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Messages - serakfalcon

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251
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Any "Spice Merchant" ideas??? :)
« on: January 20, 2013, 11:34:55 am »
Spice merchant is a great engine-y way to trash your coppers. Or to get a bit of a early game boost to 5 buying power in one turn. buying or gaining treasures to trash works at a counter purpose to the engine in the first place: it may work fine at first but it'll certainly fall apart once you've got green cards. It does work great as a way to chew up coppers gained from junkers like mountebank, or as damage control to make your deck more efficient after buying coppers with goons for the +VPs

252
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Level?
« on: January 20, 2013, 11:14:06 am »
Making sure to play with players ranked near you certainly seems to make a difference too. I jumped 10+ levels once I started playing +/- 10 only, instead of accepting whichever game came up.

253
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 20, 2013, 10:01:52 am »
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Grave Robber? Although, not on iso, obviously.
Can't gain prizes from grave robber, since they cost 0*

254
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 19, 2013, 02:48:33 am »
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Mint/Poor House also seems counterintuitive, but if there's another trasher on board it could work.
I think I'd only try that IF there were no other trashers on the board, and there was a village. Sure, mint would become a dead card, but if you have no treasures poor house is almost a cost 1 better than gold, so who cares

255
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 19, 2013, 02:42:30 am »
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I also keep thinking there's some way to make mint/beggar work, but I'll need to experiment. It'd have to be in huge games where someone's almost certain to play an attack.
My guess would be something like
3-4 players,
Mint/Beggar/Fishing Village/Ghost Ship/Watchtower/Knights, with no other trashers

Beggar protects you from Knights and gives you two silvers if someone ghost ships you (not to mention only having to return 1 card back to the deck after- as well it gives you a +3 boost that you can use to get to fives or gold, and trash the coppers later)
Mint can clear the coppers out, and mint golds once you get them, then use fishing village/watchtower or fishing village/ghost ship to make an engine, throwing in attacks or minting treasures as you have free actions

256
Dominion General Discussion / Re: DA lacking draw cards?
« on: January 18, 2013, 10:39:16 pm »
I guess I just came out of a procession/catacombs/altar/forge/squire game where the engine would literally trash half of itself, gain a ton more cards, draw them all, resulting in a 3 province 2 duchy megaturn. Probably could have done better but all the trashing and gaining was making my head hurt

257
Dominion General Discussion / Re: DA lacking draw cards?
« on: January 18, 2013, 10:23:47 pm »
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Yeah there's no denying that the draw cards in DA are super-strong; I just haven't been seeing them.

Well, just some math I guess, if there are ~10% draw cards in DA and you only pull DA the odds of getting no draw cards at all is 34%, (0.9^10 right), so thats only 1 in 3 games, and I guess you didn't include rebuild, if you're doing half and half its only ~20% of the time that you'll get no draw cards. So I guess thats fair, not every game can be an engine game, seems like you just got unlucky?

258
Dominion General Discussion / Re: DA lacking draw cards?
« on: January 18, 2013, 09:42:43 pm »
Yeah, not sure about this one, Hunting grounds, and Catacombs are powerful drawers, you can procession a catacombs and, bam, instant engine, rats gives +cards on trash, cultist has wacky ways of getting cards, there's madman...
I haven't really found getting an engine hard with DA, what I have found strange is the sheer size of the trash pile by the end of the game :P

259
Dominion General Discussion / Re: What is your favorite expansion?
« on: January 18, 2013, 05:46:39 am »
I love prosperity. At first, I was playing with a friend who had all the expansions available at the time (before Hinterlands, Cornucopia and DA), and then I bought the original, intrigue and seaside. I realized all too quickly that all my favorite cards were in Prosperity.
I got it as soon as I could :P
Hinterlands and Cornucopia have added a lot of fun cards too, and after playing with them on iso, I have come to enjoy them as well, but my most favorite cards still are mostly from Prosperity. Chances are, if I name a card I like, without thinking what set it comes from, about half will be from Prosperity. Maybe its just me.
I recently got Dark Ages, and that's been fun, but I don't feel familiar enough with the cards to say if its my favorite or not. There's a lot of really cool stuff going on in there, I definitely love playing with looters and spoil gaining cards, but I haven't figured them out well enough to have favorites yet.

260
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 17, 2013, 12:09:22 am »
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KC-Highway is not that great because Highway cost reduction doesn't stack with KC
Yeah, the real use of that card in the engine is to get more actions and cards. Ironworks Province FTW

261
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A thread to Share Scout kingdoms
« on: January 16, 2013, 11:34:29 pm »
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That doesn't actually work that well. All eight great halls are still only 8 points; a province player should have a province or two, and some duchies, by the time you make that happen.
Depends how fast you drain the GH/Ironworks, I feel like I've done it once, though looking through my records I don't think I've successfully done it without another enabler like islands or bridge.
If you ironworks agressively You should be able to do it in <13 turns, so hopefully you will have enough to overcome 1 province

262
Dominion General Discussion / Re: A thread to Share Scout kingdoms
« on: January 16, 2013, 11:17:40 pm »
I hate scout. But I imagine Scout, Ironworks Great hall,
Open Ironworks great hall, use ironworks to get as many great halls as you can, then pick up a scout, use the great halls to plow through your deck, pick up the remaining ironworks and a couple more scouts, end game ironworks/great hall/random 3rd pile, scouts or estates

263
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 16, 2013, 11:11:28 pm »
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Definitely one of the things I want to see - the combos so blatantly ridiculous that even after finding the magical kingdom that supports them the only reason you get to pull them off is because your opponent is laughing so hard at them.
KC, highway, bridge, ironworks engine
KC->KC-> 3x(Highway) -> 3x(Highway) -> KC -> 3x(Bridge) -> 3x(Highway) -> KC -> 3x(Ironworks) (iron works for province 3 times) -> 3x(Ironworks for province 3 times) -> (3x Bridge), play any remaining bridges, buy victory cards until you run out of buys
If you get another highway or bridge in there you could run out colonies.
I've never been able to get this to work but I've tried KC bridge and ironworks once, but it needs a lucky draw to work

264
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Ok, let's say you go for a strategy involving Tunnel and I don't.  You need 7 tunnels to overcome a 5-3 province split.  And most of the time if you get 7 tunnels, you won't get 3 provinces.  So then it becomes, how many tunnels can you get, while still getting 4 provinces.  And unless you have a really good way of discarding it (Ie. Embassy, Vault... that's about it. EDIT: And warehouse.) while still buying good cards, you will probably be slower to get to 4 provinces.  So the other guy, if he needs to can simply buy a duchy or two.

Yeah, Tunnel is really only worth it if you can use it to rapidly gain golds and win the province split. If you have a slow discarder you probably won't make it. Also, at 5/3 split you can still win if you're up by duchies, though its harder.
Tunnel/Hamlet/Smithy/Remodel => Profit!

265
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:07 pm »
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If you want to run a Poor House-centric deck, you'll want a faster trasher than Bishop.
I played that in a 4 person game, I suppose a chapel would be more efficient

266
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pet tricks you haven't tried yet
« on: January 15, 2013, 11:52:31 pm »
Procession, poor house, pawn, village, bishop, a +Cards card (say watchtower)
bishop trashes all your treasures and gives you some income, (bonus: your opponents trashing helps you get rid of those pesky treasures) every procession you play with a poor house is a province, then upgrade it to a pawn so you can get +1 treasure and +1 buy, reload with another poor house, if you run out of poor houses run a pawn through into a village, or into the +Cards card. If this bogs down your deck run a bishop through procession.

267
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: January 15, 2013, 11:32:59 pm »
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Why do you feel that being a card game makes this highly unlikely?

As a counterexample, I feel that the amount of people who play Solitaire on the computer greatly surpasses the amount of people who play it IRL.

But if Solitaire wasn't installed by default on everyone's computer, that would likely not be the case. You have to think about, how will people find out about this product, channels of distribution, and what will lead them to adopt it. Unless Goko is planning on doing some intense advertising, (which I highly doubt) in an already crowded market (there are so many online games out there its ridiculous, why should I pay to play Dominion online when I could, I dunno, play Kongregate for free, as an example?) I doubt that people will hear about the online version before hearing about the card game. Also, the card game has the jump on the website in that its been out for a while. Anyways, this is kind of off topic.

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Yes, but one could make the argument "Gimme a flat average shouldn't give me something where Prosperity is favored 250%!"  Maybe some studly programmer could write an AI that can take a morass of contradictory human desires and figure out what the human *really* wants, but I'm not that good.
Ah, but if the user asked for 5 cards from prosperity (or, 50% prosperity to put it another way), then the user does not want a flat average. Any user input specifying anything should be prioritized beyond anything else you are coding, unless the input is garbage.
(Theoretically, the UI should prevent garbage from being inputted in the first place, but if you have API calls, then it doesn't hurt to include handlers for garbage, so that johnny power user using the API can get still get a result, even if its not exactly what they expected but hey, if they are a power user they are used to getting problems like that and its their fault for over customizing, but joe normal user gets what they expect because they are prevented from getting anything else) I too, am a programmer lol.

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Again "5 Prosperity" isn't a "should." We just pick 5 from Prosperity and 5 not, it's not something we leave up to chance.
The Donald has spoken lol

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How do you run away with the game with Possession?  I'm pretty sure the general dislike of Possession has little to do with it being a run-away game-killer and more to do with it being a I-feel-like-you-stole-my-good-hand card.
Well, considering its the first game or second game (I introduce the game to a lot of people), the early intro of possession makes them think the game is complicated and mean. I actually love possession, here's a fun example of possession/hoard/KC, I just don't like taking the time to explain it to new people. Also, the one guy that figures out how good it is will dominate over the people that thought it was confusing and avoided it because it scares them and/or they thought it was mean.

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(1) The set of 10 cards should have 5 Prosperity.
(2) The set of 10 cards should be "fun".
(3) Each card that isn't already part of the 9 should have an equal chance of getting picked.
Logic should be: Pick 5 prosperity that are fun.
Pick 5 more cards that are fun, taking the 5 prosperity into consideration.
If it is not possible to find 5 more that are fun, pick randomly.
If it's always pulling up Margrave its flawed somehow.

Random should always be the default if the program doesn't know what to do, but if the user has specified anything they are, in a sense saying, "this is what I define to be fun". Another point, if people have limited sets, your generator may 'choke' and not use the full amount of cards they have available right?

I'm thinking though, if implemented maybe your generator should just be an option "Onigame's fun set" without letting people specify further. Maybe allow proportions from sets, I think that would be the number one thing people would want to specify if they specify anything.

(another note, I don't think its a good idea to allow generation of sets through an API call to Goko, that allows clever people to hack the sets by manipulating the call.) I think the issue is, you designed this to be "a" weighted "fun" random generator, something that people could try, for fun, if they wanted. It was implemented as "the" random generator, and now we're asking your generator to do things that it wasn't designed to do, but that "the" random generator should have, aka, being able to pull directly from sets in pre-specified amounts, weigh towards different strategies etc.

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I really like the concept of there being a randomizer that evaulates sets based on potential strategies and then tries to balance those strategies on the board.
If I can get some free time I may think about coding that. I code for enterprise solution stuff so my java is really rusty.
 





268
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: January 15, 2013, 12:01:38 pm »
Two quick comments:
Dominion, is first and foremost, a card game. It is highly unlikely that the amount of people that know how to play dominion and/or have purchased dominion online will ever surpass the amount of people who know it and/or play it regularly IRL. However, what you may see, is that people who may not own dominion, but play it with friends, or dominion fans, will add to their addiction by playing online as well. A good implementation will attract more casual gamers, but I think the internet is full with plenty of fun computer games that aren't pretending to be card games, so chances are people will find Goko Dominion because they are already know about Dominion, and more casual people will stick around then they do on iso, on account of it being easier to use. (and more possible for them to win, b/c of the bots)

I have a feeling that if someone is trying to specify 5 Prosperity cards, that they would be a little confused at only getting 1 or 2. Of course at that point, they are screwing with probability, chances are, they want to. In that case, rather than a flat average, it should be, a flat average given the constraints. So, there should be no particular prosperity card favored in the 5, and no particular non-prosperity card favored in the other 5. Tools need to be straightforward: Gimme 5 Prosperity shouldn't give me 2 prosperity!

As a note on new players:
I usually do like to introduce new players to the variety of Dominion right away, so that they can get an idea of what the game is all about. So, I do draw randomly from all the sets I have available, with three caveats:
1. I take out game killer cards, that are easy to run away with the game if you know what you're doing. This is mostly to prevent temptation to myself. For example, fool's gold, goons, (especially if there is a village), possession, tournament. For some reason people are pretty good at figuring out the value of KC or Throne Room, so I usually can leave those in.
2. I try to make it a little bit of a learning experience, so if I see that a certain type of winning strategy is more possible, I'll swap out cards to make it a little more obvious, and still possible to do if they buy things randomly.
I try to take them through four main 'flavors' of winning dominion: The engine game, the big money game, the greening game (aka special VPs, a la gardens, or bishop or duke etc.), and my special favorite, the hail mary three pile scramble (don't need special victory points, just end the game when you're ahead by buying out three piles, works especially well if everyone is trying to buy the same actions and there are lots of cursers out there).
3. I explain the importance of trashing and junking early on, and may even play a game with nothing but trashing and junking, just so that they can see why junking is bad if it happens to you, but not the end of the world if you manage it, and that trashing is powerful (even those hard-earned estates that you start with! Even if you could buy a silver instead! Nobody likes to see those go at first, for some reason). Also, I help them see that junkers, especially cursers, can be an easy ticket to a 3-pile hail mary.

Any randomizer trying to make the game more fun should probably take those into consideration, and each one separately (maybe there should be different randomizers for game flavors, or a slider?) For example, what makes an engine game can kill big money, greening could kill an engine but depending on the board the engine may be faster, engines or big money could lose to a well-timed three pile scramble, sometimes two or more strategies are possible on the same board but that usually makes the board a little weaker either way since the strategies are at odds with eachother.

 I don't think its fair to prioritize one way of winning the game over others. Engines usually get picked up at first because they are easy to understand, but once people realize there are other ways to win they enjoy trying them (one of my latest games with new people ended with a tie: one person had gone big money with fools gold, smithy and squire, and bought out almost all the fools gold, the other had gone engine with smithy, golem and festival after trashing everything they started with, got almost all their money from actions and by the end went through their deck every turn, naturally. All the people playing were impressed that such radically different strategies could have the same end result).

From what I can gather, your simulator doesn't keep these strategies distinct. They are very distinct, and pull the game in different ways. Maybe rather than try to enable all of them, keep them as separate 'flavors', that could be mixed, but not necessarily.



269
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Game disconnects me during a long turn.
« on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:09 am »
Happened to me yesterday. I was in the middle of a long turn playing a massive amount of actions, and my computer died. It only took 2 min to boot up (I was timing myself in panic!) so I figured I'd be ok, but I was booted by the time I got back...
I've also been booted because my browser locked up and didn't update the other player's turn, so I was waiting to boot them, then suddenly, I was resigned from the game

270
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Onigame I believe is going to go with, pick a card at random from your collection, if it's from Prosperity use Platinum/Colony, then pick a card at random from your collection, if it's from Dark Ages use Shelters. I am not sure if that will become the default on Goko or will only function with his uh thing. The idea here is to preserve the percentage of the time you see them while not requiring a Prosperity or Dark Ages card to be in the game in order to have them.

The only issue I see with that is, a game that has a high amount of prosperity cards is no more likely to see platinum/colony than a game that doesn't have any, but a lot of the prosperity cards more easily lead to the use of platinum/colony than, say, DA games.
(same thing applies for DA)

271
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Announcing Dominion Set Generator
« on: January 12, 2013, 10:20:36 am »
Yeah, poor Squire! I love squire, it is such a good card! Also KC, I don't see why its rated so bad either.
An easy way to deal with the generation vs. rating problem is simple:
Include the generation method used as information somewhere in the game, so people can read that before they join. It ideally shouldn't show exact cards, but rather how you generated the set. If you have it as a side button that expands or something, people can read that and decide for themselves if they want to join or not. After they join, they will be hit by the resign penalty if they don't like it.
If you don't make it obtrusive, novice players will ignore it (or be unaware that it exists), and skilled players can use it to get an idea if they want to play or not (letting them know beforehand what the biases are, so they can decide for themselves if they want to risk it or not). That's a more organic way, since, if you agree to play with certain preconditions, its your own fault if you lose. If you don't know enough about the game to care about the preconditions, it won't matter anyways. Everyone wins!

272
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That should double the chance of either one appearing.
Sort of. It doesn't dramatically affect the odds of only one appearing, but it dramatically increases the chances of both appearing.
Though it levels out as you increase in numbers, for example, the odds of a 5/5 Prosp/DA are exactly the same either method.

273
I usually setup based on randomizers, and I like biasing slightly towards colonies/platinums as well as shelters, so I just shuffle, let a member of the group pick one card (face down), mix the cards up again, and let them pick again, if either card is from Dark Ages or from Prosperity then I add Plat/Colony and shelters appropriately.
It's proportional, so it follows the rules as set in the rulebook, but also it gives a slightly higher chance of playing with those cards, also it avoids arguments like "I thought we'd pick for Prosperity first and then Dark Ages, not the other way around"

274
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Why aren't *you* playing on Goko?
« on: December 25, 2012, 12:53:43 pm »
I recently tried Goko out for a day after buying Dark Ages.
Was disappointed by how expensive everything is, especially only getting 3 cards (that weren't even from DA!) after shelling out for the expansion, but I'll put that aside and talk exclusively about gameplay.
For someone who owns all the expansions, I quickly got bored with campaign. I can see its usefulness for new players, but what really bugged me is how little variation there was in the cards at the beginning (not even the full base set!) half of what I love about dominion is the variation, so that kind of put me off.
I like some of the ideas, like the handicapping the computer or giving them an advantage by messing with the starting set. thats an interesting idea.

For multiplayer, the single greatest thing that killed it for me was the lack of an automatch, and especially the small sizes of the game rooms. This isn't the 90's people! I think that by itself was the deal breaker for me.

I don't mind the interface, it'd be nice to turn off the background, and  its awkward to see what people did previously (even the text information drowns out important info with periods and extra stuff you don't need to know, and it all being white on brown makes it hard to distinguish things) and the position of the VP count (for counters) is awkward as well.
Not having a points counter and not having veto mode or an equivalent is a downer, but not a deal-breaker for me.

Also, the "Your Deck" feature must have been designed by someone who hadn't played the game much, as almost no one I know specifically picks ten, rather they pick in sets (mix of prosperity and hinterlands or something) or specific cards (I want rats and chapel and 8 other randoms for fun) and let the rest random. This would be way better than a stupid pick 10 specific cards or full random as the only two choices. That is also a bit of a downer. At least you can *not* use it.

So yeah, I'm not convinced I should spend time on Goko at all as of yet, and especially not convinced I need to shell out $20-30 for it.


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