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Messages - amalloy

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76
Other Games / Re: Prismata
« on: December 04, 2014, 04:55:45 pm »
I just played a game (vs AI) where we both breached each other at the same time, which creates a base-race situation, much like what happens in Starcraft when both players' economies drop to zero.

And hey, replays if you have access!  kOaQi-ovGa5

Anyone can watch a replay, without an alpha key. Here's yours: http://play.prismata.net/?r=kOaQi-ovGa5 - you can get this from the Replay tab: it's the "Get Link" button.

77
Other Games / Re: Prismata
« on: December 04, 2014, 03:30:20 pm »
Also I'm worried about the comeback mechanics in this game, or rather, the lack thereof.  It feels like a game where you build up, and one person breaches and wins, and then has a few turns of finishing up the game while the other person sobs.  I don't know how you're supposed to come back from a setback.

There's also no apparent adjustment for p1 advantage.

The lack of comeback in breach-vulnerable games is a big time savings: instead of "sobbing", you just resign because you've clearly lost. I wish this happened more in Dominion games, but instead games that are clearly over keep going on for another twenty minutes because "well if my opponent stalls three turns in a row and I get perfect draws...". You can also play a breach-ambivalent strategy, by getting a lot of resilient green units. See http://play.prismata.net/?r=VltKD-YhIxM, for example, where Temron threatens big breach potential with Frost Brooders: I elect to open the doors and just let him into my Drone line, basing my military might on sturdy Gauss Cannons so I can keep applying pressure while being breached.

P1 and P2 are well balanced, in an interesting way, because it's very symmetric. P2 starts with one extra Drone, so it's 6/7. If P1 doesn't like his position, he can opt to "become player 2" by buying two Drones (as happens almost every game) and starting 8/7 instead of 6/7. Usually at this point P2 buys two Drones and it's 8/9...at some point, someone decides it's more important to be aggressive than to build, which kinda makes them the effective player 1.

78
Help! / Re: Does Fools Gold + Tactician just suck?
« on: December 04, 2014, 02:38:32 pm »
I don't think FG+Tactician is much good by itself, but I recall a game I played against AI, in which he used FG+Tactician to power up his Gardens with a couple of giant Masterpieces:

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140604/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1401867146489.txt#1-8

79
Other Games / Re: Prismata
« on: December 04, 2014, 02:21:56 pm »
I've played the complete demo. Seems interesting but mmm I'm not as hyped as Kirian is (which is not saying much). It's kinda lacking the combo factor for me.

It wasn't entirely clear in the demo, how many "kingdom" cards are there? I get the first page is the common pool for all games, but do you "only" play with 5 extra cards in the full game? How many different cards are there?

Another question: the Kickstarter reward levels are super confusing. What exactly do you get for 1CAD (one Canadian Dollar)?

In custom matches, you can play with Base+0 up to Base+11, your choice. In competitive play, you can choose Base+5 or Base+8. The total pool of kingdom cards is like 70 right now, and more are being designed: they've added three in the two weeks I've been playing.

For 1CAD I think you basically get a "thanks, mate". Supporter tier is the first tier where you get an alpha key.

80
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why is Goko so bad ?
« on: December 03, 2014, 05:33:49 pm »
For what it's worth, they got Prince up within a week or so of it being released, and implemented it correctly.

I think it was like a month, not a week. But I agree it was a perfectly reasonable timeframe. And of course an hour after Prince was revealed, there were doubters on f.ds asking what on earth is taking so long, surely any competent team could implement Prince in an hour.

81
Other Games / Prismata
« on: December 03, 2014, 02:18:54 am »
Prismata is a really interesting game that appeared on the horizon recently, and just a couple weeks ago alpha access became available to the general public via a Kickstarter reward tier. I picked it up and have been having a great time. I don't imagine every Dominion player will love Prismata, but a lot of them seem to, and I was surprised to see nobody discussing it here.

I recommend watching the Kickstarter rules-intro video, which does a good job of explaining the mechanics, but I'll also make my own effort at summarizing the game. They used to call it MCDS, for Magic-Chess-Dominion-Starcraft, and you can really see the influence of all four of those games clearly.

  • Like MtG, you're building up a board of attackers and defenders that you use to damage your opponent's board.
  • But instead of constructed decks, the game starts Dominion-style, with similar starting boards and a "base set" of 11 standard units purchasable every game (analogous to Coppers, Silvers, and so on), and an additional random set of "kingdom cards" either player can buy this game.
  • And there are no decks, indeed no randomness or hidden information at all: like chess, every turn can be planned ahead of time, if you can think fast enough (hint: you can't). I get the feeling that this is a turn-off for Dominion fans, which I totally get: removing the randomness is a definite trade-off that some people might not like. I wasn't sure at first, and of course I still appreciate randomness in card games, but it's also nice to have Prismata available as a choice where I am really in charge of my own destiny.
  • Last, it's like Starcraft in that you're balancing economy, technology, attacking, and defending; and because you have to make tactical decisions about what units to trade for what, the timings to attack at, and stuff like that.

I'd say if you like at least two of those games, Prismata is worth at least checking out; there's a free single-player-only demo you can try if any of this sounds interesting but you don't want to immediately buy it. If any of you do decide to try it, I'd be happy to play some games with you: I'm Mountebank in game.

82
Help! / Re: Pillage/Chapel/Tournament
« on: November 20, 2014, 06:21:09 pm »
I don't understand your T6 at all. You had Necropolis, Spoils, Chapel, Copper, Copper; and you...passed the turn??? You should be using that Spoils, and trashing something. If you felt you really needed that Necropolis still, you could trash even just one Copper and buy a Tournament, or trash them both for a Silver; but I would trash everything and buy a Silver with the Spoils.

And on turn 7 you made the same mistake, holding Necropolis, Spoils, Chapel, Silver, Copper: you trashed nothing, and played the Silver+Copper to buy a Silver! At the very absolute minimum you should spend the Spoils as well to get a Gold instead.

You should be rushing to get the Spoils out of your deck and convert it to something long-lasting; it looks as if you were hoarding it in the hopes of getting a fast Province, but for every turn you draw it and don't spend it, it might as well be a Curse. The early boost that Pillage gives your economy is wasted if you won't use it!

83
Rules Questions / Re: Bunch of Duration Questions
« on: November 20, 2014, 06:12:43 pm »
(you can tell what expansion I'm working on in my program)
1. All Durations other than Haven, Tactician, and Outpost under any circumstances stay out, right?

Unless someone plays a scheme and chooses to put it on top of their deck

Scheme does not affect how long a Duration card remains in play.

Oh, right, Scheme can't choose first-turn durations.  I forgot about that.

Oh I didn't know that. Ineteresting

Technically you can choose a first-turn Duration, but it's a bad idea because nothing happens if you do.

Edge Case Challenge: Find a reason why you would do this.

That's easy. You don't want to scheme any card, because anything else would be worse than a new 5 cards. You don't want the Scheme again because your opponent is heavy on Militia, so a contrip hurts with knowing what to discard.

But Scheme is a "may", not a "must". You can always choose to scheme nothing. I can't imagine any scenario where scheming a first-turn duration is different from scheming nothing at all,

84
Rules Questions / Re: Bunch of Duration Questions
« on: November 19, 2014, 01:45:21 pm »
(you can tell what expansion I'm working on in my program)
1. All Durations other than Haven, Tactician, and Outpost under any circumstances stay out, right?

Unless someone plays a scheme and chooses to put it on top of their deck

You can't do that. Scheme moves cards to the top of your deck only if they are being discarded from play: if you play a Duration card on the same turn as a Scheme, you can attempt to Scheme it back on top of your deck but you will fail, because it never gets discarded.

85
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Gardens gets thrashed
« on: November 18, 2014, 05:16:51 pm »
you could if there were any interesting strategies in the base game.
Festival/Library is interesting.
i don't believe in festival/library.

Festival/Library/Cellar is pretty sweet.

86
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: Should I start streaming?
« on: November 14, 2014, 10:48:35 pm »
Sooooo yeah, I guess I'll take a stab at streaming. I'll download the stuff tomorrow. Is there a way to take a look at the chat while only streaming the window with Goko on it or do I have to break out my second screen?

It will depend on what streaming software you use, but I think basically every package that exists will have this option. OBS is what a lot of us use, and it certainly supports this. You can broadcast your whole screen, but it's easy enough to stream just a single window, or a rectangular portion of a single window. Then in another window you can be viewing your Twitch dashboard, which will have all the user chat and optionally also include the video you're streaming.

87
Rules Questions / Re: Bunch of Duration Questions
« on: November 13, 2014, 08:49:36 pm »
Another thing to consider: Chained TR/KC + Durations.

From what I understand, if you TR a TR and play one duration and one non-duration, then one TR stays out and one gets collected at end of turn. But if you TR a TR and play two different durations, then both TRs stay out. If you KC a KC (or TR), and two or more KCs play durations, then both KCs stay out. Do not neglect to consider the case of triple-(or-greater)-TR, and also do not neglect that duration leaf nodes may occur at different tree depths.

This is nonsense. In both of your first two examples, only one TR stays out. The rule is that KCs and TRs only stay out if they directly played a duration card. If you play KC 1 on KC 2, it doesn't matter what KC 2 does: KC 1 will never be left out in the duration area.

88
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best Dominion Moments 2014
« on: November 12, 2014, 08:14:08 pm »
Didn't save the log, but had a nice finish.

A Minion/Ironmonger game had turned into a slog because of Familiar and greening.
We were both hopelessly grabbing Duchies and Estates and there was just one Province left, neither of us had hit $8 for a long time.

I had an Armory in hand and was near the end of my shuffle. I tried to remember and thought I might have an Estate left in my deck, so I gained a Baron, chose to discard my hand with Minion and luckily I had that Estate, discarded it for $4 and bought the last Province.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141110/log.541ddbcce4b0da23272bc4d8.1415624532843.txt#2-22 seems to be the game you are thinking of?

89
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« on: November 12, 2014, 07:24:31 pm »
Is it user avatars taking up all the space, or something else?  If it's avatar images, I can take a look at moving them to some free host with an API that Salvager can use, like imgur, after I finish my current non-work project.

User avatars take up an amount of space that is not even noticeable. The space all goes to saving game logs and statistics/indexes on them.

90
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« on: November 12, 2014, 03:03:46 pm »
I just installed Salvager today and it's not uploading my avatar. I resized the file to 100x100 and tried it in both .png and .jpg format. What's going on?

I think when I first uploaded my avatar it didn't take effect right away? The icons might be cached somewhere. You could try refreshing while clearing your browser's cache with like Ctrl-Shift-R (or whatever it is for your particular browser).

91
Dominion Articles / Re: Top 10 Cards beginners don't understand
« on: November 11, 2014, 10:15:17 pm »
1. Overbuy him to get dual copies of engine components on the cheap. E.g. with a Hunting Party deck, you often want to pay 7 and nab to Hunting parties (then use the Stone Mason to clear estates). If you have $X, then you can get $2X - 4 value (excluding Stonemason). This can be viable even if the Stonemason is a dead card to you itself (either sift or trash past it)

Do you really want to Stonemason your Estates into two Coppers each in a Hunting Party stack? Estates aren't much worse than Copper with Hunting Party, unless you can get rid of them all; even if you do, that's three more junk cards in your deck, decreasing the frequency with which you draw Hunting Party in your opening hand.

92
I suggested this guy just resign after my second round of drawing my whole hand with 4-5 torturers and 2 merchant guilds.

How is nobody commenting on this yet? If anything in your post grinds my gears, it is this. Am I the only one who thinks it's super rude to say "Hey man, I'm beating you really badly, but I'm getting tired of clicking on cards, can you just leave?"

93
Dominion League / Re: Season 4 - game reports A & B
« on: November 08, 2014, 04:35:45 pm »
Report when log search is back up.

You asked for comments on the Ambassador/Wharf game. I agree the Curse buy was very bad: with just one Ambassador, you can only return whatever your opponent gives you each turn; you'll never have a chance to give him Curses. Having gotten it, though, I think you were committed to a thinner deck with lots of junking, and I think you needed to get a second Ambassador instead of a Silver, along with the Wharf you bought.

I think it was your opponent's second Ambassador, combined with all your Treasure buys, that made his deck a reliable engine and reduced yours to Wharf BM: you had too many non-actions to get Ironmongers to connect.

94
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« on: November 07, 2014, 05:15:17 pm »
what happened to the isotropish rating?
No ratings since yesterday and the Ranking site vanished at all?!

No logs saved, either. Really bummed about that, too.

The logs are all saved on Goko's server's, not AI's. Whenever he fixes the current problem, old logs will be loaded as part of the catch-up.

95
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greening traps?
« on: November 05, 2014, 09:36:15 pm »
I'm sure everyone here has heard of PPR - in a game without or with unreliable +Buy it's dangerous to get the second-to-last Province because the other player might have more VP than you blah blah blah. There's also that tactic of trashing all but one opening Estate so you can win on an even Province split.

I'd like to step in here because this is a common mis-statement of PPR that can lead to some really disastrous decisions if applied literally. A good, concise statement of the Penultimate Province Guideline is: If there are two Provinces left, and +buy is hard to come by, and either deck could hit 8 any time, and you are currently behind but could get ahead-or-tied by buying anything but Province, then don't buy the Province. So if you are losing by one or two: buy a Duchy. If you're behind by three as second player, buy a Duchy.

Otherwise, get the Province. I have seen countless games in which someone is winning by two points, and buys a Duchy because there are only two Provinces left, citing PPR. This is a disastrously poor decision when the next turn is only good for another Duchy, while opponent gets both remaining Provinces for the win. If the leading player had just bought the province, extending their lead to 8 points, the game would be much, much more secure. Similarly I have seen players who are losing by four points pick up a Duchy. PPR does not tell you to do this! If you're already behind by four, you need both Provinces to win! So, buy one of them now while you still can!

Anyway, this is only tangentially related to your more general "greening traps" question, but I try to prevent these misunderstandings of PPR.



On the topic of your original question: similar things happen in games with (for example) Remodel, where either player has the "option" to remove a Province from the supply by remodeling a Province into another Province. I recall a game I played against Temron about a month ago, where he had out-done me in the engine-building phase, ending up with a much better deck than me. We could each reliably hit single Province, so it looked very bad for me, but I bought the first Province, and with six Provinces left in the supply I bought one and milled another, leaving only four. This altered the pace of the game enough that I could come out ahead.



Now for some more abstract theory-stuff about the general case of such situations: this is all an interesting situation related to the theoretical "game" of Nim, which is covered in some math and computer-science classes. There are N objects and you take turns removing between 1 and M of them, and the goal is to be the player who takes the last object. In terms of the Dominion game I mentioned, N is 6 and M is 2: you want to take the last Province because then you can do some other stuff on the same turn, like get Duchies or Forge your Tactician or whatever. You use your trashing flexibility to get you on the winning side of that Nim divide.

In fact, ordinary PPR is related to Nim too: take N=2 and M=1. You want the last Province, but you need to be ahead before reducing N to 1 so that your opponent can't take the last one and still win. This would even extend out to N=8: if players built perfectly-reliable decks before even beginning to green, you would never want to buy the first Province!

96
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Appropriate Pace of Play
« on: November 05, 2014, 03:52:51 pm »
If you are obviously going to win without playing your engine optimally, you should play faster and/or end the game on piles ASAP. If it's a close game and you need to eke all the value you can from your engine, the other player will just have to live with the slowness.

Certainly if you like, you can choose to aim for a fast ending instead of perfectly maximizing your score, when it's clear you're winning anyway. But if it's clear that even sloppy play from me will lead to a win, and my opponent is so pressed for time that he feels it's worthwhile to say "please hurry up" in the chat, then he should just resign. If I happen to notice that I have a fast win on the current turn then I will usually remember to take it instead of maximizing the turn, but I don't feel any obligation to make my play weaker unless there is a 100% win available immediately.

97
Help! / Re: What do you think?
« on: November 05, 2014, 01:19:41 pm »
This reminds me that I'm always confused as to what to do when I'm going for a Dukes but spike $8 once Duchies are gone.

buy a province
Seems right. At least, gotta be correct if you've won the Duchy split.

Still feels icky somehow.

You prefer Duchy over Province early because they will be making your Dukes stronger later. Preferring Duke over Province doesn't make as much sense: Duke is worth 5 (or whatever), and Province is worth 6. You take the one that's worth more and is harder to get to: you can get the Duke more easily later than the Province. And it's even more important if you lost the Duchy split: why are you giving up 3 points and shortening the game when you're already behind?

98
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« on: November 03, 2014, 08:57:27 pm »
i have been having trouble with the prettifier links from log searches. 

this link leads to a page that says "loading" and never loads https://www.gokosalvager.com:8889/static/logprettifier.html?20141006/log.5083d05fa2e6ac658be2b342.1412623522150.txt

remove :8889 and change https to http and you get a working page: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20141006/log.5083d05fa2e6ac658be2b342.1412623522150.txt

The log prettifier tries to fetch the game logs from Goko's servers as plaintext (over http), whether or not you're connected via HTTPS. It's a security violation to fetch HTTP content on a page secured with HTTPS, so your browser prevents that attempt. If you use http://www.gokosalvager.com as your starting point instead of https://gokosalvager.com, you won't get links to this broken prettifier page.

99
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: October 30, 2014, 04:42:56 pm »
Heh, some solutions that work here, but not the one I was thinking of. Not surprised there's lots of ways to do it though.

My solution was:

Turn 1 draw 5c, buy Doctor, overpay 2, trash OE, Nec, draw Hovel
Turn 2 draw 4c, Doctor (shuffle after drawing 3c). Play Doctor trashing Hovel, discarding 2c. Buy Island.
Turn 3 draw 3c, Doctor, Island. Island Doctor, buy Estate
Turns 4-5 buy Estate.


Doctor doesn't discard the two Coppers, it puts them back on top of your deck. It's not possible to draw your Island and Doctor together on turn 3 after that line of play. Now, you can set aside on a turn later than 3, so the general method is okay, but the details are wrong. On the other hand, I don't buy that having stuff on your Island mat counts as exactly your ordinary 10-card deck: stuff over there is still "in your deck", you just don't draw it. So I wouldn't accept this solution.

100
Game Reports / Re: Soothsayer/Tournament versus Witch/City
« on: October 30, 2014, 03:58:02 pm »
Like the other respondents, I thought Witch/City sounded pretty cool, but I noticed something else troublesome in your story: you tried to keep the Tournament pile about as low as the Curse pile? Emptying Tournaments is not often that great: you just want to line one up with a Province, you don't want to fill your deck with them. Once your opponent has a Province or two, those Tournaments start to feel more and more like Curses. I see that at the end of the game you had seven of them, and the pile was empty: you helped your opponent get the surprise pile-out on you. Plus, you had to spend a bunch of time buying all those up, when Silvers would probably have been more helpful; contrarily, your opponent had a bunch of top-tier Cities for a couple turns, meaning that picking up a Tournament at the end to finish it was easy for him. If you had not bought any Cities at all, and not aimed so hard for the Tournament pile, you could have denied him those two turns of activation, and denied him the pile-out.

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