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Messages - faust

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This is a very intense convoy that's marching right into the river!

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Can the submission use expansion-specific mechanics from other expansions?

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 22, 2024, 10:52:00 am »
Well to be fair, when I originally challenged you on Musk, it's not like I expected the path he went down since then. I may have thought he was a bit full of himself and self-serving, but more bad on the level that someone like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos is bad rather than pushing Neonazi talking points bad.

It would be really cool to have a good breakdown of how he got radicalized. It's such a public case, and it reflects lots of issues that happen with less public people all the time, and if we understood how it happened and how to prevent it, we might get something positive out of it at least.

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Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #213: GREEN
« on: March 21, 2024, 10:11:13 am »


Quote
Monkstead -- Action/Victory -- 5$

Trash a card from your hand.
-
Worth 7VP if you have exactly 7 Victory cards in your deck (otherwise worth 0VP).
I've been thinking about this, and I like the concept, but I wonder if it's actually interesting to play. What even are the use cases for this?

The big one is megaturns. Your opponent has a 6-Province lead, and this gives go the chance to grab lots of VP for the win. Well that's fine, but it's not really using anything special about the design, it's just a way to convert your deck power into VP. So here it's useful, but not interesting.

And otherwise? As your main VP source, this only works if you can end the game somehow. The thing is: If you can end the game, so can your opponent. And you're boxing yourself in quite significantly with Monksteads. I'm not sure that Monkstead as a win condition works unless you can get them in like 1-2 turns, and that's already basically the megaturn scenario.

The final use case is late-game pressure. You can just go for one of these over Duchy or even Province for the extra VP, but it will bite you if the Duchy dancing goes on for longer. This is actually some nice nuance and interesting decision making. So the card is not terrible, I just wish it had some more interesting use cases.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 19, 2024, 12:03:54 pm »
Though I feel like the term "win-win", while not describing this thing exactly, does enough for discussing it in an everyday or political context.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 19, 2024, 12:00:46 pm »
It's a major failure of game theory not to have a name for the 2x2 game in which both players have a dominant strategy that also leads to the best outcome for both (i.e., the game with only one nash equilibrium that's also the only pareto optimal result). This game is ubiquitous in real life, and it also describes the situation that the state should strive to achieve in basically every context. But no, we only have games where the situation is suboptimal and game theory has something to analyze.
May I suggest the technical term "lame game"?

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 09:25:21 am »
Anyways I think I'm done talking about hypothetical trans people without dysphoria that have not been shown to exist in real life.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 09:19:28 am »
Quote
My conception of a trans person is just "a person whose gender assigned at birth does not match the gender they perceive themselves to be". Whether this comes with dysphoria is not integral.

What if someone is born female, identifies as female, but wants to be male and starts transitioning -- but continues to perceive themselves as female a lot of the time (and hence continues to suffer). Is this person not trans?
Female is a sex term usually, so I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. As for "someone identifies as a man but wants to be a woman" -  I don't know what that means.

Well, you ask the person "do you think you're a man or a woman" and they say "a woman". You clarify, "do you mean you feel like you're perceived as that socially, or do you feel like you are that", and they say "I feel like I am that". Then you ask "do you like being a woman" and they respond "no I hate it, I constantly suffer because I feel uncomfortable being a woman, I would like to be a man more than anything".

And we can additionally stipulate that they already took steps to transition.

According to your definition, this person is not trans. I think that's grossly wrong.
I can't tell if you're just nitpicking at phrasing or if there is some broader point here.

The imagined dialogue could come from a cis woman who thinks her position in society sucks because of patriarchy. I'm sure you can find lots of women in Afghanistan who will tell you that they would rather be a man. They will not all be trans.

Conversely, it could also be dialogue coming from a trans man that uses language in a way different from me. I don't know just based on what you posted.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 08:28:08 am »
I don't think the left has compassion for Blair White.

I'm not going to look up who this is, but what I meant to say is that all else equal the left obviously has compassion for trans people.
All else equal the left has compassion for everyone.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 08:27:29 am »
Quote
My conception of a trans person is just "a person whose gender assigned at birth does not match the gender they perceive themselves to be". Whether this comes with dysphoria is not integral.

What if someone is born female, identifies as female, but wants to be male and starts transitioning -- but continues to perceive themselves as female a lot of the time (and hence continues to suffer). Is this person not trans?
Female is a sex term usually, so I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. As for "someone identifies as a man but wants to be a woman" -  I don't know what that means.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 08:25:30 am »
it is also true that people can claim to be black, and this will get accepted

Only if other people think they're born black! It's not at all accepted for people to transition into another ethnicity or race, that's the point; do you disagree with this?
No; I think trans people are also only accepted if other people think they are born trans.
How does this work if gender is just a social thing? Doesn't that contradict the idea that you're born trans?

And no one born white can actually identify as black?
Well, you're not so much born trans as assigned a gender at birth that may or may not match your gender preference.

I'm not super deep into the topic of race, so I don't really want to discuss it further.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 07:28:03 am »
Yet the left obviously has compassion for anyone claiming to be trans.
I don't think the left has compassion for Blair White.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 07:23:43 am »
it is also true that people can claim to be black, and this will get accepted

Only if other people think they're born black! It's not at all accepted for people to transition into another ethnicity or race, that's the point; do you disagree with this?
No; I think trans people are also only accepted if other people think they are born trans.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 07:22:42 am »
I still don't understand how the "left goes further left -> country goes further left" causal mechanism is supposed to work, like at all. The way I think it works is that social media (and even mainstream media to an extent) picks out the most extreme things on the other side and people define themselves in opposition to that. The more extreme the left, the more ammunition for the right and vice versa. I think there's lots of evidence that this happens. So the causal mechanisms I see is "left goes further left -> median goes further right" and "right goes further right -> median goes further left". (Feel free to respond to this or not.)
I decided to respond to this separately because it's really a different topic.

I think in order to discuss this on a level of evidence, we would first need to agree on specific time periods where either thing could be observed. You say there is lots of evidence; can you lay it out for me?

For the US, I would say: The extreme right has shifted further right pretty consistenty since Reagan and leading up to Trump. The extreme left, in the same time, has shifted towards the center under Clinton, then gradually shifted to the left during the later Obama years and more significantly starting with the 2016 primary.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 07:10:18 am »
@First two paragraphs: Ok so this was clearly communicated poorly. My point was that

(1) there is an incentive for people claiming to be trans, and
(2) there is not much of a downside for doing so, therefore
(3) there will be people who aren't serious claiming to be trans

I brought up Jordan Peterson only as evidence for (1).
I fail to see how Jordan Petersen is evidence for (1). I don't know what the incentive is.

"There is not much downside for doing so" is a pretty wild claim. There may not be much downside for doing so form inside the trans community, but you know, transphobia exists, and people who publicly say they're trans will be harassed, assaulted and quite possibly receive death threats.

So transphobic people made a terrible argument, but the all-inclusive philosophy retroactively makes the argument non-terrible for a different context. That was the point, which confess sounds much more complicated in writing than in my head.
Except the argument remains terrible. A man can just go into a woman's bathroom without claiming to be trans, you know? It's not like there is someone at the entrance who checks your ID. Then if they are called out, they can say they made a mistake instead of saying they're trans. This whole bathroom thing is so silly.

I meant "can" in the sense of "if they decide to claim to be trans, they'll get accepted. And in that sense, you are absolutely saying that (or if not I don't understand the position).
Well yes, this is true. You made a comparison to race, and it is also true that people can claim to be black, and this will get accepted, because there are white people that can pass as black and vice versa. Noone is doing a race purity check.

And what is your position here? Even if we allow dysphoria as the signifier, what is stopping people from falsely claiming to be dysphoric?

Finally, to be perfectly clear, I don't think "people fake being trans" is a thing that happens on any significant scale, and you failed to present any evidence for this. Therefore all of this remains completely hypothetical.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 15, 2024, 04:14:45 am »
So much to address... let's go point by point.

At the same time the culture alienates white cis men
if these spaces are inevitably dominated by people who don't actually have gender dysphoria [...] then you've destroyed the [...] community
You seem to be at the same time arguing that "these spaces" (whatever that means) are too exclusive and not exclusive enough. So which is it?

Generally, I think right now there is a miniscule amount of trans people who do not experience dysphoria, so all of this pearl-clutching seems way overblown to me. But let's say there is a problem where you're in a space and the number of people with gender dysphoria is small. So what's stopping you from forming a gender dysphoria support group, which is explicitly for people with gender dysphoria? There, problem solved.

Yet you also give anyone of these men the opportunity to get all this attention and social status, and you remove all the barriers that made this costly. The argument against worries that men will claim to be trans to do weird shit has always been that no one would go through the process just for that, and that's true, but it stops being true if you remove all barriers for entry.
So, I'm confused about a number of things here. The first sentence: Are you still talking about the like of Jordan Petersen (which was what the last sentence was about), or are you talking about men who claim to be trans (which seems to me like it makes more sense contextually, but less sense grammatically)?

Then we get to the next bit: What exactly are you worried about here? We're talking about trans communities still, right? Is the worry that men will enter trans spaces to sexually assault trans people? Usually this concern is more framed around men predating on cis women, but that doesn't make sense in this context.

Ultimately, if someone is doing a sexual assault, that is illegal, regardless of whether they are a cis men, someone who claim to be trans for some nefarious purpose, or an actual trans person. In either of these cases, it is fine and probably good (and from my experience also what tends to happen) if the community shuns them.

And if these spaces are inevitably dominated by people who don't actually have gender dysphoria (I'm saying if but afaik this has already more than happened)
And this is definitely the point where I go: "And where is the evidence for that?"

Do you not see how softening the trans label and removing all barriers of entry makes the entire thing that much less credible?
No. Some women get operations to reduce their cup size because it is medically indicated; they have chronic back pain otherwise. Other women do it for cosmetic reasons, or because they don't like how society treats them if the have big breasts. Does anyone argue that the latter makes the former less credible?

I continue to think that fighting the political extremes on your side is one of the most important things to do to win elections
Come on, you cannot expect to win any ground with that argument with me. I am the political extreme. The problem is, and continues to be, that the right does not fight their political extreme, and they are decently successful with that strategy. If the left was to fight their political extreme, the result would just be that political discourse shifhts further and further right as the right opens the Overton window to that side and the left continues to shut it down on the other side. And look at the political landscape - this is exactly what is happening.

And it also just muddies the waters. You're lumping two completely different things under the same label; this is just bad instrumental rationality and bound to lead to problems like people following the wrong advice.
You claim this, but I don't think I do. My conception of a trans person is just "a person whose gender assigned at birth does not match the gender they perceive themselves to be". Whether this comes with dysphoria is not integral.

Here's a spicy analogy (and please don't think that I want to make the case that what you're doing is equally bad): When colonialists went to Africa/America and encountered indigenous peoples, they could by the same token claim "you're lumping two completely different things under the same label" if you referred to both white and indigenous people as "humans".

But faust literally likened it to someone getting a haircut. If the positive stakes are that low, then yeah, it seems to me that allowing everyone into the fold is a huge net negative.
This just seems like bad faith to me. My haircut comparison obviously wasn't meant to say that transitioning is on the same level in terms of stakes, I just wanted to know why you think there is a categorical difference between the two. To be fair, Awaclus made this point better. Unfortunately you did not respond.

And also if we are going to say that everyone can be trans, why don't we do the same for race?
I am not saying that "everyone can be trans". Please don't strawman my position.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 12:21:51 pm »
Ok, but is it possible that there are many of them, lots of them watch destiny's stream because they feel like they don't belong anywhere else (obviously not in right wing spaces, and also not in trans spaces), and hundreds of them write to him describing how they feel, and that's how he has these beliefs, i.e., out of compassion rather than transphobia?
It's possible. You will notice that I did not call Destiny transphobic. But even if he has these beliefs out of compassion, that doesn't make them good views. Destiny mentioned Contrapoints, so I know that at least on some level he has engaged with different points of view and rejected them, so this is not a question of ignorance.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 12:17:24 pm »
Like why is it not definitionally the case that people who transition without dysphoria have no good reason to transition?
IDK, if I go to the hairdresser despite having no hair dysphoria, do I have no good reason to go to the hairdresser?

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Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #213: GREEN
« on: March 14, 2024, 11:32:21 am »
Border Land would make games reach a point where it doesn't make sense to buy more Provinces (if your opponent has 3 Border Lands, Duchy is better). This could lead to pretty drawn-out games.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 11:25:57 am »
Most gay people in the 50s would probably have pressed a button to make themselves not-gay, so was being gay a sickness in the 50s?

Do you think that in the future, if trans rights improve as much as gay rights have improved since the 50s until now, people with gender dysphoria would not press a button to make themselves not dysphoric?
I think that in an ideal future, fewer people would experience gender dysphoria because the concept of gender would be erased.

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 11:24:30 am »
Citation needed! I mean sure it's a theoretical spectrum, as in, you can find at least one person who has a small desire to change their gender. The question is whether the graph looks like this or like this
Seems to me like assuming a normal distribution is a good default, and anything that goes against it is what I'd like to see evidence for.

However I did find this study that seems to indicate a pretty spread-out distribution:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02517-y

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 11:11:24 am »
I can say with certainty that this isn't true; I responded to this point because that's the only point you provided a time stamp for.
Well this is demonstrably false; your first response predates my giving a timestamp.

Do you think it's possible that a lot of people with gender dysphoria think (a) and (b)?
I mean, for some values of "a lot". If you put them all in one place, it would probably be a big crowd. Lots of people with gender dysphoria are also cis, and these ideas are pretty mainstream in such circles, but that is I imagine not what you mean.

Does a majority of trans people with gender dysphoria think that? I strongly doubt it.

If a gay person could press a button and make themselves not-gay, I think most of them wouldn't do that. Certainly I don't think bisexual women would press that button to like men only. But if a person with gender dysphoria could press the button to get rid of their dysphoria, they probably would. So these two things are different in one very important property, which is whether the thing is bad.
Again, I say "trans", and you substitute "gender dysphoric", as if these are the same thing. Most gay people in the 50s would probably have pressed a button to make themselves not-gay, so was being gay a sickness in the 50s?

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 10:18:49 am »
I don't see the difference in category. An ADHD diagnosis is awarded (simplifying here) if you score high enough on some standardized test. If you are just under that threshold and decide to self-medicate, are you using ADHD meds "recreationally"? If not, where is the cutoff?

There isn't a categorical difference. It's a spectrum.

Gender dysphoria is the same. What amount of wanting to change your body to better fit into gender norms is enough in order to be sick? That always changes over time. And also of course, there are trans people that do not transition medically at all, that have no wish to transition, what about them?

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Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: March 14, 2024, 09:15:48 am »
the assumption that being trans is the same as experiencing gender dyphoria, which seems dangerously close to labeling transness as a mental illness.

Isn't the reason why this is dangerous not that it's false, but that it's easier to convince people that a particular thing we don't want them to stigmatize isn't a mental illness than it is to convince them to stop stigmatizing mental illnesses?
I mean, it's a perspective thing to some extent. But illness always carries this notion of "something is wrong here" and that it should be treated to go away. Even in a world where mental illness is not stigmatized I think it's still bad to say "being gay is being sick" or "neurodivergent people are diseased", and the same holds for trans people.

Also the corollary is often "if you don't suffer, you are not trans". Gender dysphoria is correlated to being trans but the two things definitely are not the same; there are cis people with gender dysphoria and there are trans people without it.

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