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26

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Google + Walled Village

« on: September 19, 2012, 02:24:57 am »

I'm so getting the feeling that by the time the Goko version actually comes out, we've all moved on to the next best thing.

And the people who will be playing are the ones who love cut-the-rope, angry birds and what not.

Hmm, so when will our Holodecks be ready?

27

Dominion Isotropic / Re: "Play faster newb"

« on: September 19, 2012, 02:18:15 am »

I dunno, I actually like to think when playing this strategy game, and the most important thinking happens before the first Buy.

I'm glad you made this thread, OP, because I preemptively rush through my first two turns simply in order to avoid my opponent becoming mad at me. I think most of us could use the reminder that this is a strategy game and that the first few buys are the most important ones in the game, so we should make those initial decisions carefully. I need to come up with a game plan before rushing into things instead of worrying so much about what my opponent thinks.

Yeah, and I think that if it's even a semi-complicated board, your opponent will probably want to think a little at the beginning as well and would not get annoyed at all. Theoretically, you'd only upset the people whose fingers can't stand to not be clicking every second or so or are trying to set a Dominion Games Per Hour record.

28

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Google + Walled Village

« on: September 19, 2012, 02:06:31 am »

In protest, we should all sign in with newly-created Google+ accounts and for our real names put down Guy Fawkes.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

29

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Google + Walled Village

« on: September 18, 2012, 07:17:43 pm »

Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.

Yeah, what was that old marketing adage? Something like: for every person that writes a letter of complaint, 100 more people are likely pissed off, too.

Of course an angry forum post is probably worth a lot less than an actual signed letter in a stamped envelope sent through the post, but ya take what ya can get, innit?

30

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 18, 2012, 05:13:04 pm »

Do we already have 13.0.0.0.0 maya-date?

I believe most scholarly research suggests that's actually last year.

Oh, is the popular date of 13.0.0.0.0 = December 21, 2012 wrong?

Hrm, my apologies; I had read somewhere that things had been miscalculated (i.e. everything should have been 2011), but I can't find that reference now.

Aww, too bad! I had been looking forward to presenting that to my superstitious coworker.

  : Oh my God, it's only 3 months away! What's going to happen?! Oh my Goooood!
  : Hmm, according to this, the real end date happened last year.
  : So what are we living in now? Oh. My. God.

31

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Google + Walled Village

« on: September 18, 2012, 04:55:35 pm »

It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.

Woah, hold up just a sec. Google has a say in how some random start-up boardgaming website implements a purchasing method for a random promo item in their store?

How bizarrely specific. Maybe we just discovered Larry & Sergei's favorite card!

32

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 18, 2012, 10:55:06 am »

Do we already have 13.0.0.0.0 maya-date?

I believe most scholarly research suggests that's actually last year.

Oh, is the popular date of 13.0.0.0.0 = December 21, 2012 wrong?

33

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 18, 2012, 12:47:10 am »

To make things easier for new Nostradamuses (Nostradami?) not to duplicate a previous prediction, here's a list so far:


September 29, 2012 - Tdog
October 1, 2012 - Insomniac
October 7, 2012 - jmieden [jmieden's birthday]
October 18, 2012 - Kirian [1st day of Essen]
October 19, 2012 - greatexpectations [2nd day of Essen]
October 20, 2012 - AdamH [3rd day of Essen]
November 20, 2012 - Jive Junkie [Tuesday before Thanksgiving]
December 9, 2012 - Robz888
December 25, 2012 - werothegreat [Christmas, also around the Mayan Apocalypse]
September 19, 2013 - Schneau [Schneau's birthday]
April 30, 2363 - Yuma [Encounter at Farpoint]
NEVER (announce date of fail not yet predicted) - jsh357

34

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 17, 2012, 03:11:11 pm »

never, they'll go under

You may not have intended it, but this is now a valid entry - please specify the date at which they announce their cancellation/going out of business. 

Are we talking about the next time it's released or the final time it's released?

The next time.

35

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 17, 2012, 02:59:09 pm »

stardate 41153.7

OK, so according to this yuma has officially voted Tuesday, April 30, 2363.

36

Goko Dominion Online / Re: The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 17, 2012, 02:51:42 pm »

Votes should be gathered secretly to avoid gaming the system.

Since the stakes aren't devastatingly high (although, love and adoration are pretty sweet), I'm OK with people gaming the system to some extent. However, point taken, I'll add a couple more rules that should make this a bit less abusable.

37

Goko Dominion Online / The Goko Dominion Release Prediction Contest!

« on: September 17, 2012, 02:39:09 pm »

Think you've got what it takes to be the game release Nostradamus? Then sally forth with a bold prediction as to when Goko Dominion will officially be (re)released to the public!

Rules:
- Only 1 vote per date. The first post with a particular date will be counted, others will not. Popular dates (such as those coinciding with certain game conventions) may get snapped up quickly, so act fast!
- The closest date will win, with ties going to the later date - for example, if it's released 9/20 and people guessed 9/19 and 9/21, 9/21 would win (yes, it's arbitrary, but you're strategy game players and can take that into account).
- Release is defined as when the game is officially released to the public for the second time (the first being in mid-August 2012), regardless of its condition or even if it needs to be taken down yet again. Note: a beta test is not the same thing as a release.
- Prediction must be posted at least 48 hours before any official release announcement is made, and at least 7 days before the actual release.
- You may not edit your prediction - posts that have been modified will not be counted (with the exception of this one )
- You may vote "never", but you must also supply a date at which the official cancellation (or going out of business) announcement is made. If "never" does take it, the closest date wins.

What will you win? Pride! A claim to fame! The love and adoration of hundreds! Or, maybe if you go bug theory, a custom title?

My prediction: November 20, 2012.

For latest list of entries, click here.

38

Dominion Isotropic / Re: "Play faster newb"

« on: September 16, 2012, 06:25:09 pm »

There is a line in here somewhere. Thinking a minute at the start of the game if it's a complicated board is fine. Regularly taking "a couple of minutes" in non-tournament games would cause me to go mental, that's for sure.

Oh I definitely agree. Besides the beginning, I'll almost never take more than 10-15 seconds for a move. There are rare exceptions (like crazy King's Court combo decks with a variety of actions in hand), but usually the opponent's taking a while on his turns too.

It's the people who can't stand a one-time 30-60 second wait at the beginning of the game that really mystify me. The most fun part of the game (for me, anyway) is analyzing a board and trying to figure out what to do.

I'm sure that I won't reach my target audience with this comment, but here's trying:

If you want to play against faster players, set your preferences to a tighter window (if possible, one that doesn't include levels 1-15).  Also, don't reject everyone you come across that's ranked higher than you and still expect everyone to play fast.

I think getting repeatedly-rejected by a player named "fast players only please" when I accepted -without looking at the board- as fast as humanly possible struck a nerve.

It's funny that you say that, because I've noticed that most of the people that get mad at me for taking time at the beginning of the game are lower-ranked players (0-15). It is then pretty ironic when they call someone 15 levels higher than them a newb. If anything, if you want a faster game, I think playing lower ranks is a better bet. Higher ranks (or at least mid-level ones like 20-30) often think more.

39

Dominion Isotropic / "Play faster newb"

« on: September 16, 2012, 02:05:38 pm »

So I've been told some variant of the title a few times in the last month or so. It happens at the beginning of the game, because I sometimes like to take about a minute to examine the board and plan what to do. I'll usually say a greeting and play out my money to let my opponent know that I'm there, and then that's when I pause.

Is this really considered bad form? Once the initial thinking phase is over, I play pretty briskly. A couple of times I've explained that I'm just thinking, and it's been met with hostility: "I don't have time for this GO" or "OMG HURRY UP NEWB". One person has even left the game within the first minute.

I dunno, I actually like to think when playing this strategy game, and the most important thinking happens before the first Buy. What's the point if you're forced to treat it like a twitch RTS à la Warcraft 2?

But I'm open to feedback if you think I'm the one being rude.

40

Dominion Isotropic / Re: There's no excuse for...

« on: September 16, 2012, 01:53:27 pm »

B.  The last two times it's happened (in the past 24 hours, both with higher ranked players), it's been right after a big turn of mine that basically rendered the game unwinnable for the other person.  So, I highly doubt it's internet connectivity issues in these instances, given the timing. But, of course, that's always a possibility.

Yeah, this has happened to me several times with L20+ players as well. Double-buying Colonies (to bring you to 5), and then coincidentally them not responding for 3 minutes is not much of a coincidence. And funnily enough, I've never had anyone do this when they're winning big. So some people are immature when it comes to their games, but unfortunately they're probably too busy calling others lucksack n00bs to be reading this thread.

BTW julie, well played the other day (you probably don't remember, but it was a tight slog with Witches, IGG, Expand, and Cutpurse I think).

41

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Isotropic Avatars

« on: September 14, 2012, 06:08:22 pm »

Just saw this thread - Tactician it is! Besides being a cool picture, it's a good fit because I'm totally about sacrificing a little now to reap big rewards later.

42

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Zaps

« on: September 14, 2012, 02:16:55 pm »

IMO, the real problem with adventure mode is that it resembles RTS campaigns circa early '90s. (Actually, worse than that, because those had more variety.) By now, RTS designers have figured out that "you have crappy stuff, enemy has good stuff, enemy is dumb, go win" is boring. In a campaign for a modern RTS such as Starcraft 2, there are extremely few missions that follow that pattern.

I haven't played Starcraft 2, so I'm curious - how does it break from the mold?

I imagine Dominion could make things interesting in a campaign mode by presenting things more like a puzzle - the AI has an advantage, but some wacky combo on board will let you crush it.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What do you keep track of while playing?

« on: September 14, 2012, 01:36:38 am »

I want to get to the point where I can remember all this stuff, but for now, it is a bit overwhelming. Although, playing on Goko has helped me get better at thsi stuff. It would be nice if I could remember all those things. It is something I need to work on.

Yeah, I don't make a concerted effort to remember too much stuff because I think it makes the game a little less fun. But I'm curious if the higher-level players keep track of a lot of stuff, and how necessary it is to get to the next level.

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: What do you keep track of while playing?

« on: September 13, 2012, 07:37:31 pm »

Nice list.
The main thing I would add, is all of the same points but for your opponents deck.
Also total + buys / gains in each deck if 3 pile ending is possible.

Thanks Rabid, edited in!

45

Dominion General Discussion / What do you keep track of while playing?

« on: September 13, 2012, 07:08:53 pm »

I often feel while playing that I'm a bit too surprised by things that I should already know. This sometimes causes me to lose games, or at least makes me feel sheepish when I win. Some things that can be advantageous to keep track of, for both yours and your opponent's deck:

Victory Points: I feel that most people try to keep track of this to some degree. I usually do just fine with this, except when alt VPs are on the board. I'll still try to maintain a differential in my head, but when variable cards like Gardens come into play, fuggedaboutit. Even though Isotropic makes it easy, I will also often lose track when VP chips enter the mix.

Terminal Actions: In games with no Villages, I am keenly aware of how many terminals I have. However, when there are Villages, I often lose track of my Village / Terminal ratio, relying on "feel" to get the balance right. I'm sure I get that balance wrong, and I bet if I did keep better track, I'd be able to home in on a proper ratio for different types of games.

Key Cards Balance (opponent vs. you): I'll always keep track of the Minion balance, as well as cursers, Fool's Gold, Governor (how much danger am I in for a Remodeling megaturn?), Platinum (will I win a straight-up Colony buying race?) and a few other cards I deem important.

Total Money In Deck: All right, I'm drawing my whole deck every turn now, but wait... I only have $15 total in it? I guess it only matters in heavy engine games, but I never remember to keep track until I do actually draw my whole deck and am pleasantly surprised or a bit disappointed.

Junk Cards Left In Deck: This applies to games with trashers, and at some point you're able to trash the trasher(s). OK, I guess I'll Bishop the Chapel now - and then my next hand shows me the remaining trash: an Estate and 3 Coppers. I reckon this is not a big deal, since when you're considering trashing a trasher, it's probably done most of the relevant work anyway. But I wonder how many of y'all do keep track.

Cards Played This Shuffle: I'm thinking this can be important with respect to playing Chancellor, buying Inn, etc. Also for Governor/Council Room, if you're deep into your deck and haven't seen your one Militia yet, you could be more likely to play it for +3/4 cards thinking you have a better chance of negating the benefit you give to your opponent. But I rarely have any sense of cards played post-shuffle, but I bet some of you do!

Total Buys/Gains (opponent & you): edited in, courtesy of Rabid. A good thing to keep track of to see if a 3-pile ending is possible, or maybe gauge the likelihood of piledriving something like Silk Road. Also may be useful to estimate what your (or their) Gardens will be worth by the end of the game. I tend to keep track of my own +Buys, but rarely my opponent's...

Overall Deck Composition: I think we all have a rough gauge of this, especially when it comes to key actions, but I'm pretty terrible at keeping track of treasure and specific action counts. This makes it so I never know how big my deck is for Gardens, or how many actions I have for Vineyard. And when making decisions as to buying/playing something like Scrying Pool, having a good approximation of deck composition is probably key.


As you can see, I'm pretty haphazard when it comes to mental bookkeeping. I'm curious to see what y'all keep track of - I also wonder how much it correlates with greater success in the game (as for me, I'm currently level 25 on Iso).

46

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Am I in the correct place?

« on: September 13, 2012, 05:38:13 pm »

I think the issue for a lot of testers now is we've given then a ton of feedback and bugs and whatnot. And I think they're getting to a lot of these issues, but rather slowly. So until all the current issues get fixed, well there's little incentive to play and find more things to report.

Makes sense, thanks for the update. I guess that means we get to keep Isotropic around for a while yet

47

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Am I in the correct place?

« on: September 13, 2012, 05:18:30 pm »

I do a little bit of beta testing each day, and than I play on iso.

That's... not an encouraging sign.

If the rooms are really so devoid of people, shouldn't they open up the testing to more people? I still haven't heard back from them.

48

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A super random question

« on: September 12, 2012, 11:18:42 pm »

Well, you need to define how they would play then.  You say they know the basics, but knowing the basics suggests they have >0 Strategy.  I mean, are the novices bright enough to realize that they have to get a money card at some point or else they will never have more than $7?  Will they load up on Scouts?

Your "novice simulator" is very fuzzy on how to rank cards by shininess.  The described player also has >0 Strategic knowledge, since it recognizes Village+Smithy as a combo.

Do you intend the Novice players in the OP to be relatively random?  It's tougher to answer the question then, since the player who randomly buys the better cards will end up with better chances to buy the better helper!

Pure BM may be better than most novices, but it is a simple, low level baseline.

Heh, you took that a little more seriously than I thought anyone would. But yes, to answer your general question, I think Novices are pretty random. I know I was, and I know that most new players I sit down with are pretty random. And while pure BM may be a lot simpler to talk about and model, it is about the antithesis of what actual new players do. They want to have fun and buy cool stuff that do cool things (ooh shiny!). Common threads for newbies seems to be overbuying actions (terminal or not), and trying to get their money's worth with every buy. Also, latching on to the first combo they "discover".

Nobody is drawn to Dominion with the prospect of Big Money.

49

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A super random question

« on: September 12, 2012, 09:22:27 pm »

the difference between L20 and 45 is most certainly not sufficient enough to overcome a huge head start with a fairly simple kingdom.

Just use some zaps!



For this thought experiment, it might be helpful to assume that the novices are playing pure BM until they buy their helper.

The problem is, of course, that pure BM is often much, much better than what a true novice would end up doing. Beginners often love actions, and the concept of terminal clashing probably sounds like a new sci-fi movie title to them. I remember games buying 10+ terminals with no villages on board. Drawing hands of Moneylender, Moat, Remodel, Mine, and Baron. Sometimes the actions in the kingdom support pure action engines, but beginners will often find a way to bugger that up, too. For example:

A novice simulator

Examining the board: Take 3-5 random kingdom cards, and rank them in terms of "shininess": A>B>C>D. Higher cost shiny cards are always shinier than lower cost ones. Villages and other +Action +Card cards automatically get double shininess points (i.e. at least twice the chance of making the ranked shiny cards). Big effects like Possession and Expand get triple shininess points. Sick combos (like Village-Smithy) get special bonus shiny points. Cards with a lot of text and/or dealing with trashing get half shininess points. Obviously trashing is useful when you have curses, but otherwise all cards help you, you know!

1) When possible, buy shiny card A. If not enough coin, buy B, C, and so forth.
2) If there's no shiny card at $3, buy Silver with $3. Can't waste money, after all.
3) If you get $6, flip a coin. Heads, buy shiny card A. Tails, buy a Gold. Gold is good, and somewhat shiny.
4) If you get $2 and there are no shiny cards at $2, buy any random $2 Kingdom card. If there's no kingdom card to buy, buy an Estate. It's only one VP, but it could be the difference!
5) If you get $1 or less, flip a coin. Heads, buy Copper. Tails, look at the kingdom, scratch your head, and pass, forgetting that Copper costs $0.
6) If you have "too much" (this is defined as having some random arbitrary amount) of shiny card A, buy shiny card B instead even if you have enough coin for A. Same logic applies to B if you have "too much" of it. Gotta have balance, after all.
7) If you get $8+ and have a single Buy, buy a Province. Even newbies know that much.
8 ) If you get $8+ and have multiple Buys, flip a coin. Heads, buy a Province. Tails, spread the love between shiny cards A & B, if possible.
9) If your opponent has started buying Duchies, buy a Duchy with exactly $5. Still buy Gold or shiny card A/B/C with $6 or $7.
10) When your opponent ends the game with Provinces or piles, be surprised and tell them that you just needed "one more turn".

I remember a little too well.

50

Dominion General Discussion / Re: A super random question

« on: September 12, 2012, 08:25:53 pm »

On a Colony board with a really nice engine set-up, there's a chance that the Level 45 fella at $8 could work. That's assuming the novice will be able to get to $8 before too many turns have passed, hopefully at least buying money or action money to make it possible. For instance, if the novice has a tendency to buy nothing but Village and Smithy (thereby not even having more than $7 in the deck!), then obviously you have to go for the Level 10 or 20.

The thing that makes me hesitate to recommend the L45 is that even with some money buys, I don't know how messed up the deck would be by the first $8, even in a Colony game. If the board favors an engine that needs early trashing, starting the process after 6-10 turns of novice buys would likely prove disastrous, unless the novice were already predisposed to buying engine pieces (or at least cantrips). All those extra junk buys (esp. if they're semi-useless terminals) would function as pseudo-curses for the L45, and probably too big a hole to recover from.

I suppose I'm concluding that the L20 at $5 makes the most sense even in tricky engine set-ups. In Big Money Plus style boards, it's a no-brainer to pick the L10 or 20, as the difference between L20 and 45 is most certainly not sufficient enough to overcome a huge head start with a fairly simple kingdom.