obviously decreasing order would increase 1p advantage and caused earlier greening but what about opposite and how would strategies change?

122
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: "Features" threads
« on: December 08, 2016, 03:55:52 pm »
As I long time ago though about suggestions for MF how to improve UI. What about following one to make playing it fast and mistake free?

Main tool: Buttons above and below cards. If card has optional trash clause then you trash cards by clicking on button trash above the card. If you click on card itself it means that you are done with previous card and play selected card. That would avoid most trashing by accident. Similar with discard, it would speed up hamlet, you click on button above card to get action, below card to get buy by discarding these and likely on a next hamlet otherwise.

Second feature would be always button. Mainly scrying pools and spy,oracle... engine games would be faster if player could click on additional button, to keep card on top of other player's deck for all future plays until end of turn. For reactions one could select to always defend versus that card until end of turn or check a checkbox to always reveal moat until end of game.

Third in any order interface. Most times you don't care how are some cards ordered. With cartographer it would show cards with button above to discard, then you would drag cards to change order and then hit button done to put them back. So in common case simply hitting done would return them in same order as before. Avoiding cases when it doesn't matter as all cards are same would be nice.


123
Game Reports / Re: Fun comeback
« on: December 08, 2016, 01:27:46 pm »
No, here you probably don't want bishop at all, unless you need to make comeback with feodum and bishopping lot of silver to reduce first player lead. Also no throne rooms.
Bishop here only helps opponent. If he didn't waste time with buying bishop and 4 native villages and bought silver instead then cultist-bm should pile provinces by turn 20, not have 3 provinces at turn 23 despite having only 2 junk and trashed junk from your bishop.

124
Dominion Articles / Re: The Peasant-Teacher Line
« on: December 08, 2016, 10:33:35 am »
This article needs more details.

Very important skill in peasant games is balancing terminal ratio. You need deck tracking to see when you should add another peasant as soldier becomes fugitive in that shuffle decreasing terminal collision chance.

Also entire chain requires bit more detail as teacher line tends to be faster than page one unless you need to play terminals early. fugitive cycles and disciple probably cycles too if you duplicate draw/sifter. But thunter and hero junk you with treasures slowing you down. As new players underestimate disciples these should be mentioned too, with analogs like that disciple quickly becomes better than kings court as you play card twice by disciple, then third time when you draw a copy which is normal practice in engines.

Second topic is that with junking and no/weak trashing peasant tends to be better than champion. Calling teacher becomes less important factor as with long shuffles it would likely happen in single one. Both enable terminal draw engine in similar way as +action to draw is only needed. But you could improve engine by placing +card to cantrip/village with teacher but no champion.

After lot of junky games I found that page TD engines lose to junker-bm quite often. With only one buy you need to get lot of draw cards that you don't want to play not to skip hero and tempo loss from that will lose you game. So adding nonterminals is better to keep tempo.

125
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Design the board with the largest P1 advantage
« on: December 08, 2016, 09:17:24 am »
Even better you could delve+donate on turn 2 which with baker token leads to 4 silver deck for both 5/2 and 3/4. Not sure if p2 3 delve+donate on turn 1 helps.

Redid the sim with T2 donate, leads to 98.07% P1 win, 1.93% P2 win, 0% ties, and ever so slightly beats out T3 Donate in both start orders.

I think the next best thing would have to be 100% at this point.

EDIT: With the P2 3 delve+donate, it's back down to 96.92% P1 win, 2.86% P2 win, 0.22% ties.

Slight nuance I just noticed though; the sim doesn't keep any Copper from Donate, and goes down to 4 Silver every time.

If you will Donate on turn 2, then except on a 2-5 start shouldn't you buy Feodum on turn 1? You keep a coin token on 5-2 while still having 4 Silvers after turn 2 and on a 3-4 or 4-3 start you end up with 5 Silvers after turn 2.

Thats a problem. It gives counter to second player. If he buys it when first player doesn't then at end p1 must choose between winning silver split but losing feodum one 4-3 or winning feodum split and losing silver one which gives smaller advantage. Then there could be problem that silver will split evenly instead p1 winning split if they get more silver in turn 1/2, one must check that or invoke rule that you could play with any number of silver. Second possibility to fix this would be 3 player game, but I didn't analyze that yet.

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