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Messages - c4master

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26
Help! / Re: Some league matches
« on: January 23, 2015, 11:57:48 am »
Quote from: MiCQsenoch
Game 1:
2nd Tunnel is borderline for me, I might prefer Silver (but it's close). I definitely prefer Silver over the 3rd Tunnel. I think on turn 11 I wouldn't trigger the reshuffle. But I mean Embassy is going to lose if your two Embassies collide at the bottom of your shuffle twice, there's no way around it.

Yeah. Usually you do not want many Tunnels, just two of them are enough.

27
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Individual player analysis tool
« on: January 23, 2015, 11:51:37 am »
When I type my username (c4master) I get this:

"There was an error! Are you sure you have the right username?"

I already did empty my browser cache...

28
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Individual player analysis tool
« on: January 23, 2015, 10:12:41 am »
Update:
I created an actual public interface.
http://www.2pih.com/cardAnalyzer.php

Right now it will only pull a max of 1000 games. I am checking with the Goko Salvager folks to see if they are okay with me increasing that.

It still doesn't work for me.  :-[

29
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Individual player analysis tool
« on: January 22, 2015, 03:14:45 pm »
I tried this on my own username and it doesn't seem to work.

Javascript is activated and I'm using Firefox, by the way.

30
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Always Losing.
« on: January 17, 2015, 04:00:53 am »
If you wanted to go for a bridge megaturn (I'm not sure whether that's possible on this board), you should avoid silver and I personally wouldn't have opened Ironworks, I guess.

31
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: SheCantSayNo's Teaching & Streaming
« on: January 12, 2015, 11:07:18 am »
4th Lesson with Jerney

I really enjoy your lessons even though I can very often guess what you're about to say. It's a very good exercise to predict your advise. :D

However, I disagree with you on the first game of lessen 4, that's Double Tactician vs. Alchemist Stack.

Since there is no other draw on the board, double Tac is limited to generate at most 8 Coin Tokens per turn (if you don't buy any green cards and get 8 Candlestick Makers. Alchemist, on the other side can easily generate 12-14 Coins per turn. I think, you misplayed that.
I believe, a start with Candlestick maker / Moneylender would be better because you need to erase the Coppers. Next would be Potion and then get Alchemists, if possible, and maybe Ironmongers and up to 4 Golds ( with the extra buys). You might want a second Candlestick Maker, but probably not a third one. I don't think, there is place for a Pawn before your first Ironmonger and even afterwards it's still questionable since you want Islands to erase your Estates. Your goal should be to get to a deck like this:
Province - Island - 2 CandleStick Makers - Moneylender - 4 Golds - 6 Alchemistes - any number of Ironmongers

Then you can easily buy Province + Island each turn, play it and keep clean. You can then score at least 10 points per turn. I'm not good enough to actually estimate whether that is quick enough to win against double Tactician (because it takes probably some more turns to set up), but the payload is just way higher and it can easily be increased to double Province in the end, since you're saving tokens due to Ironmongers generating a few Coins maybe.

32
Can someone estimate the likelyhood of a card getting +/-0.100 correlation just by chance? Or do we need further assumptions? We have more than 200 cards and I'm wondering whether some outliers could be explained by this.

I'm very surprised to see Moneylender on this list. Seriously, when do you ignore it? When there's better trashing, I guess. Or, when you're going for BM or a slog, maybe. I thought, it would be pretty easy to see when Moneylender is good and when it's not.

33
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Openings that are better for P1 or P2
« on: January 07, 2015, 06:21:47 am »
I'm surprised bishop/silver doesn't show up for P2, and surprised militia/silver doesn't show up for P1. My nonsense theory for hermit-silver: these game tend towards fast three piles, which has more ties than average, which favors P2.

I'm really surprised that there are mirror openings where P1 has a 70% winrate... that means there are kingdoms where P1 is heavily favored.
I think you are wrong with you last implication.

What it says, is, that there are card combinations, that are bad to mirror as P2. It does not say, whether there can be other cards to minimalize this effect (because now we're looking at mirrors). For example, if your P1 opponent opens Swindler/Silver you could try something else like Remake/Silver, so that the advantage of P1 goes down by a few percentages. Maybe, if my opponent opens with an attack card, I am more likely to invest into defense like a moat or something, and maybe this can be better than mirroring what P1 does.

Btw. I am surprised not to see any Witch-openings in the list of P1 advantages.
The idea that you should do something different as player 2 because you're player 2 is almost always just wrong. There's usually a best thing to do, and you should just do that. And when this isn't the case, you're usually adapting because some strategy is a little better against what they did, and it was close to start. You're really almost never never switching just because you're p2.
Yes. The thing to keep in mind is that there are common events that can take place on T1-T4 that are comparable in effect to P1 advantage. Examples: bad opening split, bad money distribution on T3/T4, or a key opening buy missing a shuffle. With Tournament/Ambassador, some additional specific unluck examples that can occur are Ambassador hitting 4 coppers without a good $2 on the board, or various mishaps in the process of gaining a Province and connecting it with Tournament. While any of these individually may be of greater or smaller impact than P1 advantage, the point is that P1 advantage can easily be overturned by events within the game.

I don't think that's true.

1 - bad opening split:
Talking about a board with Ambassador/Tournament and a situation where you could mirror P1 means, that you both have a 3/4 opening. There is no luck involved.

2 - bad money distribution on T3/T4:
I claim, that's no problem. Best thing for your Ambassador turn would be Tournament + Ambassador + 2 Estates on T3. Returning 2 Estates would still mean only $3. Without the Tournament, if you give back 2 cards with Ambassador, you cannot have more than $2.
The worst thing would be Amb + 4 Coppers. If you cannot buy something useful at that price point, you're "thinning" more than the other player who bought maybe a 3-cost.
Best turn with Tournament would be Tournament  + 5 Coppers giving you $6 (or maybe $5 is just as well depending on the board).
It's tough to say, but I think, only the last thing really matters...unlesss...your opening buys miss the shuffle.

3- key opening buy miss the shuffle:
Given that we mirror each other, the worst thing to happen would be to miss the shuffle for both of your cards. Chances are 2/12 * 1/11 = 2/132 = 1,5%. With a cantrip like Tournament, the second worst would be for Ambassador to be the last card and thus miss the shuffle. Chances are 1/12 = 8,3%. So basically, my opponent gets bad luck on ~10% of all those games. Unfortunately, my own luck will be bad also on 10% of all games, thus remaining a ~9% chance for my opponent to stumble and me not to.
So, yes, chances are comparable, but still my disadvantage of ~10% is bigger than my chances to cover up due to luck (9%).

34
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Openings that are better for P1 or P2
« on: January 06, 2015, 09:54:35 am »
I'm surprised bishop/silver doesn't show up for P2, and surprised militia/silver doesn't show up for P1. My nonsense theory for hermit-silver: these game tend towards fast three piles, which has more ties than average, which favors P2.

I'm really surprised that there are mirror openings where P1 has a 70% winrate... that means there are kingdoms where P1 is heavily favored.
I think you are wrong with you last implication.

What it says, is, that there are card combinations, that are bad to mirror as P2. It does not say, whether there can be other cards to minimalize this effect (because now we're looking at mirrors). For example, if your P1 opponent opens Swindler/Silver you could try something else like Remake/Silver, so that the advantage of P1 goes down by a few percentages. Maybe, if my opponent opens with an attack card, I am more likely to invest into defense like a moat or something, and maybe this can be better than mirroring what P1 does.

Btw. I am surprised not to see any Witch-openings in the list of P1 advantages.
The idea that you should do something different as player 2 because you're player 2 is almost always just wrong. There's usually a best thing to do, and you should just do that. And when this isn't the case, you're usually adapting because some strategy is a little better against what they did, and it was close to start. You're really almost never never switching just because you're p2.

I don't say, you should always chose a different opening. But when you're already behind because of first player advantage you should try to find something that helps you more than just mirroring. I'm referring to Stef's article about taking more risks as P2.

Obviously, not every board with Ambassadoe und Tournament offers some other viable opening (except maybe double Ambassador). But you should not automatically mirror P1 because now it's pretty known that your chances will go down by more than 10% because of the opening.

35
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Data Mining: Card Rankings
« on: January 06, 2015, 06:48:14 am »
^
Procession is really situational, and not really a village, so it doesn't really compare to real villages.

Regarding Village vs Shanty Town: Imagine a board in which you go for Village. Now suppose Shanty Town is there instead. Most of the time, you go for the same strategy, but with Shanty Town instead. However, there are boards in which Shanty Town is useful and Village is not.

And Shanty Town is a better opener than Village. So if both are available, you might still get both, even though later on Village becomes stronger.

36
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Openings that are better for P1 or P2
« on: January 06, 2015, 06:26:18 am »
So you're saying that as P2, when your opponent opens tournament/ambassador, you won't mirror? Good luck...

There might be openings that do better against tournament/ambassador.

Maybe it's worth to take the risk of collision with double ambassador? Maybe you could try to overcome the copper flood with Apothetecary. Maybe there's some other attack like Swindler or Knights to kill the ambassador...

If your chances are already down 30-70, you could just as well try and go for something weird, meaning: something with high variance.

37
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Openings that are better for P1 or P2
« on: January 05, 2015, 06:16:03 am »
I'm surprised bishop/silver doesn't show up for P2, and surprised militia/silver doesn't show up for P1. My nonsense theory for hermit-silver: these game tend towards fast three piles, which has more ties than average, which favors P2.

I'm really surprised that there are mirror openings where P1 has a 70% winrate... that means there are kingdoms where P1 is heavily favored.
I think you are wrong with you last implication.

What it says, is, that there are card combinations, that are bad to mirror as P2. It does not say, whether there can be other cards to minimalize this effect (because now we're looking at mirrors). For example, if your P1 opponent opens Swindler/Silver you could try something else like Remake/Silver, so that the advantage of P1 goes down by a few percentages. Maybe, if my opponent opens with an attack card, I am more likely to invest into defense like a moat or something, and maybe this can be better than mirroring what P1 does.

Btw. I am surprised not to see any Witch-openings in the list of P1 advantages.

38
Dominion Articles / Re: BM enabler
« on: January 04, 2015, 04:47:10 am »
I'm surprised that noone checked Thief, when Noble Brigand does so surprisingly well in straight BM+X.

Also, I'm really missing all those Witch-BM-variants because junking can be so nasty.

39
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Vault to early Grand Market???
« on: November 30, 2014, 09:14:36 am »
I feel like Loan as the only trasher is always the right decision on a GM board, Vault or no Vault.

I don't quite understand this. Does it mean:
If Loan is the only trasher and there is Grand market on the board, it's always the right decision to go for the Loan (straight away)?

I just have some syntactical problems. :D

40
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: AdamH's channels
« on: November 30, 2014, 09:09:30 am »
Hey, on your league match with msprs (is that the correct spelling?) on game 5, one of you had the chance to buy a Bishop in the Black Market. Bishop might not be the best card here, but you could build something that uses Soothsayer to deal curses and gain golds mid-turn, draw that gold and Bishop it for 4 points. I guess, doing this about 3-4 times would have been game here, since you can then delay greening until the very end.

I would post this directly below you YT-Video, but I do not have an account (nor do I desire one).

So this is, why it occurs here.

41
Dominion Articles / Further readings on Sea Hag
« on: November 30, 2014, 04:27:22 am »
For anyone speaking German, I would recommend this book as further reading on Sea Hag.

;)

42
Dominion Articles / Re: Estimating Basic Engines
« on: November 17, 2014, 11:34:31 am »
On the other hand, gainer + Gardens/Silk Roads always cries for a rush. Is there another possibility to score more than 6 points without +buy? Maybe Altar?  :-\
Rushes are generally overrated, Workshop rushes are terrible (need a very weak board to be good). Armory is pretty bad also. Ironworks is the only card that makes me consider a rush strong. The rest can be outraced by almost anything.

There are almost a million cards which can gain Duchies or extra Provinces: Remodel, Expand, Butcher, Remake, Upgrade, Governor, Develop, Stonemason, Horn of Plenty, Forge, Graverobber, Altar, Count, Hunting Grounds, Tournament, Highway (honorable mention, needs a gainer). It's actually hard to find a board where Duchies aren't a viable source of "alt-VP" for an engine player.

:D

Sometimes, it's hard to believe one could forget about all the Tfb-Cards. Shame on me for that. :(

Anyways, thank you. I'm going to try out some of these combinations to get an idea of how well they perform.

-----

I'm also going to check some rushes. I still believe that any Village+Gainer+$4-VP might outperform other strategies.

43
Dominion Articles / Re: Estimating Basic Engines
« on: November 16, 2014, 11:01:00 am »
Turns to X Provinces is not a good metric for comparing strategies.  It leaves out direct interaction between players, but more importantly it leaves out the idea of control.  One of the main strengths of a powerful engine is the ability to end the game when it is advantageous for you to do so.  (End the game when you have the most points, don't aim to have the most points when the game ends.)  If an engine player does not want to buy Provinces then they should be able to do something else useful that will enable an even more explosive finish later on.  This is one reason why lack of +Buy is one of the most painful constraints on engine-building.

I can't see how this contradicts my statement, if you meant to correct me.

The problem is, that you will basically never have a lead when building your engine. Without +buy and without an attack, you probably just cannot close the gap before the game ends, even if there is gaining like Workshop or Armory.

Maybe, I'm wrong. If so, I would like to see such a kingdom. :)

edit: I've just reread Adams posting and I've found this quite useful:
Quote from: AdamH
s there no +Buy? Well look for gainers, I think about the most points I can score in a turn and whether or not that will be enough to catch up.

So, Workshop or Armory might help me, if there is Alt VP like Gardens or Silk Roads, which can be "gained".

On the other hand, gainer + Gardens/Silk Roads always cries for a rush. Is there another possibility to score more than 6 points without +buy? Maybe Altar?  :-\

44
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Post Your Fun Kingdoms to Play
« on: November 16, 2014, 10:53:20 am »
I know there's basically no trashing, but I don't care: Quarry+Grand Market always makes me happy.

I tried Trade Route + Quarry + Grand Market, but I didn't win.

Yet, the player who ended the game on a 3-pile also didn't win. So that was kind of awkward...

I wonder, if you could have built something around Sage + Counting House or if Contraband was actually good here.

45
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Post Your Fun Kingdoms to Play
« on: November 15, 2014, 05:24:17 am »
This kingdom wasn't particularly fun to play, but very interesting. I have to say, it has been a 4-player game with Colonys:

Code: [Select]
Poor House, Squire, Trade Route, Sage, Armory, Quarry, Contraband, Counting House, Mystic, Grand Market

46
Dominion Articles / Re: Estimating Basic Engines
« on: November 15, 2014, 05:12:21 am »
Masterpiece is the biggest money you can buy.

http://dominionstrategy.com/2013/01/23/the-five-fundamental-deck-types-the-engine/ may have some engine building answers.

Thx. I've already gone through this a few months ago and I found it pretty well-written. :-)

Anyways, Torturer is an attack card that also draws, so yeah. Pretty much every attack will be enough to keep me away from BM.

Explorer/DoubleJack/Navigator etc. are pretty good at buying one Province per turn and doing this regularly. I've checked that with the simulator and found out, that DoubleJack gets all 8 Provinces in ~18 turns and it easily gets 4 Provinces in 13 turns if it's not attacked. I guess, the similar numbers would be there for Explorer, Navigator, Masterpiece etc.

It's different, of course, if there is non-cheap alt VP (Colony, Fairgrounds, maybe Duke) or a strategy that doesn't buy green cards anyways (golden deck, Monument, Goons).

47
Dominion Articles / Re: Estimating Basic Engines
« on: November 12, 2014, 12:17:07 pm »
Thanks for these kind replies. :-)

I've seen like a hundred of your videos, Adam, and I love them. I just wondered what would be the minimum number of different cards needed to create something like an engine. Obviously Steward + Village would do it, but these two alone are too slow since you cannot catch up and you need to build up first. Adding any +buy will - on the other hand - very likely will resolve into something good.

But what if there are only gainers and no cost reducers? I would say, that this is not good enough to compete with the best non-engine strategy.

Although you have told us, we can use typical non-engine cards like Jack in an engine. You can only win those games, if your name is Adam, though.

So I feel like going for the engine without attack and without +buy is just never worth it (*). And I want to be wronged.

(*) Exception: Horn of Plenty

48
Dominion Articles / Estimating Basic Engines
« on: November 08, 2014, 12:05:57 pm »
I found myself wondering how effective a very basic engine could be, i.e. one that uses only three different cards. Since engines usually require 4 things, namely trashing, villages, draw and payload, there need to be cards that can do several of these things. Cards such as Steward.

On a very basic version it would only desire any village to be an engine on it's own. Yet, this would be a very bad engine since it needs to gain at leats 10 cards before greening and it can't green very well. It also needs 5 turns of trashing your 10 starting cards, so you could maybe hope to be ready around turn 11 or 12 to pick up one Province per turn. Too late for many other strategies. You could, of course, add attack cards to slow down your opponent. However, I wondered if some simple gaining like workshop would be enough to catch up.

It's pretty obvious that every card potentially strengthens this engine, but I wonder wether the bsic version consisting only of Steward, Village and Workshop would be good enough to compete against Big Money strategies. Maybe you need to exchange village and replace it by farming village (you don't want to draw green cards once you start greening).

Is there any estimation of what can be worth it or how much it takes to be worth going for the engine - especially without +buy?

49
Dominion Articles / Re: When cycling is not good
« on: August 17, 2014, 04:50:21 am »
Actually only Harvest and maybe Minion are really neutral. I forgot this, Harvest is neutral (meaning: fully random) cycling in Dominion.

Tribute, Jester, Swindler, Rogue, Knights, Sea Hag.  Also most draw cards.

...which are all cards, that my opponent plays on me and thus cannot be considered a decision I am making.

Draw cards also cycle, ok, but their main purpose is really the drawing part to increase the amount of cards in your actual hand.

50
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: SheCantSayNo's Teaching & Streaming
« on: July 24, 2014, 11:16:15 am »
I think SCSN is correct here.

Maybe it's better to have 5 Menageries drawing on average 2 cards than 6 Menageries drawing on average 1.5 cards? Mathematically this is obvious, but I pulled the numbers out of thin air, so I don't know for sure.

It's not so much about your own deck, but rather about denying your opponent his key cards. You can just thin down th Coppers on your upcoming turn(s), but you cannot deny him the Menagerie any more.

For your own deck (~20 cards): If you have 6 Menageries, but you need only 4 activated to draw your deck, you're likely to succeed. If you start with three Menageries in your hand, you can affort to play one of them as a cantrip, if you have to. Starting with exactly two Menageries in your hand is actually very strong. But if you only have 4 in your whole deck and need all 4 to draw your deck, you're likely to not start with any and thus have a stall turn.

So I think having 6 Menageries is not a bad thing and denying one is very strong.

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