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26

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 07, 2022, 01:18:40 pm »

I'm ok with locking in FORCE then, unless we want to let swowl with in.

Why STAFF?

Yes, let’s see if Swowl can get a chance to jump in. The last time he was logged in was before Eevee’s latest clue.

STAFF primarily because of this analysis.

Guys, I’m off REINDEER at this point. My theory is that Mounties was to clue a police force specific to a location, and also I don’t think Reindeer have much to do with Canada. I could see myself using Rangers to clue Texas/Cowboy/Force but not Rattlesnake/Cactus. In other words my gut is saying Eevee could be going for things symbolic of the region and not necessarily random things that live there. My 4 or MAPLE, FORCE, STAFF, IGLOO.

But with THIEF replacing IGLOO. Our wrong guesses further support my theory. STAFF is not red because of Disabled: 1. In fact the last red word has to be REINDEER; fang has been hoping we’d guess it I’m sure

27

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 06, 2022, 08:34:40 pm »

Yep. FORCE then STAFF. Pilfering, Cleanup, and Veal are completed, in my opinion.

28

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 06, 2022, 03:34:31 pm »

COW

29

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 06, 2022, 01:27:41 pm »

Next blue team who sees this, go ahead and guess BABY (or FORCE) to get some positive momentum while we discuss the rest of the turn.

30

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 06, 2022, 01:20:44 pm »

Honeymoon? Congrats, bro!!

Well, we have a BABY COW here. Not sure about a 3rd, although we needed a clue of at least 3 (or 0/unlimited) to win here, so there might not actually be a third. I’m turned off of REINDEER and ROOF, because of Pawing.

There has to be a crossover. BABY can fit Cleanup, but not sure about COW. If we can figure which previous clue COW fits under, we could narrow down the remainder. (There is a chance that Eevee meant Venison, but maybe I’m the only one that mixes those two words up .) The only way I can think of that we still have a leftover word (COW, not previously clued) at this point is if BABY was part of Pilfering (I could see that), and THIEF was indeed part of two clues already. —leaving MESS as the only new word hinted with Cleanup. Right?? Am I making any sense lol?

31

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Summary of all errata

« on: July 03, 2022, 06:11:51 pm »

I hope the following will be helpful.

Dominion isn't the kind of game that gets/needs errata for balance and/or mistakes/broken things. (Except on rare occasions such as the rewrite of Masquerade, and even that was pretty minor and probably will never play any differently for you.) This is the reason why you won’t find anything resembling an Errata/FAQ on the publisher’s site. So unfortunately a single, easy-to-reference list of all errata might not ever exist.

• Usually the best source for current rulings will be the wiki (and the page for whatever card in question), linked near the top of every page in this forum.
  
• Link to Jeebus’s thread, and a very comprehensive document of everything Dominion, including up to date (as much as possible) rules and errata. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15347.0 which may have a section that covers the history of some errata, idk
  
• Link to some significant changes from 2019-2021. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19893.0
  
• 2022 and all the new Second Editions represent another significant amount of change/errata. Not all of it is completely set in stone yet, and thus the wiki won’t reflect everything just yet. Here are some threads to reference though.
  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21309.0
  http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21326.0
  And all the 2E threads stickied in this board: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=14.0
  

For the most part, you can continue playing with the cards and rules as written and be just fine. Especially given how much simpler that is than the alternative. Ultimately, that’s up to you, of course.

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread

« on: July 02, 2022, 11:58:19 pm »

Hey, did you hear about Farmland and Trail?
So I decided to grow crops on the old road behind my property, and wouldn’t you know it—as soon as we started tilling the soil, my remaining servants decided to blaze a new path across the other side of my land and inexplicably found gold in the stream running nearby! What a whacky time that was.

33

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies

« on: July 02, 2022, 11:23:05 pm »

Haha imagine these two in the same kingdom—Skirmisher + Berserker, lulz. I think they might actually be the same dude, when he’s both on and off duty, or perhaps before and after unemployment Oh! Maybe that’s why they can’t trigger each other’s attack Yep, that’s now my head-canon.

34

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 02, 2022, 12:55:01 pm »

If I'm not mistaken, luckily no current cards care about card ownership, except at the end of the game of course.

Market Square cares about card ownership. That said, I don't think there are any ways to trash cards that are in a state of ambiguous ownership.

I wonder why Market Square didn’t just say “when you trash a card”? Maybe Lurker, Gladiator, and/or Salt the Earth were in the design pool at the time. Even so, it wouldn’t be too crazy; you would still have to have the MS in your hand, and only one gold gain per reaction.

35

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.

« on: July 01, 2022, 04:51:06 pm »

Is that something that tends to trip up newbies, in your experience?  Have you ever considered trying to address it? I mean, outside the coffers change.

For sure it's bad that the buy phase is really two phases. Either it should be clearly two phases - the easy fix to keeping all the cards mostly as-is - or it should be that you can keep playing treasures after buying cards - which breaks various things but would have worked great if done at the start.

Could you (or someone else) clarify what would "break" if you could play treasures after buying cards? With Merchant Guild errata'ed, I can't think of any card which would be broken when allowing this...

I don’t know for sure what would “break” either. But it would be a significant change to how the buy phase works. The most obvious case is where you draw any cards after you’ve started buying: Sheepdog’s and Trail’s reactions come to mind.

36

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: July 01, 2022, 03:28:38 pm »

hahahah my lord sorry man!

Not your fault, man! I started alpha-gaming this round (might as well, if the team is AWOL ) and am reaping what I’ve sowed I suggested Igloo from the beginning, and even then it wasn’t sitting right and I had to think it over a lot.
I’m sure Eevee had IGLOO, being a bystander, as a calculated risk. It happens. It will be fun to know what’s been going through their head during all our bumbling.

37

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 01, 2022, 03:14:19 pm »

(You know you don’t have to gain all 3 Actions after playing the Cauldron, right?)

really? Because I played it in a game with mockingbird and it wasn't handing out curses.  Or maybe I'm wrong.  That does make it a lot better then.

Well that’s what happens when the third Action you gained was before you even played the Cauldrons, ya goof.

38

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 01, 2022, 03:09:38 pm »

Interesting. I’m going to use the word “acquire” to denote a card becoming your card (i.e. it is included in your deck at end of game, unless at some point it is “unacquired”).

Ways to acquire a card:
* Anytime you gain a card, in any way and for any reason.
* A card is passed or put into your hand (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: Masquerade, Fortress
* Anytime you Exile a card (assuming it wasn’t already yours).
* Anytime you set aside a card (assuming it wasn’t already your card). Precedent: Inheritance …
     * (unless the original instruction later moves the card somewhere else you don’t control(?), e.g. the Supply) Precedent: none?
* Anytime you play a card (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: Trail
—hypotheticals—
* A card is put or passed into a zone you control, e.g. deck, play area, Tavern mat (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: none, other than the scenarios already covered

That was fun. Did I miss any? I thought I could come up with more hypotheticals, but alas I am tired this week.

And I’ll leave it someone else for the unacquire list.

I wish I had thought to use “acquire” instead of “get” when I wrote this thread 7 years ago: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13116.0

I think Trail / playing a card is the only thing to add to my list since last time I edited it.

You missed Exchange. And actually we both missed buying a card. A card you buy becomes yours before you gain it, although with the new errata removing all on-buy triggers, I don’t think this distinction would ever matter.

That thread was a funny read! Ack I missed exchange, dang; I might make some edits later.
I wasn’t including cases where a card was technically unacquired, but naturally becomes yours again by the time all effects have resolved (Possession).
The buy thing is interesting, since by definition you gain the card anyway unless instructed otherwise. Does that mean a Possessed player technically owned a bought card before the Possessor did? Also, have there been any cases where 1. You buy a card. 2. It is interrupted by some trigger, and never subsequently gained. 3. It is still acquired by end of the turn. 4. And none of the other methods we listed above occurred (which would cause it to be acquired regardless)? If not, then I’m not as concerned

Your point regarding Play also isn't fully accurate. You should say "unless instructed to leave it somewhere". And actually, entering a zone you control covers everything.

I see what you mean with your first sentence. But, I mean, you can choose to add a sentence similar to that as an addendum to any process, or you can leave it out, assume it’s implied, and save yourself some time. (says the guy who put the same assumption on almost every line) But I might edit it in, thank you.
For your second sentence, sure, that’s another definition of what we’re talking about. But just stating it is a bit circular; that doesn’t give us the fun list.

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 01, 2022, 01:55:38 pm »

Donald X announced the fall expansion in the Seaside 2E secret history. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21231.0

I usually have a section going on about outtakes. Seaside 2E though was worked on at the same time as both Allies and the fall expansion (fall expansion?). Ideas went back and forth (Sentinel at one point was going to replace Lookout).  So most of these outtakes aren't really looking to be talked about yet.

And it’s been confirmed by other Dominion “cadre” since then, with I believe a predicted October timeframe.

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: July 01, 2022, 01:49:04 am »

Interesting. I’m going to use the word “acquire” to denote a card becoming your card (i.e. it is included in your deck at end of game, unless at some point it is “unacquired”).

Ways to acquire a card:
* Anytime you gain a card, in any way and for any reason.
* A card is passed or put into your hand (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: Masquerade, Fortress
* Anytime you Exile a card (assuming it wasn’t already yours).
* Anytime you set aside a card (assuming it wasn’t already your card). Precedent: Inheritance …
     * (unless the original instruction later moves the card somewhere else you don’t control(?), e.g. the Supply) Precedent: none?
* Anytime you play a card (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: Trail
—hypotheticals—
* A card is put or passed into a zone you control, e.g. deck, play area, Tavern mat (assuming it wasn’t already yours). Precedent: none, other than the scenarios already covered

That was fun. Did I miss any? I thought I could come up with more hypotheticals, but alas I am tired this week.

And I’ll leave it someone else for the unacquire list.

I think you missed several, but I'm not in front of my computer. We already went through this in another thread. The definition of your cards is the cards in your zones, has been like that for a while. Your hand, your deck, your discard pile, your play area, your set-aside area (including mats).

Thanks, Nick. I was under no illusion that that was the technical definition of what cards are yours, hence the “i.e.”
I look forward to seeing what I didn’t cover for all ways that a card can change from being !yours to yours.

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:25:16 pm »

After playing for a while I am here to report that Cauldron actually sucks.  By the time you are ready to gain three actions, you might as well just buy a province.  Usually buying enough 2s and 3s to activate it means your engine is a lot weaker.  Truth be told it would be a great card if it were the second action and not the third action.

It's a 5 cost woodcutter that in very limited situations can give out a curse?  Gross

even donald x says so in the explanation

Cauldron isn't tied to gaining Cauldrons, so it doesn't empty its own pile, just the Curses, and it's not even great at emptying those. But it's a Silver with a +Buy so it doesn't have to always Curse them. And it ties into the when-gain theme, being better with cards like Border Village.

The other 2 are great though.

Donald X is very unlikely to ever design an alt-Silver for less than $5, for reasons that have been thoroughly cemented while play testing such cards over the years. (He regrets making Stockpile.) Getting your +Buys from Treasures is extremely efficient, and usually worth the cost increase (or whatever other downside is attached).

Buying a bunch of 2s and 3s just to trigger the attack sounds awful. A Cauldron in an engine with a gainer/remodeler should do much better, especially once you are hitting a total payload of $8 and higher. (You know you don’t have to gain all 3 Actions after playing the Cauldron, right?) This synergy is especially nice with good terminal gainers/remodelers, since the Cauldron don’t care. And a shoutout to the Horse gaining cards.

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 30, 2022, 09:05:52 pm »

Interesting. I’m going to use the word “acquire” to denote a card becoming your card (i.e. it is included in your deck at end of game, unless at some point it is “unacquired”).

Ways to acquire a card (edit: assuming the card wasn’t already yours):
* Anytime you gain a card, in any way and for any reason.
* A card is passed or put into your hand. Precedent: Masquerade, Fortress
* Anytime you Exile a card.
* Anytime you set aside a card. Precedent: Inheritance …
     * (unless the original instruction later moves the card somewhere else you don’t control(?), e.g. the Supply) Precedent: none?
* Anytime you play a card edit: in your play area. Precedent: Trail
* (edit) Anytime you take a card in exchange for another.
—hypotheticals—
* A card is put or passed into a zone you control, e.g. deck, play area, Tavern mat. Precedent: none, other than the scenarios already covered

That was fun. Did I miss any? I thought I could come up with more hypotheticals, but alas I am tired this week.

And I’ll leave it someone else for the unacquire list.

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread

« on: June 30, 2022, 03:55:01 pm »

was playing someone in a villa/chameleon deck and they bought a province with 10 coins, then almost immediately requested an undo.  I thought maybe they decided that they didn't want to green yet and get  a villa and a 6.

They then proceeded to villa and chameleon to a mega draw hand.

I still whipped em, but they got the ban hammer.  Some people.

Yeah that sounds annoying. But I get that they changed their mind, and sounds like it was still their turn when they did the undo. I probably wouldn’t block them myself, unless it seemed like a deliberate troll/BM play. (or more to the story than you communicated here)

  Nope.  It was my turn, they had already drawn and seen their hand, which is what was so egregious.  They saw that their next hand led to a 2 provy possible mega turn and just decided to do that last hand instead by chameleoning the villa instead of playing it for coins.!  Why didn't I think of that?  It's brilliant! 

Gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. The way you said it painted a different picture, since in a Villa game “almost immediately requested an undo” would imply they hadn’t hit the “end buys” button and checked out their new hand, which is a more more deliberate move.

44

Dominion General Discussion / Re: 2022 Additional Errata

« on: June 30, 2022, 01:44:02 pm »

Have Renaissance and Guilds been reprinted yet with the Merchant Guild, Patron and Coffers errata from earlier this year? I'm wondering if there's a printed version of these two sets with only those changes and without the newly changed Exploration, Innovation and overpay.

No, the first thing to get reprinted with the recent errata (not counting the 2E's) is Adventures. I don't know if it actually has been printed or not, but the files went to the printer months ago. Those other sets, the files have not gone to the printer.

Based on a reply you gave to another forum member today, you’re still looking at feedback on cards not sent to the printer yet? There are a couple of cards that are regrettably losing some unique qualities, but I’m withholding any further thoughts for now as I’m eagerly awaiting your 2022 errata “secret history”.

Related: Any chance of adding a couple more cards for wording reprints? For example, you have already given your blessing for people playing Priest + Sewers, or Elder + Barge the cooler way. The cards matching the intent would be pretty sweet. (If I’ve misspoken or misinterpreted your words, let me know.)

45

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:37:06 am »

Bwahaha I’m dead. All the mental energy…! Kaput. If I can’t laugh, I’d be crying. I should have listened to that nagging feeling about the IGLOO

46

Rules Questions / Re: Treasury and Cavalry

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:23:56 am »

One Japanese player told me.

play 5 Treasuries
buy and gain a Cavalry
topdeck those Treasuries
play them again
play Cavalry as Horse

infinite coins

Is it a correct behavior?

Would work better with Villa, but yes, that does seem to be valid. And while this particular combo wouldn't come up very often, Villa/Cavalry + Treasury with any kind of draw in your hand would allow you to play your Treasuries multiple times

Which makes me wonder why Treasury was changed from "at the end of your turn" to "at the end of your buy phase"

I assume the described method is with an empty deck, so that you draw the Cavalry, and Way of the Horse is also implied. I couldn’t figure an easy way to do infinite coin with Villa substituting for Cavalry. You need the Buys, which you won’t get if you WotH, and otherwise you need a way to not empty the Villa pile. There are of course ways to do it with Villa, but I’m dubious about your claim of it “working better” than the Cavalry+WotH method.

47

Rules Questions / Re: Treasury and Cavalry

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:11:33 am »

Damn, Seaside 2E be cwazy. Put Seaway or Peasant in the kingdom, slap a +Buy token on Cavalry (or Treasury), and buy the whole supply. Yeet!

48

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 30, 2022, 09:54:42 am »

First impressions, haven’t played any preview cards yet:

Berserker looks so cool. Another straight gainer Attack like Vampire, yay! The main reason I love Mercenary and Catapult is that they are so unique as the only straight trasher Attacks. And the Knights, of course (Anna and Natalie). (Donald, pleeease don’t remove Mercenary, like you hinted in your past “what-if” Dark Ages 2E musings.)
Haha I just imagined these two in the same kingdom—Skirmisher + Berserker, lulz. I think they might actually be the same dude, when he’s both on and off duty, or perhaps before and after unemployment Oh! Maybe that’s why they can’t trigger each other’s attack Yep, that’s now my head-canon.

Cauldron looks solid. Nice to pick up for just the convenient +Buy, at a minimum. And the Curse is a cool extra while engine building. Also, it has good synergy with terminal gainers/remodelers.

Trail- first thought was “why does this cost 4?”, but I have to assume it was tested at cheaper prices and had some cwazy explosions at 2 and even 3 coin. Someone was saying it’s superior to Fortress. I recently played a Broker+Fortress engine (with Upgrade and some help from Fishing Village). It was nice to keep trashing (TfB) the same Fortress (and play them when you draw multiples) to both build and draw the deck. If I had Trail instead, I think the main difference is I would need a couple more copies of Trail for the consistency and I wouldn’t be able to spam the Upgrades as much, on the other hand I could easily skip the Fishing Villages. If it was an Apprentice engine instead, Fortress is probably favored over Trail.
Thematically, it feels like Trail and Tide Pools would be good names for Victory cards. Hey, did you hear about Farmland and Trail? So I decided to grow crops on the old road behind my property, and wouldn’t you know it—as soon as we started tilling the soil, my remaining servants decided to blaze a new path across the other side of my land and inexplicably found gold in the stream running nearby! What a whacky time that was.

I’m glad the other cards (Develop, Margrave, Fool’s Gold) that people were predicting for removal didn’t get cut. You guys had me scared, although I don’t get Fool’s Gold very often. IGG is fun, but I won’t miss it too much—been there, done that. I always thought Nomad Camp could just be $3, although I guess that can give some swingy/imbalanced openings. Nomads feels very solid at its price point though. Someone was saying Witch’s Hut looks worse than Embassy? You nuts, mayn. Embassy was fine, but WH looks far more desirable to me. The main thing I like, at first sight, is they’re both soft-terminal (meaning cards that can deal with “over-terminaling”), but with WH you are much happier with collisions.

49

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3

« on: June 30, 2022, 09:18:16 am »

How does Trail interact with Militia variants ("discards down to 3 cards in hand")? Do you end up with 3 cards in hand or 4, if you discard a Trail to someone else's Militia?

You pick and discard all at once, then react one by one. So you would have 4 in hand.

Where is this ruling from? The last ruling I have read about this, and I'm pretty sure the last one from Donald in this forum, is that you discard one at a time for Militia (the way it had been from the start).

Aren’t you one of the people that (constantly) fact-checks the FAQs, including “other rules clarifications”? See Village Green. Related: Have you been playing that when you draw 1 with VG’s reaction in response to a Militia-effect, that you immediately discard again? That scenario is the same as the question I was answering.

But back to the discard all-at-once question: The quote you linked doesn’t seem definitive at all. @MrSir712 makes a great point in that thread (emphasis added)-

But my original point was that following basic logic: out of any group of cards that is discarded, the one which appears on the top of the discard pile must be visible. Now if the cards are discarded individually there are no groups (as the only card in each "group" is the one being individually discarded) and as such each player in any physical game has the right to demand the names of each card discarded individually, and that is absurd.

50

Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: Codenames XIII

« on: June 30, 2022, 08:41:42 am »

Really? Well, let’s do it then. I wonder if @pasta has just “washed his hands” of this whole thing hahaha.

IGLOO > FORCE > HIDE > SNAKE