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4501

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A small expansion which doesn't contain any kingdom cards

« on: February 27, 2013, 11:48:50 am »

Noble -- +$2
Any --> Any - Victory

Act.
Worth 2VP

Noble Feast seems like a good buy

4502

Rules Questions / Re: Thief can trash Spoils, but not gain it - right?

« on: February 26, 2013, 03:35:58 pm »

Well, as all of you are so sure about it, i guess it makes sense. The Trash is not the Supply.
It does seem more natural, after all.
Thanks, guys.

4503

Rules Questions / Re: Thief can trash Spoils, but not gain it - right?

« on: February 26, 2013, 03:25:17 pm »

"OH NOEZ!! I CANNOT GAIN IT FOR IT IZ NOT IN TEH SUPPLY!!"

Those were my exact words... No, really, in my rulebook (translated, too), it clearly says that Spoils can only be gained by Bandit Camp, Marauder or Pillage. Jester can't gain Spoils. Why can Thief?

4504

Rules Questions / Thief can trash Spoils, but not gain it - right?

« on: February 26, 2013, 03:05:49 pm »

A few days ago, we played Dominion (surprise!) and somebody played Thief, revealing a Spoils. We then played with translated cards, and as always this went wrong. Now that i see the english original, am i right if i assume that Thief can trash Spoils, but never actually get them (even though they are in the trash where very few cards can gain from, anyhow)?

EDIT: I believe Thief cannot gain Spoils, as it says in the instructions i own (translated in german), that only Bandit Camp, Marauder and Pillage can gain Spoils. Also remember the fact that if i reveal another players Spoils with my Jester, i also can not gain Spoils.

4505

Introductions / Re: Hello to All : RTT

« on: February 26, 2013, 02:46:12 pm »

Hi Tobi, willkommen
I just showed how bad my english is some days ago, so never mind
Btw: I'd suggest you get Prosperity rather than Alchemy, it's much more for not much more money.

4506

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 02:03:34 pm »

It's not only Trader.  If Alice possesses Bob (which she does so often in my circle...), then Bob could buy something, and then when Alice gains it she could opt for a Swamp instead.

I don't think i get what you mean. If i buy Silver, reveal Trader and gain Silver instead of Silver, i see the old wording is not clear. But with Posession Alice never bought anything, but gains cards, so she could of course gain Swamp instead. or is this about on-buys again?

I see the newer version is more simple than the old one, so i'll just keep it this way. Do you think "If you play or buy this the first time this turn" is clear? Probably not. What would be a better wording? I don't actually care if you get 2 buys when having Swamp in play and buying Swamp (a total of +4 buys, which was what i intended), but i want it to be clear, of course. Any ideas? "If you play this or buy this the first time this turn" would make it an only slightly better card, and i could deal with it.
EDIT: Changed it a bit, again

4507

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 01:23:35 pm »

"While this is in the Supply, when you would gain a card, you may gain this instead."

Thanks for the better wording, i see it's easier to understand.

Is it to prevent Goons abuse?  Still not needed -- the extra +Buy is an on-buy effect, not an on-gain, and it is also limited by card discarding.

Actually Bridge, as pointed out by RTT, is much worse. A pile emptying itself is not good.

I did another version for 0$ now, which makes it more useful on-buy but cannot be emptied with a Bridge in play (older one could). I also removed the discard condition, so there is now no reason at all(?) to buy something else if Swamp is in fact desired. As an action, it now is actually inferior to Necropolis every time it's played after the first. It's still useful in games without enough buys (like Bank games), Jack, Library, Watchtower, other Terminals (esp. terminal draw), and of course, Cursers or Looters.

See post 1 for it.

EDIT: Btw it can not trigger Tunnel on buy, anymore. I guess building a Tunnel under a Swamp is not that good an idea after all...

4508

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 11:59:44 am »

1. The first reason was that i didn't want people having to make the decision every time they buy something. Also, if the card was to cost 1$, you could buy a Copper for 0$ and gain a card costing 1$, instead. I didn't want that, either.
2. Thanks for pointing this out. That's a translation thing again and i'll fix it.

People are already making a decision when they buy something, and it is a natural place for such a pause for thinking.  Moreover, I don't think it would be very common to buy something for the purpose of gaining a Swamp instead.  It's really the mid turn reaction to gaining that would cause the more disruptive decision making, particularly if it's during an opponent's turn.

I see your point, guys. It's just that gaining a 1$ for 0$ isn't something i like. Still i admit that you'll mostly pay the 1$ for its on-buy effect, anyway, at least that's what i believe... Hmm... And it would spare me the Travelling Salesman Trader Problem.

On the other hand, it lets you trigger on buy effects without gaining the card, even withouth using a Reaction. Also, if you want to buy a Swamp and keep the (only) card in your hand (a Watchtower for topdecking it, for example), you could buy a Copper and avoid the discarding this way. Actually, you could do this all the time, adding confusing whenever you actually want to get additional buys.

The one case where "that you did not buy" may be confusing is Trader, and only if you do something that doesn't make sense at all.

About the pause in opponents turns, i think Secret Chamber is far worse than Swamp could ever be. It's probably worse with Looters or Swindler than with Cursers, but still i think it's not too bad.

1. The first reason was that i didn't want people having to make the decision every time they buy something. Also, if the card was to cost 1$, you could buy a Copper for 0$ and gain a card costing 1$, instead. I didn't want that, either.
2. Thanks for pointing this out. That's a translation thing again and i'll fix it.

People are already making a decision when they buy something, and it is a natural place for such a pause for thinking.  Moreover, I don't think it would be very common to buy something for the purpose of gaining a Swamp instead.  It's really the mid turn reaction to gaining that would cause the more disruptive decision making, particularly if it's during an opponent's turn.

Agreed. If you don't want people to be able to do the "Buy a Copper and gain a Swamp" trick, just make Swamp cost $0.

That's why i made this thread, for you guys to help me find the best cost. The problem with 0$ is basically emptying the pile, especially with Goons Bridge.

4509

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 11:33:37 am »

Could you please put the card's info into your post. I can't seem to access the attachment anymore.

EDIT: Ah, I still have access to the image on my phone.

There is a clause in the wording that seems unnecessary, and one that I know is unnecessary.

1. Why do you need the "you did not buy" clause? Is there some issue with letting this happen when you gain a card from buying it?

2. "Discard a card from your hand" should just be "discard a card". When you discard a card, the hand is assumed to be the source unless otherwise stated. See the wording on Beggar for an example.

1. The first reason was that i didn't want people having to make the decision every time they buy something. Also, if the card was to cost 1$, you could buy a Copper for 0$ and gain a card costing 1$, instead. I didn't want that, either.
EDIT: Other reasons are on-buy effects and the possibility to buy another card and gain Swamp instead to avoid the discarding (with a Reaction as the only card in your hand).
2. Thanks for pointing this out. That's a translation thing again and i'll fix it.
EDIT: Fixed.

4510

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: February 26, 2013, 11:23:42 am »

Traitor
$4 Action-Reaction

(something)
---
When another player would gain a card, you may reveal this.  If you do, that player gains a Silver instead.

At first i read "When another player would gain this card". I thought it was something you could work with. Traitors betraying Traitors. Thematically.
I might make something of this...

4511

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 11:19:28 am »

Personally, I think it would be nice for Swamp to be an Action-Victory worth 0 VP.  Mostly for flavor reasons of being worthless land (at least in the eyes of short-sighted economically motivated humans), but also to let it interact with attacks like Bureaucrat, Fortune Teller, and Rabble.

Maybe that's a nice idea after all... I'll see how the card looks as a worthless Victory. My only concern is that it's unnecessary most of the time and will make the card look more confusing - it was difficult enough for me to come up with a simple enough wording. Also it makes the card even stronger if i think of Silk Road, Ironworks, etc.

4512

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 10:49:57 am »

If I buy a Silver, but then reveal a Trader to gain a Silver instead, can I gain a Swamp instead?

Edge case:  Curses and Vineyards are gone.  I played 2 Contrabands and 2 Talismans.  My opponent knows that I'm building a Vineyards deck and will go for the remaining Swamps to three pile, so the Coppers and Swamps are proscribed.

Thanks for those, i knew there were cases i didn't think of. First question: I think the "gain instead" cuts the connection between the bought card and the gained one, so yeah, i think you should be able to gain a Swamp.
EDIT: This is much tougher than i thought... I still think you should be able to gain Swamp, but it's more like a feeling than anything. You gain the Silver because of Trader, not because of your buy... If it doesn't work out, i'll make it say "If you would gain a card costing 0$...". I don't like that as much, though, as it (sometimes) kills options like your second example.

Second question: Is your question aiming at the loose-track rule? I don't know for certain, but i think Swamp should not "loose track" of the card bought only because another card is gained inbetween. It is not moved somewhere different, is it? If we stick to Donalds principle of making cards as easy to understand as possible, i'd say you need to gain the card you originally bought. So: Buy any up-to-4 card, gain two Swamps instead of the duplicates from Talisman, and then gain the card you bought and that you may not Swamp.

4513

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 10:25:52 am »

its striktly better than all ruins so it should not be 0$

That doesn't matter. Copper is pretty much strictly better than Curse, yet they both cost $0.

That's what i thought.

its striktly better than all ruins so it should not be 0$

That doesn't matter. Copper is pretty much strictly better than Curse, yet they both cost $0.

But its also better than necropolis... does that matter?

I don't know... You cannot buy Necropolis, so i thought it shouldn't. I did try to make it not stricly better, though, which is why you are forced to discard a card.

It could also be  2$  ... 2 actions + 2buys if you need them isnīt to bad, look at squire there you get  only one of that.

its striktly better than all ruins so it should not be 0$

I like the idea of gainig it instead of a curse or a copper(with cache it may be nice) it will harm you deck as well if you have all 10 but not as much as a curse.

with the +2 Buys on Buy effect it can be simply piled out if it cost 0$ or the costs are reduced. play 1 bridge and discard 4 cards while buying this. maybe thats not intended.

I am aware of it. There was the idea to make it say "...or buy this for 1$...", or "...or buy this first in your buy phase...", but i think the fact you can swamp yourself with Swamps is... fitting? Still, in a Goons game i felt that 0$ was not enough, as it basically meant "You may swamp yourself. If you do: +1 VT, +1 Buy per card in your hand."

2$ is too expensive, as it harms the on-buy effect too much. I wanted people to have a reason for getting this even without Cursers or Looters. Also compare to Hamlet. Swamp is mostly a Hamlet that forces you to discard one card for an action and doesn't draw one for a buy, leaving you no choice and giving you a second, often useless buy.
EDIT: I'm aware Hamlet is a pretty good 2$ - still, i think Swamp is not as good as any specific 2$ and not strictly better than Poorhouse or Necropolis.

Why does it have that "if in the Supply" clause?  Simply stating that you gain the card means that you gain from the supply.  Is it so that can't continue avoiding Curses by opting to fail to gain Swamps?

Personally, I think it would be nice for Swamp to be an Action-Victory worth 0 VP.  Mostly for flavor reasons of being worthless land (at least in the eyes of short-sighted economically motivated humans), but also to let it interact with attacks like Bureaucrat, Fortune Teller, and Rabble.

It actually was a Curse once - people didn't like it. And yes, the clause is there so nobody can avoid gaining a Curse. I'm german, so i only know the (sometimes poorly translated) german instruction books - with regard to the english original rules maybe it's unneccessary.

4514

Variants and Fan Cards / Should Swamp be a 0$ or a 1$?

« on: February 26, 2013, 09:18:59 am »

So yeah, if you look at Swamp, what do you think? Is it a 1$ or a 0$? Also, if it is a 1$, does anybody see strange interactions? I checked Haggler, and that works. Also note that you can gain a Swamp instead of a Ruins, Copper or Curse.
What do you think of the card besides that?

4515

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Sylas' card ideas

« on: February 26, 2013, 09:00:22 am »

how about this? sounds a bit awkward but that might be alright:

SUPPLANT, $3, Action-Attack
+2 Actions

Each other player reveals 3 cards from his hand.
Choose one: he discards one card that you choose, draws a card, and puts the rest back; or he returns one card to the supply and gains a card with the same cost that you choose, putting it and the rest into his hand.


this way you might get to choose to do something to a card you might actually want to do something to.

Hmmm... Maybe this is better. +2 Actions are close to a Village, so the attack doesn't need to be that strong. So, Province is still quite save, but that's allright. It should be. Duchy is not - that's allright, i guess, too. If i reveal at least one Copper (likely), i will gain a Curse to my hand. I might gain up to three of them early game, but then i have Estates that i can reveal, too... I guess it's allright for it's price, if i didn't miss something important

4516

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Sylas' card ideas

« on: February 22, 2013, 08:19:00 pm »

SUPPLANT, $3, Action-Attack
+1 Action

Each other player reveals a card from his hand.
Choose one: he discards it and draws a card; or he returns it to the supply and gains a card with the same cost that you choose, putting it into his hand.

This is a bit like Swindler, but worse. If you want to keep this, make the bonus for the one playing it better. A second action, or two coins instead of the action, for example? After all revealing an Estate or Shelter (other than Necropolis) will either help me or not do anything, and as this card is pretty cheap it will mostly be considered as a starting buy - or not. Of course if you manage to make me discard Estates until my whole hand is Copper, it becomes a curser, but even then each play after that is useless - unless you let me discard the Curse next time and hope i draw a Copper again. Even then, my hand might still be better than what i started with. Of course this can turn 5$ to Duchies, but i have to reveal it for that. I have no choice with Smuggler. Especially Victory Cards in the end phase and Provinces in the endgame are basically free tickets to draw a new card. Even if you play two of them, you probably have no clue what i will reveal after that - an early game Chancellor, maybe?

TLDR: Swindler is way better.

4517

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card Idea: Committee

« on: February 21, 2013, 06:33:29 pm »

What cards ask you to name cards?  Off the top of my head, Wishing Well and Rebuild.  Never do you have to somehow identify a specific individual card -- the naming of the card applies to all instances.  When I name "Estates" after playing Rebuild, I skip all Estates.  It would be unreasonable for an opponent to stop me when I'm about to skip the second Estate, complaining "hey, you already skipped an Estate back there -- did you mean to name THAT Estate, or THIS one?"

I just looked up Rebuild, you're right. I guess the important part is that your opponent names "a" card, and not "one of the cards revealed". I read it like it was saying the latter, and so for me it meant a specific card. Maybe it's a bit more easy to get that if it's specified more, though - Rebuild and Wishing Well make pretty obvious which card the naming is about - the first X or the card on your deck. Committee starts with a handful of hands, and even though the second sentence doesn't say "one of them" you might read it like this. And then it's a short way to argue that you were talking about an instance.

4518

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Siege (action-attack-duration)

« on: February 21, 2013, 05:10:27 pm »

Yes, that was my point. It's clear to me that, according to the rules, Moat would block the text under the line, which causes potentially intolerable tracking problems. The interaction with Lighthouse is even more confusing.

Oops, mistook your post for someone complaining why it shouldn't work. You're right, of course.

This one gets even weirder because of the lower half. You can't "Moat" your own hand because the "Attack" was not played by "another player." If the card says "Attack" on the bottom, it triggers all sorts of weird things. The only real way to do it is make the "Duration" part NOT affect the other players.

What you can actually do, as i said earlier, is to give out Tokens, as Embargo does. Like:

Siege
+ 1$
Every player discards cards until he has 4 cards in hand.
Each player gains a Siege Token, putting it in front of him. Every time a player who has a Siege Token ends his cleanup phase, he discards down to 4 cards and removes all Siege Tokens he has.
---------------------------
At the beginning of your next turn:
+1$ Action - Attack - Duration

Actually Duration is not needed for the attack, and i know it's a bit different than your original card in edge cases (Council Room). But it's after the rules and works.
(Still giving out Tokens for one-time use is not really pretty, but it's as good as it gets.)

4519

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card Idea: Committee

« on: February 21, 2013, 04:57:07 pm »

You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards that is not the named card. Discard the revealed cards.

Does this mean:

Your opponent names a card, you pick one of the other cards, and gain a copy of it?

or

Your opponent names a card, you gain a copy of a differently named card?

I think you mean the second, but it can be read as the first. So if you reveal two Golds, you can gain a copy of the other one.

The idea is that, no matter how many Golds are revealed, you cannot gain Gold if your opponent names it. That was the idea behind your opponent naming a card, rather than choosing/discarding a revealed card. I'm going to stare at my wording for a while in order to try to wrap my head around the ambiguity you see. (I'm a bit under the weather, so I don't yet see it myself, but I strongly trust your judgment when it comes to rules minutiae, AJD.)

I think what you mean is: "You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards that is not a copy of the named card. Discard the revealed cards."

Another thought: In Colony games your opponents probably shouldn't play Rabble...

4520

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Siege (action-attack-duration)

« on: February 21, 2013, 01:56:00 pm »

Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

At the start of your next turn: +1 Card
------
While this is in play, each player (including you) draws no more than 4 cards during his Clean-up phase.

That has the same problems, doesn't it? Someone, during their next clean-up phase, will be like "Now, when you played that, did I Moat it?"

I guess that depends how reactions work with the card text under the line. We haven't had one that affects other players yet.

True! But Moat says "you are unaffected by that Attack", so it seems to me that anything written on the Attack card can be blocked by it.

That's not the problem, the problem is how to prove you blocked it. All attacks that exist have their effect when they are played, so no tracking issue. If my Grandfather (who, for this example, is supposed to be really bad at remembering things) plays a Witch, i counter it with Moat. He forgets it instantly and says: "Gain a curse, boy!" I simply reveal the Moat again, he mumbles, and draws his cards. Defense successful. This is not possible with Siege. If he forgot it, there's no way for me to prove i revealed Moat before. Of course, i wouldn't be affected. But that doesn't help, cause he can't remember. You have to think of my Grandpa when designing cards - he's an old man, you know...

4521

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion : Magic

« on: February 21, 2013, 11:37:11 am »

What's the problem with my phrasing? Your card was a permanent duration until a duplicate came up, so that's why I phrased it as I did. Always being out was the point, wasn't it?

The new version is a slightly weaker Treasury.   

Edit: maybe the problem with my phrasing was that it might not seem like it has a next-turn effect at all. Maybe instead of saying when to discard, say when not to.

Yes, that's right, it was supposed to be permanent. The thing for me was not you don't understand it - it's easier to understand than my wording.

The problem i had is something different. I looked it up at the Haven Wiki page, so yeah, your wording is absolutely as much working as mine. And i don't know for sure, but i believe that means both are not working.

The slight difference i believed in was that my version has an effect next turn in any case, while peolpe can consider your effect the premise of the card staying in play, so that's why i called it redundant. My wording has the effect "If this is in play... etc", so if it is NOT in play anymore, the effect is nothing, which - as far as i understood, is different from having no effect at all. Sadly, Haven doesn't stay out if no card is set aside. so i guess an empty effect here is the same as no effect, which makes my wording as redundant as yours.

Again the comparison to Treasury is what actually makes me want to kill it. I don't need to make a card that allready exists (Seer is something else, he works a lot different then Golem, usually - actually he goes back to before i even knew Golem). So thanks again. It's funny how high one thinks of his own creations and how much failure there still is to them. ^^

4522

Introductions / Re: Hi Guys

« on: February 21, 2013, 11:16:51 am »

Thank you guys
Hallo Qvist und danke dir.
And no, it's actually the name of a character i was working on for a project and i couldn't think of anything better. I always thought of looked up "Per aspera ad astram" when i made the name, where aspera means trouble... Aspertame never came to my mind, but it's a funny way to interpret it 

I'm sorry that I offended you; I literally took def's post seriously and proceeded to say "net" in place of "not yet". FWIW, I salute you (and all others who use English as a second language) for having a second language at all! I am currently learning Japanese, and cant even get through a conversation or read a billboard. Im impressed, sir!

Thank you Morgrim7, i was not that much offended
Still thanks, i apprea... aprecia... well, thank you, anyway
Btw i tried to learn japanese myself, some time ago - Hiragana and Katakana were allright, but i stopped at Kanji and forgot everything since...

4523

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Favourite Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.1

« on: February 21, 2013, 11:14:45 am »

I feel i am about to do something everybody will frown and shake their heads upon, but i just can't control myself...
I have to spell it out...
My favourite card is Chancellor!

4524

Introductions / Re: Hi Guys

« on: February 21, 2013, 07:05:54 am »

Well guys, i'm german and english is not my native language. But thanks for making fun of me

4525

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise

« on: February 21, 2013, 06:49:36 am »

Those are amazing *__*
I didn't think i could like a one-shot theme but these are fantastic. My only concern is that Boycot should not be able to remove itself from the supply... Also, where did you get the Artwork from?