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19901

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko rating system

« on: February 13, 2014, 11:31:06 am »

the rating is supposed to reflect your skill. that means being competitive = wanting very much to win or have a higher rating than other people = caring about your rating

That doesn't follow. Wanting to win doesn't necessarily mean you care about your ranking on a stupid leaderboard, it just means you want to win. A competitive person will be more concerned that the leaderboard ACTUALLY measures skill, and if it does, then they will care about their position. If it can't be shown that the leaderboard accurately measures skill, competitive people will find some other way to track "who's the best".

that's true. it's just that i don't actually have any problem with the leaderbord, players who have higher rankings generally seem to be better. but i agree, if you thought that the leaderbord is arbitrary, you wouldn't care about it even if you're competitive

19902

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko rating system

« on: February 13, 2014, 10:48:42 am »

That's not how I read it at all. They encourage people to not get too obsessed with ratings = They prefer casuals. Prefering one thing is not the same as saying the opposite is bad.

The fact that they want to market this towards casuals should NOT come as a surprise to anyone.

it kind of is. encouraging someone not to do a certain thing at least implies that this certain thing is bad. he could've said something like: "we're trying to have our ranking reflect the skill of each individual player, but you don't have to be obsessed with it. it's completely fine to enjoy playing the game without caring about your ranking."

it's the difference between: "X is just as fine as Y" and "it's much better to do X than Y".

I also didn't say I was surprised by this statement. I wasn't. the vast majority of all players are casuals. I just said I didn't like it.

19903

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko rating system

« on: February 13, 2014, 08:31:35 am »

being competitive = wanting very much to win or be more successful than other people

the rating is supposed to reflect your skill. that means being competitive = wanting very much to win or have a higher rating than other people = caring about your rating

but we encourage people not to get too obsessed about ratings.

= caring to much about ratings is a bad thing = being competetive is a bad thing.

seems pretty explicit to me.

19904

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko rating system

« on: February 12, 2014, 06:34:09 pm »

i hate this statement:

but we encourage people not to get too obsessed about ratings. It's much better to enjoy playing the game.

it basically says being competetive is a bad thing.

also, without knowing anything about rating systems, i find this really strange:

For example, in your very first game you lose a game against a 2000 player and get a rating somewhat lower, say 1600. In your second game, you beat a 1000 player. If you just look at your results so far -- a win vs. 1000 and a loss vs. 2000 -- a best guess for your rating is reasonably 1500. However, assigning you 1500 means that your rating has just gone down 100 points for the win.

If your only game is a loss to someone with a 2k rating, why would your estimated ranking me 1600? that suggests that it matters how high ranked the guy you played is. but why does the system think you're a better player when you lost to a 2k rating instead of a 6k rating? or let's hypothetically say you lost against someone with a 10k rating, then your estimated rating is like 7k? how does that make any sense, it doesn't require skill to lose games. why isn't your estimated ranking just zero until you win a game?

19905

Dominion Articles / Re: Let's talk about Golem

« on: February 12, 2014, 05:49:27 pm »

i dont think golem/mountebank is a thing. at least not early. the card snowballs too hard.

but in a colony game, golem/golem/sheme/sheme/counting house might work. always sheme both golems on top. it's not a guaranteed colony, but if you have a huge deck it makes it very likely.

19906

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mill: A spinoff of Workshop and Hamlet

« on: February 12, 2014, 05:00:15 pm »

No offense was taken, by the way. I don't have Dark Ages, so I guess I just forgot that my card was pretty close to Armory. I do like your idea of changing it to "Trash a card from your hand; Gain a card costing up to $4, putting it on top of your deck." I also think that dropping it up to "gain a card costing up to $3, putting it on top of your deck" would be a good idea as well.

that's still way too strong for $4. compare it to altar, altar trashes a card and you gain a card costing up to $5. now granted, 5$ and $4 is a big difference, but still altar is $6 and it's also one of the strongest $6 in the game. changing it to 3$ would make a big difference, because all the spammable action cards are $4+

Well, not all of them. Fishing Village, Wishing Well, Scheme, and heck even Silver are at $3. That's just to name a few. But in general I think it's worth trying it this way.

well, fishing village and sheme dont do anything on their own, and wishing well is fairly weak. i mostly meant ironmonger, cavaran, tournament and advisor. cantrip actions that you want as many of as possible that boost your deck.

that said, i still don't think the card would be very intersting if you reduce $4 to $3, because it'd be too similar to hermit.
hermit is: look through your discard pile. you may trash a card from your hand or your discard pile that's not a treasure. gain card costing up to $3... well and it has the madman part, but still. that's nothing new.

19907

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Mill: A spinoff of Workshop and Hamlet

« on: February 12, 2014, 04:05:04 pm »

No offense was taken, by the way. I don't have Dark Ages, so I guess I just forgot that my card was pretty close to Armory. I do like your idea of changing it to "Trash a card from your hand; Gain a card costing up to $4, putting it on top of your deck." I also think that dropping it up to "gain a card costing up to $3, putting it on top of your deck" would be a good idea as well.

that's still way too strong for $4. compare it to altar, altar trashes a card and you gain a card costing up to $5. now granted, 5$ and $4 is a big difference, but still altar is $6 and it's also one of the strongest $6 in the game. changing it to 3$ would make a big difference, because all the spammable action cards are $4+

19908

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition

« on: February 12, 2014, 08:33:46 am »

does it even make sense to use the duel mode? i understand its appeal, but it's so tedius. you need at least n log(n) duels, that's about 400 duels for the 5$ cards. in the alternative mode, i find myself using something similiar to insertion sort, which in theory takes a lot longer, but it doesn't really take long, because you just look at f.e. igg and you instantly know it needs to be somehwere near the top. you just have to find the perfect spot.

circles will also happen a lot more often in the duel mode. it's still cool though.

I did the full list thing. Even though I was just copying what I had on a spreadsheet, it still took me about 30 minutes to do the sort.

getting through all cards with duel mode equals ~ 200*ld(256) = 1600 duels. if you spend 5 sec thinking for each duel, that's 8000 sec ~ two and a half hour. and that's assuming ld(n)*n, when in reality all sorting algorithms need more than that.

unless you already sorted all individual lists and it takes that into accout. don't know how much that would change.

19909

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Procession logs

« on: February 12, 2014, 07:32:26 am »

It's use is limited, but it really shines with one shots (Makes Festival great), as well as a lot of Dark ages cards. Personally I think it's good to turn early game cards like Sage into more useful cards, but I never feel like you need more than 1 or 2 Processions.

that's definitely wrong imo... if you go allout for it for it you need lots and lots of processions, because the ultimate goal is always to procession - procession - drawer - procession - continue a turn. and then you lose a bunch of processions, and because most drawers are $5, that means you get a lot of drawers. but you also lose drawers, because you want to play them twice to draw lots of cards. that's obviously not possible on every board, and if it's not you might be fine with just 1 or 2, but it is on some.

imo procession is the single most difficult to use card in the game. i'm far from understanding it perfectly, but it has so much potential... so damn much

19910

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition

« on: February 12, 2014, 07:21:14 am »

does it even make sense to use the duel mode? i understand its appeal, but it's so tedius. you need at least n log(n) duels, that's about 400 duels for the 5$ cards. in the alternative mode, i find myself using something similiar to insertion sort, which in theory takes a lot longer, but it doesn't really take long, because you just look at f.e. igg and you instantly know it needs to be somehwere near the top. you just have to find the perfect spot.

circles will also happen a lot more often in the duel mode. it's still cool though.

19911

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)

« on: February 11, 2014, 01:32:36 pm »

As for the downloads, I'm not planning to update those sheets every time I change the cards. It took me quite a while to make those PDFs. I only put them together because Nic wanted them. If I put them in the OP, they'd become outdated pretty quickly. If I finalize the set and get a 100% assurance that it will never be published, I'll make the downloads more accessible.

i see. makes sense.

Unfortunately, the only way I know to proxy up cards is with sleeves. If you want to play with the cards, you'll probably have to sleeve your entire Dominion set. I think that's worth doing in general, though.

Thanar is correct about buying sets to use for sleeved custom cards. Blanks are a waste of money. The most cost-effective way to do this is to buy a couple of Dominion: Base Cards boxes. They're $12 apiece on Amazon for 250 cards each. Then you can use your old Coppers, Provinces, etc. as fan cards. And you get nice, new base cards with art in the bargain! It's win-win. This solution doesn't give you blue-backed randomizers, though. If you need those, Hinterlands is your most cost-effective option.

If you don't already own Seaside, buy that. You can use Embargo tokens for Trade tokens and upside-down mats for Investment.

thanks, i own all extensions so 'll probably go with ordering two of the base boxes.

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game.

I've done that with promos previously, but it's not the same... is misses the certain feeling

19912

General Discussion / Re: Anti-Joke Thread

« on: February 11, 2014, 03:35:08 am »

How do you avoid the luck factor of rebuild?

you dont play with it

19913

General Discussion / Re: Why f.ds is such an awesome online community

« on: February 11, 2014, 02:25:12 am »

oh and btw this

this community is full of nice and intelligent people? that's... great, wow, i haven't noticed.

is not complaining.

It's not complaining. It's slightly rude, and implies that we're idiots. If you don't see how this comment is actually negative, then I suggest you be a lot more careful in future posts, because you need to know that this won't get a positive response.

of couse the comment is negative. it's supposed to be negative. but it's not complaining. complaining implies that i have some kind of problem with it, which is not the case. and it doesn't imply that anyone is an idiot, either, much less everyone. you're thinking was too black and white. all it implies is that there aren't exclusively or almost exclusively amazing people in this community.

19914

General Discussion / Re: Why f.ds is such an awesome online community

« on: February 11, 2014, 01:30:30 am »

I am mostly happy with the direction the community has taken.  I appreciate the desire for open discourse but don't think that we should coddle unsubstantiated "wrong" ideas.  Sometimes people phrase their criticisms so poorly it sounds like a personal attack, and then I try to intervene; sometimes there are areas of legitimate dispute; but overall, high-quality discourse begets high-quality discourse. 

If we tolerated bad ideas under the guise of free expression, I believe it would end up hurting the community overall.  BGG Dominion forums are (were?) a cesspool because bad ideas were tolerated and good ideas ended up being discouraged, because why bother going to the effort of explaining why Chancellor isn't the strongest $3 card in the game when everyone's opinion is given equal weight regardless of the evidence?

I'm sorry if you felt picked on, silverspawn, but I can try to assure you that it's not personal.  Tone comes across very poorly on internet message boards.  It's just that collectively, we've played several million games of Dominion by now, and so extraordinary claims that go against the collective wisdom require some extraordinary evidence.  Major shifts in thinking do happen -- no one believed in Duchy/Duke for a long time until WanderingWinder, I think -- but for every brilliant, undiscovered novelty, there are hundreds of refuted claims.

Mh, I think I should clarify some things. I never actually said this is a bad community. All I did was implying that I don't think it's "full of nice and intelligent people", but that doesn't mean much, there is no community for which I'd say that statement applies. In fact, of all communities i'm a part of, I think this one and the mlp com. probably come closest. There is undeniably a higher percentage of intelligent people here than in the communites lol, dota2 or sc2. I'd be happy if I could call even a quarter of all people in either of those "nice and intelligent". And I've been "picked on" way more for other things in the past, so... I can handle it 

oh and btw this

this community is full of nice and intelligent people? that's... great, wow, i haven't noticed.

is not complaining.

19915

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)

« on: February 11, 2014, 12:22:03 am »

ok, so, first of all: this looks really good. almost all cards are interesting and it feels like there's a lot of thought put into making this expansion.

second, i'd encourage you to put some more stuff into the opening post, like the downloads for the current versions of all cards, and the "picture post", or maybe a link to it. it'd make it easier to find stuff without having to look for it in the thread.

third: i would love to play with these, but but how would go about getting them to be physical cards? I mean, obviously you can print them, but having cards made out of paper isn't exactly ideal. you could glue them onto blanks, but i don't have nearly enough blanks. you can buy them here:
http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/dominion-blank-cards
but that's ridiculously overpriced. i also don't use sleeves, because i play mostly online. my brother once made a cube of mtg cards by printing and glueing them onto a bunch of basic lands, but that doesn't really work here; there aren't any cards left to spare in dominion. i guess you could buy a copy of dark ages and use all of the cards ans pseudo-blanks, but that doesn't seem like a very elegant way. should i just start using sleeves?

19916

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition

« on: February 10, 2014, 10:56:31 am »

This should be now possible. Just click on the red X beside the card in the section "Ignored cards".

yap. thanks

19917

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: February 10, 2014, 10:47:00 am »

Hi everyone, long time since I've played Dominion.

Catch-22 $4
Action
You win.
---------
When you gain this, if you don't have a copy of Catch-22 in your deck or discard pile or hand, return this to the supply.

If I've got the rules right, there should be one way to get Catch-22 into your deck.

i don't see it... but i can just band of misfits it and win instantly

19918

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 10, 2014, 09:33:19 am »

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

Occasionally the rulebook is wrong, or something discovered/decided later causes them to update the rules.
The original rulebook is not the absolute and unchangeable Word of God. Particularly when it's been translated.

If only it was occasionally, at least the German translations are full of mistakes.
@silverspawn: http://forum.dominionblog.de/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1338

ok that's... extreme. wow.

19919

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 09, 2014, 09:31:56 pm »

Is this the German version of the seaside rulebook?

yea, 6 pages, blue design, a nice cover on the front page.

Here are the English Seaside rules: riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=441 [downloads pdf immediately]

I can't find the line you say in there. Why would a translator add this? I have no idea, but translators have done the weirdest things with Dominion (if I recall correctly, the German translators have done other changes which they thought to be convenient but which were incredibly awkward).

But the question is: what is the right way to play this? Can anyone find a quote from Donald somewhere (or ask him)?

well, since i'm the only one who knows the alternative rule, we can be pretty sure that the game doesn't end after all, and my rule book just got it wrong for whatever reason.

19920

General Discussion / Re: Why f.ds is such an awesome online community

« on: February 09, 2014, 09:15:27 pm »

this community is full of nice and intelligent people? that's... great, wow, i haven't noticed.

Comments like this won't make people nice. If you don't like it here, don't come?? No one is forcing you, but this comment seems passive aggressive.

that's like saying: if you don't like the dota community, stop playing. or: if you don't like german culture, move away. or: if you don't like humans, stop ever going outside

thanks for underlining my point though

19921

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 09, 2014, 08:25:47 pm »

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

I'm a little leery trusting a translated version because there have been so many errors. That does sound like something that is unlikely to have been added during translation though.

Hmmm...
I recall this being discussed previously, and the conclusion (either through a rulebook or Donald X. quote)
Ok. I just checked the English seaside rulebook and there's no mention of the three-pile rule at all.
Yeah, ok. I just checked the base dominion rules and the wording is definitely different than the rules you just quoted:

"The game ends at the end of any player’s turn when either:
1) the Supply pile of Province cards is empty or
2) any 3 Supply piles are empty."

So the conditions are checked at the end of the turn. I'm pretty sure the ambassador thing does not end the game then.

but my rulebook has this line:

The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"
original: Das Spiel endet auch, wenn einer der zunächst leeren Stapel (z.B. durch den Botschafter) im gleichen Zug wieder aufgefüllt wird.

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

19922

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 09, 2014, 08:20:09 pm »

You are most definitely wrong about this one. The game end condition is only checked after the clean-up phase of a player's turn. If at that time, the condition is not met, then the game does not end.

i quoted it from my seaside rulebook... it explicitely states that the game also ends when you use amb to refill one of the piles. So you're saying that the rulebook is wrong? How could that be? It can't be a translation error.

i don't have another source... i thought it my rulebook says so I could rely on that. Isn't that, you know, what it's for?

19923

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 09, 2014, 08:04:09 pm »

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

19924

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Procession and Lighthouse

« on: February 09, 2014, 07:24:42 pm »

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

19925

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition

« on: February 09, 2014, 06:42:18 pm »

mh... is it possible to get a card "back" when you accidently clicked on "I don't know this card"?