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976
Game Reports / Re: Interesting Warehouse Board
« on: June 24, 2011, 01:34:14 pm »
Wow, uh.  What a swingy and lucktastic board.  I tend to ignore Treasure Maps even when enablers are around, so the 4 would definitely be a potion to grab Familiars.

Familiar and Stash are probably the two cards that go best with Chancellor, so I'd be seriously tempted to embrace the chaos and go that route.  Seriously, swap out Warehouse for something mediocre (because that's also a reasonable option here) and you basically have the ideal Chancellor board.

977
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards we love! (and why)
« on: June 24, 2011, 12:42:54 pm »
Hey, we have a thread about which cards people hate, so it's only fair :)

I'm going to use this little format to classify the different kinds of awesome that a Dominion card can be, feel free to use it or not:

Best Design -- These cards are balanced and interesting. They interact in many and sometimes unexpected ways with other cards, and go up and down in value depending on what else is in the spread.
Most Fun -- Actually using these cards is a joy, even if maybe they're a little too good or not good enough.
Most Powerful Yet Underrated -- The cards that make me happy when I see them, because I'm probably going to win.
Important -- I see these as solving problems, filling holes, and generally making the game go, despite not being uniquely as awesome as the others.

First off, I really agree with a lot of the cards you've listed.  Watchtower is also my vote for "best-designed Dominion card"- it does so many things well- substitute it for Library in a Festival/Hamlet engine, stop Ambassadors and cursers in their tracks, use it as a cheap Royal Seal, beef up your Goons engine, etc.  And yet, as you mentioned, it's not actually the most powerful of cards.  Knowing when to get one, and how to use it, is really subtle and fun.

Tactician is also up there for me.  It's an odd card in that the right answer to "how many to buy" is quite often exactly two.

Horn of Plenty
is another one I find myself nodding in agreement with.  It doesn't have a great win rate on Isotropic overall, but I've found it to be utterly essential a lot of the time, and it seems to figure prominently in many games with higher-ranked players.  Easily the best Workshop variant we've seen so far, and possibly my vote for Dominion card which best rewards skill.

Durations and VP chips are probably my favorite mechanics in Dominion.  I love them all, except maybe the noob-trap Outpost.

There are a lot of cards in Dominion which are probably too powerful, obviously and game-changingly powerful as long as there's any support at all, but powerful in really fun ways.  You more or less have to go for these cards, but it's fun to do so anyway.  Goons (with Villages), Tournament (almost all of the time), and Scrying Pool (with money-giving actions) are these cards for me, also maybe Menagerie (with any trashing).

There are other cards which are kinda underpowered most of the time, but are really fun to use all the same, to try and create some sort of alternative engine.  I don't do a very good job winning with Trade Route, but there's an excellent tension within the card that I like trying to manage.  Coppersmith is normally a garbage card, but I love the occasional times it's actually useful (for example, as a combo with Apothecary or as a Bridge/NV kicker).  Apothecary is itself great as an alternative to trashing Coppers, and unlike the 'smith is actually a good card much of the time.  And, of course, Gardens.  I go for Gardens decks way more than I ought.

Cards which do weird things with costs, either buying or trashing!  I love these too.  Salvager, Apprentice, Peddler, Grand Market.  All very powerful, too.


But the card I am happiest to see in a random Dominion setup, the card I have the highest opinion of relative to the rest of Isotropic, probably my favorite Dominion card in fact... is Festival.  Plain old base-set Festival.  Plus-two actions, plus-two coin, plus-one buy.  It's my highest "effect with", and third-highest "win rate given available", behind Young Witch and Scrying Pool.  It's in my top ten for "win rate with" despite being a card that most people lose with.  And unlike Bureaucrat (which I actually win with on the very, very rare occasions I buy it- mostly Gardens and Duke games), I buy it a lot.  Like in over 90 percent of games a lot.  Festival is my secret weapon.

Why?  More than any other basic card, Festival provides an interesting tradeoff- you get money, and actions, and buy, but you lose a card.  I've found that the trick to using Festival effectively is to a) find ways to mitigate the loss of card, and there are many of them, not just Library; and b) actually take advantage of the buy.  And Festival makes it easy to do that, being the only +Buy card which also gives action and money.  Festival is an engine builder, Festival is a card that loves double-Province turns, I love double-Province turns, and man I love Festival.

978
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Wishing Well/Scout Combo
« on: June 23, 2011, 11:26:09 pm »
Theoretically Apothecary works just as well as Scout here.

No.  It works much, much better.  I mean, sure, maybe the Apothecary scoops up three or four coppers and you can't set up a wish for your Well, but then you're up three cards anyway!

979
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Wishing Well/Scout Combo
« on: June 23, 2011, 09:31:50 pm »
I don't believe any card is "crappy". Some just have limited uses.
Pearl Diver (Ironically the card under your name as I type this) would like to have a word with you.

I played a game recently where King's Courted Pearl Divers were the only source of +Actions.

They're also sometimes worth picking up as cheap fodder to power Peddlers, Conspirators, and Scrying Pools.

Thief, on the other hand, now that's a crappy card.  Maybe I'd buy one in a set consisting of nothing but Chapel, Thief, and Treasure Kingdom cards.  That's about it.

980
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make up your own card?
« on: June 23, 2011, 08:27:40 pm »
How about a duration card?

Name: Inflation
Cost: $5
Type: Action-Duration

Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1

While this is in play, all cards (including cards in players’ hands) cost $1 more per Action card in play (counting this).

----
Since I have never played with a duration card that has such an impact on other players, I'm not really sure how to balance the cost of the card with the effect.  I wanted it to be at least $5 since I don't want someone to be able to open with this assuming a 4/3 split (83.3% chance).  I was thinking of pricing it at $6, but if I did I would want to increase the +coin amount, at least on the turn it is played.

Thoughts?
Not good. Most of the time it's going to be horrible, since it hits you for two turns but only hits them for one. And when it is good (when you can mass bridge or forge), it's either unnecessary or insanely broken.

I was actually thinking about Duration attacks (the lack of one seems like a pretty big hole in Dominion's design space), and I came up with something remarkably similar, basically a Bridge with teeth, but hopefully without (as much of) the problem WanderingWinder pointed out.


TARIFFS (Or maybe "Customs House", or "Mercantilism", you get the idea)
Action-Attack-Duration
$5?  $6?  I'm not sure.

Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1, +1 Buy
While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less for you and $1 more for everyone else, to a minimum of $0 and a maximum of $11.

Probably need to fiddle with the values- I was thinking maybe cost it $5 and don't give the $1 each turn.

981
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: June 23, 2011, 05:18:26 pm »
I'll be completely blunt and to the point. i believe this community is kinder, simply because the average age of the player-base is higher.

This isn't a get-off-my-lawn statement coming from an old man. I've known tons of very polite, well-behaved young teenagers... but I think the internet age (faceless, anonymous social interactions) are breeding inpolite behaviour in the younger generation.

I grew up in an age where if you were in a social atmosphere with someone and called them a retard, you got your bell-rung. These days, with anonymous internet, and non face to face social interactions, there's no physical pain as a consequence of being a jerk to someone.

I've noticed a VERY strong correlation between age and civility in every game I've played, and MTG, LOL and WoW are probably all the worst communities. It's my opinion (and I'm very possibly completely out to lunch) that age has a huge factor to this.

Agree 100% that the higher age of the boardgame community (and, obviously by extension, Dominion players) is the main factor here.  And this is coming from someone who's probably quite a bit younger than you.

I do think, though, that its more an age than a generation thing- that most folks can be kinda rude and inconsiderate when they're young, but then just mellow and mature as they grow older.  I've seen increased politeness among my peers as they've gone from high school to college and post-college, and I know for a fact I've improved during that time as well (for reference, I'm in my mid-20s). 

982
Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Fortune Teller/Jester
« on: June 22, 2011, 01:21:10 pm »
Is fortune teller/jester another scout/wishing well?  In theory it sounds good but in practice it's a lot of work for something that a single card does just as well.

Consider fortune teller/jester vs mountebank.  FT -> Jester is a lot harder to pull off, and guarantees your opponent gets a curse.  An unblocked mountebank gives your opponent a copper and a curse, which is a much stronger attack.

Um, I'm not sure what your point is?  Of course Mountebank is far stronger (as is Witch, Familiar, Hag, and maybe YW depending on the Bane).  I explicitly said this is only worth going for if there aren't other cursers, and oftentimes there aren't.

What makes Scout/WW silly is that you're spending two cards to get two cards, and maybe clear out some green from your next hand.  Even so, there are some corner cases where I'd consider such a combo- if it's the best way to activate a Conspirator chain, for instance.

983
Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Fortune Teller/Jester
« on: June 22, 2011, 12:38:38 pm »
I don't think this is a combo worthwhile to build your deck around, but I often end up in a deck with several Jesters in it, and at that point Fortune Teller is a nice addition to help make sure it hits better things.

Oh, of course.  The deck I built in the example was really built on Scrying Pool and Fishing Village, and these cards were kickers, similar to how Militia is a good kicker to a Council Room draw engine.

984
Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Fortune Teller/Jester
« on: June 22, 2011, 12:30:18 pm »
Did i miss something or is the combo the curse-effect for the opponent?

Yeah.  Well, to be more specific that it guarantees the Jester gives out a curse, rather than (as the example showed) hit that Fishing Village which was bought out five turns ago.

985
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: June 22, 2011, 12:20:50 pm »
Imperial Dominion Buster

$9
Action-Attack

Look through your opponent's deck and trash a card with cost no greater than $3 times the number of Imperial Dominion Busters in your deck.  If you trash a card, gain two Prestige tokens*.  When you buy Imperial Dominion Buster, gain a Prestige token.

*If you have the most Prestige tokens at the beginning of your turn, take a VP token and draw a card.   At the end of the game, each Prestige token is worth 1 VP.

986
Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Fortune Teller/Jester
« on: June 21, 2011, 12:04:57 pm »
I think you're really underrating Fortune teller. Its attack is pretty good, and okay, it's a terminal silver, but it's only $3. Not the best card out there, but not really a bad one either. Much better than Chancellor. According to my popular buys page, I buy it 66% of the time and win 66% of the time I do.
I also think our perception of Jester is pretty coloured by our tendency to play 2-player games. It scales up a lot differently with more players, sorta like thief and pirate ship, and it's obviously better the more players there are, as there's more good stuff you can get.
Finally, this combo seems really contrived to be able to pull off, as you need a village with them to be able to play both, and 3-card combos are pretty difficult to get in hand if you aren't drawing your whole deck. If you are drawing your whole deck, there are a ton of things that will win for you.

My popular buys shows a different story: Jester is actually the card I have the single *worst* "win rate with".  Fortune Teller is also in my bottom 10, and I do better than usual when I avoid it (unlike Jester, whose mere presence apparently drags my game down whether I go for it or not).  So I hadn't really figured out how to make them work yet, which is why this game was so notable for me.  Totally agree with how Jester scales well with more players, however.

Also, this combo's only really "contrived" in the not-very-meaningful sense that any combo which relies on two terminal actions is contrived.  I mean, sure, it's not going to be usable all or even most of the time- it requires both the presence of Villages and the absence of better cursing options to be effective- but very few combos are always applicable.  As I said, this board was really an ideal situation for the combo for many reasons.

987
Dominion Articles / Combo: Fortune Teller/Jester
« on: June 21, 2011, 10:21:13 am »
Even the "bad" cards in Cornucopia have their moments in the sun.  Fortune Teller is probably the worst card in Cornucopia, a slightly-improved Bureaucrat variant which, in the midgame of any set with trashing, is often going to be just like playing Chancellor and giving your opponent the benefit (or, worse, letting him/her topdeck a Nobles).  Jester isn't nearly as bad, but it pales in comparison with all the other non-Saboteur $5 attacks- spending $5 for a terminal Silver that spends a lot of its time just giving your opponents a Copper is often not worth it.  However!  When combined with +Actions, together they become a nasty late-game source of Curses.  As soon as your opponent starts laying into the Provinces, play Fortune Teller to put one on top of their deck, then use Jester to hand them a Curse. 

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110617-124713-f29fa5fd.html

This sample game is both a good example of Fortune Teller/Jester (in fact it's what inspired me to write this post), as well as a cautionary tale of why unsupported Fortune Teller can be so weak- see turn 7 for an example of the Fortune Teller playing the role of reverse-Chancellor (granted, I was lucky to have my one remaining Estate in hand).  Remake, Scrying Pools, and Fishing Villages all feature in both our decks as well, and bolster the combo- the presence of the strong but potion-costing Pools, and lack of +Buy, make Jester a better investment than usual even without Fortune Teller.  Here, my opponent gets the first Province, but is subsequently slowed down by Curses, while his Jesters harmlessly discard Fishing Villages after the stack is emptied.

988
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« on: June 20, 2011, 12:59:24 pm »
Personally, I much prefer to play until the end of a game, even when I know for sure I've lost.  Sometimes if I've been Torturer-pinned to utter oblivion and it's really no fun at all, then I'll resign (and if I resign I'll acknowledge my opponent with a "gg"), but normally I'll let my opponent play it out until the end, and I really don't mind at all if they spend a little extra time to show off what, for example, their multi-Goons engine can do.  Mega-turns are fun, it's more satisfying to play things to completion, and I don't want to deprive any opponents that feel the same.

989
Game Reports / Re: The Apothecary/Warehouse combo
« on: June 20, 2011, 10:32:52 am »
I like Apothecary, probably too much for my own good actually.

Apothecary/Coppersmith can get to five provinces surprisingly fast.  Open Potion/something non-terminal (Warehouse is really good here), get one Coppersmith and a few Apothecaries, and don't bother buying any money.

990
Thanks for this write up! I'm surprised by a couple things:

Possession is weak, really? *checks Councilroom* Well, who knows what this really means, but this graph seems to say it's better than all the 7s except KC, though it does cost 'more'. I don't really put too much stock in that kind of Councilroom data, but it has always felt strong to me, though insanely swingy. My personal win rate with it is just barely above 1, and I pretty much usually go for it when it's there, so it can't be *that* bad...

...

2: I think it is the single card that I will buy in the greatest % of spreads it shows up it. There are other cards like Chapel or Minion that are *usually* must-buys, but the great thing about Dominion is that even such well-known powerhouses are often not the right way to go due to the other cards in the spread. Maybe I'm wrong and a bad player, but I'm pretty sure these situations are *far* rarer with Tournament.

...

Oh, and lastly -- how is Torturer not on this list? The card is fine if there are no +2 actions around, but as soon as there are I think it's the most degenerate, stifling, and unfun card around.

I, for one, actually agree with Donald that Possession is kind of a weak card.  I have a 0.92 win rate with Possession (third lowest among all cards), and a 1.61 win rate without (third-highest among all cards).  So for me at least, it's a lot easier to defend against it than to go for it myself.  Granted this is really atypical.

...

I used to believe that Tournament was pretty much always a must-buy, like you.  Then (as I've mentioned on BGG), I played this game: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110427-123048-fe305c80.html

In which I get all five Prizes, and am still absolutely *obliterated* by a Goons engine.  Now I know better.  Goons is IMO a much better example of an overpowered card that is really super-dominant in most setups (it's even worth buying one or two when there aren't +Actions around).  I think it's easily the third-strongest card in the game behind Chapel and KC.  But I actually still like Goons, because there's a lot of subtlety in how to set up the engine, and the attack is frankly not nearly as devastating as the VPs, meaning the first person to hit doesn't necessarily snowball to victory.

...

Unlike Torturer.  Agree 100% about how that's the most unfun card there is.

991
The only time I hate Possession is when Ambassador and/or Masquerade are on the board.  Normally I love seeing Possession, because I'm quite possibly better at defending against Possession than any other skill in Dominion.  Seriously, I have a better win rate when I don't buy Possession than when I *do* gain a Trusty Steed.

As for Saboteur, Smugglers, and Treasure Map?  They're swingy, but most of the time they're just too weak for me to care.

The card I hate above all else is Torturer.  It's a powerful card that leads to really unfun games if your opponent gets his/her chain off first, and I'm actually very bad at constructing Torturer chains, so that happens a lot.

992
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make up your own card?
« on: June 17, 2011, 04:04:18 am »
I have never really thought about asking for feedback on cards I have made up since... well, I made them up.  Here are my two favorite cards I play with that I've tried hard to balance.

A Victory card: Ancient Tomb -- Cost: $4

Worth 1 Victory Point per Curse you have.

This basically turns Curses into something you wouldn't mind having, to something you would actually buy.  It also really changes how powerful some attack cards like Witch are.  It seems to work when I play with my friends, but I haven't had the opportunity to try it with better players.

My second card:

An Action - Attack card: Spite -- Cost: $4

+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  If you do, each other player discards one card.

It's very slow as far as trashing goes, but I wanted to combine trashing and attacking.  It started out without the +1 Action, but it seemed too weak like that and no one really wanted it.  The fact you have to trash a card to trigger that attack prevents the +1 Action from allowing you to chain more than two (baring certain +Card combos).

I would love feedback on either card.

The one suggestion I'd make is that Spite should only hit players with a certain number of cards in their hand- specifically, they can't go below 3 cards.  This would put it in line with Militia, Ghost Ship, etc. and prevent degenerate situations in multiplayer.

993
Game Reports / Re: Bureaucrat Success!
« on: June 17, 2011, 01:33:46 am »
I agree that Bureaucrat is probably a better card than Explorer- I sometimes buy it in Gardens games, if nothing else.  Of course, Explorer is one of the two cards (along with Thief) that I basically never buy at all, so that's not exactly high praise. 

I was beaten once by someone who used Explorer to power a Duke rush, but I have never, ever managed to use it effectively myself.  And Thief is as far as I'm concerned the worst card in the game by a wide margin.  It's not even worth buying in 4p.

994
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:46:05 pm »
Bureaucracy

$8

Victory

Worth 2VP for every 3 Silver in your deck

;)


Ha.  I was thinking something more along the lines of:

Silversmith
$5
Action

+1 Action, +1 Buy, Silver produces an additional $1 this turn. (Maybe just "Silver produces $3 this turn" if it ends up being too good)

Would also give Explorer a much-needed boost.

995
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:13:37 pm »
I'd like to see more cards that involve choices and more dual-type cards, a la Intrigue. Perhaps a card which is a Curse and something else?

I know it probably won't happen, but a couple more Durations and VP-chip-givers would be nice.  (I suspect more VP chips are more likely.)

I'd like to see some trashers and curse-givers which are actually kind of mediocre and only make sense as situational buys.

I'd like to see an attack which lets you look at other players' hands and discard a card from it.  With restrictions, of course (at a minimum it should only hit people with more than four cards in hand), and it'd have to be really expensive.

I'd like to see a card that makes buying Bureaucrat worth it.

I think that mostly covers it.

996
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tournament + Black Market
« on: June 16, 2011, 07:33:50 pm »
There's almost always some reason to go after the black market, access to 25 more cards, some of them will be useful, unless either you've set up a set intentionally where every card is really strong, works together and there's cursing, trashing, actions, draws, buys and no deck dependent green cards as well as no tactician, library or watchtower, or there's no +2 action cards and there are probably vital terminals like witch/mountebank/chapel/wharf and also few/poor +2 action cards from the bm deck.

I couldn't disagree more.  It's usually the case that there are enough parts on the board for some fully-formed strategy without BM, and in that case BM is just a distraction.  Sometimes there are good reasons to take a gamble on BM- say Goons or Torturer are out and you want to fish for Villages, or there are lots of trashers in the BM deck and you're facing a board with Mountebank or something.  And sometimes BM is itself an integral part of a strategy on the board- Tactician and Fairgrounds come to mind.  But more often than not it seems like it becomes little more than a silver you have to waste an action on, and that's just no good.  I tend to do very well when I ignore BM, and most people on Isotropic do for that matter.

997
Masquerade is already overpowered, be thankful that most people are filling their decks with actions instead of just buying Provinces turn 9 onwards (just made that statistic up, but it honestly feels like that when I'm playing Big Money Masquerade).

So yeah, 3 cards would make it worse because nobody would ever buy actions along with it.

Masquerade as it is is probably the best single action for a Big Money-esque strategy.  Better than Smithy/Envoy, which are its primary competition.  I won't always go Big Money with Masquerade, but I consider it a tremendous incentive to pursue that sort of strategy, and probably should do it even more than I already do.

998
A Masquerade which drew 3 cards and was the same in all other respects would be the best card in the game.  Better than Chapel, better than King's Court, better than Goons. Masquerade-plus, even just leading into into Big Money, would likely be absolutely dominant in every setup, maybe even against an optimized Gardens rush.

It would still be very powerful at $5.

999
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Pirate Ship in 3+ player games.
« on: June 16, 2011, 03:51:10 pm »
I've slowly become more and more convinced that the various card powers in Dominion are actually best balanced for a 3-player game, and Pirate Ship is one of the main reasons- it's useless in 2p, occasionally degenerate in 4p, but with 3 it's usable but not overpowered.  Minion is another card with similar effects, in the opposite direction of course.

1000
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Is the point counter cheating?
« on: June 15, 2011, 08:14:34 pm »
I don't use the counter, but I also don't mind playing with people who do.  It's usually not that hard to keep track of points unless you have things like Gardens or Fairgrounds or lots of VP chips, and if my opponent(s) know and I don't, then I just look at it as an extra little challenge.

I do think that it is poor form to have a counter which is both a) unannounced, and b) not disable-able, because that's inconsiderate to the people who feel strongly about not playing with point counters.  But that's really just a matter of general principle, and it doesn't bother me as such.

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