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126

Game Reports / Re: Poor end game skillz

« on: June 21, 2011, 11:52:09 am »

PPR time!

Buy the first (i.e., third-to-last) Province, for sure.  Now you have 21VP, $8, and multiple buys, and your opponent has 24VP.  You can take the lead instead of buying the second-to-last Province (Duchy/Estate to take you to 25VP), and you should do it.  If you only had one buy, then you might as well go for the Province because you can only tie instead of taking the lead by avoiding the penultimate Province.


Axe Knight's analysis is slightly incorrect, in that it is a little too cautious.  You should go for the Province when you can only tie with your lesser buy, because if you buy a Duchy instead you are only painting yourself into a corner, as your best chance of winning is hoping for back-to-back Provinces rather than a total collapse by your opponent's deck.

Perhaps that's something I could work on then.  I guess I've just lost too many times when I'm behind, buy the penultimate Province, and then lose when they take the last one, and get somewhat conservative.  I do factor in how much I'm behind, and how much my opponent has actually hit $8.

127

Game Reports / Re: Poor end game skillz

« on: June 21, 2011, 11:24:47 am »

Yes.  If they can win simply by buying the last Province on their next turn, don't do it.  You're better off putting the pressure on them to decide whether they want to take the penultimate Province rather than putting yourself in a dicey situation.  If they can't take that last Province, no problem, just take it the next turn, or keep gaining points until you're caught up, and hope they can't.  I've even won games buying two-three Duchies per turn when I'm behind towards the end, rather than making a rush for the Provinces.  This is why keeping track of points is a must.

128

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Do you have non-competitive friends?

« on: June 20, 2011, 11:38:51 pm »

With newer players who don't know the game, it's probably a good idea to avoid the really nasty attacks, and any action that's too complicated.  I'll usually start a new player with the basic set only; after a couple games with the base cards, I might pull out another box.  In these situations, it's more important to me that everyone has fun and less important that I win.  I only really care about winning on isotropic, because of the ranking system.

I'll even take this a step further by playing with less kingdom cards.  I usually leave out the Village the first game too.  Becoming proficient in the mechanics is not difficult, and I find that it helps that they understand at least that before moving onto any kind of intricate strategy.

129

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: June 20, 2011, 06:32:43 pm »

Lost Witch $2

+2 Cards
You gain a curse.

Very Confused Sea Hag $2

Place the top card of the Trash Pile back in the box.  Place a curse on top of the trash pile. 

Torturer Who Didn't Quite Make the Cut $3

+3 Cards.

Each other player may choose one:  Gain a curse, or not. 

130

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: June 20, 2011, 05:29:34 pm »

"Broken"
$1 - Action

+1 Action
Trash your hand, your discard pile, your draw pile, and all cards in your play area. Gain a Masquerade, a Goons, and two King's Courts (even if not available in the supply) and put them in your hand.

 

131

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: June 20, 2011, 03:59:42 pm »

Well, I don't know if it's exactly good that you win a Tournament and get a Princess on top of your, ahem...deck (running joke at my game night), or a Mine can come along and trash a Harem for money, but, that's another story. 

Neighborhood Pub $4

After another player's turn, you may trash this card from your hand.  If you do, they take one shot per Village they played. 

Grand Heist $0* (Prize)

When you play this card, you may trash all treasure in the supply except for Copper.

Kingdom Visitors' Center Throne Room $5

When you play this card, each other player must reveal a Janitor from their hand.  If they don't, they gain a Health Code violation token.  This is -2VP/token at end of game. 

Gold Pressed Latinum - $21

Treasure worth $11.

And, this was an actual card I had in an expansion I did awhile back; it was not well loved and only was interesting in multiplayer games...

Chain Lightning - $6

When you play this card, trash a card from your hand.  Each successive player to the left (except you) trashes a card from their hand worth at least $1 more than the card that the previous person trashed, or reveals a hand with no such cards.  If any player reveals a hand this way, the action is resolved.

132

Feedback / Re: The Bible of Donald X.

« on: June 20, 2011, 03:12:02 pm »

I understand why the forum is read only, but shouldn't the man himself be able to comment and add more? 

133

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Help: Ideas for a four player game

« on: June 20, 2011, 12:24:21 am »

Or, for a real crazy and probably hideously unbalanced game, just take one of each card, shuffle them up and divide them into 10 piles, and just use that as your Supply. You'll probably want to put all the cards that cost a Potion in their own pile, or else just not use them at all.

That's...delicious...I must try that some time.  With people who don't abhor Black Market of course...

134

Game Reports / Re: In which I forget about a shattering combo...

« on: June 20, 2011, 12:18:01 am »

I.  feel.  your.  pain.  Probably not as bad as yours, but this was a Level 0 player (at the time), who won after Possessing me on the last turn (albeit without King's Court and Tactician), and made a huge comeback with 8 curses, 17 coppers, and an opponent who !Possession for quite a while after that.  I was so sure I was going to win after trashing my Ambassador and being ahead (even after making a very questionable move earlier), but some days the bear gets you.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110605-085129-d90efb2b.html#Axe%20Knight-show-poss-turn-23-1

135

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Awesome Mechanics; Meh Flavor

« on: June 20, 2011, 12:07:07 am »

The person who has to answer some of your questions is Donald X, but I've considered the exact same thing---how does the theme fit in with the mechanics?  I posed this to my game group, and we went around and come up with some interesting differences in opinion.  Some people thought that having only five cards in your hand was an interesting way of simulating that you always couldn't handle everything in your kingdom at the same time.    Surely, the Baron must go out for lunch some time (gets discarded), your money is going to be tied up elsewhere when you need it, trashing something means that it simply doesn't exist anymore in your kingdom, while discarding something means you're turning your attention elsewhere.  And the Chancellor must be seriously good at politics if he can shuffle all the components of your kingdom around.  Drawing a hand of all Estates?  Well, you bought too many Estates you planned to be on holiday in, so you obviously can't be tending to your kingdom. 

It's a fun exercise, but not everything can logically tie together.  If a card that allows you to draw more cards means that it allows you to do more with your kingdom at once...an Envoy I see, but why a Torturer and Smithy of all things?  Is the Torturer getting you juicy information that there's a Harem for hire?  And what, thematically is the difference between putting a card on top of your deck or in your discard pile?  Is the Sea Hag starved for attention and needs you to be reminded that you got cursed right away, whereas the Witch doesn't care when you see it?  We won't even speculate about the Torturer.

At the end of the day though, you said it best, the mechanics are awesome...so why worry?  Donald X could just have well have designed a game with colors and numbers and shapes instead of thematic elements and the mechanics would still be the same.  It may also spare me the, "Oh!  So is that like Dungeons and Dragons?" I get all the time, but, then it wouldn't be the Dominion we all know and love. 

136

Game Reports / Re: The Apothecary/Warehouse combo

« on: June 19, 2011, 09:38:10 pm »

The apothecary can be a very strong card. It is underestimated sometimes even by the top players on isotropic. The main problem is that it delivers big hands early and then peters out, giving 4 extra coppers to buy an alchemist on turn 6, and then giving 1 copper and a potion on turn 14 when you want to buy a province.

Overall, its usefulness does decline, but it still can deliver big hands by helping you with draws, and cards that use knowledge of what's coming next. 

137

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make up your own card?

« on: June 19, 2011, 09:27:51 pm »

Of course, not.  It certainly needs work.  It goes along with my theme of "making Silver more interesting."  If I get enough ideas, I may make a Silver expansion. 

138

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Help: Ideas for a four player game

« on: June 19, 2011, 09:07:57 pm »

My game group does one of the following:

1)Completely random, either by drawing cards or phone app.  My preferred method.
2)Hold a "draft", by dealing off the first so many cards from the deck, and choosing from those.  A lot of people like this, but I don't like it when people get to choose favorites.  I once tried this with beginners who chose every Village there was...
3)Deal out 10 cards, one at a time.  Each player gets to overrule one (or sometimes two)..  Once they overrule it, it is replaced by another one, which can be overruled by anyone else.  Once you use up your overrules, there's no more. 

139

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make up your own card?

« on: June 19, 2011, 08:53:24 pm »

Silver Village $5
Action - Duration

+2 Actions
+1 Card

At the start of your next turn, you may choose one:

-Trash a Silver.  If you do, +$2
-Gain a Silver, putting it into your hand.

Have not tested this one at all.

140

Feedback / Re: How to update the card rankings?

« on: June 19, 2011, 08:28:53 pm »

You could also try to add some rankings, like, Cards Most Likely To Make You Quit Playing Dominion, or Best Combos...

141

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Which is the card you hate the most?

« on: June 19, 2011, 01:27:15 am »

Treasure Map for me. The rest of the cards can be frustrating, but I find the swinginess of Treasure Map to be even more frustrating. Tournament can be the same way.

And if I wasn't playing on Isotropic, I would totally hate Fairgrounds, Vineyard, and all those hard-to-count Victory cards.

If anyone has a good way to play with philsopher's stone in a RL game let me know.  I've told my friends, "It's not a bad card, but I don't want to play with it because of how much it would slow down a real-time game.

Ditto. My sister really likes it, but I just get bugged by all the counting. Which is hypocritical of me because I love taking long turns, but more by doing stuff, y'know. Plus, I dislike the luck-based "decision" of whether or not to play any card-drawers, given that it reduces the Stone's value.

Of course, the card-counting is just the inverse of the problem with cards like Hamlet, which is their taking too long in computer play. Maybe the ideal Dominion program would actually be less "question-asking" and more like playing with real cards, just giving you some relevant numbers throughout (like the current size of your deck) and telling you when you can't do what you just clicked.

Philosopher's Stone never particularly bothered me; perhaps I just count quickly.  However, we did once try something when Alchemy first came out.  We got a cardboard box, and made marks on it to line up where the cutoff was.  Keeping the discard pile face up and the deck face down preserved the split.  It sounded like an intriguing alternative when we first mentioned it, but was just way too clumsy in the end.  Constructing it was far more fun than using it.  I personally think Saboteur slows down the game more than PS.

142

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?

« on: June 19, 2011, 01:12:47 am »

Keep in mind, not everyone counts points, so they may not be aware that they could win.  I like to think that's the case when someone does that to me, rather than "running up" the score; there's so many games on isotropic, it probably doesn't do much if someone crushes me by 50 or squeaks by on a tiebreaker.  Up until I started playing isotropic, I was still stuck in "Must have as many Provinces as possible" mode.  Me personally, I'm scared to death of losing if I don't win as soon as I possibly can. 

143

Game Reports / Re: How to win while skipping gold and chapel

« on: June 19, 2011, 01:06:52 am »

Well done.  I believe what contributed to your opponents' demise was that they failed to use the Chapel well.  For example, on turn 5, I don't understand why someone would trash an Estate and a Copper to save two Copper to buy a Haven of all things, with a Silver and a Lab in their deck. 

144

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?

« on: June 18, 2011, 11:26:33 pm »

Actually, that's an interesting question for Donald X: Did he ever try Minion without the Attack aspect? Just as '+1 Action. Choose one: +$2; or discard your hand and +4 Cards.'

Per his secret history of Intrigue,

"Minion: The original version of this was a "choose one" card with three messy abilities. It was too messy and also too narrow, and so left. Later on I was looking for an attack to replace another attack that hadn't worked out, and thought of this. Originally the "discard, draw 4" ability only worked on yourself, but it seemed like it would make a cute attack if it hit everybody. The problem was that it was still too narrow - you would not always have a combo that made that exciting enough. The solution, proposed by Chris West, was to have the card be a combo with itself. You can play a couple copies for +$2, and then play one to get a fresh hand. For simplicity there is no 3rd ability.

During development I had some games where it was clear that this card was too annoying. The "discard, draw 4" ability had no "5 or more cards" clause. So you would sometimes draw your whole deck... and also make everyone else draw their whole deck. So you'd make everyone else shuffle on each of your turns. As an attack it gets no worse if it just hits everyone else once, and it's way less annoying. We tested both and went with the less annoying version."

145

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Max Points From Green Cards

« on: June 18, 2011, 10:42:18 pm »

I'd love to see an Isotropic records page, like the highest number of victory points actually realized, and the most money in a turn, most buys, etc. 

146

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Game Selection

« on: June 18, 2011, 10:39:19 pm »

In principle, I agree that you should just have fun and not worry about what the TrueSkill(TM) says.  Take them as they come and see what happens.  However, lately, I notice I've been stuck between Levels 20-22, so I've been intentionally trying to play higher level people.  Some don't take it so well that you decline their game, so I wish there was a parameter like, "Only players between levels X and X." 

147

Variants and Fan Cards / Post an interesting set of 10

« on: June 18, 2011, 06:23:21 pm »

I'm always looking to try out new sets of 10 that aren't completely random.  This is one my group and I did recently, just for fun, of course:

Coppersmith
King's Court
Goons
Council Room
Counting House
Chancellor
Worker's Village
Bridge
Bank
Cellar

I should note that even with this array of cards, it was still sometimes better not to rely on copper.  What are some of your favorite/interesting/fun sets?

148

Game Reports / Re: Better than I imagined.

« on: June 18, 2011, 03:21:48 am »

I love to Bishop the basic victory cards, and usually have no problem doing so.  With Estate, you're losing nothing, with Duchy, you're losing nothing, with Province you're losing 1, but getting it out the way usually makes up for it. 

I also like:

  faldska plays a Jester.
   ... getting +$2.
   ... Stoc has no cards to draw.

  

149

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Does Horse Traders too effectively counter Minion?

« on: June 17, 2011, 04:11:00 pm »

I would say it counters Minion quite well.  But also:

Do Moat and Lighthouse too effectively counter all attacks as to make them useless as attacks?
Does Watchtower too effectively counter Mountebank?

etc...

Sure, you get to draw an extra card with the Horse Traders, but that means in a multiplayer game, it can't "react" again for the remainder of the round.  So if I'm player A, and B plays a Minion, I discard my Horse Traders, but it doesn't do much when C plays his...

150

Council Room Feedback / Re: Win Type

« on: June 17, 2011, 02:52:58 pm »

Along the same lines, how about a way to rank your opponents by record/level?  I'd love to see who I've beaten, and who I've lost to.